Just reading a thing in the WSJ about deportation in the States made me think.
I have no problem with immigration, in fact I support people living and working anywhere. However, I do think that if one significantly breaks the law of the land one should be deported. Drop kicked across the nearest border in fact.
But I wonder what "significantly breaks" means.
For example, I can be deported permanently from Chile if I light a fire in a CONAF Forest. [Essentially a national park].
Turns out you can be deported from the US for a drink/drive conviction, even if it does not involve an accident or other incident.
So what's the right level?
I tend to think it should be a prison sentence. If what you did warrants such a punishment, it should be next stop through the door.
Though then one wonders about the family. Should wife, children, parents also be forced to leave? What about cousins or friends? If its dependents only, what happens if the villain is not the "breadwinner"?
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Quite easy in the UK. The old "Arrestable Offence" bench-mark. A crime whereby someone could be sentenced to 5 years or more. Used to cover most criminal behaviour. Not unreasonable.
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Does that not also include drink driving? I believe one is arrested for that. Or does that not necessarily make it an Arrestable Offence?
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Are not virtually all crimes arrestable? Surely you are arrested for shoplifting, for example?
And you mean an offense with a maximum prison term of greater than 5 years, or where someone is actually sentenced to more than 5 years?
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrestable_offence
Explains it, also known as general powers of arrest. All changed in around 2007 IIRC
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It was a conditional power of arrest built into the legislation - Theft Act, Criminal Damage Act and Offences Against the Persons Act made no mention of a power of arrest, they were covered by the Arrestable Offence clause.
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Thank you, I didn't realise.
However, the day that the phrase "section 25 provided further powers of arrest for non-arrestable offences" becomes important to aid understanding is the day that common sense and logic fell out the window.
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It did. But it did provide an useful power when Officers were faced with certain situations such as a foreigner committed a non arrestable offence for instance. S24 was little used but an useful "barbed wire act" power.
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London the city of immigrants and crime.Can't see many send home the police will never catch them all if any.
Unless somebody tells me different and London is a city of culture..;)
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Over 200 languages are spoken in Greater London.
London is growing by 100 thousand people a year.
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Immigrants have refreshed the UK over the centuries.
Today it is the Poles, in the past it was the Jewish diaspora.
We have been invaded by Celts. or Romans or Saxons or Normans over the centuries.
Why blame immigrants for the high crime rate in the UK.
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"we" is any UK born citizen.
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So if we delete "we" from your statement and substitute your words we get"
Any UK born citizen have been invaded by Celts. or Romans or Saxons or Normans over the centuries.
Do you think that makes any sort of sense at all Fluffy?
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I admit it does not, however over the centuries immigrants have help power the UK economy.
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Has it?
The UK economy has only existed for just over two centuries. It has not therefore been helped by invading Romans Saxons or Normans.
How did the Norman invasion help the English economy in 1066? All evidence suggests it did exactly the opposite
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Makes me laugh how against immigration some people are.
Clearly open borders don't work anymore but having the right people for the right job is necessary, after all our local youth don't want summer jobs down at the farm any more so workers from Poland, The Czech republic or wherever are welcome to do it.
The National Front or whatever they are called nowadays are idiots when they claim immigrants out. The Royal Family are decedents of immigrants after all.
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You mean the modern capitalist system is around two hundred years old.
Where did the money come from to build Blenheim Palace or Wobern Abbey or Althorp Hall.
The money had to come from somewhere.
It needed some kind of capitalist system to pay for the building and antiques.
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Althorp Hall sits on a 15 thousand acre estate in Northamptonshire.
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>>We have been invaded by Celts. or Romans or Normans over the centuries
I think we can totally blame them for the crime rate. All murderous invading b*********s along with the Vikings.
They certainly didn't visit to do a fair days work for a fair days pay!
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>> b*********s
Wow that's a heavy handed swear filter. It was a noun for someone that serves at a bar.
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Bar stewards are verboten on this forum.
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"Unless somebody tells me different and London is a city of culture..;)"
Really Dutchie! You know who holds that accolade at the moment :)
This was the opening week and there was 3 separate projections onto 3 different building around a square. You had to be there to experience the atmosphere and sounds.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k77mFaRDilQ
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 2 Apr 17 at 12:53
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I liked Hull. I worked there 2 or 3 days a week between 1991-93.
There was a warehouse full of imported second hand furniture for sale down by the river Hull, is it still there? Mainly Dutch stuff I think.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 2 Apr 17 at 13:45
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>> There was a warehouse full of imported second hand furniture for sale down by the
>> river Hull, is it still there?
Yup, they haven't sold a single item in 25 years......
;-)
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If its the same place it was alongside the A63 dual carriageway out of Hull. It was called 'Dutch Imports'. Now called Dutch Imports and Daughters Ltd and moved out of town to Brough.
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>> Though then one wonders about the family. Should wife, children, parents also be forced to
>> leave? What about cousins or friends? If its dependents only, what happens if the villain
>> is not the "breadwinner"?
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It's a principle of our justice system that we target punishment at the whole family, not the individual. That is probably almost inevitable. I suppose the rationale must be that that is part of the agreed deal when you take on a family - for better or worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health. If you prosper, your family are morally entitled to share your riches - if you go to prison, they sink too.
You'd probably have to abolish families and have a communal or kibbitzim society for this to be different. So that said, in our system deporting the whole family would be logical if nothing else.
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Drop kicking them over the nearest border has the advantage of simplicity. The reality is much harder.
We've got it broadly right now. Deportation can be part of sentence with an expectation that it will immediately follow jail.
But there needs to be a system to deal with cases where deportation offends natural justice. Sending an offender back to Oz is one thing sending him back to North Korea is another. Sending a 3yo back after working here for a couple eof years is one thing. Sending back somebody who came here as a child is another.
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Immigrants and crime - R.P.
