>> Fatalities reported on Sky.
>>
>> Awful.
>>
Yet, we have the usual suspect apologists coming on here to find reasons to justify the killing of innocent kids attending a pop concert.
Utterly shameful.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 25 May 17 at 10:21
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>> Yet, we have the usual suspect apologists coming on here to find reasons to justify
>> the killing of innocent kids attending a pop concert.
Come on then, point out the posts/apologists to whom you refer...
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>>...... the usual suspect apologists coming on here to find reasons to justify
>> the killing of innocent kids ........
...I must have missed that.....
.....another bit of spin?
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I've read and re-read and I can't find that bit. Can you point it out?
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>>I've read and re-read and I can't find that bit. Can you point it out?
Apparently not.
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>> Yet, we have the usual suspect apologists coming on here to find reasons to justify
>> the killing of innocent kids attending a pop concert.
>>
>> Utterly shameful.
And you sir are a shameful liar. Nothing of the sort had been done on here.
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I have just got home from work so apart from my first comment I have not had the chance to post further until now.
Internment doesn't really work. It looks like it does, but just alienates loads of people, many of whom will be innocent. Do we really want to go around locking up innocent people?
Real bad guys will use internment to justify their cause, even if they do worse or want a state that will do worse. They will go on hunger strike to make martyrs of themselves.
You can't say terrorists shouldn't get legal aid. People need to be able to have legal defence against the State. If they don't innocent people will be locked up. You may as well live in a tyranny, because you can be sure of trickle-down and you won't get legal aid for murders or litter droppers and everyone will be effectively guilty.
Those who say something must be done. Well it is. MI5 and the security services are working hard. If you mean get rid of all the Muslims then you are a bigot and may as well start on a crusade. Not all Muslims are bad and remember we were under significant threat by Christians until recently and they exploded one of the biggest bombs in Manchester.
Take That have probably been warned off their appearances by the authorities. The venue is still probably being checked and damage needs to be made safe and police resources are needed to investigate the crime and keep everyone else safe. Its probably too much to ask them to police another concert at such short notice.
No one here has apologised for the scum that committed this outrage. What has been said is that we have the rule of law in this country and the law should be used. We don't need new laws. There are enough laws already that can be used to put these terrorists in jail for life and this can be achieved by going through the proper and fair legal processes. We are better than them and sinking to their level helps only them. Further the acts of a madman should not condemn a whole community.
To the heroes of Manchester, the emergency services, the woman who led a gaggle of kids to the Holiday Inn, the homeless man who comforted a dying woman. Thank you for showing how much better we are!
To the politicians and leaders, thank you for not going down the route of the despot who would happily single out a community for punishment but by instead calling for unity against savage killers. On R4 this AM it was said that it takes 30 officers to monitor 1 person. Perhaps tax cuts weren't the right answer and money should be spent increasing the intelligence services as well as the police
My work website said one of my colleagues has been caught up in this. He is badly injured and isn't named.
Sorry I haven't sat and thought about this for hours. Its just feelings after a very long day as well as a six hour drive.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40023488
Unusual step, probably means that investigations into Manchester has revealed another (or more) credible threat.
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apparently army also being called in to replace police guarding buildings.
If I was a cynic, I would say this move may have been politically motivated.
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>> apparently army also being called in to replace police guarding buildings.
>>
>> If I was a cynic, I would say this move may have been politically motivated.
No!!! How could such a thing possibly happen......
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>> apparently army also being called in to replace police guarding buildings.
>>
>> If I was a cynic, I would say this move may have been politically motivated.
Thats a very very dangerous game to play, one that if you get discovered playing you get crucified. Permanently. The backlash would be huge.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 May 17 at 22:07
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>>Thats a very very dangerous game to play, one that if you get discovered playing you get crucified. Permanently. The backlash would be huge.
I would imagine it would be relatively easy to justify at this moment in time so no huge backlash. Any enquiry into this would probably be delayed several years and decision not given before the general election after the next!
Tony Blair doesn't seem to be suffering too much from the backlash over his war decisions.
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>> Tony Blair doesn't seem to be suffering too much from the backlash over his war
>> decisions.
It cost him his reputation, and he is damaged goods in the UK, a liability politically.
Getting the army on the streets during an election campaign will be examined under a microscope. Wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't shared the reason with Corbyn If he doesn't kick off in the next 24 hours you know thats the case.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 May 17 at 22:39
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>> Getting the army on the streets during an election campaign will be examined under a
>> microscope. Wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't shared the reason with Corbyn If he doesn't
>> kick off in the next 24 hours you know thats the case.
>>
The cynic in me initially thought; put the army on the streets, ve are in control, you vill vote for us!
The more level headed me came to the same conclusion as you. All eyes on Jeremy's reaction then.
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>>It cost him his reputation, and he is damaged goods in the UK, a liability politically.
As he is floating amongst his various homes, touring the world on expenses, getting paid six figure salaries for speeches, I am pretty sure he has no inclination to come back to have an active role in our political system.
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>> If I was a cynic, I would say this move may have been politically motivated.
>>
It's a hell of a dead cat to distract from "weak and wobbly".
I've little doubt that there will be a smidgen of relief in some quasi-political circles, (are you there, Lynton?) but don't take the cynicism angle too far - they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 23 May 17 at 22:10
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"I would say this move may have been politically motivated."
We're putting a few pongos out to guard some buildings ......... we aren't invading anywhere.
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>> apparently army also being called in to replace police guarding buildings.
>>
>> If I was a cynic, I would say this move may have been politically motivated.
>>
The military do have a specific task to support the civil authorities in various roles. As the threat level just went up it doesn't seem unreasonable, not the first time either.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 23 May 17 at 22:52
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>> The military do have a specific task to support the civil authorities in various roles.
>> As the threat level just went up it doesn't seem unreasonable, not the first time
>> either.
The military did an excellent job in the Olympics, when they were hauled in to fix G4S's balls up.
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Yes although i was thinking of Heathrow, sometime around 05?
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>> Yes although i was thinking of Heathrow, sometime around 05?
Oh yes, the tanks on the perimeter road thing.
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> Oh yes, the tanks on the perimeter road thing.
>>
IIRC, and seeing as pedantry matters here, i think they were cvt, more an armoured vehicle rather than a tank. Blues and royals i think.
;-)
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 23 May 17 at 23:35
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>> Yet, we have the usual suspect apologists coming on here to find reasons to justify
>> the killing of innocent kids attending a pop concert.
>>
>> Utterly shameful.
>>
>>
Yes, that post is utterly shameful!
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 23 May 17 at 23:36
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Haras Rafiq, Mancunian, Muslim, member of the Advisory Group on Online Terrorist Propaganda at Europol’s European Counter-terrorism Centre has this to say:
"As a Mancunian, I feel the trauma. As a father, I feel the families’ pain. As a Muslim, this evil disgusts me; it cannot be the “new normalâ€. The Manchester Arena suicide bomber has been named as 22-year-old British-born Salman Abedi, who grew up yards from the girls’ high school which became infamous when, in 2015, pupils and twins Zahra and Salma Halane fled their homes to join the Islamic State in Syria. We’ve seen this in Manchester before, and there are parts of our city and great nation suffering at the hands of extremist networks.
Whether Abedi was a self-starter acting alone, part of a terror cell, or received assistance remains to be seen. Whichever turns out to be true, though Isil is inching towards its territorial death in Syria and Iraq, we must not delude ourselves that this phenomenon is on the way out.
The global jihadist insurgency is thriving; Islamist extremism remains the single biggest threat we face.
What makes this mutation from “domestic†caliphate-building to “foreign†suicide terrorism so volatile is that it is no longer based on a perceived physical or political threat, but is purely based on a hyper-ideological struggle. Any way of life that stands in opposition with their twisted world-view is immediately marked as a target. This is why so many attacks – in Manchester, Istanbul, Orlando, and Paris – occur in places like nightclubs and concert venues.
Enough is enough, and it is time for British Muslims to rise to the occasion and self-diagnose the malaise that is seeping through our community. It is not enough to simply distance our faith from these monsters, we must categorically refute the Islamist ideology that fuels their twisted world-view. We must take back control of our own narrative by holding our community, our religious leaders, and our mosques accountable when they say something that just doesn’t sound right. "
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 25 May 17 at 10:20
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Meanwhile loonie lefties hint at conspiracy theories;
Jack Murray, whose father Andrew Murray was recently installed as Mr Corbyn’s election chief, said the Manchester suicide bombing had come at an “unbelievably ideal time†for Theresa May.
Debbie Hicks, a Labour Party vice chairman in Stroud, Gloucs, wroteg on Facebook: "I can't help thinking this is wonderful timing for Theresa May."
Sam Kriss, a supporter of Mr Corbyn and journalist for the Vice news website, said: “I'm sure absolutely no political calculation went into the decision to put Strong Decisive Army Men on the streets weeks before the election.â€
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Those three are doing Labour no favours with what they have said. Idiots.
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>> Meanwhile loonie lefties hint at conspiracy theories;
>>
Panic as they are falling off the gravy train. I wonder how Corbyn would handle this or a more serious situation.
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>> >> Meanwhile loonie lefties hint at conspiracy theories;
>> >>
>>
>> Panic as they are falling off the gravy train. I wonder how Corbyn would handle
>> this or a more serious situation.
Hopefully he would do exactly as he is doing now, but make sure that the necessary resources are made available, and leave it to the professionals.
May's contribution beforehand was to reduce police numbers by 25,000.
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>> Hopefully he would do exactly as he is doing now, but make sure that the
>> necessary resources are made available, and leave it to the professionals.
>>
Ah, you mean keeping his head so far below the parapet he is invisible. I haven't heard a word from him since the bombing.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 24 May 17 at 19:05
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>> Ah, you mean keeping his head so far below the parapet he is invisible. I
>> haven't heard a word from him since the bombing.
Corbyn's visibility and accessibility has been miles ahead of May's for the last few weeks. She has been actively avoiding the general public
As to response to the bombing we can only know what is reported.
Take your pick
goo.gl/oExqGQ May
goo.gl/47YC5T Corbyn
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The TV "meeja" are in full-on "grief milking for a story" mode - still, every time the TV is switched on. All channels.
What a wimpish, milk-sop nation we have become.
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>> The TV "meeja" are in full-on "grief milking for a story" mode - still, every
>> time the TV is switched on. All channels.
>> What a wimpish, milk-sop nation we have become.
We will do our best to be happy, outgoing and celebratory at your funeral then. Its going to be a struggle but I am sure we can manage it.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 24 May 17 at 19:33
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Princess Diana's funeral created the mass grief hysteria we suffer from now. I am not sure where the offence by proxy epidemic came from.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 24 May 17 at 19:54
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>>Happy
The action of some of the ordinary folk make me happy; the taxi drivers offering free lifts, the hotels and homeowners opening their doors to strangers, the people offering others a hug. The coppers and the paramedics, doctors and firemen running towards the danger. Not unique to the UK, in France and Germany people opened their doors to strangers.
>>Grief.
Why not. Kids and innocent adults have been killed and maimed. It would take a ghoul not to feel something.
Anger.
Yes. Raged, outraged, in the same way as I was when Jo Cox was murdered, because it is an outrage against all of us, an attack on our way of life.
Apologist. Never. Just because I don't think every Muslim should be strung up or incarcerated without trial, doesn't mean that I don't want the perpetrators of these crimes and their associates captured, tried and gaoled, without possibility of release.
Last edited by: zippy on Wed 24 May 17 at 20:07
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>> We will do our best to be happy, outgoing and celebratory at your funeral then.
>> Its going to be a struggle but I am sure we can manage it.
With a bit of luck I won't have a funeral, having arranged to have my empty shell donated to Sheffield Teaching Hospital, for medical research/teaching.
If that fails to happen 'cos they have enough stiffs, don't worry - you're not invited anyway!
As a matter of fact, I'll be attending my late brother-in-law's funeral early next month. My sister has requested no flowers, (only ones will be from her and my two nephews). As she says, "it's at the local crem. and expensive flowers are a waste, as they are left to wither and die outside, after the event."
There's calm acceptance and "carrying on" for you.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 25 May 17 at 01:48
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>> Meanwhile loonie lefties hint at conspiracy theories;
>>
>> Jack Murray, whose father Andrew Murray was recently installed as Mr Corbyn’s election chief, said
>> the Manchester suicide bombing had come at an “unbelievably ideal time†for Theresa May.
What's your source for these 'hints'?
You don't need to be into conspiracy to recognise that it presents Treeza with opportunity to (a) appear Prime Ministerial and strong/steady and (b) to dog whistle message that Jezza's not up to snuff.
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>> What's your source for these 'hints'?
>>
You spent too much of your life in court Bromp :-)
The jack Murray one was tweeted.
Whether you accept his line that Jeremy's prior attitude to terror, unilateral nuclear disarmament and no action against tyrants/dictators etc in the Middle East would be better to deal with isis is the point.
I don't personally.
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Well, those who disdain British culture certainly seem to be gaining a foothold - when I arrived at our local concert hall last night, it was being patrolled by armed police; I'd neverathortit.
Here's your reference, Brompt :
www.eadt.co.uk/news/armed-police-at-the-apex-music-venue-bury-st-edmunds-after-manchester-arena-terrorist-attack-1-5033781
The report did get one thing wrong - it wasn't an open-air concert by the Aurora Orchestra - the performance was held inside the hall. Those of you who haven't seen the Aurora, and appreciate fine music, should look them out. They played Brahms 1st symphony from memory and for the encore, the musicians dispersed themselves around the auditorium and played from there - it was like stereo x 50.
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I have attended a winter season of military band concerts for decades. There is and always has been unobtrusive armed security which would not be noticed by most people. Armed security is more common than you may think, it has just become overt in the current situation to be seen to be doing something.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 25 May 17 at 08:18
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I am not surprised they are peed off, giving info to the opposition is not helpful (biting tongue version!).
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 25 May 17 at 12:00
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Explosions Reported at Manchester Arena - Bromptonaut
