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Continuing debate
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 29 Mar 17 at 13:11
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Given yet another poll shock (or more accurately pollster shock) it looks like Corbyn is now a cert for PM.
You heard it here first.
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>> Given yet another poll shock (or more accurately pollster shock) it looks like Corbyn is
>> now a cert for PM.
>> You heard it here first.
>>
UK pollsters overstate Left Wing in 2015 GE by 3-5%
US pollsters overstate Left Wing in 2016 POTUS by c 5%
UK pollsters overstate 2016 Remain vote by 3-5%.
Common factor? All polling companies form part of "the Establishment".
Pollsters do LOTS of adjustments: likelihood of voting being major. Bias in samples being another.#
Get both wrong the same way and they are stuffed.
Anyone who has done any poll responses will know a key question is "How likely is it you will vote?"
and "Did you vote in last election?"
They are there for a purpose...
# Bias in samples:
online voters tend to be young and left wing.
Telephone pollsters in the day tend to be not in full time employment.
Older people tend not to answer online polling or be ex directory. (They vote 60% + rightwing)
Last edited by: madf on Wed 9 Nov 16 at 09:48
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>> Common factor? All polling companies form part of "the Establishment".
I think polling companies also give more weightage to social media. Lots of people have votes (and differing opinions) but they are absent/silent in social media.
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# Bias in samples:
>> online voters tend to be young and left wing.
I don't think that's correct, the online polls in the us election showed a stronger lead for trump than anyone other type of polling. I'm pretty sure it was the same during the referendum.
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> Common factor? All polling companies form part of "the Establishment".
>>
>> Pollsters do LOTS of adjustments: likelihood of voting being major. Bias in samples being another.#
I don't think they are part of the 'establishment' they are businesses offering a service. Its in their interests to get it as accurate as possible, if they don't less people will use their services.
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>>
>> I don't think they are part of the 'establishment' they are businesses offering a service.
>> Its in their interests to get it as accurate as possible, if they don't less
>> people will use their services.
>>
Not "establishment" exactly, but they are new age, and seem to be over-reliant on methods based on modern media, which perhaps biases their sampling.
Their mistake in most recent polls has been to ignore the last-minute effect of a decisive decision by a block of silent people who do not shout a lot online or otherwise register their presence, don't volunteer to take part in surveys, but do occasionally feel moved to turn out and vote for what they would see as commonsense.
If you agree with them you would call them the salt of the earth. If you disagree of course, then they are ignorant old has-beens, so out of touch that they ought to be euthanased.
But they do have a vote, and no one, establishment politicians or pollsters, can be bothered listening to them.
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Not "establishment" exactly, but they are new age, and seem to be over-reliant on methods
>> based on modern media, which perhaps biases their sampling.
Are polling companies new age, i don't know? Anyway the online pools for both the presidential election and the referendum gave an prediction closer to the outcome than more traditional polling methods. It might seem counter intuitive but there it is.
>> Their mistake in most recent polls has been to ignore the last-minute effect of a decisive decision by a block of silent people who do not shout a lot online or otherwise register their presence, don't volunteer to take part in surveys, but do occasionally feel moved to turn out and vote for what they would see as commonsense.
If they don't take part in surveys or polls, don't normally vote, don't involve themselves in politics or express an opinion in politics, then with with the best will in the world no one is going to know what they are thinking or likely to do?
>>
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>>
>> If they don't take part in surveys or polls, don't normally vote, don't involve themselves
>> in politics or express an opinion in politics, then with with the best will in
>> the world no one is going to know what they are thinking or likely to
>> do?
>>
But some people have the knack, or instinct, of sensing it, regardless of polls or market research. It's those who can listen and sense without always waiting for an opportunity to butt in with their own views or interpretation.
Some people, in politics, business, or personal affairs, have the ability to back a hunch or have a dream. You can't explain it with a clipboard and a tick-sheet.
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Paddy Power didn't have 'it'. They paid out £1m in bets 3 weeks ago for a Clinton win. Now they have to pay out £4m to those who voted for Trump.
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>> >> Given yet another poll shock (or more accurately pollster shock)
>>
Mona Chalabi has been telling them for some time where/why/how they go wrong, but they won't listen.
Just look at her twitter feed from last night:
twitter.com/MonaChalabi
and from her article in Guardian today:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/polls-wrong-donald-trump-election
"I have a few ideas about what went wrong. In the four years I’ve spent as a data journalist, I’ve been concerned by how much faith the public has placed in polling. Polling analysts like me knew the numbers were inaccurate before Brexit happened. Despite that, the polling predictions kept coming. Why?
I spent almost two years working for Nate Silver’s website FiveThirtyEight, where I hoped to learn the secrets of political forecasting. I walked away totally disillusioned. It sometimes seemed as though their interpretation of the math wasn’t free from subjective bias. There was also a certain arrogance that comes from being part of an elite that “gets the numbersâ€, and an entrenched hierarchy meant that predictions weren’t properly scrutinized."
Last edited by: BrianByPass on Wed 9 Nov 16 at 10:10
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Polling predictions keep coming because the mainstream media and the public who read them have an insatiable appetite to "know" results before the event happens.
If prediction was easy we would all make a fortune from shares, sporting events etc etc.
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I read the Guardian article above.
Basically it was claptrap. And it was correct as well.
Pollsters HAVE to adjust data: their subjects lie, their subjects are chosen in a way which give bias etc.
BUT when you are looking at a sudden change - like Trump - you have no idea what reality is. You may try to sample what you think are new voters.. but if they are busy and/or work in the country, they may not have time/want to engage..
It's a very difficult job. So they adjust. And the fear of each is if they give a way out answer different from everyone else, they will be remembered for "being wrong". So they all adjust to form a cluster round the same answer. ONLY THE BRAVE GO OUT ON A LIMB.
iF YOU ARE PART OF AN ESTABLISHED GROUP OF POLLSTERS , YOU are THE POLLING ESTABLISHMENT. They will talk to each other about their difficulties in measuring something. Being part of a crowd is safety.. the uUKPOLLSTERS BASICALLY SAID THAT AFTER THE 2015 GE DEBACLE
(Apologies about caps - cold fingers).
It's the herd instinct....
See Jeremy Corbyn.. Labour are not really at 26%. They are wildly popular and gaining council seats by the hundred as a result.. 46% is more likely..
Err,,:-)
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>> I read the Guardian article above.
>> Basically it was claptrap.
>>
Mona Chalabi predicted on TV with Richard Osman three months ago why the polls were getting it wrong and why/how Trump would win:
twitter.com/richardosman/status/796354294534565889?lang=en
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Listend to a Republican pollster saying many Trump followers refused to participate in polling, thus skewing voting analysis to Clinton
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>> If prediction was easy we would all make a fortune from shares, sporting events etc
>> etc.
>>
I don't think so. You wouldn't make a fortune if everyone spotted the winner.
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She has a point regarding free movement of people from East Europe which was encouraged by Cameron at the time.
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>> She has a point regarding free movement of people from East Europe which was encouraged by Cameron at the time.
And Blair - the Poles.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 16 Nov 16 at 12:54
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True, both prime ministers encouraged free movement.
The Poles didn't come here picking their noses,picking fruit and plummers in their spare time.
Hard workers.
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They probably had their share of shirkers too...
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He clearly doesn't really want to join anyway. Using threats like that is hardly likely to endear his application to EU waverers in France and Hungary, for example.
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Turkey is in win-win situation. If they get included in EU/visa free movement, they would let migrants enter EU legally. If not, he would push them illegally.
So illegal migrants will come to Europe anyway. And soon politicians will say "this is new normal and get used to it" (as they say after every terrorist attack nowadays).
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Erdogan is a nutcase he is in a league of his own.
This is a Island wouldn't take much to close the channel tunnel.You let in whoever you want in.
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Fans of Heineken beers including Amstel, Sol and Kingfisher will not be able to find them in Tesco for the foreseeable future after the supermarket refused to accept price increases the brewer blamed on Brexit and the budget.
The supermarket refuses to accept brewer Heineken’s price increases, which it blamed on the weak pound and the budget.
Tesco’s refusal to pay more means it will no longer stock Tiger, Amstel, Sol, Kingfisher, Birra Moretti, Blind Pig Cider, Fosters Gold and Fosters Radler.
It will also stop stocking larger pack sizes for 16 other beer brands including Heineken, Fosters, Strongbow, Kronenbourg 1664, and Newcastle Brown Ale.
The two companies are not expected to reach a compromise agreement over pricing in the near future.
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/22/tesco-sol-amstel-tiger-brexit-heineken-price-increases
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I guess people will see it as Tesco playing hardball to maximise profits but maybe Tesco's should be applauded for sticking up for it's customers. I'd imagine it's profits are similar whatever the wholesale price. I also imagine they have a good idea what the manufacturer margins are and consider that they have enough wiggle room to absorb a price increase.
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>> Tesco's should be applauded for sticking up for it's customers.
I can assure you that ultimately Tesco only thinks of its customers as a source of profit.
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As do most, if not all retailers.
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As a rule of thumb, retail margins are usually substantial whereas wholesale margins are generally not.
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>> As a rule of thumb, retail margins are usually substantial whereas wholesale margins are generally
>> not.
because wholesale volumes are generally much larger than individual retailer deals.
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What about buying Heineken in Morrisons instead.
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>> What about buying Heineken in Morrisons instead.
If it goes the same way that the Unilever spat did (Marmitegate), then hopefully all the other supermarkets will stand up and take on the brewery too.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39393213
I don't blame him at all. He seems a decent sort.
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"He seems a decent sort."
That's the conclusion that I came to having seen him quite frequently on our local eastern t.v. programmes. I clearly recall seeing him being interviewed on the lunchtime news in 2014 about the state of railways in the east; he was on a platform at, ISTR, Clacton station and he was saying that the situation was indeed awful - he knew because he used it every day to get to work. I got the impression that he was a good constituency MP.
I turned to my SiL who was visiting from Australia and said "you know, I reckon he's a decent bloke - rare in a politician - we should have him stuffed and mounted!" ....... and a few days later, it was announced that he'd gone over to UKIP. When DC retained his seat at the resulting by-election, I believe he did so because the people voted for Douglas Carswell their trusted representative, not necessarily the party that he had moved to. What a pity that can't be said about more MPs.
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He was on the radio, Any Questions I think, a month or so ago. He made an intellectual case for Brexit around the EU as a sclerotic organisation which was a drag on our economy. Recognised that we should be doing something now to give confidence to EU workers already here and that a succesful economy would continue to need both skilled and unskilled migrants in future.
While I continue to think we're better in than out at he avoided the sort of sheet the Faragistes churn out.
He's also a libertarian.
I've some time for Dominic Raab on same basis.
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www.itv.com/news/wales/2017-03-24/ukip-access-to-european-single-market-critical-for-welsh-farmers-post-brexit/
For some obscure reason UKIP put up candidates for the Assembly in Wales. Reckless got in. He seems to have gone native !
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Carswell has just quit UKIP.
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He has indeed fluff. See above.
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You realise that the pillock said Carsfield had left, then you told him to see above THEN he started a new thread with the same thing?
Why do you put up with this crap? Has the fool added ANY value, or ANYTHING of interest? Ever?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 25 Mar 17 at 19:35
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Thanks for the compliment.
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"Has the fool added ANY value, or ANYTHING of interest? Ever?"
There is another way of looking at it.
He certainly hasn't made any unpleasant or even mildly critical postings. He has been remarkably patient in putting up with some less than friendly comments. Anyone who has been upset, frustrated or whatever by him has chosen to react in that way - you don't have to get worked up.
The fact that he hasn't gone away and that he hasn't been banned seems to irritate some here -
even, apparently, those who profess to care nothing about what other people say and think.
Last edited by: Focal Point on Sat 25 Mar 17 at 19:48
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>> "Has the fool added ANY value, or ANYTHING of interest? Ever?"
>>
>> There is another way of looking at it.
>>
>> He certainly hasn't made any unpleasant or even mildly critical postings. He has been remarkably
>> patient in putting up with some less than friendly comments. Anyone who has been upset,
>> frustrated or whatever by him has chosen to react in that way - you don't
>> have to get worked up.
>>
>> The fact that he hasn't gone away and that he hasn't been banned seems to
>> irritate some here -
>> even, apparently, those who profess to care nothing about what other people say and
>> think.
>>
His postings are IMHO designed to infuriate and add nothing to this forum. There is no wit in the postings, no insight or rationale. Often he just post meaningless lists or reposts statements about his favourite bands or albums, some of which don't even exist!
He / it / she is a wind up. Could even be a bot given it repetitive nature.
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Leave it to us we're sorting it now.
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I'm with Harleyman on this.
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Is it posslble to say my opinion without having to put up with written abuse.
I do not understand what I am doing wrong.
I am only posting threads to create a debate.
One thing I will do is be careful what I write in some of the threads.
I would like the written abuse about me to stop.
The debate about Carswell quitting UKIP was only for a discussion on an important topic.
One thing I will be careful to do, is create a thread on a topic that has not been discussed.
I am on Car4play for genuine reasons.
I enjoy the debates that take place on this forum site.
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Fluffy - the Carswell post was in the Brexit thread as I pointed out to you, there is no need to start a new thread. Please abide by Moderator advice/instructions. Last word on it now. Not going to ask again.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 25 Mar 17 at 20:51
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Thanks for being honest.
I will be careful what I write.
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Keep it to one post every couple of days at most Think hard whether someone else has posted or indeed you have posted something similar or the same.
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Fluffy,
There is no denying you are a disruptive influence on this forum and are rubbing a lot of people up the wrong way. Whether that is intentional or not, is still being decided.
The moderators of this forum have been patient with you, but there comes a time when a decision has to be made.
Granted I have been less patient with you at times because you have also annoyed me too, more so than the other 2 moderators. Some would say that's because I have a slightly shorter fuse than Smokie and RP (no smutty comments from the back please). So If what I've previously said has upset you, then I apologise.
Bottom line is, if you continue to cause problems for this forum, whether intentional or not, you will leave us no choice but to disable your account. For that I make no apology.
Consider this a yellow card. The next one will be a red one.
Vx_Fan. Car4Play Moderator.
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Without wishing to get into a discussion about what Fluffy's intentions are, I would add just one comment about this "yellow card" - this public warning.
None of Fluffy's comments have come close to the nastiness we have seen in the past from some people here - the personal abuse, condescension and so forth, often sustained; nastiness which went mostly unchecked, and I certainly don't recall anyone being "yellow-carded", much less banned, as a result of it.
It's also a bit rich when such action follows closely upon an anti-Fluffy comment from an individual who has been the author of some pretty unpleasant stuff in the past.
I for one am in favour of the intervention of moderators when it's called for, but let it be consistent.
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I will be careful what I write in future.
I never meant to upset anybody.
For that I apologise.
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>> Without wishing to get into a discussion about what Fluffy's intentions are, I would add
>> just one comment about this "yellow card" - this public warning.
>>
>> None of Fluffy's comments have come close to the nastiness we have seen in the
>> past from some people here
Wot he said
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Absolutely spot on Focal Point, I'm with you all the way on those comments.
The yellow card, and the red card should have been used so many times on a few posters here in the past but of course, those posters were vocal, rude and abusive and difficult to handle, so they have been ignored and allowed to carry on unchecked.
Fluffy who has never been any of those things, but 'irritates' a small minority, get's publicly rebuked.
Wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels.
As with so many things in this life, the baddies are allowed to run the show their way.
They know nothing about Fluffy, only what they have convinced themselves to be right.
Yet they have made a judgement. Even our 'respected' resident Doctor seems to have forgotten his training and failed to take into consideration obvious signs of Fluffy possibly being on the 'autistic spectrum' as others in this thread have mentioned.
Fluffy may not be English, he may well be struggling with a second language and has difficulty finding more words.
He may have learning difficulties but does any of the reasons mean he should be disrespected?
In my opinion Fluffy is just different, but given time and patience and a welcome he deserved from the start, he would by now, probably have felt more confident here and told us more about himself.
But God Forbid we embrace anyone who is different, use a bit of patience or tolerance, that would mean we are all decent human beings.....and as we've seen in the past, we're certainly not.
So Fluffy, take that yellow card, rip it up into little pieces and throw it into the wind to blow away. Say B*llocks to the ones who are downright rude to you and just carry on being you.
So you irritate Mark (FM2R)? Well done mate, he's more than irritated a lot of us in the past and karma comes in many different parcels.
However, I bet I can irritate him enough too for him to get a yellow card, and a red card, in the interests of equality and fairness of course.
But that won't happen, will it?
Some of you need to hang your heads in shame....you know who you are.
Pat
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Damned if we do. Damned if we don't.
Whatever I do is wrong. I'm almost to the point of not actually caring any more though.
Everyone's a critic.
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Thanks Pat for your support.
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>> I bet I can irritate him enough too for him to get a yellow card, and a red card, in the interests of equality and fairness of course.
As you usual you over estimate yourself. But have a go, I dare you. If you think you can.
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Apologies to Fluffy, in a real as opposed to virtual pub this debate would happen while you were in bogs/at bar/having a night off.
This poster is:
(a) A real person who, perhaps because they're on the autistic spectrum, finds nuanced conversation difficult; we should, nay must, be tolerant and either let it go or respond, as best we can, normally
or
(b) whether a subscriber's alter ego, a troll or bot, he is set up to deliberately wind us up and should have their account disabled.
I cannot decide but Mods should have clues from IP address etc.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 25 Mar 17 at 21:30
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Bromp, do you mean that if someone is deliberately winding us up (let's assume for a moment that this can actually be proved) he deserves to have his account disabled, but someone who deliberately puts nasty, personal stuff should not be so sanctioned?
And with Fluffy there's a fair amount of uncertainty as to what we're dealing with, but there's absolutely no uncertainty when someone insults someone else.
I'm just after fairness here, that's all.
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>> Bromp, do you mean that if someone is deliberately winding us up (let's assume for
>> a moment that this can actually be proved) he deserves to have his account disabled,
I was talking about Fluffy and whether he is a real person who struggles to relate or is a wind up engineered to distract etc.
How Mods deal wit.h nasty personal stuff is a different question
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...moderation is a difficult enough job without attempts to moderate the moderators.
Best left to them I think (and ultimately, if you disagree violently enough with the policy on a forum, there are plenty of other forums on the web, with different moderators).
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"...moderation is a difficult enough job without attempts to moderate the moderators."
I do realise the job is a difficult and thankless one, but this isn't the first time the issue of how the forum should deal with unpleasantness has been discussed. My perception is that there has been reluctance to take any action, until now. And I question the thinking behind it.
None of us is actually in a position to moderate the moderators in that we hold no authority over them - we can only appeal to their sense of logic and fairness, and what is in the best interests of the forum.
Of course one can go elsewhere. But that represents giving up on the forum, which is what some have done and others have probably thought about. Not a decision to be taken lightly.
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>>I'm just after fairness here, that's all<<
That will never happen FP.
It's all I've ever wanted both for myself and for anyone else whether I like them or not.
We all deserve to be treated fairly.
But, of course, those who shout the loudest always win.
Bromps options have to be commended, simply for the fact that he's thought about the possibility of option A when so many others have not.
It's forced me to give it some thought and I think Option A is the answer.
Thank goodness a few of us on here have still got some compassion.
Pat
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>> I cannot decide but Mods should have clues from IP address etc.
Easy enough to not give clues to the moderators in terms of IP address, cookies etc. It can't be easy to know who's who on a forum if the individual knows what they are doing.
I have no opinion on whether Fluffy is an alter-ego, a troll or a real person. I just wish they'd just join in discussions if they are real and not just ask questions! Discuss.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 25 Mar 17 at 23:17
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>> I cannot decide but Mods should have clues from IP address etc.
>>
Gosh, this is a real Turing test, isn't it?
Also a major advance for Artificial Intelligence - perhaps the first ever creation of realistic Artificial Unintelligence.
He may be real - I'm inclined to think so, in which case I agree with Pat and Bromptonaut, he should be treated with forbearance and courtesy, but firmly guided if possible.
But if he's an invention, what a breakthrough! What fun!
:)
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>>Why do you put up with this crap? Has the fool added ANY value, or ANYTHING of interest? Ever?<<
So lets get this into perspective.
No FM2R, who over the years has been one of the rudest and most vocally disruptive posters, calls for something to be done about Fluffy who has never been rude to anyone?
Just trying to catch up here and get a picture of what's been going on the last couple of days while I've not been around.
Pat
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>>there are plenty of other forums on the web
Yes, but I have not found another as easy to use.
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Ok, everyone. I am very sorry to have caused so much angst, and I now realise I have probably carried this on too far and for too long.
Its me, I am Fluffy. He is my Altea Ego.
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No I'm fluffy!
Seriously, you're weird.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 26 Mar 17 at 08:34
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I'm Ronnie Pickering.
(*_*)
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>>>Ok, everyone. I am very sorry to have caused so much angst, and I now realise I have >>>probably carried this on too far and for too long.
>>>Its me, I am Fluffy. He is my Altea Ego.
I smell a Fluffy rat here. Zero is usually precise in his postings - his Fluffy and our fluffy differ in capitalisation. (Except when used at the start of a heading or sentence ).
Also last year posted -
" Where does energy come from? - fluffy
I am not Zero.
I am who I said I am. That is fluffy."
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sun 26 Mar 17 at 08:53
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Such outrage, such obsession, yet such tedium.
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>> Such outrage, such obsession, yet such tedium.
FFS will you two get a room!!!!
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Pull your skirt down Simon, your jealousy is showing.
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"Such outrage, such obsession..."
You mean as shown by those who want to shut Fluffy up?
"...such tedium."
I agree.
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Although I suggested that fluffy was Zero some time ago, I am not convinced. Why would he attempt to drive people away from the forum? I am no fan of Zero but I don't think he could be that stupid.
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.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 26 Mar 17 at 09:27
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It is unlike you to be shy Z. :-)
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"I am no fan of Zero but I don't think he could be that stupid."
Stupid, no. But whether he might have other impulses or aspirations I have no idea.
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>> Its me, I am Fluffy. He is my Altea Ego.
>>
I have devised a simple one question test to decide the veracity of that statement.:
What is your favourit album?
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It is also unlike Zero to miss spell Alter ego.
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"It is also unlike Zero to miss spell Alter ego."
But wasn't "Altea Ego" one of his former monikers? (As in Seat Altea, pun on alter.)
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Could be. The test will be if fluffy stops posting.
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.
Last edited by: Dog on Sun 26 Mar 17 at 15:06
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Why have the bottom few messages in this thread disappeared/been hidden? I can think of no reason.
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Blame Dave. He usually gets it in the neck.
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Z posted and I replied. I don't know if another post or other posts were added afterwards.
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I hid it. No real value to any of it and yet again raising stuff about Fluffy, uncalled for. I thought you were previously not happy with the level of moderating.
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"I hid it. No real value to any of it and yet again raising stuff about Fluffy, uncalled for."
Yes - I suppose, although I thought Z's perpetuation of the "I'm really Fluffy" schtick was pretty mild compared with some of the other stuff in the thread, and my comment was pointing out that what he put was a bit of cut-and-paste.
"I thought you were previously not happy with the level of moderating." It was more the lack of fairness that struck me.
So may I take it that, in future, any other comments in a similar vein will also be removed, along with anything else even more unpleasant? You do realise the following still appears in the thread:
"You realise that the pillock said ....?
"Why do you put up with this crap? Has the fool added ANY value, or ANYTHING of interest? Ever?"
And may I suggest that, when posts are removed, the moderator makes a post pointing this out and why? Otherwise, people may not even know it's been done.
By the way, it's clear that if an offensive post is cut, then replies to it will probably have to go as well.
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With such enthusiasm and clearly such concern that things are done how you believe is correct, then perhaps you should offer to join the moderation team? Surely that could only help.
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The best gamekeepers are former poachers, I believe. They have a good understanding of why some people are a***holes.
Last edited by: Focal Point on Mon 27 Mar 17 at 00:32
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>> The best gamekeepers are former poachers, I believe. They have a good understanding of why some people are a***holes.
A little confused. Are you saying that if you became a moderator that you would then be a former a***hole?
You really reckon that'd work? Must be pretty powerful stuff.
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"A little confused. Are you saying that if you became a moderator that you would then be a former a***hole?"
So sorry to hear of your confusion. It's not a happy state to be in. As your brain doesn't seem to be working too well this morning, try this:
The best gamekeepers (=moderators) are former poachers (=objectionable posters).
Poachers (=objectionable posters) have an understanding of people who are a***holes.
Now, does it logically follow that all moderators are former poachers? Does it logically follow that someone who understands people who are a***holes is a moderator? Does the concept of "former a***hole" even come into this?
Still too hard? How about this:
All elephants are mammals.
Therefore all mammals are elephants.
Doesn't stack up, does it?
On second thoughts, why am I even bothering?
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So, even if you're an a***hole, that doesn't mean you would make a good moderator?
That must be disappointing for you.
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>> On second thoughts, why am I even bothering?
>>
...I agree with you on that (on so many levels).....
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>> So may I take it that, in future, any other comments in a similar vein will also be removed.
There would be nothing left for people to read if we started doing that ;)
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I suspected some while ago that there was something peculiar going on regarding Zero.
After a big outbreak of rudeness he suddenly went very quiet - there was even speculation as to whether he had gone completely. But then he returned, in a very chastened mood, making very reasonable, subdued posts - he reminded me of Toad in the concluding chapter " He was indeed a changed Toad".
The original Zero affected to despise punctuation and capitalisation, the current one writes more carefully. I'm sure computer analysis would detect other changes, perhaps confirming they are different people, but perhaps revealing underlying similarities that point to the same authorship.
So my suspicion is that fluffy is real, but that Zero 1, Zero 2 and fluffy are the same person.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Mon 27 Mar 17 at 07:56
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>>The original Zero affected to despise punctuation and capitalisation, the current one writes more carefully
Both Xero and fluffy omit the apostrophe in it's, when it is required.
Just a thought.
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>> >>The original Zero affected to despise punctuation and capitalisation, the current one writes more carefully
>>
>> Both Xero and fluffy omit the apostrophe in it's, when it is required.
>>
>> Just a thought.
Blimey!
That's rich, coming from you.
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>>Blimey! That's rich, coming from you.
The difference is that my Miss Spieling & punktuasion is deliberate.
:o)
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I allways thort it mite bee.
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>> The original Zero affected to despise punctuation and capitalisation, the current one writes more carefully.
>> I'm sure computer analysis would detect other changes, perhaps confirming they are different people, but
>> perhaps revealing underlying similarities that point to the same authorship.
Doesn't he now drive a Volvo?
If so, that would account for everything and more besides.
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>> The original Zero >>
I have been away from this place for more than five years, until two weeks ago, though I can detect that Zero is Zero (named quite tenuously after a Mitzsubishi WWII fighter 'cos he drove a Carisma), previously know as RF and Tourvan as I recall ...
Does he now drive a Volvo? Perhaps a change to Odin or Thor is on the cards ...
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>>cos he drove a Carisma
A chancer in a Lancer actually.
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>>
>> A chancer in a Lancer actually.
>>
Aha, an estate IIRC ...
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>>Aha, an estate IIRC ...
Yup! .. Another forum member had one too. I believe his moniker began with P.
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>>he reminded me of Toad
Ha ha ha. Oh in *so* many ways. Though he's not green.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 27 Mar 17 at 12:22
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"So may I take it that, in future, any other comments in a similar vein will also be removed."
"There would be nothing left for people to read if we started doing that ;)"
If moderators are not going to take moderation seriously, then I don't know where we're heading on this forum. Well, actually, I do: more of the same-old.
"In this site you will be able to discuss all things motoring that you are passionate about. All we ask is that you act in a respectful and courteous manner. We will act to preserve these values..."
Ha.
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OMG, dont you whine on and on.
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Get a sense of humour FP.
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>> Get a sense of humour...
The defence of the bully from time immemorial.
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Well, why don't the mods upset everyone while their at it.....they can sit here in peace then and not have anything to do:)
What a good example of how not to make personal attacks!
Pat
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Vxfan a bully?
You are having a laugh. Not in a million years.
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Of course he isn't a bully. You are being disingenuous.
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I wasn't being disingenuous.
If I misunderstood you then I sincerely apologise. I took your words literally.
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Zero Gravity – the Memoirs of an Amateur Thespian
The idea first occurred to me when I realised that I was at risk of being no longer noticed. Like all lovers of amateur dramatics, I probably over-rate my own talents. My character, let’s call him xxxx, began life on the forum as the man who stands no nonsense. Intelligent and knowledgeable on a number of subjects, I determined to be the supplier of blunt put-downs, corrections and abrasive arguments. As time went by I found myself tempted to push the frontiers of my role to their limits, tempting the moderators to censure me, but then drawing back just enough to avoid having my part ignominiously killed off. That would of course have defeated the purpose of my performance, and killed the fun. I had been tempted to try the demanding part of executing a flounce, but that requires finesse if one is to make a dignified comeback. Also I was a bit needled by another poster’s all-to-acute observation that as we were all actors, flounces were by definition contrivances and not a display of real emotion.
I decided nonetheless to tone down my character, and experiment with playing a more moderate, but yes, I flatter myself, a more astute and nuanced role instead.
Then, to my annoyance, I was I confess riled when this poster retracted his oft-asserted view that all posters were actors, now arguing that on the contrary, their forum personas were in reality simply idealised exaggerations of their real selves.
The shame! I, the greatest amateur actor ever produced by Slough on Thames, denounced as not even an actor at all! But quickly, I saw my opportunity for revenge. I would create a new character, as utterly unlike my alter ego as possible, one that would have everyone alternately angered, bored, resigned, sympathetic, and eventually eager to know the real author. That would show them!
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>> Of course he isn't a bully. You are being disingenuous.
>>
With all due respect M, that's how I understood your post as well
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OK my mistake. I should have been more explicit and added "or on behalf of".
When challenged a bully will often say "can't you take a joke" or "it's only banter".
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No problem, I did think it unlike you.
I do idly wonder what the two green thumbs thought they were agreeing with though.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 27 Mar 17 at 16:59
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>> I do idly wonder what the two green thumbs thought they were agreeing with though.
>>
...I'm not convinced that anyone who uses the green thumbs really cares.....
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>> ...I'm not convinced that anyone who uses the green thumbs really cares.....
My neighbours do, and their lawn looks lovely.
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Am I alone in being totally confused by all of this? I confess that I've completely lost track of who is upset with who, which ones aren't speaking to which other ones, who doubts the veracity of who's identity, who has left, who has come back, who is threatening to leave, who thinks they have been wronged, or who thinks someone else has been wronged. Or indeed who cares. It's all very complicated and I'm absolutely bamboozled by it. I've not been so confused by the relationship dynamics since my son was at primary school and he tried to explain the complexities of the playground there.
I'd just quite like to get back to talking crap about cars mainly. I'm quite good at that. ( I think ) ;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 27 Mar 17 at 17:10
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There's a Motoring Forum for that Humph, had you forgotten?
Pat
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Yes of course you are right, this one is just the talking crap in general bit, I had forgotten. Apologies. ;-)
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Humph, you are unbeatable on the talking crap front. If you got it, flaunt it.
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Why thank you sir. I'm quite touched. ;-)
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And thank you too. Although I prefer "special"...
;-)
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>> Am I alone in being totally confused by all of this? >>
Reckon Zero = Zero and Cliff might be a bit fluffy ...
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I thought I was the only one confused although I have to admit it is pretty much my normal state. Could some one please draw a diagram showing forum relationships, who hates who, who doesn't" believe Fluffy exists, who thinks I need to grow up etc.
Would find it very useful and would be much appreciated.
Thanks in anticipation.
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>> Could be. The test will be if fluffy stops posting.
>>
As fluffy is posting again that test failed. I am off, I may be back if or when the forum returns to sanity.
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And there was me thinking that fluffy was a waste of space, Look what he has managed to achieve. I am in awe.
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Thanks all forum members for your support.
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Referendum Discussion, Brexit, etc - Vol 41 - martin aston
