After nearly a year of searching have finally had offer accepted on a new build bungalow. The only thing it hasn't got that I would like is a wood burner. - It has underfloor heating but I would like the cosiness of a stove.
The house is modern in style - open plan and I want a contemporary looking stove. Any recommendations and things I need to know. There is no firelplace in the house but the builder tells me it won't be a problem installing one with a chimney through th external wall.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 27 Sep 16 at 19:11
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Woodburners give off much much hotter fumes (smoke?) than an ordinary fire. The chimney / flue must be suitable, which I *think* means lined.
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There is no chimney so it will need a double skinned flue I understand
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Yes, double skinned flue required - you also need to be careful where it is vs the stud work if it's timber framed. If where you are buying is in a smoke control zone, then you will need a DEFRA approved stove. Plenty of modern looking designs available these days - tend to start more expensive than 'traditional' looking ones - and the sky is the limit virtually! Don't be tempted to go too big - in a modern well insulated house, it will be easy to get the room that hot you can't sit in it! Wants to be under 5kW anyway, or you will need an external air supply. Can't remember in England, it might be notifiable to Building Control. Also should check there isn't a covanent on the house, or a planning restriction preventing a chimney - or indeed that Planning permission is required for a chimney. A local installer should be up on the regulations in force.
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That's useful info. Yes I don't need anything too powerful. Estate agent has given me the name of a rccomended local supplier. Really have no idea about these things but I think the room needs some sort of focus and have always like the idea of a wood burner.
How much do you think the fuel would cost for the occasional fire in the depths of winter?
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>How much do you think the fuel would cost for the occasional fire in the depths of winter?
Depends on what you mean by occasional but mine is virtually nothing. A tractor trailer full of logs from the local farmer sets me back about £50 and that's more than a winter's worth. [Though to be fair the last time was 3 years ago]
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We've got a Cove 1 from Charnwood ( www.charnwood.com/range/stove/cove-1.aspx ) which is 4kW nominal. I'd guess we get through maybe 2m3 a winter using it most evenings. Price depends on local availability, I tend to find / scavenge most of mine, but i think it's £50-£100 a m3 bag. Hard wood required of course..... if you want to have a small fire, then split the wood down small - if the bits are too big you just can't get enough heat in the fire to keep it going! It's all an excuse to buy axes and chainsaws :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 27 Sep 16 at 23:29
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>> I think the room needs some sort of focus and have always like the idea
>> of a wood burner.
>>
>> How much do you think the fuel would cost for the occasional fire in the
>> depths of winter?
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>>
Next to nothing, depending on how active you are.
Yes, a focus is good, but be aware that a dead fire with the ash still there from last night is a bit depressing. It can easily become an anti-focus - reproachfully reminding you how dead the room is without the fire.
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This is our multi-fuel stove, bought on-line last year and installed by a local builder who is a registered installer.
m.flickr.com/#/photos/43576259@N04/24184916036/
Tis made of steel whereas the old one was cast iron. Steel heats up quicker but also loses its heat quicker.
Cast iron stoves can be more ornate/decorative and I like that.
Here's a few contemporary stoves for you to peruse:
www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Contemporary-Designer-stoves.html
Our stove is an 8kw jobbie, which gets as hot (or not) as you want it to get, in other words it's very controllable.
This cottage has 3ft thick granite walls + low ceilings (cottagey) so the stove warms the entire 3 bed cott and, although there is a Grant external oil boiler here + 8 rads, I've never had to use it in the 5 years we've lived here (strange but true)
The memsahib will have to run round with the feather duster more often, due to the dust, but that's a small price to pay for the cosiness of a stove in The Black Season, as my late friend used to call it.
I used to burn Taybrite smokeless fuel, but there's a lot of ash with that to dispose of.
I'm burning wood with the new stove - Ash if I can get it, and then the ash can go on the borders.
You've seen my log store: m.flickr.com/#/photos/43576259@N04/20345368138/
That was mostly Beech, although it was sold to me as Ash :)
A stainless steel flue can be installed to just about any property really. Best to speak to a local installer about regs. Stoves on Line are very helpful if you drop 'em an email.
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Why wood burner & not multi fuel burner? I have a Morso Badger.
I scavenge wood whilst out dog walking, and get one load delivered per year, supposedly seasoned, but leave in t'log store another year.
Mostly I burn coal. Seems to burn hotter than logs & cheap enough when bought in summer, although I'm spending less time in the uk during winter months now.
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I have a log burner out in my "man shed" so can't really help re the technical aspects of it for inside a house.
However re wood, one you have a stove you will suddenly become aware of countless free supplies. OK I am less fussy about the quality of wood but if you check gumtree etc you can quite often get free logs that have been chopped down and owner just wants them taken away. Or contact a few local gardeners / tree surgeon type people who take them down.
Or just wait for the next strong winds and get out into the forests with a chainsaw!
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We have a big log-burning grate in the other room. In here though, next to the electric heater, is our pretty little blue-enamelled French stove, with a chimney attached that looks much too big for it.
It will burn anything - coal, smokeless or wood. I don't use it often though. It's finicky getting wood small enough to feed it, and the coal/smokeless solution provides too much heat if you aren't very, very careful. Any draught at all and it tries to melt itself.
Anyway, one isn't often cold what with one thing and another. A blessing at my age.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 28 Sep 16 at 00:06
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Only envisage burning wood. Aren't wood burners more efficient for that fuel than multi-fuel stoves?
It's not going to be the sole heating source so really more interested in getting something that looks good with a nice stack of logs next to it rather than maximising heat output.
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We also have a multi-fuel Morso Squirrel. We find a mix of solid fuel and wood works best for us. Just wood seems to need replenishing every five minutes, and doesn't really get that hot, whereas solid fuel last for hours, and a log on top every so often gives the flame.
When we decided to put it in, coming up on twenty years ago, the fireplace cost us £3000 (there was already the chimney but madam wanted a new surround and hearth, and inevitably being very old it all had to be brought up to snuff to meet regulations).
Then we had a liner put in, 25 year life thing, £1200.
Then the stove in those days was about £600. Had to replace a couple of bits over the years, so perhaps £150 in maintenance.
Sweep comes about once every two years for us, as we don't use it all the time by any means, and he charged at last count £50 a chimney. We have an open fire in the other room, which is also lovely, but yes, we doubled all the setup costs above, other than the stove...
So it was a bit expensive to set up for us. Funnily enough, it's actually this chimney that I'm about to have remedial works done on, so there's another bill coming. Anyway.
As to burning wood, we've never been able to scavenge any. No trees in Cambridgeshire, never mind forests! There's lots of stuff like free palettes, but there's also lots of online warnings about making sure wood isn't green, and doesn't contain paints/varnish/other chemical stuff that is illegal to burn and rots your liner and makes your stove explode. I can't be doing with sorting out the nonsense from the reality with that all that, so we buy seasoned logs, at about £120 a load, which lasts a couple of winters at our rate of burn. Smokeless fuel costs us perhaps £200 a load in bags, and that lasts a winter, perhaps a winter and a half.
Finding nice logs of a wood that you like at a price you can be comfortable with from a local supplier can be a bit of a muddle, but once you're sorted, it's excellent in the winter evenings. As ours isn't in the same room as the tv, it's a great place to draw up a chair and dive into your latest book, ideally with buttered crumpets. Which isn't any kind of euphemism.
Go for it.
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If you are going to sit logs next to your fire (as in Dog's 'photo) don't forget to leave a "goodly" gap between fire and logs! - a mate of mine has found (on more than one occasion) that they have a tendency to dry-out and start smouldering! - a very real fire risk! ;-)
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>>If you are going to sit logs next to your fire (as in Dog's 'photo) don't forget to leave a "goodly" gap between fire and logs!
Been there, done that, AND worn the fire blanket!
(*_*)
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Jotul make excellent stoves, judging from the two of their (now-discontinued model) solid fuel stoves we had, one at home and an identical one in our narrow boat. Both would happily burn wood though of course rather fast. From their performance, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Jotul wood burner, if you like the designs.
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I'm with Crankie on this... My house was built in '98 and I moved in one year later. Awful white Adam style fire surround & living flame gas fire. I managed to sell both to someone with a buy to let, capped the gas, then a friend built me a fantastic stone fireplace. Even when the stove has gone out, the fireplace radiates heat. Large protruding stone lintel to display 'stuff' ( empty bottles, the odd ceramic piece) and I love sitting in front of it on a winters night, lights dimmed, with buttered crumpet to hand.
The buttered crumpet loves the atmosphere as well. And the luxurious feel of the wool rug.
And that IS a euphemism
Snigger....
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 28 Sep 16 at 16:23
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Yes I was anticipating buying the logs. Don't know any friendly farmers with forests and not sure Iwant to go scavenging. How on earth do you get a tree you find in a wood back home?
Is the kiln dried stuff worth the premium?
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We are fortunate in living in a wooded area, so logs are just the hassle of sawing them up and chucking them in the woodshed where there is a big, unstable pile of slightly damp wood that I often have to climb up to get at the good bits.
Balance and general athleticism a very long way past their best. I am haunted by images of slipping and breaking some stupid little bone. So far so good however.
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Just got a stash of kiln-dried birch from these guys which will last the winter in my main home (open fire used rarely) and the weekend cottage (used a lot).
www.biohot.co.uk/firewood-logs/36-large-nets-of-kiln-dried-birch-logs/
I buy them in early September while they have a 'pre-season' promotion and pay just over £200 for about 600kg.
Far superior to seasoned logs (or the kiln-dried ones from the likes of B&Q)
Never any spitting/sparking, and give out a pleasant birch aroma.
They advertise them as 18% max moisture but have seen a couple of reviews suggesting they are actually under 10%.
Nowhere near as hot as a coal fire, but hardly any ash, and I clean my own chimneys with a rodding set + brush every couple of years.
If I was using them as serious heat I'd have a stove fitted but both properties have central heating so the fires are more for ambience and because I like fires...
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The quality of kiln dried logs can be hit and miss. The suppliers claim figures of less than 20% moisture which is where you want to be. The less moisture the better burn and less soot. The reality regarding moisture content can be different to that claimed.
The best thing is to have a log store or two and try and get your logs to dry naturally over two years. This sometimes is not an option so buy from a reputable supplier. I have a feeling that logs supplied during the winter are not subject to as good a kiln dry as during times of less demand.
Try not to burn pine as is can create a lot of soot and build up of gunge in the chimney which can catch fire if chimney sweeping is not carried out regularly.
We are on our second stove now. Switched from multi fuel to wood only. Whilst I like the wood only I do tend to have to keep feeding the beast. It takes a bit of starting. You have to get some heat into it with kindling to get the looks to ignite and burn properly.
As for fitting we have a recessed hearth and had the traditional fire surround. But with the new more modern looking stove I ditched the fireplace and just have the bare wall and it looks good.
It is possible, if no fireplace is fitted to sit the stove on slabs and then have the flue pipe out the wall and the attached to the house. So no chimley needed. For me the more flue in your room the more heat radiated into the room so more efficient.
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I've got two woodburners; a home-made one in the kitchen/diner which came with the house, ugly but very efficient and a Villager in the main living-room.
Woodburners are often touted as a cheaper alternative but if you're buying your wood they quite simply aren't, since rising popularity has pushed up the price of fuel. It also costs a lot more to have one fitted than used to be the case since they nowadays have to be professionally installed.
Fullchat is right on the money here. I have a wood store, and I also have farmer friends who are glad for me to go along and do their coppicing for them in return for the wood. That however takes up a lot of my free time, and of course requires the purchase and maintenance of a chainsaw, plus all the safety paraphenalia to go with it. I also have a van which can tow a big trailer; in short I'm tooled up for it, and if you aren't then running a wood-burner ain't cheap.
it's also said down here that wood warms you four times; when you cut it down, when you cut it up, when you stack it and finally when you burn it. There is much truth in that, but it is also good exercise!
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Not envisaging gathering my own wood. Intend tend to purchase the stuff and I accept that the stuff isn't cheap. Not really looking to save money and the existing gas fired wet system underfloor heating is all that we really need but rather looking for that feeling of cosiness that comes with a real fire.
Certainly not cheap though. Around £1,000 to £2,000 for the stove and the installation of a chimney is going to double that at least so not rushing into anything.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 1 Oct 16 at 12:10
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Underfloor heating is great for felines, but hell on a human's feet.
I disliked it when I lived in a flat fitted with it.
Stinky, sweaty, hot trotters.
Last edited by: Roger. on Sat 1 Oct 16 at 12:46
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Perhaps more of a problem with your feet than the heating? :-)
I guess in a flat it would have been an electrical system which run at a much higher temperature than wet systems.
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In the club lounge on the Stranraer ( well, Cairnryan in truth ) to Belfast ferry, you can sit in front of a large flat video screen which shows a film of an in turn, imitation wood burning fire. There's another screen above it to watch the telly.
Annoys me a bit, shouldn't I suppose, but it does. Who wants to watch a video of a fire, especially when it's a video of an imitation fire when they're sitting on a ferry?
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You might have saved me ££££££££££s!
I'll run it by Mrs G
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My mate has just moved into fitting them, reckons it's (really good) money for old rope. Whacking great mark ups on the kit, so busy he could work 7 days a week fitting them.
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I guess there are cowboys in every trade.
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I think you'd be right there are, but he's not one of the them.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 1 Oct 16 at 19:49
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I'm sure he's not but I would worry about employing any tradesman who thinks his work is "money for old rope". I'm always prepare to pay a fair rate for a job but I rather like to think that they believe that their skills and knowledge justify the price.
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Well they all think they're worth what they get paid ;) (depending on the customer)
He was surprised at how much many people are prepared to pay for them. He worked in an engineering job before, it's simpler work and better money, hence the phrase.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 1 Oct 16 at 20:30
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>>
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>> it's also said down here that wood warms you four times; when you cut it
>> down, when you cut it up, when you stack it and finally when you burn
>> it.
>>
And fifthly when you clear out the ash and carry it down the garden to wherever you dump it.
My wife would add sixthly: when she has to get the duster and hoover out to clear up the mess a real fire makes in the house.
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>> My wife would add sixthly: when she has to get the duster and hoover out
>> to clear up the mess a real fire makes in the house.
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Yeah; funny how wimmen are so much more adept at reducing the contents of the log store than adding to it though, ain't it?
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Had mine now 4 years this year & the only reason I got one was the supply of free fuel, Plenty about if you look for it from skips and builders waste.
Do your research on the size you need for your room ie: if the online calculator for the room says 5kw then that should take it to 20c is this enough?
I wanted hotter mine is a tad too hot at times 9kw but we leave the living room door open the heat goes upstairs, Or i'm sat in my underpants sweating lol.
Only burn seasoned wood & check it with a moisture meter look for readings below 25% they say mine come in around 17% as I dry mine at least 12 months before the burn.
Soft wood & builders timber burns hot but quickly yet if you have a massive free supply don't panic throw it on just you may be up a little often, Hard wood logs burn for longer but at first getting used to what does what is interesting!
Kindling I use pallet wood and split it use this not the painted ones, Plenty of pallets about and the blocks are fine but not the compressed glues ones.
Enjoy it you will love the heat output far nicer feeling than a gas fire and if its free look at cheaper bills the year after.
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>> Enjoy it you will love the heat output far nicer feeling than a gas fire
>> and if its free look at cheaper bills the year after.
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We've got a small one in the cottage. It cost about £250 and I put it in myself.
In the house we only have log fires. There is a Rayburn in the kitchen where we mostly live, running a few downstairs radiators, hot water, and cooking. If we move into the sitting room we light the open fire. Very occasionally we light a fire in another room, but have never actually used the bedroom fireplaces.
Wood is free or scavenged. When I used to live in Wandsworth I got wood from skips for the open fire. Going out at night scavenging I met an interesting community of fellow scavengers/dumpers. We exchanged wants, and passed on tips. I remember one man looking for bricks, and someone else asking if I wanted a washing machine for spares before he heaved it into someone else's skip. I could have had a whole staircase if I'd happened to need one. I restored the house with nice period doors someone else was throwing out.
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I have read that actually kilo for kilo softwood and hardwood have identical heat outputs. Litre for litre hard wood is of course superior.
The bungalow I am buying is open plan so not sure what output I am looking for. Especially since it has underfloor central heating Intend to visit shop this week. They do a free survey.
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A caveat about scrap/recycled wood. Tanalised timber as used in garden fences, decking etc releases arcenical compounds when burned so not only will fumes be potentially toxic (or to be strictly accurate more toxic than normal) but so will the ash, which of course many use in their gardens.
Avoid it, particularly on open fires.
Edit; mis-spelt to avoid censorship!
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sun 2 Oct 16 at 10:22
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Found this handy guide:-)
Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year.
Chestnut's only good, they say,
If for long 'tis laid away.
But Ash new or Ash old
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.
Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last.
It is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E ' en the very flames are cold.
But Ash green or Ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown.
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke
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I like that. But no mention of oak, or apple, which is supposed to be the best and sweetest-smelling of all.
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Antone else get the feeling these things might be a five minute wonder?
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>> Antone else get the feeling these things might be a five minute wonder?
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Not considering they've been around since mediaeval times. ;)
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>> Not considering they've been around since mediaeval times. ;)
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Indeed, but they seem to be the "Thing to have" at the moment. My neighbour has just set up as an installer so good luck to him if it lasts.
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>> Indeed, but they seem to be the "Thing to have" at the moment. My neighbour
>> has just set up as an installer so good luck to him if it lasts.
>>
I think it was started off by a combination of the following;
1) Fears of a fuel crisis after the oil/gas price hikes of a few years ago.
2) Escape to the Country and various other lifestyle TV shows.
3) The perception that burning wood is a sustainable option. This of course only works till you've cut all the trees down.
As I said above, recent legislative changes regarding installation and maintenance have bumped the costs up, as has the rise in commodity prices which has obviously made them more expensive to produce. I think they may continue to be "trendy" for a while yet though.
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>> Antone else get the feeling these things might be a five minute wonder?
>>
I think it's inevitable, fashions always change. Who knows what we'll think of them in 25 years time?
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>> >> Anyone else get the feeling these things might be a five minute wonder?
Yes fire is one of those passing fads. My Neanderthal chum (who went extinct) said woolly mammoth skins were the way to keep warm.
The latest idea back at the cave is something called "the wheel". Ludicrous!
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Some interesting info here regarding logs. From mammary, I found oak to be difficult to burn, tis best to mix it with another wood, like ash.
Be nice to get hold of some cherry wood logs for (is it still ok to mention Christmas in this country) Christ's Mass.
www.thestoveyard.com/what-wood-to-burn
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>(is it still ok
>> to mention Christmas in this country
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It is, but not this early.
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Not a new fad always wanted that roaring fire the " real " flame and living in a old house with the original fireplace it seemed ideal.
Looked at the open fire route first liked the aesthetics of the Victorian look but the downside there very uneconomicle to run, most of the heat goes up the chimney and when not in use the room heat is sucked through the chimney leaving cooler rooms.
The stove was the far better option this Villager is steel body heats up faster yet cools quickly but that met the needs. flat top can cook on the surface if needed and done it for a laugh, the other reason was the supply of free fuel at a time when gas prices were stupid there not that cheap now.
All in I wouldn't be without it even though at times it's a bit messy of fiddly the flame on a cold night is a cracking sight to see. 😀
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Pig ugly. And a flagon of cider next to the stove?
Not spotted any Cmas stuff in the shops in Bodrum whilst walking through these past few days.
Might extend my stay ( subject to flight alterations) then suffer the repercussions of Cmas tatt when I return home
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If I put my telly next to the 8kw stove when he's burning Taybrite, the thing would pretty soon melt, which would be most unfortunate because my wife wouldn't be able to watch 'Strictly' ;)
But wait ... the stove in that barn conversion is a LPG gas 'coal effect burner'.
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>> This is how not to install a wood burner (2nd pic)
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>> www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55296130.html
>>
if you think that's bad look at the last pic of the outside. Wouldn't like to be his chimney sweep.
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Agree that it is ugly but is there an argument that since the pipe will get hot, then the more pipe there is in the room, the more heat is emitted??
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>>Agree that it is ugly but is there an argument that since the pipe will get hot, then the more pipe there is in the room, the more heat is emitted??
Tis probably double skinned (twin wall)
www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Double-skin-insulated-flue.html
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>>It is, but not this early.
I take it my learned friend hasn't been round the shops lately ... (perish the thought!)
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It's sad but most of the Ash trees in the country are doomed to die from disease over the next few years but I suppose that means there will be a lot good firewood about
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We have a Jotul stove in our house, and very good it is too.
Bear in mind your new-build will be well insulated and the heat given by a wood-burner might be too much, unless it is a really cold day. You will also need to allow for combustion air to enter your new well-sealed house if the fire is to burn well. That will mean putting a hole in one of your nicely insulated walls.
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All these problems are sortable quite easily.
1) Draught up chimney - you need a closeable flap for when the fire's not in use
2) Air supply - very important both for the fire to burn properly, for the room not to get stuffy from lack of oxygen, and most importantly, you don't die of carbon monoxide poisoning.
We notice this even with an open fire in an old draughty house with rattly sash windows - there are sliding vents in the floor each side of the hearth to open if the room gets too stuffy. In a modern sealed house you would certainly need an air supply. You need the entry point close to the fire or you create a nasty draught across your feet.
3) Flue insulation. The usual system is an uninsulated flue for the first section from stove to wall or ceiling, because then you get the benefit of heat into the room. But after that, as the flue passes up to the roof or outside, you have double-skinned to minimise heat loss but also to keep it cool to prevent fire risk to floor joists etc.
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As regards air flow, I once saw an installation in a Cornish farmhouse conversion, where a mini-tunnel delivered air from outside to a grill just under the inlet of a stove, avoiding the need for internal provision. Both stove and tunnel could be closed off completely if needed.
I don't think anyone has mentioned the need for a CO monitor in the room.
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I'm always surprised to ho few people have a CO monitor. Essential if you have a woodburner or any gas burning appliance. You can get one for under £20.
I understand the ventilation requirement for a wood burner of a new "airtight" home is a vent approx the size of 50p piece for every Kw the fire is rated. Cannot be capable of being closed and must be sighted not easily blocked. Some fires can be directly vented to the outside so avoiding need for a separate vent in the room.
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>>I don't think anyone has mentioned the need for a CO monitor in the room.
Don't forget the need for a CO monitor in the room ;)
I set my CO monitor orf once after emptying the ashes (which were still hot) into a galvanised bucket and leaving 'em on the hearth. They are very, very noisy - tis enough the wake the, um, dead!
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Good to hear it did its job. This couple and their dog would still be alive if they had had one in the boat
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-36606918
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Absolutely awful, and not an isolated case of course. I'm familiar with carbon dioxide, and what it can do, from my car engine tuning days, being that was the main gas I measured back then before the 4 gas analysers became the norm.
In your case CG, I'd be inclined to have a look at the mains gas or LPG stoves, like the one in that barn conversion.
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I'm familiar with carbon dioxide, and
>> what it can do,
>>
It is not poisonous, although it can kill by suffocation if it has replaced oxygen, or simply consumed all the available oxygen. It causes the stuffy room sensation.
Old rusted storage tanks are notoriously dangerous to enter, because the rusting depletes the oxygen.
Carbon monoxide is another matter - very toxic, causes brain damage if not actual death, and most dangerously, is largely undetectable by humans until it is too late.
Hence the need for detectors.
Carbon monoxide is produced by incomplete combustion, carbon dioxide is the desirable end product of complete combustion, which then of course needs venting up a chimney, exhaust pipe or flue.
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Duh! - I meant carbon monoxide :)
We had a gas coal-effect fire in the lounge at our last property. It was never serviced during the 5 years we lived there. I used to 'fiddle about' with it, replacing the thermocouple etc.
The property was built in 1935 and the air bricks had been sealed up years ago. When it got really cold, we used to close the lounge door and turn the flames up. We would both doze orf within no time at all!!
Fortunately, the chimney had a good draught and someone had told me how to carry out a smoke test:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnWz93Jfajs
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>>the air bricks had been sealed up years ago
I hope the new tenant didn't have trouble with rot. When our house was foam-insulated, the workmen had just left and I was chatting with a man working on a rot-prevention type job next door. He said a lot of his firm's work came from dealing with the results of blocked air bricks and advised me to check mine had not been sealed by the foam. They had, and I poked them all free. No trouble for the last 40 years or so.
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S'funny how properties are well insulated and double glazed then peops wonder why they get black mould on their walls. This cottage used to suffer from it before I applied a proper combination of heat AND ventilation.
I've seen some quite awful black mould behind kitchen units and fitted bedroom units - mainly in properties which had cavity wall insulation (see Jeff Howell.!!)
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Exactly Dog! - no mould or such-like in these Olde-draughty dens! - mind you we used to have Salmon running up the walls! they were quite damp!! most of them have dried out over the last few years, but we still have two that need a "fettle"!
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>> I've seen some quite awful black mould behind kitchen units and fitted bedroom units -
>> mainly in properties which had cavity wall insulation (see Jeff Howell.!!)
Intrigued by that Dog. I'd understood cavity wall insulation (done properly) to reduce condensation related mold. Insulation reduces heat loss via the inner wall which is then warmer and less prone to condensation.
Ventilation helps too though. Black mold only appeared in our old place after it was hermetically sealed by Everest. The OEM wooden windows admitted ample drafts.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 4 Oct 16 at 11:41
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You wouldn't believe the amount of black mould I've seen behind kitchen and bedroom units Brompt.
I reckon the previous occupants simply never allowed any ventilation into the properties at all.
The uPVC windows never had trickle vents fitted either..
I'd be very, very wary about buying any older property which had cavity wall insulation installed - unless it was of fairly recent build. The cavity is there for a very good reason.
Maybe the latest materials used perform better?
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/advice/12092979/Jeff-Howell-cavity-wall-crisis-continues.html
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>> I'd understood cavity wall insulation (done properly) to reduce condensation related mold.
What it allows, potentially, is for rainwater to pass through the cavity into the house. Hence water ingress.
Moreover, a wet wall has very poor insulating qualities.
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It is not poisonous, although it can kill by suffocation if it has replaced oxygen, or simply consumed all the available oxygen. It causes the stuffy room sensation.
Old rusted storage tanks are notoriously dangerous to enter, because the rusting depletes the oxygen.
Indeed, the thing is, your blood carries the CO in preference to the nice Oxygen. So yes, you think the room is stuffy if you are awake - but if you are asleep, that's it, you never wake up again.
CO is also marginally heavier than Oxygen and that is why a expired but still hot barbecue in a tent can be a killer. If you had a camp bed, you'd stand a better chance than on the floor.
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"Indeed, the thing is, your blood carries the CO in preference to the nice Oxygen. So yes, you think the room is stuffy if you are awake - but if you are asleep, that's it, you never wake up again."
The binding of carbon monoxide to haemoglobin is irreversible so your blood loses the ability to carry oxygen to the tissues and brain and its Goodnight Vienna.
Suffocation by nitrogen or other inert gases is interesting. When you experience choking in an oxygen depleted atmosphere and are unable to breathe it is not the lack of oxygen that causes the choking feeling it but the build up of CO2. if you a in a pure nitrogen atmosphere you will still be able to expel the CO2 and the body does not think there is anything wrong. It does not detect the lack of oxygen and you die quickly but peacefully.
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>>The binding of carbon monoxide to haemoglobin is irreversible
It's not, it just takes a long time to unbind - 6 hours in air, an hour in pure oxygen.
Hyperbaric oxygen can drop it to half an hour or so.
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Those thermometers that you stick on the chimney flu are quite accurate. Get the temp up to the burn zone starting at 140 deg C and the logs will burn well. Let it drop much below and a lot smokey smouldering takes place.
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Yup - I have a Stovax flue thermometer, and I do use it for that purpose. Another must have, in my case at least, is a flue damper:
www.ebay.co.uk/gds/What-is-a-Flue-Damper-Why-and-How-I-Would-Fit-One-/10000000001449931/g.html
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I stand corrected. Irreversible was clearly the wrong word. The haemoglobin bond wth carbon monoxides is just much much stronger than the bond that with oxygen
Isn't the hyperbaric oxygen treatment regarded as controversial?
As someone who is slightly claustrophobic the idea of dozing off in front of the gas fire and coming to locked into a decompression chamber is the stuff of nightmares!
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>>
>> As someone who is slightly claustrophobic the idea of dozing off in front of the
>> gas fire and coming to locked into a decompression chamber is the stuff of nightmares!
>>
Me to, but rather more than slightly.
Perhaps we should carry cards "Not to be decompressed".
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I tried sitting in a hyperbaric chamber once as my son, a former professional diver and paramedic, worked part time on two associated with our general hospital. He spent many hours inside them with a doctor, attending to patients. The thought of being in the company of the pass-round toilet facility was enough to put me off. The technique is thought to help with all sorts of conditions and his experience ranged from cancer victims to a poor sailor who legs were cut off by a steel cable during berthing. There were many cases of bends as ours is a popular area for amateur divers.
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>>Isn't the hyperbaric oxygen treatment regarded as controversial?
There's a lack of study evidence, not least because trying to make a solid randomised control trial between atmospheric O2 and hyperbaric O2 isn't easy, with numbers that are fairly small to make a robust conclusion.
The science is sound - higher O2 pressures/concentrations will displace CO faster.
The practicality may be less so: transporting a poisoned/disorientated patients 20-30minutes so they can get hyperbaric oxygen may add unnecessary and unwelcome complications.
I'd imagine the best plan would be immediate 100% O2, and if a hyperbaric chamber just happens to be there then pop 'em in it.
>>coming to locked into a decompression chamber is the stuff of nightmares!
I'm no fan of being entombed but the biggies aren't that bad:
www.danintranet.org/storymedia/3674.gif
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Gosh, I hadn't pictured them being that size,
But it's the knowing the door is sealed shut that does it for me. But obviously that's the point of the thing.
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I am not claustrophobic, but my Mother is.
It could be the size of a football stadium but if its enclosed and the door is locked, or she cannot see the open door, then all hell breaks loose.
Thank the Lord she's never needed an MRI Scan because I'm really not sure what we would do.
Phobias are terrible things to live with; the genuine ones I mean.
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at least you can see out!
60 minutes in an MRI scanner are hard going. The latest are better than they were 15 years ago, but still challenging. Why they bother with a choice of music is beyoond me - you can hear nothing!
Apparently a surprisingly high percentage of people panic or need sedating - or so I was told when being thanked for being a model subject :) I still think the best improvement would be a clock projected within your vision.
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There is such a thing as an upright MRI scanner. Might be worth paying for.
www.uprightmri.co.uk
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>> There is such a thing as an upright MRI scanner. Might be worth paying for.
>>
>>
>> www.uprightmri.co.uk
>>
It certainly would. Apparently " In our scanners you can sit or stand and even be accompanied by a relative or friend whilst you are being scanned."
A few years ago I was booked for a precautionary MRI scan and completely flunked it. Simply reaching the department door and reading the sign set me off in a total panic. I tried to run out of the hospital, got lost in a maze of corridors, blundered into wards, and finally reached open air in a state where I thought I was going to collapse.
And that was just imagination - I hadn't even seen the thing, let lone been incarcerated with the lid screwed down.
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>>60 minutes in an MRI scanner are hard going.
"MRI scan is a painless procedure that lasts 15 to 90 minutes"
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/MRI-scan/Pages/How-is-it-performed.aspx
Stuff that, I'll stick with me little bottles of white pills containing absolutely nothing at all (similia similibus curentur)
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Seeing a realistic-looking electric coal/log effect fire on the idiots lantern yesterday reminded me of this thread.
These electric stoves cost as much as a proper multi fuel stove believe it or not (minus the installation) but then they are cast-iron stoves made by a pucker stove manufacturer (Broseley. And very nice they are too.
www.fireplacemegastore.co.uk/electric-stoves
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Wood burner - No FM2R
