***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 4 *****
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Continuing discussion
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 21 Jun 17 at 10:21
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Tim Farron's quit.
Ref BBC - in a statement, he said he was "torn between living as a faithful Christian and serving as a political leader".
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Has resigned as leader of the Lib Dems stating religious beliefs.
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Too bland and characterless to be a party leader. Ashdown was the best the LD's ever had.
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>> Too bland and characterless to be a party leader. Ashdown was the best the LD's
>> ever had.
>>
Charles Kennedy? I employed him as an after dinner speaker in the mid 90's, he was a drinker then, good orator ...
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"Ashdown was the best the LD's ever had."
..... and, after serving in the SBS, you could hardly call him a typical wet LimpDump.
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>> "Ashdown was the best the LD's ever had."
>>
>> ..... and, after serving in the SBS, you could hardly call him a typical wet
>> LimpDump.
>>
Didn't he have trouble with his trousers?
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"Didn't he have trouble with his trousers?"
Yes, but I understand that it was with a woman, so that's OK. ;-)
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>> Ashdown was the best the LD's ever had.
David Steel was pretty good too. And it's a pity Nick Clegg lost his seat 'cos he actually has the right stuff to lead a cross party coalition that could navigate us between Brexit and Remain*.
*Avoiding Scylla/Charybdis analogies.....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 14 Jun 17 at 21:45
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>> And it's a pity Nick Clegg lost his seat
>> 'cos he actually has the right stuff to lead a cross party coalition that could
>> navigate us between Brexit and Remain*.
>>
>>
I thought Clegg was pretty good. He got unfairly vilified over the tuition fee nonsense which was a Lib Dem election pre election promise - but the LD's did not form a government, they were (The very junior) partners in a coalition and had little real say in policy.
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He never seemed quite cut out for the role of leader but seemed a decent and honourable man.
Who next - Vince Cable?
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Much too old. Not appealing to the younger voters.
They're a bit stuck, aren't they?
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>> They're a bit stuck, aren't they?
Colleague says Norman Lamb but professional concerns mean she's engaged with his work on Mental Health and may over estimate his capacity.
He's only 6 years older than Corbyn.
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Jo Swinson is currently favourite to replace Tim Farron
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Just watched a pre-election Unspun with Matt Forde, Chris Huhne was on it. They discussed the poor performance and in humour Matt asked Chris if he would be leader. he said he's too old at 63. If that was a serious comment, and I think it was, it would certainly rule out Lamb or Cable.
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Ed Davey maybe though they could have a leader who is not an MP I guess ...
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Jo Swinson is in her late 30s. She would appeal to the younger voters. I think there may be a swing away from older leaders. Look at Macron in France. The young are getting fed up with the older genertion like Trump and May screwing up their world
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I think it's more that they share their values. Bernie sanders was by all accounts very popular with the under 30s, could be an exception of course.
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>> I think it's more that they share their values. Bernie sanders was by all accounts
>> very popular with the under 30s, could be an exception of course.
Explains enthusiasm for Corbyn amongst young too.
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Yes you are no doubt correct. The young are disillusioned with politicians acting as if the don't exist.
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"Explains enthusiasm for Corbyn amongst young too."
And, of course, the promise of free sweeties.
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I think that perhaps is a little unfair. If you are talking of the abolition of student fees then please remember that our generation never paid any fees at all. To the young it seems as though we got what we wanted and then pulled up the drawbridge.
And of course politicians are not above pandering to the old are they? Bus passes, triple locks, heating allowances etc.
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>> I think that perhaps is a little unfair. If you are talking of the abolition
>> of student fees then please remember that our generation never paid any fees at all.
>>
But only a small proportion of our generation went to university so funding was a considerably smaller issue.
In the last 40 years the number of people attending university has grown and the number of "universities" has grown, the original centrally funded model is no longer sustainable.
I think the expansion has been a very good thing but it was not possible without some change in the charging, unless the taxpayer was to be left with a substantial bill which is what Labour were effectively proposing from the "magic money tree"
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>> To the young it seems as though we got what we wanted and then pulled
>> up the drawbridge.
>>
But no one explains to them that it was for real degrees for the the few. Now it is for "mejia studies" for the many.
>> And of course politicians are not above pandering to the old are they? Bus passes,
>> triple locks, heating allowances etc.
>>
Which is where May went wrong. Corbyn promised to keep bribing the old while also bribing the young. Tories took it for granted that everyone knows that Marxism does not work in the real world. Unfortunately today's "yoof" is not taught that history at "Uni".
I was surprised to discover a in discussions with a group of millennials that they had never heard of major historical events (from four to six decades ago, UK or international) such as the IRA hunger strikes, Iran embassy siege, Munich Olympic massacre, six day Israel war, etc. Some were not even aware of the the communist states of USSR, Yugoslavia, East Germany, etc. (a few had not heard about the Berlin Wall). Test on your own millennials if you know any, if you don't believe this.
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>>But only a small proportion of our generation went to university so funding was a considerably smaller issue. In the last 40 years the number of people attending university has grown and the number of "universities" has grown, the original centrally funded model is no longer sustainable.>>
Agreed, and Corbyn's plan was contra to Labour's redistribution of wealth doctrine as today only those who get into well paid jobs pay anything back, whereas if fees were abolished then all graduates (along with the rest of us) would pay a significant amount more in tax to cover the £11 billion annual bill.
>>
>> Which is where May went wrong. Corbyn promised to keep bribing the old while also
>> bribing the young. Tories took it for granted that everyone knows that Marxism does not
>> work in the real world. Unfortunately today's "yoof" is not taught that history at "Uni".
>>
The problem is that most educationalists are also err to the left which must reflect in their teachings. little left wing
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" was surprised to discover a in discussions with a group of millennials that they had never heard of major historical events (from four to six decades ago, UK or international) such as the IRA hunger strikes, Iran embassy siege, Munich Olympic massacre, six day Israel war, etc. Some were not even aware of the the communist states of USSR, Yugoslavia, East Germany, etc. (a few had not heard about the Berlin Wall). Test on your own millennials if you know any, if you don't believe this."
It was ever thus. I doubt if very many of us in the 1960s ciuld have given a clear account of the 1930s and the events leading up up to WW II I also doubt that many of our own generation have a clear idea of the history of the last 30 years de pite having lived through it.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 10:37
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>> I was surprised to discover a in discussions with a group of millennials that they
>> had never heard of major historical events (from four to six decades ago, UK or
>> international)
On the Marx point it's not for universities to teach as fact everyone knows that Marxism does not work in the real world. Rather students will attend lectures, read the history and come to their own conclusions.
Both my kids are history graduates and my daughter devoted a significant part of her studies to (a) Marx and (b) the fall of the USSR. Even the question 'what is Marxism' has many answers.
I think you're broadly right about millennials but as other posters point out most of these things, for all some (six day war, fall of USSR) shape our world today, they are in another way ancient history.
Was at work yesterday when news of Farrons resignation statement were published. Millenial colleague read part of it out. The way she read the words about religious conviction and role of leader reminded me of Edward VIII's abdication speech "I cannot carry out the role of King in way I would wish to do". A generally well informed and very politically aware English Grad, she had no idea what I meant.
Scylla and Charybdis would have had more meaning to her!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 11:17
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>> Scylla and Charybdis would have had more meaning to her!!
>>
No they are still just a pretentious reference :-)
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>> >> Scylla and Charybdis would have had more meaning to her!!
>> >>
>> No they are still just a pretentious reference :-)
>>
and many probably think that it warrants a visit to a special clinic :)
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>> and many probably think that it warrants a visit to a special clinic :)
Praed Street in my day. Bumped into many a pop star there. In fact we probably bumped into the same girls
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I was surprised to discover a in discussions with a group of millennials that they
>> had never heard of major historical events (from four to six decades ago, UK or
>> international) such as the IRA hunger strikes, Iran embassy siege, Munich Olympic massacre, six day
>> Israel war, etc. Some were not even aware of the the communist states of USSR,
>> Yugoslavia, East Germany, etc. (a few had not heard about the Berlin Wall). Test on
>> your own millennials if you know any, if you don't believe this.
>>
>>
The older generation tutting at the young is nothing new. Its been happening since the year dot.
I bet your generation were just as weak on history 20-30 years before they were born when they were young.
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>> I bet your generation were just as weak on history 20-30 years before they were
>> born when they were young.
I thnk that's spot on. Born 1959 I'd have struggled to say much about headlines and even major domestic events in the thirties, exception might be the General Strike but that was a part of both O and A level Economic History. I knew nothing of Irish Civil war, black and tans etc or the Gresford Colliery disaster.
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>> I thnk that's spot on. Born 1959 I'd have struggled to say much about headlines
>> and even major domestic events in the thirties, exception might be the General Strike but
>> that was a part of both O and A level Economic History. I knew nothing
>> of Irish Civil war, black and tans etc or the Gresford Colliery disaster.
School O level gave me a very broad historical timeline, and was very good at progression and how things fit together. It provided no in depth analysis, nor should it, that you have to study for yourself when it becomes relevant.
And most historical stuff has a relevance that crops up from time to time in life.
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I didn't do O level History, I think we had only got as far as the Tudors when I dropped the subject.
I picked up a lot of modern history from reading, starting with fiction.
Some people, including intelligent ones, are almost wilfully ignorant. I am ignorant quite often, but not for want of trying not to be.
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>> School O level gave me a very broad historical timeline, and was very good at
>> progression and how things fit together. It provided no in depth analysis, nor should it,
I don't know what it was like for the heathen down south but the Joint Matriculation Board offered history in several flavours.
Mine, at both O and A level, was British Economic and Social History 1700 to 1950. Obviously more focussed than Stone Age to Beatles.....
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>> I don't know what it was like for the heathen down south but the Joint
>> Matriculation Board offered history in several flavours.
Ours was JMB in Cleckheckmonsedge. I don't recall the choices. At 13 I had no interest in the history I had been learning.
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>>
>> I bet your generation were just as weak on history 20-30 years before they were
>> born when they were young.
>
I think most people are weak on all history, and in general find it boring and irrelevant.
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>> I think most people are weak on all history, and in general find it boring
>> and irrelevant.
Couldn't agree more.
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>> >> I think most people are weak on all history, and in general find it
>> boring
>> >> and irrelevant.
>>
>>
>> Couldn't agree more.
>>
It depends how it is taught. I quite enjoyed the subject, but during the last two years at school we had a Mr Holly as our history teacher. His method of "Teaching" was to spend the entire 35 minutes dictating to the class from a book while we struggled to keep up while writing it down. That killed off any interest I had at the time. Mr Holly wouldn't last five minutes today as he would be classed as completely useless and quickly shown the door.
A complete contrast to the old boy who taught us maths and made what most people regard as a boring subject into something thoroughly enjoyable to the extent that a whole form of working class yobs sat in rapt attention and made remarkable progress. A shining beacon, because looking back, at least 50% of the teachers I had varied from sub standard to incompetent.
The good old days, eh?
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 20:51
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If what is being said about people in general being disinterested in history is true ( it may well be, but I've always been fascinated by the subject ) then that would go some way towards explaining how some politicians continue to get away with hoodwinking the masses.
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>> that would go some way towards explaining how some politicians continue to get away with
>> hoodwinking the masses.
And themselves I suspect, quite often.
I suppose we are all disinterested in history unless our forebears were given lands and wealth by William the Conqueror, Henry VIII or whoever. But it wouldn't be surprising if politicians were frequently uninterested. They are always focused on the here and now, and the short term future, and things they can change.
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>> And themselves I suspect, quite often.
Well they certainly seem to continue making the same mistakes. Take Afghanistan for example.
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> ( it may well be, but I've always been fascinated by the subject )
I'm interested in it now and enjoy reading about the past but not when I was at school, i had absolutely no interest at all in it. Wasn't for years that I picked up a book about history now it's pretty much the only one i read.
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>> I bet your generation were just as weak on history 20-30 years before they were
>> born when they were young.
>>
My generation didn't have access to online resources at University, and had to rely on text books written ages ago for history. However, we had parents who told us about recent history that had yet to be written up in text books.
BTW, my discussion with the millennials came about in relation to terrorism. Almost all of them thought that airport security checks started after the 9/11 attack in New York. Also, most were unaware of the Palestine/Israel/Jordan/Syria/Lebanon history even though they supported the Palestinian cause. None had heard of pre-2000 hostage taking and hijacking events such as in Munich, London, Beirut. None had heard of Terry Waite.
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> My generation didn't have access to online resources at University, and had to rely on
>> text books written ages ago for history. However, we had parents who told us about
>> recent history that had yet to be written up in text books.
I'll take that as a yes, they were just as bad.
>> BTW, my discussion with the millennials came about in relation to terrorism. Almost all of
>> them thought that airport security checks started after the 9/11 attack in New York. Also,
>> most were unaware of the Palestine/Israel/Jordan/Syria/Lebanon history even though they supported the Palestinian cause. None
>> had heard of pre-2000 hostage taking and hijacking events such as in Munich, London, Beirut.
>> None had heard of Terry Waite.
>>
>>
As i said before, previous generations would be as weak on similar events years before they were born. What seems like a big event at the time soon drifts into obscurity when you didn't live through it.
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>>
>>
>> The older generation tutting at the young is nothing new. Its been happening since the
>> year dot.
>>
>> I bet your generation were just as weak on history 20-30 years before they were
>> born when they were young.
>>
Any teenager who has an interest in politics probably has a warped personality. They are middle aged before their time and not to be trusted.
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> Any teenager who has an interest in politics probably has a warped personality. They are
>> middle aged before their time and not to be trusted.
>>
I thought we were talking history but anyway I think agree if it's a very intent interest, they always seem a bit odd to me.
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>> Explains enthusiasm for Corbyn amongst young too.
>>
Voting by age groups (from exit poll data, analysis by yougov)
d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2017-06-13/Age-01.png
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/general-election-2017-young-people_uk_593e7ba1e4b0c5a35ca115e4
General Election 2017 Analysis Suggests Young Turnout Wasn’t What Produced Shock Result
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/12/theresa-may-just-400-votes-short-majority/
"In the eight constituencies with the tightest margin over second-placed Tories, the combined majority was 786.
This means that, had the Conservatives convinced 401 people across these eight constituencies, Theresa May would still have her majority in Parliament.
This assumes that the Conservatives swung half of the majority from the winning party of each of these seats, plus one extra vote to take the seat.
The closest seat she missed out on was Kensington, which Labour swung from the Conservatives to win by 20 votes. If the Tories had persuaded just 10 Labour voters to stick with them, and gain the support of one extra voter, they would have held one more extra seat in Parliament.
The eight closest seats that the Conservatives missed out on were all won by Labour except Perth & Perthshire North, which the SNP's Pete Wishart held with a majority of just 21."
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>> The young are getting fed up with the older genertion like Trump and May screwing
>> up their world
>>
Absolutely, look at young Jeremy Corbyn :-) Now there's a chap with his best years ahead of him.
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My take on many of "the young" as a significant part of the electorate (and I include my own up to a point) would be that they often don't have much idea about politics and aren't especially interested in "the news" generally, and politics in particular. I saw encouragement online and on some TV shows to vote but this often seemed to be from left-ish source (in particular many comedians on social media and topical comedy shows, though maybe they are the kind who attract me too).
I really like that "the young" are encouraged to vote but all parties must ensure their message gets across to them.
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>> My take on many of "the young" as a significant part of the electorate (and
>> I include my own up to a point) would be that they often don't have
>> much idea about politics and aren't especially interested in "the news" generally, and politics in
>> particular.
>>
I agree with the whole of your analysis. So I was surprised to see this by yougov
"Conservatives’ support decreases the more educated a voter is, the opposite was true for Labour and the Lib Dems."
d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2017-06-13/Education-01.png
Other (employment, gender, newspaper exposure) graphical analysis here:
yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/
The FT looked at one other criterion - health.
www.ft.com/content/dac3a3b2-4ad7-11e7-919a-1e14ce4af89b?mhq5j=e1 (may not open directly but should do so via Google search for "Election 2017: how the UK voted in 7 charts - Financial Times"):
"Preliminary results suggest that health is playing a role in the realignment in British politics, too. The Conservatives have fared better relative to Labour in constituencies where a high share of people report being in poor health.
This may initially seem counter-intuitive — Labour is after all the party of the National Health Service — but the key to understanding the role of health is to view it not as a specific and immediate concern for individuals but instead as a proxy for overall wellbeing and social status.
The share of a constituency’s population in poor health is strongly associated with the share of its population in the lowest social class (as measured by the NRS DE social grade, which includes people in semi- and low-skilled jobs or unemployment), so we may be seeing here a sign of the much-touted Tory encroachment into the working-class demographic that has traditionally voted overwhelmingly for Labour."
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>>Illness or disorder, yes.
>>But disease?
Angels, head, pin. Question is how does it affect people. Our resident medic has confirmed:
Uncontrolled type 2 diabetes could cause big fluctuations in sugar levels, also some tablets can lead to hypos. Either can cause confusion and talking gibberish.
That stands whether or not you buy his secondary diagnosis. And for those of you who find Jack Monroe strong meat here's another account of the misogyny and racism Ms Abbott has faced throughout her career.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/abuse-of-diane-abbott-driven-by-racism-and-misogyny-says-umunna
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Of course it is a disease.
Broadly an illness that isn't caused by a physical injury is a disease. In what way would it be different from heart disease or cancer, for example?
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I wonder how long it takes to get back in control and when she'll be back in the driving seat?
My dad was diabetic though I have no idea which type (I think 1 as he injected insulin at least daily). He sometimes went hypo, which recovered very quickly with a Mars bar or similar.
I think he was hospitalised once when he was old primarily for another cause but his diabetes had gone wildly out of control and seemed to take a while to regularise.
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>> My dad was diabetic though I have no idea which type (I think 1 as
>> he injected insulin at least daily). He sometimes went hypo, which recovered very quickly with
>> a Mars bar or similar.
Working in the Quango one of our transient agency admin people was a young Australian man, another Simon. He was type 1 diabetic but neither he nor the agency had told us of this.
At time I had my own office, off corridor between main open plan area and kitchenette, copier etc. One morning he walked past my door, I thought he was off to copier or for a cuppa. Seconds later there was a repeated banging from kitchenette. Found Simon on floor having what seemed to be some sort of fit.
Instructed colleague to ring upstairs for First Aider while I called an ambulance (would have been quicker other way round - he too was new and I had to tell him who First Aiders were). While I'm still on phone to London Ambulance first aider walks past and thirty seconds later a recovered Simon walks into my office. She'd recognised his condition and managed to get some food (milk I think) into him.
Lessons were learned....
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>> My dad was diabetic though I have no idea which type (I think 1 as
>> he injected insulin at least daily).
It's not only type 1 sufferers that have to inject insulin. Some people with type 2 have to inject as well when the tablets (metformin mainly) no longer work successfully.
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according to some sources, in the Brexit referendum a lot of 18-25 yr olds didn't bother voting, and then complained about the result, and that the older generation have wrecked their futures. In this election (again according to some sources) most of the 18-25yr old votes went to Labour (probably due to university fees) and as such the Cons didn't get the majority they expected, now we've a hung-Parliament, and they're complaining about that mess, and they helped cause it!
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>> according to some sources, in the Brexit referendum a lot of 18-25 yr olds didn't
>> bother voting, and then complained about the result, and that the older generation have wrecked
>>now we've a hung-Parliament, and they're complaining about that mess,
>> and they helped cause it!
It's always the youngster's fault isn't it.
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Strange how the younger generation
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In this election (again according to some sources) most of the 18-25yr old
>> votes went to Labour (probably due to university fees) and as such the Cons didn't
>> get the majority they expected, now we've a hung-Parliament, and they're complaining about that mess,
>> and they helped cause it!
>>
I know what idiots, they should have looked in their crystal ball and see how everyone else was voting.
Or maybe it's the pensioners fault, if they hadn't voted conservative then we wouldn't be in this mess.
;-)
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>>now we've a hung-Parliament, and they're complaining about that mess, and they helped cause it!
The simple answer to this, and more besides, is not to allow the electorate to vote.
(*_*)
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>> Of course it is a disease.
Wouldn't it be more PC to call it a medical condition?
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>> Wouldn't it be more PC to call it a medical condition?
>>
NHS agrees with you.
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Diabetes/Pages/Diabetes.aspx
"Diabetes is a lifelong condition"
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>> Of course it is a disease.
>>
mh.bmj.com/content/26/1/9
>> Broadly an illness that isn't caused by a physical injury is a disease. In what
>> way would it be different from heart disease or cancer, for example?
>>
heart disease
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3084572/
cancer
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1518971/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1994798/
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Oh for goodness sake!
You can tell this is primarily a men's forum.
It was a well documented fact that she is diabetic.
Now, have you thought she may well have been diagnosed with something else and not want to broadcast it yet?
Or indeed that she may well be menopausal and have what is called 'women's' problems?
Of course not....you wouldn't even begin to understand just how embarrassing it can be to have to explain that to one acquaintance, let alone the whole country. No, of course not. You don't have those problems, do you?
If that's the case, she's gone for the esy option and I don't blame her one bit.
I'm no lover of Dianne Abbot but in all honesty all she is guilty of is admitting she wasn't well enough to cope with the pressure right now, and most of us who have ever got anywhere in life, didn't get there by giving up.
Love her or hate her, give her a break.
Pat
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You do talk some old crap.
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In a post of mine in Vol 2 I referred to Dianne Abbot's response to an email hoaxer about her health, where she said when asked about "adding colour" to her withdrawal from Woman's Hour, "I am worried about telling untruths about my health which can easily be disproved". It was reported in some of the press, and here it is from the Express tinyurl.com/ycbluj4u
It remains ambiguous but in my totally biased mind it pretty much says there was not a lot wrong with her, or at least she didn't think so.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 18:26
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Crap to you...try asking your wife if it's crap.
Pat
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I'm not a fan of either Dianne Abbott (see posts passim) or Pat but I'm in broad agreement with latter here !!!
Abbott's problem may diabetes, menopause, an anxiety condition or whatever. Its not unreasonable to conclude that a politician who moves from mid table woffler to embarrasingly inarticulate probably has a health problem.
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>> Its not unreasonable to conclude that a politician who moves from mid table woffler to embarrasingly inarticulate probably has a health problem.
Well, I'd probably change "probably" to "possibly", but I broadly agree.
But where all this sexist / men don't understand / just an excuse to hide menopause s***e comes from, God only knows.
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Tell any woman they are under performing because they are menstrual, and they will bite your head off!
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....and of course you would ask her.
Proves my point that an explanation of Diabetes is just a fabrication to save being embarrassed by journalist who know no better.
....and in their pursuit of her wouldn't hesitate to diagnose her prognosis if it is something else.
What an understanding bunch of blokes you've shown yourselves to be this last couple of days....shame on you.
Pat
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>>Proves my point...
???
Abbot & Her party say she has diabetes issues
Thus it is clear to you that this is "just a fabrication to save her being embarassed"
This therefore means to you that she is menopausal
Further leading you to believe that since this forum contains largely men then they can't understand
And then because men would or would not ask their wives this further confirms your thinking.
And all of this proves your point??? (Though goodness knows what point)
And then because the men of this forum have no b***** clue where you get this crap from, they should be ashamed?
Dear God, are you allowed to sign important documents on your own?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 18:52
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Bored and trying to pick a fight Mark?
Go find someone else as I'm away on holiday early tomorrow to celebrate the summer solstice next week.........and to see if the V90 fits the Cornish lanes:)
Pat
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Pick a fight with you? Why on earth would I do that? You do have a seriously inflated opinion of your relevance.
You come in here, spout a pile of s***, and then start on the victimised line when you're pulled up on it.
Go get a life you silly woman.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 22:52
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Hope the weather stays nice for you Pat, we've all got some mighty-fine sunny stuff well into next week ... and beyond?
The V90 will be okay down the lanes, but watch out for branches or bramble sticking out, as the hedges haven't been cut yet and they are quite overgrown.
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Thanks Dog.
We've had a lie in (for us) and now off to beat the traffic jams!
Keep your elbows in as I've downloaded OS maps on to a tablet to take with us as we left them all in the XC60 when we sold it. They always lived in the string pockets behind the front seats and they must be still there!
Failed miserably getting CD's on a memory stick though and didn't have time to ask what I'd done wrong so Planet Rock and Pirate FM it is then!
Pat
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I haven't been able to receive Planet Rock since they moved on the DAB network over a year ago.
My Music Radio is worth a listen now and again, playing 60's 70's and 80's music.
Best be careful where you park a car 'like that' down here, the scroats will think you have Lud's sort of money.
I hate it when I hear visitors to the Duchy have had their car window smashed and their belongings filched.
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Sounds a bit third world down there Dog. Do you have to pay a local lad to look after your car?
Haven't been to Cornwall for years. Think I'll keep to Greece.
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>>Sounds a bit third world down there Dog. Do you have to pay a local lad to look after your car?
Probably not confined to just Cornwall CG. Peops (some) leave their cars in remote car parks while they go orf walking to the beach or whatever, leaving their bags on show in the car and return to find them gorn :(
My sister luved the Greek islands but she can't go any more due to end-stage CKD.
Did you watch DIY SOS last night - Amazing!
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Sorry to her about your sister Dog. The Greek Isalnd are problaby my favourite part of the world.
Didn't see DIY SOS - will take a look. There have been some amazing projects on that show.
I suppose the reason I never get to the west country is the sheer slog of driving East/West in this country. I tend to get to Newark and turn right for somewhere like Yorkshire or the Scottish Borders if I want a break in this country
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I suppose the reason I never get to the west country is the sheer slog
>> of driving East/West in this country. I tend to get to Newark and turn right
>> for somewhere like Yorkshire or the Scottish Borders if I want a break in this
>> country
Same here, seems to take forever to get anywhere east-west in England. But i suppose living in e anglia is the back of beyond for many so not many roads have really been built or likely to be. Still a bit frustrating though.
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I wouldn't call it the back of beyond but by UK standards it can seem a little out of the way. Keeps the riff-raff out though :-)
They are building a new road to the North of Norwich at the moment . The Northern Distributor Road its called - due to open Christmas/spring 2018. Will make accessing the A47 easier for those North of Norwich
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>> I wouldn't call it the back of beyond but by UK standards it can seem
>> a little out of the way. Keeps the riff-raff out though :-)
>>
>> They are building a new road to the North of Norwich at the moment .
>> The Northern Distributor Road its called - due to open Christmas/spring 2018. Will make accessing
>> the A47 easier for those North of Norwich
But its still not a motorway link, Norwich is still at the end of either of two horrid slogs along average at best duelled A roads. Railways the same, except there is only one fastish link.
It was always thus, and I guess it always will be.
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>> I wouldn't call it the back of beyond but by UK standards it can seem
>> a little out of the way. Keeps the riff-raff out though :-)
Yes perhaps that's a better phrase ;) i know when relatives come visit they feel it takes forever to get anywhere.
>> They are building a new road to the North of Norwich at the moment .
>> The Northern Distributor Road its called - due to open Christmas/spring 2018. Will make accessing
>> the A47 easier for those North of Norwich
Lincoln is in the same situation, never quite sure why they didn't build a bypass the whole way around the city. Except Lincoln's is still on the back burner and has been for about 20 years i think.
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>> Same here, seems to take forever to get anywhere east-west in England.
Daughter in Plymouth area means we go down there 2-3 times/year. Shortest route is A43/M40/A34/Swindon/M4 etc. In practice though quicker to go via Southam to M40 North then M42>M5.
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Daughter in Plymouth area means
Plymouth isn't in the east, it may as well be in France. ;-)
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www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08vjn6z/diy-sos-series-28-2-the-big-build-welwyn-garden-city
>>I suppose the reason I never get to the west country is the sheer slog of driving East/West in this country
Best time to visit the west country is in Spring and Autumn when there's less traffic ... and more rain :o
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I wont travel west of the Tamar, Devon is where the UK ends for me, Cornwall is too dreary, the roads are rubbish, too crowded, the pasties better in Devon, ditto the cream teas.
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>>I wont travel west of the Tamar, Devon is where the UK ends for me, Cornwall is too dreary, the roads are rubbish, too crowded, the pasties better in Devon, ditto the cream teas.
Same reason I rarely if ever travel east of the Tamar these days.
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I once went to Cornwall (although it might have been devon it was rather forgetful) about 25 years ago, i remember it was crowded, expensive, took forever to get anywhere and it rained alot. Never been back, never saw the attraction of the place.
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I've lived here for over 20 years, and it's even more crowded and even more expensive now
I've never seen the attraction of the place either.
:o}
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>> I wont travel west of the Tamar, Devon is where the UK ends for me,
>> Cornwall is too dreary, the roads are rubbish, too crowded, the pasties better in Devon,
>> ditto the cream teas.
>>
That's ridiculous, Cornwall has a beautiful coastline, fantastic beaches and the Isles of Scilly is one of the most idyllic places on earth.
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>>That's ridiculous, Cornwall has a beautiful coastline, fantastic beaches and the Isles of Scilly is one of the most idyllic places on earth.
Don't give the game away Cheeseman, the roads are packed enough as it is.
;-)
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>> That's ridiculous, Cornwall has a beautiful coastline, fantastic beaches and the Isles of Scilly
Devon is better, why drive through it for somewhere not as good
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>> Probably not confined to just Cornwall CG. Peops (some) leave their cars in remote car
>> parks while they go orf walking to the beach or whatever, leaving their bags on
>> show in the car and return to find them gorn :(
It isn't confined to Cornwall. Round here it's the same, and despite signs reminding people not to leave valuables in the car (or on display), people do, then wonder why they've had their sat nav nicked off the windscreen mount, or their handbag taken from the back seat. Thieves will also break into a car with a coat on display to see if there is anything in the pockets.
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Only time I have had my car broken into in the last decade was in the centre of Amsterdam. Twice in two years. Of course the second time I knew instantly where the temporary side window replacement firm was. They type in your car make and model, and a machine laser cuts a thick perspex sheet, that they fit. 20 minutes total. Of course you can't use the electric winder, but it gets you home quickly and cheaply.
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Have a great time in Cornwall, Pat. I'm already missing it. If you have some decent weather it's hard to beat, apart from the crowds.
Where are you staying?
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Snooty Fox Morval with aa delightful dinner eaten outside by the water last night at The Edgecombe Arms at Cremyll
Today we're off to Penzance to a penthouse apartment over looking the harbour for 5 days, followed by a night at Widemouth Bay and then next week back down to Looe for a week.
Just off for a walk along the beach to watch the day break.....and paddle!
Pat
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Yoos cracked it with the wevver m8 - ewe wont want to go 'ome!
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I don't know the Looe area so well, but Penzance and the Penwith peninsula I know better, and better still the Lizard peninsula, Falmouth and Roseland.
My association with those areas goes back around 60 years. In fact, my parents started holidaying on the Lizard before WW2, when it was a journey from London by train and bus, in the days of the "Cornish Riviera" promoted by those lovely art deco rail posters. (Great Western Railway, it was in those days.)
Last edited by: Focal Point on Sat 17 Jun 17 at 10:54
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I knew a diabetic at uni who got ill. He ended up in a coma (found in his room in the tower we students lived in). When he was in hospital it was a worry and his memory (short-term) was seriously impacted. He did not know where he was, what had happened etc. So a note was put in his pyjama pocket... which he kept finding reading putting back.... then minutes later finding again. Repeat.
He did recover and I assume he's practicing medicine as a doctor somewhere. So not only was he diabetic but a trainee doctor. And he got caught out.
But if Abbott had anything wrong that stopped her functioning as a Home Secretary regardless of whether it was diabetes, menopause, anything which she was not managing properly... but she is not fit for that job. Unfair I know. But I'd also not want say a surgeon with similar issues operating on me - her excuses are not acceptable for an important job.
If it was the menopause that stopped her doing her job... well better that than doing a bad job. And yes I know about the menopause.
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>> But if Abbott had anything wrong that stopped her functioning as a Home Secretary regardless
>> of whether it was diabetes, menopause, anything which she was not managing properly... but she
>> is not fit for that job. Unfair I know.
Unfair and silly. How would you feel if you were diabetic and one day "failed to manage" your blood sugar properly and your employer fired you? Any of us can get ill at any time.
That doesn't mean she isn't unfit, but I don't think either of us can diagnose that from here.
If she does come back to the shadow cabinet, I'm sure she will have been signed off.
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Bromp,
Any reasonable person , on here or elsewhere, is sympathetic to the problems of diabetes sufferers or anyone with similar debilitating conditions.
Similarly any reasonable person will be sympathetic to anyone who suffers racism or sexism, neither are on any way justifiable in aa modern civilised society.
However, for a full time, experienced politician not to have managed her condition, if it really affected her in the election interviews which, having watched and listened, I do not believe for one minute that it did, is still inexcusable. And any way you look at it she messed up big time.
I have a number of late relatives who suffered from both kinds of diabetes and recognise LY's reference to `"confusion and talking gibberish". I do not for one second believe that this applied in Ms Abbott's case.
Please stop defending the indefensible, you do your own credibility no good.
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@commerdriver
>> Please stop defending the indefensible, you do your own credibility no good.
Thae fact that you post the message above says more about you, and those who 'thumb' you than my suggestion that there is support for Abbott's position. Not diabetic but I've had anxiety conditions reduce me to inability to comprehend and carry out instructions or to give a cogent account of myself.
If I think stuff's worth posting I'll post it. If we all just agreed this place would die even more quickly than it's doing already.
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Not denying your right to post it but it has lowered my opinion of you considerably.
Our views differ but in general I respect not only your right to hold them but the depth of knowledge you have on many matters.
In this one, I still think you are defending someone who does not deserve defence for her media displays during the election.
I apologise if this exchange has caused any offence.
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>> Thae fact that you post the message above says more about you, and those who
>> 'thumb' you than my suggestion that there is support for Abbott's position.
Abbots postion is indefensible. If she has a medical condition that caused her issues during an interview, then maybe thats an excuse. It happened more than once and more than one interview.
She is unsuitable for current role, and certainly if it really meant anything in power, and she is using a medical condition as an excuse. As has been said, there are loads of type 2 diabetes sufferers who lead busy important stressful and successful lives. She couldn't.
She was sacked for incompetence* Nothing more nothing less.
*and if Jeremy has to sack a black female raging left wing supporter, then she has to be very bad indeed.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 14:13
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I have to say that having watched the interviews I did think she was confused (and I said so here before the diabetes story) - her answers were not in any way smart or even self consistent and had she simply forgotten or neglected to brief herself on the numbers she would still have looked bad, but she would certainly have done a much better job of dealing with it.
As to blaming her for not managing her condition - an election campaign might make that more important but would also add greatly to the difficulty of doing it.
I have never been a particular fan of Abbott who has sometimes seemed a bit tunnel-visioned to me but I don't think her basic intelligence has even been in doubt. She was a front bencher in the Milliband opposition so the idea that she would not be there but for the Corbyn situation is wrong.
As a high profile black woman politician she has to deal with relentless online abuse every day of an almost unimaginable scale and unpleasantness; in the campaign she became a target for the media, more polite but just as biased IMO, hence the 'numbers quiz' which is an almost infallible method of bullying anybody - just keep asking questions from your prepared list until you reach one they don't have at their fingertips.
And still it goes on - with implications that the diabetes is a made up excuse, or if it isn't then it is still her fault.
Perhaps she should just have learned a couple of standard responses like TM, and trotted those out - they frequently went unchallenged.
There is something wrong with the media in general when they are running so consistently what amount to personal attacks on politicians. The press and TV are, or should be, an essential component of the democratic process, communicating and challenging political statements and actions - instead they sometimes seem to be trying to ruin their targets in any way possible. It doesn't help anybody - I want to hear the truth, not to be manipulated into thinking Diane Abbott is some sort of fraud unless she really is and the evidence of my eyes and ears suggests she isn't.
The press all round appear to have been overwhelmingly negative during the campaign. Somebody did actually try to quantify it:
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/partisan-newspapers-negative-election-campaign_uk_593dbab1e4b0c5a35ca099be
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 15 Jun 17 at 14:38
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>> I want to hear the truth, not to be manipulated into thinking Diane Abbott is some sort of fraud unless she really is and the evidence of my eyes and ears suggests she isn't.
I think the problem with judging politicians is that they are mostly not frauds. However, though usually not fraudulent I think pretty much all of the front line politicians at the moment are incompetent.
I'd be surprised if Abbott was actually a fraud. So I assume that her performance in the election was related to her competence or her illness.
I am sure she has diabetes, it would be a dumb lie to tell. It may well have had an impact on her performance in the interviews, she certainly seemed more than normally confused/disoriented.
If we take it at face value then she has a condition that in a time of stress she failed to control.
That illness and competence level will remain, I presume, after an election when she was hoping to being in some level of power.
I can see no reason to believe, or even think, that she would be more suitable that than she was campaigning.
If nothing else, someone else had to remove her from the spotlight, she did not seemingly have the sense to do it herself. Though one never knows for sure what goes on behind the scenes.
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>> The press all round appear to have been overwhelmingly negative during the campaign. Somebody did
>> actually try to quantify it:
>>
>> www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/partisan-newspapers-negative-election-campaign_uk_593dbab1e4b0c5a35ca099be
>>
Of course the journalist from The Morning Star wouldn't see the irony in his question, would he?
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>> Of course the journalist from The Morning Star wouldn't see the irony in his question,
>> would he?
It was still an apposite question and it got quite a good answer:)
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>> There is something wrong with the media in general when they are running so consistently
>> what amount to personal attacks on politicians. The press and TV are, or should be,
>> an essential component of the democratic process, communicating and challenging political statements and actions -
>> instead they sometimes seem to be trying to ruin their targets in any way possible.
Completely unfounded. Most UK politicians exist to personally attack their opposition and hoodwink and control the media. Its what UK electioneering is all about.
It shouldn't be, but it is. It was before Abbot came to prominence, she has done it herself, and it will continue to happen. She knew that before she joined the shark pool.
She as been pretty useless at every senior and junior shadow cabinet role she has had. She has not been inconsistent in they respect.
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Not question of founded or unfounded, it's just a fact.
Anyway, which is the chicken and which the egg? When the media sets the agenda, most people, not only politicians, would respond in kind - it becomes a contest to make your opponent look worse than you are, instead of a contest of ideas.
Corbyn, whom I know you admire, has done remarkably well at not making personal attacks. TM on the other hand managed to mention him ten times in her 'personal' letter to us, while not mentioning her policies at all.
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Evening Standard:
Revealed: How Theresa May's two aides seized control of the Tory election campaign to calamitous effect
goo.gl/3Kd3YP
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"How Theresa May's two aides seized control of the Tory election campaign to calamitous effect"
Yes, she was badly advised. But who brought those advisors with her from the Home Office? May is still wholly responsible for a b***** awful election campaign and she has continued to handle things badly with the tower block fire.
I thought she wasn't doing too badly until she called the election.
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I didn't mean to make excuses for TM; maybe the Standard did. But it is still a revealing article about how these campaigns are actually run. George Osborne as the editor probably has more influence over the party now than TM.
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>> I thought she wasn't doing too badly until she called the election.
I thought she wasn't doing too badly until she produced the manifesto.
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Philip Hammond plants his flag in what looks very much like early positioning for a leadership bid.
He would get my vote if it's him or Johnson.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40318674
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>>He would get my vote if it's him or Johnson
Hardly a great endorsement.
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>> Philip Hammond plants his flag in what looks very much like early positioning for a
>> leadership bid.
>>
>> He would get my vote if it's him or Johnson.
Vote for a safe pair of hands?
That went well last time.
He's preferable to Boris though.
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Spreadsheet phil? Not sure he's cut out for the top job. Not many other candidates spring to mind though.
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I can't think of many in the Conservative party apart from Boris who has the charisma to inspire the electorate, though he would probably put an equal number off. Amber Rudd is a possible though a bit of an unknown up to now, and also sitting on a small majority in her seat. It would be rather embarrassing to have one's leader defeated at the polls.
Corbyn however, has played a blinder so far.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 18 Jun 17 at 14:44
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>> Philip Hammond plants his flag in what looks very much like early positioning for a
>> leadership bid.
>>
>> He would get my vote if it's him or Johnson.
You are a member?
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Member of Parliament?
No.
Was speaking figuratively
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Members of the Tory party get a vote between MPs first and second choices. Didn't get that far last time as Andrea Leadsom/Loathsome realised her limitations and pulled out.
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Tim Farron - Hard Cheese
