Next week we were supposed to be having a decorator in. Today we started to clear the room. On moving a bookcase, the plaster behind it was bulging, and poking it made it fall off. It's like wet sand, and basically fell off over a wide area. There's a smell of damp, and bits of black rotten wood appear to be in amongst the bricks.
Evidently this is a problem. I am resigned to it being thousands to fix, so I need to know how to best go about that.
Do I need a surveyor, and if so, how do I find one? Google has already taken me to websites saying don't think about using anything but a member of the PCA and then to other sites saying not to touch the PCA. I know I don't want some bloke at random telling me I have rising damp and doing thousands of pounds of worthless work, but I don't know how to avoid this.
What might a good plan be? Do I need a chartered surveyor? Is that an appropriate thing? And then what, a contractor? And again, how does one find reliable trustworthy people?
You can tell I'm way out of my comfort zone with this one.
|
|
Could you post some pics of the area - internal and external.
|
Yes, you need a chartered surveyor. But then I would say that, as a chartered surveyor...
Specifically a chartered building surveyor is what you need. Can't diagnose any more than that, I'm afraid without more details and photos.
|
Do I need a surveyor, and if so, how do I find one? Google has already taken me to websites saying don't think about using anything but a member of the PCA and then to other sites saying not to touch the PCA.
Professional Cricketers Association... The mind boggles :o)
|
You need to find and solve the source of damp as well as correcting the damage.
Do you know a builder you trust or have excellent recommendations for? Perhaps he could recommend a couple of surveyors for you to pick from.
Also, in my area, the local County Conservation people had a list, another place to try.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 22 Sep 16 at 23:05
|
I'm definitely no expert but is there not an obvious source of damp e.g. a chimney or maybe an overflow outside which is continually dribbling (assuming this is an outside wall...)?
Try the Checkatrade website for recommendations for professionals in your area. They have to pay quit a few hundred to be in there and you can see peoples comments.
www.checkatrade.com/
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 22 Sep 16 at 23:16
|
Not sure I'd trust Checkatrade at all. There have been plenty of complaints about shoddy work, unreliable workmen and dodgy reviews.
I would go only with a personal recommendation.
|
Thanks for the thoughts, all. I think this is one of those "make a plan, execute it one step at a time" situations.
So I'll make a few calls today and see what I can set up.
I don't really know the cause, although I have a suspicion it might be something to do with the chimeny, which is on that wall immediately above it. It;s on an end wall, so no guttering above it.
I'll probably try to find a "chartered building surveyor", as helpfully labelled upthread, because I want a proper diagnosis and solution.
I guess it will be somewhere between "there's a leak in the chimney, fix that and wait for it to dry" and "that whole end wall needs rebuilding".
|
|
Forgot to add to my summation - I'll try to get a pic or two sorted this weekend. Pesky dayjob in the way again...
|
|
If it's an old house like this one,(built without damp-courses) then apart from re-building the entire wall with a damp course, all you can do is "hide it!" behind a false -wall or dry line it, and live with it! like wot we had to do! ;-)
|
But if it's coming down the chimney then something can be done. F-i-l had that in his bungalow.
Couldn't you inject a damp course? ISTR having to have that done on my first ever house (Victorian terraced) many years ago before the mortgage company would advance the dosh.
If you just hid it, wouldn't it smell after a bit?
|
|
We had it injected first - did didley squat to cure the problem, so we gritted our teeth and had a false-wall put up, can't smell the damp even four years later, hopefully it'll see us two out. If we had more "luka" spare we probably would have looked at different options, but at the time that's all we could afford to spend on the problem, at least we're happy enough with it! ;-)
|
>>Couldn't you inject a damp course?
Welcome to the 1970s! Doesn't work.
More realistically the water is coming from somewhere and has nowhere to go. Fix one of these problems and you have solved the problem.
How is it getting in? Chimney breast? Broken gutter? Leaking pipe? Solve that and you solve the problem. If you can't, then the problem is how are you preventing it from getting out. Most likely it is gypsum plaster preventing it from getting out. Replaster with lime plaster and the water will come through the wall into the room, so you won't have a damp wall any longer.
Don't put that bookcase back, as it's preventing water from evaporating from the wall.
Put in an open fire and use it, as the significant airflow through the room and up the chimney will take the moisture with it.
|
|
It's worth googling the Daily Telegraphs building columnist, Jeff Howell, for his advice on damp. Obviously it's not definitive to the OP's specific problem but he writes a lot of sense and reading there may suggest some ways forward.
|
First things first:
Is the wall wet outside from leaking or overflowing gutters or downpipe?
Has soil been banked up too high, raising the ground level?
Is there rendering on the outside - is it intact?
Does the house suffer from condensation? Is there adequate ventilation in the affected area?
What kind of floor is it - solid?
Common culprits are;
a) garden changes to border level
b) leaks etc
c) failed render?
d) cement render instead of lime mortar
e) concrete floor with damp proof membrane instead of breathable lime mortar.
f) water or condensation down an open or blocked chimney
|
"Couldn't you inject a damp course?
Welcome to the 1970s! Doesn't work."
In my first owned house, there was rising damp and no damp-proof course. We had one injected and it worked. Plaster was hacked off and redone in a strip about one meter up from the floor. Redecorated and all was fine.
However, Crankcase's problem won't be rising damp - it's probably water ingress from somewhere near roof level. It may be something to do with the chimney. Maybe some flashing has failed (roof/chimney). Without something visual we can't tell - someone may have to get up close to see.
|
I agree with everything said so far except getting a surveyor - with our help you can identify the cause yourself.
A couple of things:
The damp was only noticed when you moved the furniture. Clearly the wall in that location was not adequately ventilated. Not returning the furniture will likely help a lot in itself, but remember, even when any source of damp is removed it can take months for masonry / plaster to dry out.
Is it an exposed wall, i.e. does it get driving rain ? Is it a cavity wall wall ? Has anything changed in that area recently such as new paving, new neighbours, blocking up the fireplace ?
Go outside when its raining and take a good look - you might see water dripping off the roof, gutter or chimney.
|
= = > with our help you can identify the cause yourself.
I'm with ^this Geezer.
|
>> = = > with our help you can identify the cause yourself.
>>
>> I'm with ^this Geezer.
>>
Absolutely agreed. Don't go to anyone with a financial interest in having any work done.
In particular don't believe anyone who mentions rising damp. It has been largely debunked as a racket promoted by chemical companies. Damp doesn't rise - it is driven by inadvertent or inappropriate ground levels, or failure to let traditional floors breathe.
|
|
Wot, so it does rise after all? :-)
|
Take a look at this information:
www.heritage-house.org/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html
This extract gives a flavour:
"I teach Dutch architectural students at college, and they fall about laughing when we talk about what they call our 'Quaint English Custom' of damp courses and injection damp proofing. Sounds funny, but this is serious stuff - we are being defrauded to the tune of hundreds of millions a year, by chemical companies selling useless, fraudulent treatment.
In America they don't have a damp industry. Try walking the streets of New York. You won't see a single injection hole. When I describe what the damp industry does in this country, friends of mine in the States who are surveyors and conservation experts just howl with laughter."
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate II on Fri 23 Sep 16 at 18:02
|
That's actually pretty outrageous then, for years the lenders have been conniving with their surveyors and forcing you into unnecessary and costly work. I feel I have been mis-sold.
Something really should be done about it.
I can't be bothered though... :-) but I will bear it in mind for a future pub conversation...
|
If you wish to forward me more detailed information and plenty of pictures of a suitable quality, both internal and external I will have a go at sorting the likely problem with you. Don't be shy though at giving me the whole story, work done by you and previous incumbents also. Direction of offending wall etc. Type of heating and ventilation in the property.
Some useful comments in this thread, but also some tosh too.
|
Just to add my twopennyworth about 'Surveyors' . In my industry they are regarded with disdain in quite a lot of situations. £150.00 per hour PLUS and are rarely (never) prepared to hang their hat on the line preferring to advise you to seek the opinion of an expert (yes their words) in a particular subject that they think they've identified a problem with, thereby protecting their precious Professional (sic) indemnity insurance.
The last one I was involved with was only insured to climb to a height of 3m!!!
|
|
Very kind offer, MD - builder man has looked now (see long boring reply elsewhere in this thread), so hopefully progress.
|
>> Just to add my twopennyworth about 'Surveyors' . In my industry they are regarded with
>> disdain in quite a lot of situations. £150.00 per hour PLUS and are rarely (never)
>> prepared to hang their hat on the line preferring to advise you to seek the
>> opinion of an expert (yes their words) in a particular subject that they think they've
>> identified a problem with, thereby protecting their precious Professional (sic) indemnity >> >> insurance.
So where does the man in the street go for honest reliable advice? Our son has a problem with damp. He is not a practical type of chap and will need to find a reliable person to advise him of the best way forward. Having rubbished surveyors and dampproofing companies, where do we go from here? I'm no expert, plus I'm literally 1000 miles away.
|
>>>So where does the man in the street go for honest reliable advice? Our son has a problem with damp. He is not a practical type of chap and will need to find a reliable person to advise him of the best way forward. Having rubbished surveyors and dampproofing companies, where do we go from here? I'm no expert, plus I'm literally 1000 miles away.
Ask. I won't bite. I don't make very much at this 'game' because I refuse to bull**it people, it's that simple. The real problem I have and this is genuine, is that I will identify any number of possible causes, then attempt to whittle them down, (if the problem isn't blindingly obvious). However a large number of people then assume for some bizarre reason that 'I'm at it'. Some folk just can't compute, love to have an easy out then moan like eff when nothing works and their funds have been depleted.
It's not a science. It just takes a bit of scratching, thinking outside of the obvious sometimes and taking a measured view. I'm usually correct (if the Client can manage to provide any relevant info sought). You'd be amazed at the number that can't!
You, not your Son, can get me via the mods if you wish and we can go from there.
|
Hi mods, I'd like to follow up MD's kind offer, could you please put me in touch with him. TIA.
I've sent your email address to MD for him to contact you (using email addresses in your profiles, hope they're correct!). smokie @ 10:32 28/9
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 28 Sep 16 at 10:34
|
FWIW I'd take MD's advice. Knows what he's doing with this stuff.
Usually wrong about anything *not* to do with building though.
|
Have a look at periodproperty,co.uk forum.
There are lots of people discussing similar problems, and expert advice.
|
|
Find a reoutable damproofing company in your area and see if they do free surveys.
|
|
Ignore Maltrap's advice with respect.
|
|
Obviously - ask a damp proof business and you can guess their answer.
|
Right.
First, many thanks to all for the advice.
Course of action was:
Spoke to decorator to postpone the job. Decorator recommended "honest reliable and trustworthy" builder to have a squizz. I trust decorator, so accepted.
Builder came out and we got access to neighbour's drive. Identified two issues.
One is chimney - it was "fixed" about five years ago after a leak. You could see from the ground the pointing was failing - gaps etc. He inspected up a ladder and reported they had slapped on some mastic, and it needs sorting properly. Also there is a concrete fillet that has given way, an some tiles are broken around it. None of this is surprising, nor do I disbelieve him, and what I can see through binoculars supports it.
Second, and likely the major cause, is indeed that the neighbour's concrete driveway butts against our house wall, at a heigh over the damp course if there was one, which we don;t think there is anyway.
At some point n the past, who knows when, a half hearted attempt was made to dig a small trench in their concrete (aka french drain), but it only extends a few feet, and is full of soil.
We agreed therefore, for a quote for fixing the chimney and clearing, deepening and extending the french drain the whole length of the wall as required to make a proper job of it. Chimney leak may or may not be contributing to this issue but it's right over the damp area anyway, so I intend to get it sorted while I have the chance.
Scaffolding will be required.
Betting on final quote now open. I have no idea, and remember this is Cambridge.
|
>> At some point n the past, who knows when, a half hearted attempt was made
>> to dig a small trench in their concrete (aka french drain), but it only extends
>> a few feet, and is full of soil.
>>
>> We agreed therefore, for a quote for fixing the chimney and clearing, deepening and extending
>> the french drain the whole length of the wall as required to make a proper
>> job of it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_drain
|
>>Betting on final quote now open. I have no idea, and remember this is Cambridge.
c£1000 in Cornwall - including scaffolding [neighb had very similar work carried out only last week]
Suggest it may cost a few shekels more in Cambridge.
8-)
|
"Suggest it may cost a few shekels more in Cambridge."
I did not realise that 'a shekel' is a multiplication function. :)
|
|
I think you'll have a small amount of change from £1900 for the lot, including the chimney and scaffold (assuming one company/bloke does the whole shebang)
|
>> "Suggest it may cost a few shekels more in Cambridge."
>>
>> I did not realise that 'a shekel' is a multiplication function. :)
>>
Cult Bagel Western - "For a few shekels more".
|
Is the chimney in use? Do you have a fire at the bottom of it? If not you may wish to consider some form of cowl which still allows the chimney to breath but keeps the rain out.
www.toolstation.com/shop/Heating/d230/Flues+%26+Cowls/sd3145/Colt+Top+2/p64773
|
It's in use, lined properly, and this one has a woodburner. So actually used only in winter.
Chimneys (all four of them in this house) have appropriate cowlings too. But no good to me if rain gets in via duff bits and runs down the inside of the chimney, of course.
|
Some interesting 'stuff' here about leaking chimneys. Neighb has had similar probs with 'water ingress' which I've actually seen in her inglenook.
Supposedly fixed a number of time by various ex spurts, the most recent of whom appears to have carried out the work properly, hence the 1000 notes it cost her (watch this space)
www.askjeff.co.uk/leaking-chimney-stack/
|
Ze quote, she has arrived.
£1550, not including any work inside the house, if remedial works are needed, nor the cost of replastering.
So be it.
|
Morning.
Does he intend to do all of the work alluded to in your post of the 26th instant?
|
Hi MD,
That price covers all the chimney work and all the french drain work, as well as the scaffolding hire.
It doesn't include anything that might need doing in the house (not really known until a bit of floor lifted, but he thinks at first glance nothing much to be done), nor the cost of replastering where the wet stuff was, which someone else will do anyway.
|
Question:
If as suggested on here, that we use Lime mortar instead of cement and plaster, to allow the wall to breathe and dry-out, what form of wall-covering would you suggest? - obviously emulsion/vinyl paint would be out, would paste/paper smother it as well?
(We have another slightly damp wall that we were considering "hiding" next time we decorate, but having read this thread am now considering "knocking-off" and doing the wall in Lime)
|
Hi Crankcase,
Initially that sounds like a reasonable deal. Very reasonable in fact. Let us know how it goes if you would. I do not wish this to sound like I am trying to be clever, but the French drain (Land drain) needs to exhaust somewhere otherwise it is just a soakaway (or not)!
The (possible) downside with French, Land, Soakaways etc., is that they also 'attract' water from their neighbouring ground so nothing, EVER, can be ruled out.
It has been known to be hand digging a 5ft deep foundation (we have done 12ft by hand) and for it to remain perfectly dry other than surface seepage. Then...........for an inadvertent cut to say square up a 'rounded' trench base corner and then watch water #iss in at an alarming rate.
There are no guarantees with excavation.
BTW. The 12ft job was to form a foundation for a single skin, i.e. Half brick wall, single storey garage in Hatch End. The original subsided, it was the subject of an insurance claim which was honoured. The Building Inspector on the rebuild 'spotted' a particular root that caught his attention and made us go to the depth previously mentioned. Happy days.
|
12 ft foundation?
Surely it would have been cheaper to pile and beam?
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Thu 29 Sep 16 at 06:34
|
>> 12 ft foundation?
>>
>> Surely it would have been cheaper to pile and beam?
>>
Not at the rate we used to dig!
|
|
More change from the £1900 than I thought. Except if you need plastering that'll be £200 - £300.
|
Damp wall advice - Dog
