Last month I had to fit a new heater to my washing machine - £20 fix.
Yesterday I had to fit a door lock interface - £25.
Tonight it tripped the electrics and it seems the motor's dead.
Have I just been unlucky, or can manufacturers design components with such accuracy they last a certain time?
If I repair it again I think SWMBO may lynch me. Seems I'll be shopping for a new machine tomorrow.
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How old is it - washing machines don't last forever - they lead a hard life. Anything over six years for an average run of the mill brand and I'd chuck it and buy a new one.
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In real £ terms white goods have been getting cheaper over at least a couple of decades.
One way that the manufacturers have saved money is by using significantly cheaper components so they just don't last as long as they used to.
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>> In real £ terms white goods have been getting cheaper over at least a couple
>> of decades.
>>
>> One way that the manufacturers have saved money is by using significantly cheaper components so
>> they just don't last as long as they used to.
I don't think that is true. Productivity and technology (especially microprocessors) improvements are what have reduced real prices.
The first washer I bought cost £220 in late 1980. The first colour TV I bought cost £300+ at around the same time.
That £220, using RPI, would be £850 or so now. You can still buy a £220 washer, incredibly, and a £500 washer, still cheaper in real terms, is likely to be considerably more reliable than the 1980 one.
Components will certainly be cheaper in real terms but not necessarily poorer, and the consistency of manufacture, quality control, is much higher now mainly due to automation in manufacturing.
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A set of carbon brushes and it'll probably do another couple of years.
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>> A set of carbon brushes and it'll probably do another couple of years.
IME brushes usually give some warning of imminent failure, such as motor running slowly, intermittently or noisily. I've never experienced brushes causing the electric to trip.
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>>I don't think that is true. Productivity and technology (especially microprocessors) >>improvements are what have reduced real prices
Yes, essentially because of what they have done to predictability.
The components are certainly cheaper, most certainly more predictable than they were 25 years ago and the production is automated. Where it is not automated, it is largely produced by specialists, so quality is inherently higher.
Also, and I suspect that many people do not appreciate this, many components in quite differently priced products, with quite different levels of reliability come from the same production line.
Over simplifying the matter this is what happens;
100 items are made, at a cost @£10, total = £1,000. The factory sells them all at a 10% margin so revenue is £1,100. 30% are either DOA or fail within 12 months. There is little testing beyond visual inspection.
Company 1 is quite happy with a 30% failure rate, so incorporates the £11 component in his device which he then sells as a £100 product.
Company 2 wants a better product. So he insists on a 20% failure rate. Therefore the manufacturer implements an addition QA test and weeds out 1/3 of the potential failures. But since he can now not sell that 10% of his product, 'cos its crap, he charges each "better" item @ £13.00. Total revenue now potentially 90 * £13 = £1,170. Company 2 now charges more for his improved item.
Company 3 wants the best. They want no failures in the first 12 months. Factory implements many tests and weeds out all the failures. But now he's only selling £70, though with the warranty he can now offer, he sells them at £18 each. Total revenue 70* £18 = £1,260
Ok, its more complicated than that but the essential point is this, by and large all similar products you buy have components from the same production line, whoever you bought it from. But some have been through more QA testing.
So, when someone tells you that you are buying a product from an unknown manufacturer very cheaply, but you shouldn't worry because all the components came from the same production line as Toshiba's / Rolls's / Whoever's, then they are half right, same production line, same process, much less QA testing, or at least, testing with different criteria for a successful pass.
You might be lucky. 30% of the time you won't be, but those aren't bad odds. Were it not for the fact that your product contains so many different components.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 12 May 17 at 01:22
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Been to numerous vehicle component manufacturers. Same parts are sold to many manufacturers from the cheapest to seriously expensive.
I have been told by a chip designer that when manufactures make a particular chip they make one model and test the output. Failure rate is high. So they made models with a floating point unit and if that didn't pass testing they would sell it as a lower specification model. They also did the same with cores so if all 4 cores worked that would be top of the range and if only two worked then they would be the standard model etc. Don't know if this still holds today.
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>> Also, and I suspect that many people do not appreciate this, many components in quite
>> differently priced products, with quite different levels of reliability come from the same production line.
I am sure the same applies to cars.
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my 1st Colour TV £220 for 22" Pye(Phillips Brand) in 1972 - broke down 2/3 times per year - service contract £50/year.
Since the early 80s I have bought a new TV every 8/9 years to get new features - higher definition, bigger screen - repairs NIL & passed on the TV to others who used them for years after.
1978 Hoover/Hotpoint Auto washer was £80-100 about my takehome pay for more than 1 week's work & probably breakdown once a year!
Today I can buy a a Hotpoint washer from Costco for £200 - a wee bit more than my State Pension of £180 /week & it will probably work for 10 years or so with no repairs,
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It's well known in the classic car world that old stock is much more reliable than new.
Time and again someone reports having trouble having fitted new rotor arm, coil, distributor cap, condenser, brake pads, brake cylinders, etc, and is advised to find a 50-year old item from a car boot still in original packaging.
My dishwashers up to the present Miele have lasted a progressively short time. My first cheap Indesit lasted 19 years. The Indesit replacement lasted about half that. The next 5. Went up market with the Miele and it's still as new after 6 years.
But most washing machine failures are from very simple causes. Motor brushes are the number one fail - it's always worth keeping a spare set and take minutes to replace.
I don't bother with the door lock sensor. When it fails just by-pass it and remember not to open the door when the drum is full of water.
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>>
>> I don't bother with the door lock sensor. When it fails just by-pass it and
>> remember not to open the door when the drum is full of water.
>>
Where's the fun in that?
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>> >>
>> >> I don't bother with the door lock sensor. When it fails just by-pass it
>> and
>> >> remember not to open the door when the drum is full of water.
I'm old enough to remember early front loader washers without a door interlock. The latch button could be removed to prevent children or 'accidents'. Mum trusted us not to mess with it and left button in place.
Gas board engineer coming to service boiler caught button with his toolbag............
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>>I don't bother with the door lock sensor. When it fails just by-pass it and remember not to open the door when the drum is full of water.
I considered that, but with a dead interlock there was no way of measuring which were the live, neutral and common contacts. The three yellow wires were no help either and the consequences of SWMBO opening the door when full of water didn't bear consideration.
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Built-in obsolescence - CGNorwich
