Just heard a garbled Chilean news bulletin about a shooting in a German shopping mall.
Nothing obvious on Google, anybody heard anything?
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On the BBC 6 pm news now, breaking news, multiple deaths.
Last edited by: Old Sundodger on Fri 22 Jul 16 at 18:15
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BBC -
Olympia mall in Munich. Multiple shooters, public transport and metro underground stopped. Ongoing situation.
Last edited by: Old Sundodger on Fri 22 Jul 16 at 18:28
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Scumbag b******s may they rot in hell.
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When's this sort of thing going to end.... probably never. Another terrible day.
Makes you glad you're or those you know are not caught up in events like this. But around this time two years ago I was in Munich and went to that area at the weekend. Two years too early so to speak. I was also at the World Trade Center two years to the day before they were brought down.
These sort of events were unheard of when I was at these places. Two attacks in Bavaria in the same week.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 22 Jul 16 at 19:48
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>> When's this sort of thing going to end....
It is shocking. So the newspapers and other media get their panties all twisted up over it, we are shocked, the terrorists are satisfied.
With time it becomes boring, it doesn't sell newspapers or advertising space, the media untwist their panties, life goes on, the terrorists become disillusioned and ultimately, having lost all the glory, hero worship and attention, they try negotiation to salvage some position.
Ask the IRA.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 22 Jul 16 at 20:12
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Today is the 5th anniversary of the Anders Breivick attack and murders. I hope the is no connection?
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Does it matter Zippo? Who can divine the intentions of squalid murderous nutters?
Why is FMR going on and on about panties? In Northern Ireland we call them troysrrrrs.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 22 Jul 16 at 20:34
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Update for No FM -
Sky News -
At least five dead, three gunmen on the loose.
Last edited by: Old Sundodger on Fri 22 Jul 16 at 20:50
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3 gunmen and only 5 dead. Small mercies and all that.
Thanks for the news. Chilean news works on the basis that its only reported in detail if it is corrupt, has large breasts, or acts on a soap opera.
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Six confirmed dead, some injured. Police moved in from from Austria to assist. BBC reporting that the German police say no indications of an Islamic link.
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Newsflash across the bottom of my BBC news screen says the opposite - "Munich shootings being treated as "suspected terrorism", police say"
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>> Newsflash across the bottom of my BBC news screen says the opposite - "Munich shootings
>> being treated as "suspected terrorism", police say"
>>
There is a difference between terrorism and Islamic links.
Now eight dead.
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The German police are reporting a ninth death. The Czech police are reinforcing the border with germany.
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City's in lockdown...no public transport. Taxi drivers are asked not to pick up anybody who wants to go into town. City residents operating an 'open house' system for people who can't get home.
Possibility on the news that it could be an extreme right wing gang........neo Nazis ?
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Sky is saying that the shooter was complaining about growing up on benefits. Sounds like it could be a home grown terrorist.
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>> Another Islamic terrorism.
Other than fact Iran=Islam where's the evidence?
Remember that ISIS is rooted in the Shia/Sunni schism?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 23 Jul 16 at 08:21
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The news link says
Witnesses said that the shopping centre gunman screamed 'I'm German' and 'Allahu Akbar' before shooting.
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>> The news link says
>>
>> Witnesses said that the shopping centre gunman screamed 'I'm German' and 'Allahu Akbar' before shooting.
Other links, less prone to alarmism than the Mail, don't mention Allah Akbar but make more of shooters background in Germany. Looks much more like a lone wolf with mental health issues of type seen in US and occasionally UK.
May or may not be significant but attack coincides with anniversary of Brehvik's massacre in Norway.
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Other links, less prone to alarmism than the Mail, don't mention Allah Akbar but make
>> more of shooters background in Germany.
It was also mentioned in the bbc live updates.
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It doesn't really matter whose terrorism it is - it has reached the point where any terrorism or lone act by a nutter, extreme left, extreme right, extreme islam, all serve the same purpose of any group who care to claim the credit.
It all puts pressure on governments and people to "do something", so when at some point a slightly more moderate group emerges in charge of a world trouble spot, we thankfully begin negotiations, and gradually the extremists become respectable.
Northern Ireland, Cyprus, Kenya, Palestine, etc.
They all get to dine with Queen in the end.
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Like it or not, the time has come to arm all Police. Of course prior to that the idiots that get oh so self important when they don the uniform need wheedling out first! Before the naysayers start I am fully aware that arming plod alone will not provide an answer to these continuing atrocities, but I'd rather have a bit of a chance in those circs than none at all. Just my op'.
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>>Arm the police
That works so well in the USA!?
Last edited by: zippy on Sat 23 Jul 16 at 10:23
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Yeah I really dislike the idea of armed police wandering round with weapons all the time.
OTOH somewhere recently (here?) there was discussion and/or a link showing how long it would take to get an armed response unit to a crime scene, especially away from London. That seemed really slow to me. So I suppose many more police could be trained in firearms but only get issued with them when a need arises.
I'd add that it does seem that in quite a number of these cases the perpetrator doesn't really want to face up to the consequences of his actions and tops himself before anyone else gets a chance.
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I think Zip and Smoke have lost the point.
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>> I think Zip and Smoke have lost the point.
What is the point being missed?
All French police are armed but that has not stopped attacks. German police are mostly at state rather than national level. Are those in Bavaria armed?
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Read my post properly Bromp. I'm quite sure I never suggested that arming the Police service would stop attacks nor would any right thinking person.
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>>>>
>> That works so well in the USA!?
>>
The USA is only one country, most police forces round the world are armed and operate without the excesses we hear about from the states.
On balance I don't think we need it here, not just yet anyway.
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I think the US is different to most other countries when it comes to gun ownership and crime it's hard to read across to here or any other country.
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>> I think the US is different to most other countries when it comes to gun
>> ownership and crime it's hard to read across to here or any other country.
>>
The police in the UK are so well behaved with their tasters:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-26729965
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The police in the UK are so well behaved with their tasters:
Handy so many police are also polite chefs.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 23 Jul 16 at 12:34
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>> The police in the UK are so well behaved with their tasters:
>>
>> Handy so many police are polite chefs.
>>
I blame auto correct! I definitely typed tasers!
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Aye they all say that ;)
Yes I'm sure there's some incidents in the uk. However i would say the whole gun culture/crime is so very different i still say its difficult to read anything across from/to the UK.
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>> On balance I don't think we need it here, not just yet anyway.
>>
I suspect that there are far more armed police around in the UK than Joe public realises. It is subtle and not advertised. Except in Scotland where it is very obvious.
Last edited by: Old Sundodger on Sat 23 Jul 16 at 12:18
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On the same theme, I was having a pint outside a South bank pub last week when my B in Law asked what the army was doing with boats on the Thames, I recognised them (2) as Royal Marine Special Boat Service RIBs. Heavily silenced engines and very fast when required. They were not on holiday.
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Go on then, why are they so obvious in Scotland ?
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I see that some news links are linking this incident with Brevnik style attack.
Very recently we had similar attacks in Nice and Germany (on train).
All these had common theme that attacker was muslim migrant.
So there are following possibilities (as root cause)
1. muslim migrants has problem integrating with society
2. each attack is isolated (especially this very incident) or linked with far right like brevnik.
Now if [1] is true it indicates Merkel (and EU in general) has a problem with her immigration policy on refugees. This would put Merkel in difficult position (expecially immediately after train attack earlier) and cause huge public backlash.
But if [2] is true, then Merkel/EU are in better position and can divert public attention from the other root cause.
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Because the armed response unit police wear their side arms when on duty and responding to run of the mill calls. But I suspect there are plain clothed armed officers throughout the UK.
Last edited by: Old Sundodger on Sat 23 Jul 16 at 13:03
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I thought the policy in England was to arm themselves for specific incidents. There was certainly concern expressed in Scotland when the armed police were seen at run of the mill domestics etc.
www.scotsman.com/news/politics/police-scotland-defend-new-armed-officer-sightings-1-3712553
Last edited by: Old Sundodger on Sat 23 Jul 16 at 13:08
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I've seen them round here patrolling.
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And the armed response vehicles keep the rest of the weapons locked in a trunk in the boot whilst they are out and about patrolling.
The Italian police I got a lift with once struggled to fit all their gun cabinets in the boot of their small estate car. They had a lot of locked cases.
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It is inpossible to stop a nutcase deciding to kill people with a handgun..Armed police or not you are usually to late and the damage is done.
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rtj: the Italian police must have changed a bit since my day. Herself and I (following her after a few drinks and stuff) once wandered into the middle of a tight group of plainclothes Carabinieri, all casually toting a variety of submachine guns and pistols. One was dangling his Sten or Schmeisser or whatever it was stylishly by its trigger guard with one finger.
They were dead hard guys with unhealthy greenish complexions, and were initially offended by our stupidity and obvious blindness. However they immediately latched on to Herself's very obvious alarm. It took a bit of explaining in my own very poor Italian, but they weren't really convinced. Why was the signora so scared? they kept asking. Probably because she knew I was carrying a bit of dope, but it wasn't the right moment to explain that they wouldn't have cared about that.
In the end they dismissed us with a contemptuous wave of the forefinger. Phew!
We went straight into the nearest bar for a couple more stiff ones.
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The above happened in 1968 I think. Smoked a lot of dope back then. I'm a shadow of my former self these days.
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Good year '68. I was alive then, just about: www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7gHBrJI_ww
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Whilst this particular nutter might have had no links to ISIS or indeed any sympathy with their cause, I have no doubt that the recent actions by that group provided at least some of the inspiration behind his shooting spree.
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Will the Mail revise the sensational headlines? resulting in the sort of comments posted here.
What absolute crap.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36874497
Police say the Munich-born gunman had been in psychiatric care, receiving treatment for depression.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 23 Jul 16 at 19:55
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Another Syrian nutter in Germany murders a pregnant woman and injures two others with a machette! - bet he's got a Mental illness problem as well!
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Apparently he got run over by someone in a BMW.
I bet he sues!
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www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/25/bomb-attack-southern-germany
Another suicide attack. Fortunately no fatality (except the nutter himself) on this one.
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Shot is almost certainly the outcome. Not before the priest was killed.
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More details here. Police had shot them dead and attackers were from religion of peace.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html
Hopefully someone will float the idea of mental issues with the attackers.
The only person having serious (and proven) mental health issue is Merkel.
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"The only person having serious (and proven) mental health issue is Merkel."
Really? Any links to the evidence (which aren't the Daily Wail?)
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This is becoming so common place lately we are going to need a permanent thread! - Scumbags!
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>> This is becoming so common place lately we are going to need a permanent thread!
Alternatively, don't comment or post because that encourages any supporters and may depress the rest of us.
But then I have just responded.
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Even the Mail is using the word Islamic in inverted commas. Other, media including the BBC are avoiding speculation eg There was no immediate word on the identity of the hostage-takers. Mental health issues are a highly probable scenario.
Your comments about Frau Merkel don't deserve to be dignified with a response.
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I get criticised for questioning the intelligence of Movilogo and yet he is okay to say Angela Merkel is mentally ill???
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I posted that on occasion his (movilogo) 'alternative' posting style was very similar to fluffy.
His intelligence as well now?
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Tue 26 Jul 16 at 12:34
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My own favourite comic is clearly sub-edited by illiterate, ignorant teenagers. Some stories are so garbled as to be meaningless or anyway incomprehensible. Where do they find these people? In foreign countries it seems.
Daily papers are finalized in a hurry, but that's no excuse.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 26 Jul 16 at 13:14
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What is up with these people knifing a old priest in a church.
Nobody knows what to do anymore do they?
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>> My own favourite comic is clearly sub-edited by illiterate, ignorant teenagers. Some stories are so garbled as to be meaningless or anyway incomprehensible. Where do they find these people? In foreign countries it seems.
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>> Daily papers are finalized in a hurry, but that's no excuse.
>>
Interns.
BUt if you have a decent head sub, he will refuse to let anything across to stone until he and his senior subs give the nod. A place I know has a whole bunch of greybeards who can NIB and blue pencil like you can't believe. 30 lines over? No problem, let me rip the guts out of it, and it'll make sense. 3 minutes.
Very few organisations do that any more.
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>> I get criticised for questioning the intelligence of Movilogo and yet he is okay to
>> say Angela Merkel is mentally ill???
>>
Apparently top psychiatrist and best-selling author Hans-Joachim Maaz agrees with movilog's diagnosis.
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>>Mental health issues are a highly probable scenario.<<
Surely that's a given of any terrorist or suicide bomber?
Pat
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>> >>Mental health issues are a highly probable scenario.<<
>> Surely that's a given of any terrorist or suicide bomber?
Mental health is a real problem and is all too common in the UK for example with too little help from the NHS.
Whilst some terrorist or suicide bomber may also have some form of mental health issue (e.g. depression or even bipolar disorder), they might also have just been radicalised and brain washed. They don't necessarily have a recognised mental health issue.
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>>recognised mental health issue<<
recognised being the word in question.
Pat
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>> Surely that's a given of any terrorist or suicide bomber?
Nearly all suicide bombers Pat. But some terrorists are rational, if very nasty.
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I think anyone who prays to a supernatural mythical creature is nuts.
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Hobgoblin anyone?
Only two hours to early doors....
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What logic is there in slitting someones throat to prove a point.
The Catholic priest must have been terrified what was going to happen to him.
R.I.P.
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>> What logic is there in slitting someones throat to prove a point.
To kill in an horrific way presumably.
>> The Catholic priest must have been terrified what was going to happen to him.
Stating the bleeding obvious again. Not just a football pundit I see. In truth he was probably praying to his God.
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So whilst we can think about how you could track someone who was a threat like this, one of the killers today was not only on a watch list... he was electronically tagged!
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Does this sound like someone with mental health problems?
One of the terrorists who cut the throat of a village priest in an attack claimed by Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (Isil) had been turned back from Syria and was under police supervision, wearing an electronic tag.
French police and intelligence services were last night under intense scrutiny, after it emerged that one of the killers, named as Adel Kermiche, was known to have been radicalised and on a watch list as a potential threat to national security.
It was also last night reported that the church had been on a “hit list†found on a 24-year-old Algerian jihadi who had planned attacks last year in a Parisian suburb. Sid Ahmed Ghlam, a computer sciences student, was arrested by French police who are investigating whether he was directed to carry out attacks on churches by Isil.
The country’s security services have been accused of a series of failings after attacks by Islamist jihadists in the past 18 months.
Kermiche, 19, began making contact with radicals on the internet after the Charlie Hebdo and kosher supermarket attacks in January 2015 and came to authorities’ attention when he tried to help a teenager from Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray join Isil.
He also twice attempted to go to Syria himself, but was arrested once in Munich and later sent back from Turkey to Geneva, where he was charged with “criminal association in connection with terrorismâ€.
He was returned to France and held in custody for 10 months. In March this year, he was released and tagged, after the public prosecutor appealed unsuccessfully against his release.
A French security source said Kermiche was known to be in contact with Maxime Hauchard, a French jihadist who came from the region and was identified as an Isil executioner.
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I cannot understand why we stop people going to join Isis. All the hassle of them being returned from some border, and then presumably being monitored. Go if you want, but you will never ever be allowed back into the UK. And all benefits for your family stopped with immediate effect.
It seems bonkers that if any refugee/asylum seeker transgresses any of our laws they cannot be booted out with immediate effect, whether the Uk, Germany or elsewhere. One strike and you're gone..no car insurance, drugs, theft, carrying a knife in public. 24 hours and you & your family are out of here.
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Absolutely. Here the punishment for even minor transgressions is deportations.
I was camping in [on?] a reserve last week and on of the warnings was that foreigners lighting unauthorised camp fires will be deported.
It is beyond my why the UK or the EU for that matter, does not do the same. Break the law and you're out.
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When I was a nipper at infant school, two of my best friends were sisters from Latvia, Datsie & Biba I recall ( shamefully I couldn't even point it out on a map now). And another best friend was Desmond (Dessie) from the Windies.
I welcome all and sundry who seek a better life in a foreign country. But woe betide those who break the laws of that country.
Apologies for going off on one but a retired police friend of mine has just had a run in with an Eastern European who stole from him... This character has a petty criminal history, in 2 years living here in the UK, as long as my arm, and why the heck he is still allowed to live here is beyond my comprehension.
Last edited by: legacylad on Tue 26 Jul 16 at 23:26
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Its peculiar and very annoying.
One has to be very careful in the Americas to keep one's nose clean to avoid a permanent trip home.
And here every single person and their documents are checked in and out of the country, national or foreigner. You must carry your ID and proof of permission to be here at all times.
No proof of legal presence and you cannot get a tax number or an id. Without those you cannot get a phone, rent a flat, buy anything from a store, use a library, school or any other state institution, have a bank account, cash a cheque, receive a money transfer, use a hotel or hostel, rent a car, get medical care (other than emergency keep you alive for a bit stuff), are subject to arrest, detention and deportation if your spotted, etc. etc. etc.
Have a car accident where someone is injured and you go to jail until you can prove your insurance is valid and your car is legal. Even if that takes months, and it can.
Even if you are legal here, break the law, you're out.
Now what can conceivably be wrong with that? And why can't the EU/UK do it?
I strongly believe that anybody should be able to live and work anywhere. There should be no restriction, merely documentation. But if you offend the laws of the country that you are in, there should be no hesitation.
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>> And why can't the EU/UK do it?
Often it seems to be the fault of the ECHR. You can't send someone back where they are not going to be safe. Boo hoo :-(
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 27 Jul 16 at 00:45
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I believe that someone's behaviour should outweigh their rights. Being in danger in your own country should carry weight in a visa or permission process, It should be outweighed by criminal conduct.
The other thing is that there should be no application change or appeal process *within* the country's borders.
You sort it out at the border, or you don't come in. e.g. The only way to change your status (tourist to resident, for example) should be to leave first.
We should strive to be fair and reasonable. I see no reason for the country to strive to be nice.
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>>two of my best friends were sisters from Latvia, Datsie & Biba I recall ( shamefully I couldn't even point it out on a map now).
Duh! - it's in between Lithuania and Estonia of course.
8-)
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Dog
I don't know what useful purpose it serves to post Daily Mail links to various acts of violence?
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I am shocked and horrified what happened to that French Catholic priest.
What is next?
I dread to think.
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>> I dread to think.
>>
I am sure that is true!
Last edited by: zippy on Wed 27 Jul 16 at 12:34
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>> I am shocked and horrified what happened to that French Catholic priest.
Try not to get too cut up about it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 27 Jul 16 at 12:51
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Dunc
The acts of violence are being committed by the refugees Frau Merkel invited to come to her country.
I'm horrified at what is going on in Germany and France etc. maybe more so because I know and love Germany and its people so much
The links clearly indicate what the content is, and of course no one has to click them if they don't want to read the articles.
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He only ever posts articles reporting on the activities of those he calls foreign, but then throws in things like "I love Europe" "I love the German people so much" to try to protect himself. blah blah puke blah..
As with some others; to be bigoted doesn't seem to bother him at all. But to be called bigoted upsets him deeply.
Of course, he won't know I wrote this, because he *never* reads anything from me. I think its the long words that stop him.
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Even Fireman Sam's put his foot in (on) it now!
www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/fireman-sam-episode-pulled-after-character-appears-to-tread-on-koran-746819.html
Some folk see "offense" in their imagination! The script was supposed to be unintelligible!
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>> Some folk see "offense" in their imagination! The script was supposed to be unintelligible!
But it wasn't unintelligible... it was a page from the Koran. The intention was it should have been unintelligible but the animators had other ideas. Well they've lost the contract to make these programmes now. Clearly Channel 5 thinks it was a problem.
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>> >> Some folk see "offense" in their imagination! The script was supposed to be unintelligible!
>>
>> But it wasn't unintelligible... it was a page from the Koran.
>>
There is a bit of looking for "offense" or even offence here.
Although the BBC story shows a still picture it comes from a cartoon aimed at very young children and the sequence it was shown in is a few seconds long at most. I have watched that episode with my grandson.
I suspect it was grabbed by the animator from some sort of library of random images although why it should be in there as a recognisable image at all is surprising.
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Here we go again...
Ignore him Dog, he can't quite get over Fluffy ignoring him so he's looking for someone else to bait:)
We'll have a temper tantrum next!
Pat
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Oh God, you're back on one of your two favourite subjects are you?
Dog has already said he's ignoring me. He has said he doesn't read anything I write.
So I can say what I like and he can't react. Kind of amuses me.
And let's be honest, you're no better than he is.
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>>Here we go again...
I don't read anything 'he' posts, Pat. I posted the article about the refugee raping a 79 year old woman because it shocks me so much that a so-called human being could do such a thing.
Where it will all end gawd above only knows :(
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Rapes...
This one is just as shocking and it doesn't involve a refugee!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30150340
But this story in the Mail is way down the page because we don't care if Arabs kill Arabs...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3710431/ISIS-kill-35-people-including-women-children-latest-suicide-bombing-Syria.html
Last edited by: zippy on Wed 27 Jul 16 at 13:57
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Of course we care if Arabs kill Arabs, what a stupid assumption.
The Glasgow story is something we, as a country, can do something about but the Arab one isn't.
If we try to even discuss it we're accused of being racist so most people, including the Mail, keep it low key.
Can you wonder at it.
I can't believe the criticism the Mail gets on these forums, yet it's linked to more than any other paper and I for one, never visited the online page until I started posting here and following links!
Pat
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>>
>> But this story in the Mail is way down the page because we don't care
>> if Arabs kill Arabs...
>>
I love it when the righteous tell us what we are thinking and then tell us how wrong we are to think it.
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There is a small, but significant, section of the Muslim population in Europe whose aim is to destroy liberal democracy and impose their own autocratic standard of behaviour on the rest of us. What we don't yet know is how much support they have among the wider Muslim presence, varying from sympathy with their aims though with condemnation of their methods, up to full support in varying degrees.
We have a problem, and one that won't be solved with a bit of political compromise like that with the IRA.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Wed 27 Jul 16 at 17:58
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>> What we don't yet know is how much support they have among the wider Muslim presence
Some stats here to start with
www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx
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>> I love it when the righteous tell us what we are thinking and then
>> tell us how wrong we are to think it.
>>
No one is telling you anything except the biased newspapers and they know that the killing of one priest in France will get more page clicks than 100 slaughtered by the same murdering scum in Siria.
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>>I don't read anything 'he' posts
Liar.
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Shooting in German shopping mall? - Old Navy
