Daughter's flat is on the top floor of an old house. It has a "complicated" ceiling as parts are in the roof.
She has had wasps coming through a light fitting for the last few days so contacted the management company who have sent in a pest man.
He's been in "for a look" and agrees there is a nest, somewhere over her kitchen. He cannot see well enough into the loft to locate the nest, and he said he can't go up there as it isn't boarded. He has left, while thinking about what to do. (My thinking is they may want to make a hole in her ceiling to reach it)
The question is - is our assumption that the cost of this would be covered by the annual service charge correct, or can my daughter expect a large bill?
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Wouldn't worry too much.
Winter is coming. Unlike bees wasps return to their nests and die this time of year. The only wasp to survive will be the Queen, slightly larger than the rest, who will find somewhere to hibernate for the winter and start a new nest in the spring. They never use the same nest twice and the old nest will be abandoned
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I think that a complete aerosol can of RAID discharged into the loft space thro the light fitting may be a short term solution. But it may flush out some panicking wasps who find other exits to the kitchen, so be prepared to run!
But I agree with CGN that the winter should solve the problem.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Mon 10 Oct 16 at 12:56
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10+ yrs ago we had wasps appearing.
In the loft was a large nest - got a man in £50 and he was dressed like a spacemen.
He said leave it for a week & then bin it.
Large Black refuse sack was not big enough - took the nest down, split it in 2 & then got rid of it.
Still get the odd nest - grapefruit size in the main -
DIY solution
Find the in/out path & puff Ant Killer in the hole - this will cover a few going in/out who will go to the nest & put ant powder at the entrance - job done. Cost = pennies.
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>> he said he can't go up there as it isn't boarded.
Surely he can take a couple of planks into the loft space with him to kneel / walk / stand on?
Of has elf 'n safety really gone that mad.
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Maybe, but on the other hand he may just not fancy balancing on a piece of wood when the wasps spot him.
A big gang of stroppy wasps is scary.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 10 Oct 16 at 13:23
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This is on 2nd floor of large house so they can't access the outside easily. The bloke looked out of the window and said the gutter is in the way of reaching it from indoors.
I reckon the guy couldn't/wouldn't go up to look just because he didn't have time and/or didn't have whatever he needs (boards maybe), we'll see.
But thanks for the tips so far. She can't live there for too long with it. She did get stung twice over the weekend. I've had her tape over the light fitting which seems to be where most are coming into the flat.
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As long as you have blocked up the access to the flat there really is no cause for concern. They will all die as soon as the weather get cold - typically the beginning of November although if the weather is mild in a protected place like a loft they might linger b bit longer.
As long as they can't access the flat they really pose no problem.
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Can she not contact the management company again and ask for someone other than a cowboy to come out?
When one of our neighbours had trouble with wasps, the pest control bloke observed where the wasps were entering an exiting the roof space and had a very long lance with which he pumped in the pesticide powder.
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I think CGN is exactly right. I can't find it, unfortunately, but I read a long article about this topic recently which supported what he is saying. I definitely wouldn't use pesticide, because someone may have to enter the space later for other reasons.
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>> and had a very long lance with which he pumped in the pesticide powder. <<
I had our local pest control chappie out in August for a wasps nest in the roof after finding wasps all over the hall wall and ceiling one morning.
He arrived with the above, aimed it in the hole the wasps were getting in to the roof from and pumped.
He charged £30 and I rent and wouldn't dream of expecting the landlord to pay for that.
Pat
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To be fair the management company won't have seen her email till first thing today and someone was there a bit after 11, albeit in between appointments.
I've taken all advice on board. The problem is she is no use at d-i-y and I am not able to get there to assist.
However, to the original question - will the cost fall to her or will it come from the service charge?
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As a beekeeper I have removed wasps nests in summer.
In autumn they die off. So leave and forget for 3 months is the correct advice.
As for using pesticide, nasty stuff!
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Got stung by an Orientql hornet whole in Greece last month. They pack quite a punch but the pain recedes quit quicky. Mosquitos bites areworse in the long term.
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>will the cost fall to her or will it come from the service charge?
Her, almost certainly.
Although, just as an after thought, is it in a communal area or in a bit that's "hers"? And sorry if I missed it, but does she rent?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 10 Oct 16 at 15:14
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No, she owns and the nest is in the roof above her flat.
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Well I reckon it comes down to ownership. If that attic space is hers to use, then I reckon she'll have to pay. If its part of the communal areas, in the same way as a stairwell for example, then I think it'll be the management company.
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Block up the hole in the light fitting with silicone and then they can't get in.
But the queen will be looking for somewhere handy next year, and even though they don't reuse the old nest the new one may still be in the roof.
In my experience if there is a nest within about 50 yards of you they will still come pestering in the garden or through windows if they smell fruit or jam etc.
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Bloke couldn't be bothered to do it as it would be £100 for a load of faff in a tight roofspace. He went off to kill some mice and charge £100 for a half hour visit.
Hope he didn't charge for his 'visit'.
Get somebody else in.
And is your daughter really so poor that the difference between £100 and £25 (if there are four flats) is enough to be worth not being stung twice during a weekend?
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She is actually pretty hard up, single person, large mortgage, average job. No expensive vices. Car service yesterday £180 needed to be funded short term by us. Though she is (by her own choice) putting a reasonable amount into a private pension.
But the question wasn't really whether she is sufficiently wealthy to pay for it, it was a general query about where the responsibility lay. E.g. as he can't reach the area they could say they need to remove her kitchen ceiling which would be considerably more than what you quote.
I don't know if she's heard back from him.
I found out that because her flat is effectively a loft conversion they cannot reach areas, it wasn't just that he was too lazy or busy. So he can't even be sure where the nest is, which presumably would be a problem for anyone not just him.
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As I understand it the wasps will die out for winter and will not use the same nest next year. However, they may well build a new nest right next to it.
If it is a particularly wasp-welcoming spot in an otherwise wasp-unfriendly place then it may well happen. I'm sure Chilean wasps are different but I can look up and see a line of about 6 nests built one year after another underneath a roof overhang above me.
Consequently I'd probably tough it out for the remainder of this year, especially if ceiling removal is the alternative. But I'd be hunting for the holes and blocking them before next season.
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>> they may well build a new nest right next to it.
That would explain why wasps are seen in the same spot of a nearby hedge year after year.
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>>it was a general query about where the responsibility lay.
My point was that sometimes you need to take your own responsibility.
The wasp-man call-out charge was £100. The cost of administering it by the management company was £50. The call-out charge for the second man is £100, and a further £50 administration fee. Total £300, her share £75.
If she'd done it herself, the first man wouldn't get paid anything as he couldn't be bothered to get up there. And there'd be no administration fee. And it would get done. Take out the light fittings and blast poison into the roof space. Job done.
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I had a wasp nest in a blind roof space, with wasps going in and out of a hole in a porch right by the front door.
No way of knowing exactly where it was, and I could have taken half the house down before I found it, so no point. I puffed ant powder in the hole. Fixed, problem never returned.
I had another one in a tree in the back garden of the same house, discovered while playing "cricket" with my son.
I went up a step ladder with an ant spray, adjusted the nozzle to a jet, and fired some into their front door. Not the way to do it. Very cross wasps. Fell off ladder, ran like fury for the house and slammed the back door behind me with wasps bouncing off it. It did work, however.
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I think the usual ingredient of wasp killer powder in Permethrin. Fairly safe to use but don't get it anywhere near a pond as it is absolutely toxic to fish. Very toxic to cats too.
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>> I think the usual ingredient of wasp killer powder in Permethrin. Fairly safe to use
>> but don't get it anywhere near a pond as it is absolutely toxic to fish.
>> Very toxic to cats too.
It was "Nippon" ant powder. I'm surprised to hear it is toxic to cats as it says on the container that it is indeed permethrin, but also says it can be used indoors and out (which I have) and that "Children and pets need not be excluded from treated areas".
You have me worried now. We did find a dead cat in our garden a few years ago. I dislike cats, especially when they come to poop in the raised beds with the vegetables in, but out of consideration for my ailurophilic neighbours I don't want to poison them.
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Thanks. It seems most cat poisonings are due to people using dog flea treatments that consist of 50%-75% permethrin on cats. The Nippon ant powder apparently is talc, with <0.5% permethrin, which is deemed safe for pets. So I probably didn't kill the neighbour's cat.
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As they say it's all in the dose.
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We had a load of wasps in the extension roof void, we just blocked up where they were getting in and out. Never saw them again.
Seems it's fairly standard that the renter pays for it, although not in every case. It was in the last house we rented, however in this house we don't pay for infestations/pests etc, we just ring up the management company and they sort it out.
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>>ran like fury for the house...........
I'd have been faster.
Being chased by a swarm of something has been a little phobia of mine since I was a child and was chased by a huge swarm of bees.
[probably about 2 bees who just happened to be flying in the direction I was running, but to my young mind; huge swarm / chase].
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>> I had a wasp nest in a blind roof space, with wasps going in and out of a hole in a porch right by the front door.
We had wasps getting into our loft through one of the roof tile soffits. Bloke came along with his long lance, poked it into the soffit and sprayed away. Asked whether it was safe to enter the loft because of the stuff used to kill them, he said "give it a couple of hours for the angry wasps to die and for any powder that escaped the nest to settle"
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>> ... he said "give it a couple of hours for the angry wasps to die and for any powder that escaped the nest to settle"
That casual statement immediately brings Mandy Rice-Davies to mind.
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In France you just go to the supermarket and, for 10-12 euros, buy a powerful aerosol that knocks out a wasp nest when fired from up to 12 feet away. I've used it before, successfully. The one I bought is called 'Fulgator' but other makes are available. Maybe it can be bought on-line? I would be happy to buy one and post it if you like but it could take a while as the UK/France mail isn't anything like as quick or reliable as it used to be.
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Don't think so - that says foam, the one we get is a very powerful and accurate spray hence the fact it can be used from a distance. Maybe it doesn't suit UK health and safety requirements. They can't be different from mainland EU can they? (ducks).
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I have ants burying themselves in the sand under my block paving. Some research shows a mixture of Borax and sugar makes a good ant killer. Only problem is, like sodium chlorate, it is now very difficult to get hold of.It was traditionally used for clothes washing and cleaning.
Have just been on holiday to California and they have boxes of the stuff in supermarkets. Big box obtained and still in my suitcase when collected at Manchester. Result.
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Borax is classed as a reprotoxin. It's ingestion can cause damage to the reproductive system and unborn children and it has been withdrawn from the consumer market.
If you create an ideal environment for ants I.e sand under paving slabs they will move in. They don't really do any harm. I'm always amazed at the automatic reaction people have to kill everything even if it poses no real problem
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>> I'm always amazed at the automatic reaction people have to kill everything even if it poses no real problem
I agree with that - totally.
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>>In France you just go to the supermarket and, for 10-12 euros, buy a powerful aerosol that knocks out a wasp nest when fired from up to 12 feet away
Perhaps worth noting that *hornets*-removal in France is free and is the responsibility of the "Pompiers" (fire brigade). I found this out too late while housesitting in Aix-en-Provence.
The local police had steered me towards a bee keeper although they must have known the rule - just about sums up what I feel about the French police and the residents of Provence.
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Sorry, but removal of hornets' nests hasn't been free or the responsibility of the pompiers for getting on ten years now - unless you happen to be particularly fortunate. The pompiers or the 'Mairie' will just point you in the direction of a beekeeper or specialist pest control operator (I know an excellent one) and you pay the bill. The only exception seems to be if the nest is 'Asian hornets' that might pose a danger to the public.
Maybe that's why do-it-yourself solutions have become popular.
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>> only exception seems to be if the nest is 'Asian hornets' that might pose a
>> danger to the public.
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First one found in UK.
www.gov.uk/government/news/asian-hornet-identified-in-gloucestershire
Work to identify, destroy and remove any nests is already underway, which includes:
-setting up a 3 mile surveillance zone around Tetbury
-opening a local control centre to coordinate the response
-deploying bee inspectors across the area who will use infrared cameras and traps to locate any nests
-readying nest disposal experts who will use pesticides to kill the hornets and destroy any nests
photos
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/giant-killer-asian-hornets-nest-8975603
If you see one, report it
www.nonnativespecies.org/alerts/index.cfm?id=4
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Interesting, eh, the way the UK responds to things?
We get Asian hornets round here at some times of the year, have done for several years. They, as well as 'normal' hornets, don't seem particularly aggressive like wasps and I, certainly, have never been bothered about where they live if they aren't sharing a house with me. They're certainly prettier to look at.
Almost every year bees persist in nesting in a disused chimney at the back of my house. Almost every year hornets turn up at some stage and eat them. Observing nature at work is always interesting, isn't it?
NOTICE: No hornets or (especially) bees suffered in the writing of this post.
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>>removal of hornets' nests hasn't been free or the responsibility of the pompiers for getting on ten years now
My encounter was more like 20 years ago.
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>> >> he said he can't go up there as it isn't boarded.
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>> Surely he can take a couple of planks into the loft space with him to
>> kneel / walk / stand on?
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>> Of has elf 'n safety really gone that mad.
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His company insurers will not pay out if he falls through the ceiling and breaks his back if the roof space was not boarded for access. So, yes it is H&S reasons why he won't go into loft.
If the roof-space is OP's daughters (under the terms of her lease) it is her job to clear wasps, or pay for them to be removed. If the roof-space is not hers, but is the freeholder's then it would be paid for by service charge.
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The "formule" is not given but one I bought in France used pyrethrum, harmless to mammals. It was a giant size and lasted about a decade back home until the gas pressure dropped, although it seemed still to be half full of solution.
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>> The "formule" is not given but one I bought in France used pyrethrum, harmless to
>> mammals.
Not so. Highly toxic to cats. And contained in many dog insecticides. Never use a canine-specific flea product on a cat.
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Thank you for that useful correction.
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It came across rather more tersely than I intended!
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>> It came across rather more tersely than I intended!
That hasn't stopped you in the past ;)
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Wasps nest and flats - CGNorwich
