Do we really want to get into bed with EDF?
blogs.ft.com/nick-butler/2016/05/14/edfs-real-problem-is-flamanville-not-hinkley-point
My French rag has been highlighting the company's problems for several weeks. It seems that two other reactor vessels ("cuves") have shown the weakness found at Flamanville, which plant is 6 years delayed and 7 bn. Euros over budget.
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Link needs registration.
Bit late for that isn't it? They were just about to sign the contracts. More worrying is the rate they've agreed to pay for the generated electricity - much more than the current retail price IIRC.
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It will cost far more than the projected thirty one billion and it won't be ready on time. You can guarantee that.
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>>Link needs registration.
My apologies, but how?
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This one does seem very controversial, especially compared to the one in Cumbria. That's doesn't get any coverage despite being a similar sized project. Perhaps we should build the hinkley point reactor on the same plans.
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>>Perhaps we should build the hinkley point reactor on the same plans.
Or the same place - keep 'em away from the sou'west, knowlemean.
;-)
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It wants me to be an FT subscriber...
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>> It will cost far more than the projected thirty one billion and it won't be
>> ready on time. You can guarantee that.
>>
Just like that other vanity project - HS2.
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>>Link needs registration.
I now see what you mean. It is strange that the link does not work here, when the full article can be read from Google without registration.
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It looks as if the Flamanville project could be halted anyway, as Sarkozy has threatened to do this if he gets in at the next presidential election.
There has been a lot of opposition in France to the contract but I fear we have now given them more ammunition in their "Perfide Albion!" campaign (never mind that we have usually found Marianne to be perfidious).
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High speed trains are a good thing. Ash ford to London is no 30 odd minutes instead of 1 hour 20! Faster trains mean more capacity on the line and potentially less cars on the road!
The cost needs to come down though, I was quoted over £400 for a day return from the south coast to Manchester recently! Flying would have have cost £120!
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>> The cost needs to come down though, I was quoted over £400 for a day
>> return from the south coast to Manchester recently! Flying would have have cost £120!
>>
I recommend thetrainline.com I bet you can get tickets for a fraction of £400.
www.thetrainline.com/
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>>Trianline
Thanks! Tried that but it was just as expensive as I knew about the trip only the day before and it was peak time travel!
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Just like that other vanity project - HS2.
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I think it's a good idea, tbh we should have done it years ago. Probably should have built HS3 first though.
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It is a bit strange to cancel the project now.We can't go back to coal.Windpower and solar is part of the future.
I don't know much about nuclear but it has it advantages or not?
The Germans have cancelled all building of nuclear powerstations and I believe are inporting from the Easter block(Electricity) Strange paradox there they use outdated powerstations polluting everybody in sight.>:)
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Why can't we go back to coal? Why not put the investment into Clean Coal Technology and provide jobs in mining again? It doesn't have to mean going back to the conditions of the 19th century. Britain could be Great again...
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Because ultimately people's good intentions go hammering out the window if it involves work, effort or additional expenditure.
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I agree coal is finished, here in Yorkshire there are three big seams they will be there forever.
Just read a story about a massive solar panel field in Morocco.They be exporting electricity soon if possible.Then there is Fracking which the Americans are moving into big time.I'm not sure if it is right for the UK.
There are some really clever people working on all kinds of energy extraction for the future.
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Electricity in some areas of Chile is free because of the excess of solar panels.
The lack of an effective grid prevents natuonal balancing.
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Current UK government, for ideological reasons, prefers private financing of Hinkley, even if that meant Chinese and French state supported companies providing the finance for the £20bn or so cost of the project spread over 10 years.
On the other hand, UK government is/was quite content to spend £8bn net (£19bn gross) per year on EU membership, or £11bn a year on foreign aid.
Sensible decison in the minds of those subscribe to such political ideology.
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>> On the other hand, UK government is/was quite content to spend £8bn net (£19bn gross)
>> per year on EU membership, or £11bn a year on foreign aid.
Apples/Pears comparison alert.
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>> Apples/Pears comparison alert.
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Apples & Pears - both priced in real UK pounds sterling that the UK taxpayer ends up paying.
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Brian, PPI is not limited to the current government or ideology, or even uniquely to the Tories. Both main parties have actively encouraged PPI, for the past 20 years or so I believe.
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>> Brian, PPI is not limited to the current government or ideology, or even uniquely to
>> the Tories. Both main parties have actively encouraged PPI, for the past 20 years or
>> so I believe.
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I think you mean PFI.
Also I think you are confusing state projects (NHS, schools, roads, etc.) vs private sector funding. In case it has escaped your notice, power stations are not state owned - entirely for ideological reasons.
As a Tory and a Brexitier, I would rather a Tory government gave a loan to the private sector build our future power stations instead of asking the Chinese to fund it by taking a direct stake in the project. Theresa May and Philip Hammond may knock heads together at the Treasury and decide to do just do that.
Taking £2bn a year cut out of the foreign aid budget should do it. Remember that the £11bn foreign aid is funded by debt, the UK borrows money to hand it out!
www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
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Where does the foreign aid budget go to? I wouldn't punish the people who will suffer most from cuts.Unless it is all a con.
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Mrs May seems to have identified the security risks of involving the Chinese in this project, but was over-ruled by Osborne before she became Prime Minister.
The Chinese have a record of hacking into the Pentagon, and stealing commercial and military designs.They have no respect for IP.
It is not good enough for Xi Jinping to say the Chinese Govt is not involved in hacking,it's a play on words, the military have been identified as responsible,and are under Govt control.
If the Israelis ( and US) could wreck Iranian uranium centrifuges using stuxnet, how much easier would it be for the Chinese to insert code into Hinkley from the inside as contractors?
In my view there is no way the Chinese should be given access to any UK utility projects.
They could not only shut down the National Grid, but engineer a Chernobyl type incident.
In addition, as posters above have noted, the Flammanville design seems to be highly unsatisfactory anyway.
The Chinese don't like losing face, and will bluster and threaten, if excluded.
Tough.
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Welcome back infrequent poster (Strodie).
I am not sure the involvement of China in Hinkley Point and HS2 are a good thing. If we don't have the means to fund these projects... maybe they shouldn't happen or at least get delayed.
I can see we need Hinkley Point C ASAP though from a power supply perspective. Got to keep those plug-in hybrids and electric cars rolling.
As an aside... I think the Passat GTE is available to order soon. About £34k including the grant all the tax payers must fund.
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Thank you.
I read most days, although post infrequently,as any comments I make seem to stop a thread in it's tracks.
Let me know any you want to see off and I will oblige.
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Don't worry Stroudie, it's a talent only a very select few of us have;)
Pat
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>In my view there is no way the Chinese should be given access to any UK utility projects.
You do realise don't you that BT uses Huawei kit for much of their infrastructure? If Huawie have built backdoors into their kit they could shutdown just about all of the UK's online comms any time they want. Shopping, banking - the works.
To banish Chinese manufacturers from "..any UK utility projects" is now impossible in any practical sense. We'd have problems building a digital egg-timer in the UK without Chinese sourced components never mind a nuclear power station.
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Kevin, It is well known that Huawei, ZTE, and other Chinese manufacturers have deliberately installed malware into phones which would allow them to spy on usage,take phones over, or disrupt networks.
Huawei is Chinese Govt controlled, and all Chinese Co's have final allegiance to Govt, rather than consumers.
Their actions are malicious and hostile.
Fortunately Western cyber experts are continually working to protect us, and presumably,also working against China and Russia.
The loss of £6bn in Chinese investment in Hinkley, and more in other projects, would be a small price to pay compared to the potential future risks.
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If you want to ban Chinese involvement in any UK utility projects then you might want to start preparing for a return to the stone age because as I said above:
We'd have problems building a digital egg-timer in the UK without Chinese sourced components never mind a nuclear power station.
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>>>We'd have problems building a digital egg-timer in the UK without Chinese sourced components never mind a nuclear power station.<<<
Maybe we should have a referendum?
Simple striaght vote - Should we have a french built/chinese financed nuclear power station at Hinkley? YES/NO
:)
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Wed 3 Aug 16 at 19:56
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It really needs an "or"
As in
...or would you prefer unreliable power supplies.
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...is that an "or"?
;-)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Wed 3 Aug 16 at 22:44
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Hinkley Point - smokie
