Saw this article today where an insurer refused to pay out because the dog owner let the dog's lead slip through her hand and dog got knocked down.
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/authors/the-judge/dog-owners-fury-after-animal-10274049
My dog is absolutely never on a lead so this has came as a shock to me that this would be a caveat.
Any dog owners out there know about this or have an insurance co to recommend that this wouldn't be an exclusion?
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>> Saw this article today where an insurer refused to pay out because the dog owner
>> let the dog's lead slip through her hand and dog got knocked down.
Seems fair to me. The dog has to be kept on a lead. It wasn't.
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>> Any dog owners out there know about this or have an insurance co to recommend
>> that this wouldn't be an exclusion?
You have the responsibility to keep your dog under control. If it runs under a car, and it wasn't on a lead, not only will your insurer probably fail to pay out, you may also be committing an offence under local bylaws. Its no good claiming it was well trained and under control, because if it ran in the road, clearly it wasn't.
The case in point here is different, the dog was on a lead and I suspect the bad publicity may well cause the ins company to do a u-turn. (if it is as reported, as we all know that often not the case)
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I've a couple of experiences of un-insured dogs getting injured.
The first, a few decades ago when pets were a disposable item, resulted in the mutt being sedated and and limping for the rest of its life.
The second involved my Springer chasing a rabbit across the road and destroying part of a Reliant's bodywork. The owner was so distraught, they didn't seem to think of chasing me for costs.
Because of vet's charges, I refuse to have any pets now.
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>>Because of vet's charges, I refuse to have any pets now.
Do what I did, marry a vet.
'Course, it does mean that you don't sleep very soundly after a bad row. I can't help thinking about Lorena Bobbitt.
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My dog is absolutely never on a lead so this has came as a shock
>> to me that this would be a caveat.
Curious, why don't you use a dog lead?
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It's an autonomous dog. There are still a lot of insurance and liability questions to be sorted out before these are allowed on the roads.
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>> It's an autonomous dog. There are still a lot of insurance and liability questions to
>> be sorted out before these are allowed on the roads.
>>
Very good!
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>> Curious, why don't you use a dog lead?
We (my dog and I) compete in dog obedience competitions,. There one has to do complicated manoeuvres off lead with your dog glued to your side. It has to sit, stand, go to a place, fetch, stay, all on command from a distance. It does this in rings with hundreds of people with their dogs walking around outside the rope.
Wherever and whenever possible my dog is off lead in everyday situations so it can be a dog.
Being a dog, if it sees a rabbit it will turn feral, prey drive will kick in and it will be away. I can stop it or recall it on command, but I am human, and I might not be paying proper attention.
Main Road, its always on lead.
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>> Curious, why don't you use a dog lead?
My neighbours dogs pests don't even have collars to attach leads too. I could be wrong, but I suspect he doesn't even have them microchipped.
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Ny neighbours two dogs yap and howl in the garden for hours on end every day. They are completely untrained and never taken for a walk.
One got out last week and was standing in the road yapping at my car as I approached. I was so so tempted to put my foot on the accelerator.
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>> Ny neighbours two dogs yap and howl in the garden for hours on end every day. They are completely untrained and never taken for a walk.
Snap, sounds like we've got the same neighbour. The grass out in the front garden is also littered with dog mess. It gets picked up once a week if we're lucky. Can't leave the windows open much in summer because of the stench from it.
Also the surrounding communal area often has dog mess left around too. I've previously tackled the neighbour about it, to be told "it's not my dogs doing it". Funny that prior to him moving in there was never an issue with dog mess in the area. You do the math.
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>>You do the math. <<
Two and four turds
:)
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My dog is very rarely on a lead, only really if we go into a busy town centre or something. I'm sure he'd be fine even then, but it seems to make some people nervous nowadays if they see a dog off the lead in a busy place. It's all gone very high vis jacket.
He just trots along beside me either if I'm walking or if I'm on my bike and waits to be told if he can run off. If his attention wanders I can get him to stop, sit or return on command or in extreme circumstances (like a cat in the vicinity) by bribing him with a dog treat.
You have to put the work in with dogs but once they are trained you can control their behaviour provided you don't let your own concentration drop.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 24 Apr 17 at 15:05
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It's not a matter of being high viz jacket, some people (my daughter included) are for some reason absolutely terrified of dogs. Must admit I'm not a lover of being slobbered all over by something which was licking it's rear end not long ago.
I don't think it's that unreasonable for dogs to be kept under control on a lead in urban areas. Most owners are not as responsible as those we clearly have here, and non-dog people don't understand that not all dogs/owners are alike.
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>>Curious, why don't you use a dog lead?
We are probably victims of our success at training (or not training).
Since he was a pup he was trained to stop at every kerb, pavement etc and always comes back when asked. So from early on he has never been on a lead.
However the downside of this training is when we have had to put him on a lead he just pulls on it constantly. So its easier to do without.
We did have him on an extended lead last year when we were camping and that seemed to work ok so we may need to revisit that.
As a cyclist, I am not keen on extendable leads..........
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>> We did have him on an extended lead last year when we were camping and
>> that seemed to work ok so we may need to revisit that.
>>
>> As a cyclist, I am not keen on extendable leads..........
As a dog owner that is keen to prolong my life and health and that of my dog, I wont go near an extendable lead. Dangerous ruddy things.
Pulling on the lead is easy to fix. There is the very quick but not so "positive motivational training"
or the kinder friendlier but slightly longer way.
Quick way is the give a good hard fast jerk of the lead, one that stops him in his tracks, with a firm NO. 10 of those will do it. Very old school Barbera Woodhouse method.
the kinder slower way is to stop and make him sit very time he pulls on the collar. They realise after a while that pulling on the collar gets them nowhere, literally. You need to throw in the NO word at the moment of tugging so they put action, reaction and consequences together.
Another way is to put them on the lead before you open the front door, and as soon as they pull on it, go back inside and time out for 5 minutes. Again you need to put the no word in for the action/reaction/consequences
And of course, all the time they are not tugging, reinforce the good behaviour with praise/treats/play.
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Seems to me ...
... that walking out of the house with no dog lead is a deliberate act, whereas a lead slipping through fingers is an accident and so should be covered.
Rather like foot slipping off brake pedal is an accident that insurers pay up for.
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Cheers Zero - will give those a try , of course everyone in the household needs to do the same for it to work!
When he has been on lead, he pulls till he chokes and I pull him back etc but he just doesn't seem to link the choking with what he is doing.
Whats wrong with extendable leads, I assume you are meaning he cable type things that when wrapped round a leg can cause damage? I think there are some "belt" type ones on the market that are maybe less brutal?
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That seems like wuff justice to me.
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We did a variety of Z's sit every time they pull with our last dog when we got her, which was to turn and head the other way each time she pulled.
Keys, as Z says were doing it every time, with a 'no" to connect the action, and making sure we all did this. Sorted out within a few days.
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>> Whats wrong with extendable leads, I assume you are meaning he cable type things that
>> when wrapped round a leg can cause damage? I think there are some "belt" type
>> ones on the market that are maybe less brutal?
Its the fact they can get too long and can do so in a heartbeat before you get a chance to lock the button. The dog can suddenly be 10 feet away from you into the path of a cyclist or in the road, the wrong side of a lamppost etc etc.
Just type into google "killed by extendable dog lead" One woman got dragged under a bus.
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>> The dog can suddenly be 10
>> feet away from you into the path of a cyclist
Absolutely. They're downright dangerous to cyclists. You expect them on shared use tracks etc and ride accordingly but I was nearly offed by one on Archway Road. I was going down so not dawdling when I spotted dog in road, eyes straight to owner who had tell tale reel in his mitt. Avoided but line itself was pretty well invisible.
Advice was proffered......
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I'm not any kind of qualified dog trainer, I'm just someone who grew up around multiple dogs. But there's no way I'd use an extendable lead. In my view it would just confuse a dog. It's either on the lead in close contact with its owner or it's not.
My wee dog seems much more at peace off the lead. Much more "reliant" on me strangely enough. It's as if he feels like he doesn't have to think for himself when ( on the very few occasions ) he's on one. Off the lead, he's constantly looking at me to seem to ask what to do next. Might be ( probably is ) selective perception on my part but he gives me the impression that he's more relaxed off the lead. Never, and I really mean never, approaches anyone else without "checking" with me that it's ok and if we're approaching another dog which is on a lead I just give him a verbal reminder to stay close to me. If the other dog is off too I don't bother and just let him socialise.
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As has been said though, the lead will stop your dog running out in the road even if you're not paying attention and even if the dog has a mad moment.
Training when you are not paying attention and the dog has seen a running cat is not a very strong hold.
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Strange question, but how long should a dog lead be?
I am wondering if our lead is maybe just too short for him to feel "trapped"
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>> Strange question, but how long should a dog lead be?
>> I am wondering if our lead is maybe just too short for him to feel
>> "trapped"
My preferred length is 120 to 150cm
I'm sure BBD will have something to say ont he matter
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>> there's no way I'd use an extendable lead
The bane of my life on shared footpaths/cycle tracks.
Can you imagine what it does to a rat small dog when a cyclist hits a lead on one of these things?
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>> The bane of my life on shared footpaths/cycle tracks.
>>
Not a problem round here. No self respecting cyclist will use a wide clear purpose built open cycle path with pristine tarmac, clear markings, no driveways, obstructions or litter when there's a perfectly good 60mph road next to it with heavy traffic on it. Rights, you see.
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>>I wont go near an extending lead. Dangerous ruddy things.
Why's that then? .. we use extendable leads on both of our dawgs when we take them walkies. Tis a very rural area of course - most other dogs we meet are orf-lead I might add. Both dogs pull, even (or more so) on the extending leads, and I know ya'll can't train 'em to heal if they're running ahead in front (and around!) you, but that's okay.
Cody the English pointer gets a good run off-lead a few times per week in an open area ( greened-over China Clay tips!). Beau the Beauceron never comes off-lead because he is creazy-in-the-head plus he eats 'things'!!
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I use one of these BTW for 'the big fella', shouldn't really use 'em with an extending lead, but there ya go.
www.gentleleader.co.uk/
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Our dog can be trusted to stay on our drive and will only go to the end of it if chasing a cat and even then will not go on the road, though it's only a quiet dead end anyway. However he pulls like hell on the way to a walk in the hills or along the river where he can be let off and will come back as soon as called, he then walks quietly alongside us, on the lead. on the way home.
He is very bright and clever though has never learnt that pulling will not get him to where he is let off his lead any quicker.
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I can think of a few dog owners who should be on a lead in public.
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SWM got a painful 'rope burn' between her fingers when one of our late dogs made a run for it, pulling the reel out very quickly.
Glad it wasn't me.
These leads are just a nuisance on caravan sites when the dogs explore under the van and wrap the lead around the jockey wheel and corner steadies.
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If your dog pulls, go for a walk with a walking stick. A very gentle tap on the nose when he pulls... and within 5 minutes he'll never pull again.
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I trained mine with choke chains. Don't see them now, have they been banned?
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>> Howls about:
>>
>> www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Chrome-Prong-Collar-Pinch-Choke-Chain-Stops-Pulling-Dog-Training-9-Sizes-/251795408966
Hows about your missus puts one on you and jerks around a bit. Come back and tell us how nice it was.
They work, but so does beating your dog or shocking it with a cattle prod
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I thought about getting one of those for my Pointer at one time (last year) I would never be cruel to a dog though.
It was just that he was pulling sooooo much my thinking was that he would do damage to his windpipe.
The 'Gentle Leader' sorted 'im out in the end.
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>> I trained mine with choke chains. Don't see them now, have they been banned?
We became civilised.
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>> I trained mine with choke chains. Don't see them now, have they been banned?
>> We became civilised.
I don't see why you should think they're uncivilised. You don't allow the dog to pull continuously on one. If the dog pulls, you allow it some slack, then a short jerk just tightens it briefly.
I did use to see them used as a choke against dogs that were pulling continuously and they had no effect. You don't need to train the dogs, just the owners!
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>> >> I trained mine with choke chains. Don't see them now, have they been banned?
>>
>> >> We became civilised.
>>
>> I don't see why you should think they're uncivilised. You don't allow the dog
>> to pull continuously on one. If the dog pulls, you allow it some slack, then
>> a short jerk just tightens it briefly.
Get the wife to put one on you, then give it a jerk. Then come back and tell me its civilised.
The kennel club have banned them in competitions, its classed as "harsh handling"
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>>Get the wife to put one on you, then give it a jerk. Then come back and tell me its civilised.
OOh, yes please!
;>)
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"Very" late here, but
Law says dog has to be on a lead,
Does it also say that human has to be holding lead ??
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>> "Very" late here, but
>>
>> Law says dog has to be on a lead,
Which law, and where?
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Dagnammit Z, can't find a "law", only .. "under control". so fair point, but,
Smacks of a term used by rule makers who don't understand that dogs are animals, not humans.
When did we last see a border collie get 10/10 on "one man and his dog ?
So what chance do pet owners have ?
I am basically offering sympathy to the dog's owner, but recognising the harsh reality of "business" she may not have a chance, but she certainly has my my sympathy and support, and again apologies for not reading all the comments on this thread, but do you support her, or not ?
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>> When did we last see a border collie get 10/10 on "one man and his
>> dog ?
One man and his dog collies are positively unruly and disobedient.
not like this.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyoVjADqHL8
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Z - just found this - -
" .. It isn't necessary for dogs to be leashed at all times. ""
from the " www.nidirect.gov.uk/ "
website.
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>> Z - just found this - -
>>
>> " .. It isn't necessary for dogs to be leashed at all times. ""
>>
>> from the " www.nidirect.gov.uk/ "
>>
>> website.
Thats what I understood. There is no national "law" about the use of leads, but that your dog had to be "under control"
There are however a myriad of local bylaws some of which have managed to get leads enforced in certain specific areas.
As far as average pet owner goes, No, no-one expects you to have complete 100% control over your dog, which is why the use of leads in risky situations is pure common sense.
And as far as the original situation goes, the woman was unlucky - she had taken the required precautions, and thats why you have insurance. They should pay up.
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I keep my gentle, intelligent, obedient, BUT very excitable dog on her lead absolutely everywhere she could get into "trouble" !
Not necessarily because of "the law", but because i don't want her to come to any harm - just seems like common sense to me.
Agree, - they should pay up.
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>> Which law, and where?
Not sure how up to date it is, but had to use this against someone several years ago who let their dog roam the village without it being on a lead.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/27
Control of dogs on roads.
27.—(1) A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.
Also,
Dog owners have certain responsibilities.
Animals Act 1971, states that the keeper of a dog will be strictly liable for the damage caused by the dog.
The roads and dogs
The Animals Act 1971 provides that owners of animals and those who have control of them have a duty to take reasonable care to see that the animal does not stray onto the road and cause injury or damage.
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>> 27.—(1) A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road
>> without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.
Thats one of the myriad local regulations I mentioned. The "road" or area has to be specified in a bye law.
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Dog insurance query - not on lead - Duncan
