For better or for worse, we're cruising with Princess Cruises on the Emerald Princess in about 3 weeks to Norway. It's all booked, so no comments on the wisdom of this choice, I have my own thoughts! The destination I thoroughly approve of, just not so sure about the whole cruise thing done in this way. We did the whole Hurtigruten from Bergen to Kirkenes and return for our silver wedding (this is to celebrate our ruby wedding), but the Hurtigruten boats are a totally different kettle of fish to Princess et al. Unfortunately the friends we are travelling with wanted more of a "cruise experience", with formal dress nights, evening entertainment etc, hence doing it this way.
One of the more distasteful practices on board this time is the addition of "discretionary" gratuities of 15% every time you buy a drink, plus a c. $13 per day per person "discretionary" gratuity added to the onboard account. Of course, as they are discretionary, one doesn't have to pay them, but the only way of NOT paying them is to ask for them to be removed at the end of the cruise, which Princess are quite upfront about. My question is, does anyone have any experience as to how difficult (or easy) it is in practice to get them removed from the final account? Personally, I'd rather tip individuals as appropriate.
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If you choose not to tip, be prepared for all staff to potentially know that. Unless you can really leave it to the end to sort out.
I have read one story of people being taken on a tour of the ship including behind the scenes staff areas - there was a chalk board with the names/rooms of the people refusing to pay gratuities!
I can see how these 'tips' can soon add up!
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>> I can see how these 'tips' can soon add up!
I used to be shocked and appalled by the wads of banknotes my parents used to flash when necessary, although they weren't rich at all. Why couldn't the money be spent on me, I used to wonder.
Selfish greedy little beast, eh? In reality they were generous to a fault, but I was used to that.
I'm still bad at tipping, too much or too little, and very forgetful. Even ordinary social life can be demanding intellectually for a simple creature like me.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 14 Jul 16 at 14:45
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Pink-striped again... I tried to add that I've never been on a cruise or wanted to go on one: those memories are of proper long-distance ship travel, before commercial flying took over.
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Pink-striped again...
...as a newt.
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>> ...as a newt.
Not at 3 in the afternoon WDB, except on very special occasions. 6 in principle, 5.30 when I get impatient. And I am very seldom 'as a newt' even after many tinctures. A bit cheerful perhaps.
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Discretionary tipping is in my book almost as bad as bumping a £1200 cruise up to £1400, then trying to make you think you've got a good deal by giving you back £200 to spend on board! It costs them nothing and you get nothing you haven't already paid for!
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Difficult one really because here we are mean compared to areas I've been in the US, where the bartender expects a tip with every drink. A dollar or more on two drinks seems a lot to me I accept that't the way it is and I follow suit.
I'm on a cruise at end Aug (my Ruby too but that's coincidence) but with Thomson (bottom end of the market) but all tipping is "included". (We still give our room staff and any of he better bar staff a bung,. early on.)
It would feel a bit stingy to me to go on a cruise where the policy was spelt out in advance, with the intention of taking back my tips at the end but if they offer the option, why not, if that's how you feel about it. I suppose if I were with friends I'd be extra careful not to want to appear mean. It'd be difficult to sound them out with appearing so.s
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 14 Jul 16 at 15:12
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>> It would feel a bit stingy to me to go on a cruise where the
>> policy was spelt out in advance, with the intention of taking back my tips at
>> the end but if they offer the option, why not, if that's how you feel
>> about it. I suppose if I were with friends I'd be extra careful not to
>> want to appear mean. It'd be difficult to sound them out with appearing so.s
>>
I don't have a problem appearing mean to our friends, they feel the same. TBH I'd rather Princess put the cost of the cruise up and paid the staff a decent wage rather than this discretionary tipping rubbish.
I don't think BTW that the policy was spelt out clearly in advance, the brochures are huge and there's a limit to the amount of small print you can read, particularly when you are new to cruising and don't expect to feel ripped off all the way down the line, nor to know that you need to look for the gratuity policy.
I also dislike their lack of honesty - if you buy duty free alcohol in the onboard shop, they will be "pleased to look after it for you until the end of the cruise", and if you bring it on board from a port, they are equally pleased to do so. The honest truth is, they are confiscating it to make sure that you keep spending in their bars, and I'd rather they said that.
And don't get me started on overpriced excursions!
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LOL you and I have a lot in common there, don't start me on their excursion prices!! As I've usually paid the all inclusive upgrade I've not suffered with the duty free problem, but we once went on some American cruse line which sounds more like yours except I don't think we had the opportunity to reclaim our money even if we wanted to
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Marginal note on bar drinks. A Cunard bartender showed a naval chum of mine his personal measure, a standard tot capacity but with a silver sixpence soldered in the bottom. The method of accounting for alcohol was such that it was a nice littler earner for him, considering the overall volume. That was then but I suppose optics are used now.
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Forgot to mention that we are also given the "opportunity" to pre-pay the standard daily gratuity. To me, a gratuity is for services rendered over and above what the job requires, why on earth would I want to pay in advance when I have no idea what the service is going to be like?? Words fail me.
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You're going about it the wrong way, Mike H. The real price is the headline price plus 15%. It's not really a gratuity. Think about it that way and then you won't resent it.
It's a bit like ordering drinks at a bar. You're there anyway, so you're going to have to pay the 15% premium come what may. So why do they print it in the menu as an extra rather than be straightforward about the price - so as to avoid the embarrassing "That's £26 please" - "Twenty, surely?" "No, there's a service charge."
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As a group from work, we were pretty generous, until hit with a compulsory gratuity for being a large group in a restaurant. We paid it, and not a penny more. Fools really, the restaurant would have got more from us, but being told the gratuity is compulsory is a sure way to spark revolt.
No idea if still the case, but I know a restaurant in Cornwall that makes/made quite big thing about no tips. What you see is/was what you paid. Not expensive, good food and a place where you might bump into an A list celebrity too.
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I was at a restaurant on Tuesday night. The bill ended in 10 cents, so I gave a few Euros extra to cover it and then I'd leave a tip. They kept the whole lot and assumed it was a tip. I asked for the change and didn't leave a tip. I'd have left more for the tip.
Well on this occasion I was going to leave a small tip. The tomato/brandy sauce for my chicken fillet was Heinz Tomato Soup! If it wasn't they'd done a good job of recreating the taste, flavour and texture!
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I've always taken the view that as no one ever gave me a tip or reward for doing the job for which I was paid, I would adopt it generally other than in the service industries if warranted.
Even then in, for instance, a bar I won't give a tip unless it's for service over and above duty, such as serving a number of drinks - the staff are paid to do the work - but certainly not just for one drink. I'm often looked at almost with contempt for the latter...:-)
Same with being waited on in cafes and restaurants - waiters and waitresses are paid to serve food to you which has, in fact, involved a lot of work on the part of the chef or chefs. The latter are the most important asset of such establishments; poor or indifferent food, no matter how good the waiting on staff, means a business will soon go down the drain.
Taxi drivers are another bone of contention. They charge appropriate prices to cover various journey distances yet, like so many other service industry employees, seem to think a tip is theirs by right.
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>>waiters and waitresses are paid to serve food to you which has, in fact, involved a lot of work on the part of the chef or chefs.
In some [many?] restaurants the waiting staff then tip the chef and kitchen staff. They also tip the barmen. This ensures that the kitchen and bar staff supply that the orders for that waiter/waitresses are supplied well.
My typical feeling is that for someone waiting on my table then the bill +10% is the starting point for the service I expect. Up or down from there depending on the actual quality of the service.
For a taxi driver then my starting point is the bill +0%. I will tip if he has gone out of his way.
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>> For a taxi driver then my starting point is the bill +0%. I will tip if he has gone out of his way.
Ever done it FMR? It's a gruelling metier, on driver and car both. A decent bung comes very sweet.
In my day in South London, the most generous tippers were working-class people on a night out. The bourgeoisie went in for that stingy 10% palaver.
Not all drivers give much of a damn for the punters. But I once got one who was a young girl very far gone in drink. She could have come to harm if things had gone wrong for her, although Clapham wasn't all that sinister. I took her to her door, and got out to make sure she would be properly looked after. She was far too ripped, and her relations far too anxious, to say thanks. But I didn't expect it so that was all right then.
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>>Ever done it FMR?
No, AC, I've not.
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I spent my entire working life in service industries - BT and local council. Never once got a tip from a customer.
I'm particularly parsimonious with tips.
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As a cruise veteran I don't begrudge the service charge. The service staff are invariably non-UK/EU and are not given the rates and conditions that UK/EU staff would get. They work many many hours for months on end for low pay. None I have ever met is getting rich off tips. With very few exceptions they give excellent service.
I would prefer not to tip and instead pay more for my cruise and for the staff to get better pay. My issue therfore is with the cruise companies keeping the headline price low and paying low wages thus obliging customers to tip.
Withholding tips has no affect on the companies and simply makes the position of the staff worse as they depend on tipping.
In my working life, also in UK service industries, I was never tipped but I was paid the going rate, and had employment protection and other benefits. Enough to pay for cruises and other holidays the hardworking cheerful cabin staff could never hope to afford. Unhappy as I am with the system I could not look a cabin steward on ( I guess) a 16 hour shift in the eye and have the charge removed at reception.
Finally the OP may be surprised that he may well find that the service is such that he will be more than happy to pay up and it isn't the issue he feels it might be.
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>>As a cruise veteran I don't begrudge the service charge. The service staff are invariably non-UK/EU and are not given the rates and conditions that UK/EU staff would get. They work many many hours for months on end for low pay. None I have ever met is getting rich off tips. With very few exceptions they give excellent service. <<
So clients/passengers should collude with the grasping cruise operators? I don't, in all honesty, believe my conscience would let me be involved in such a situation.
Call me a simple soul but my thinking is 'you provide a service, tell me exactly what you want to be paid for it and I'll happily pay what you've asked for'. End of story and no complication or offence on either side.
Luckily for me, hell will freeze over before I set foot on a cruise ship again.
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Presumably that ship would have to be an icebreaker, Mike.
};---)
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>I spent my entire working life in service industries - BT and local council.
BT... Service Industry....
Error 0xDEADBEEF - Assertion exception. Core dumped.
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>> I was at a restaurant on Tuesday night. The bill ended in 10 cents, so
>> I gave a few Euros extra to cover it and then I'd leave a tip.
>> They kept the whole lot and assumed it was a tip. I asked for the
>> change and didn't leave a tip. I'd have left more for the tip.
>>
It's easy to be caught out here in Austria. It's normal to give a small tip to the waiter/waitress even if you are only having coffee or similar. If the bill was, for example, €6.80, I'd give them €7 - or make it clear, if I gave them a note, that they should take €7. The problem is, if you give them a €10 note and politely say "thank you" (which many Brits would do), the less scrupulous ones will take the "thank you" as meaning "take the lot" and give you no change at all. The more honest ones will simply take the "thank you" as intended, that is, "thank you for your service", and give you the change, in which case you can then leave whatever tip you like. Different mores here.
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>>I was at a restaurant on Tuesday night. The bill ended in 10 cents, so I gave a few Euros
>>extra to cover it and then I'd leave a tip. They kept the whole lot and assumed it was a tip. I
>>asked for the change and didn't leave a tip. I'd have left more for the tip.
Probably an example of the ignorant Englishman abroad, rather than abysmal staff.
If you say "Thank you" when they take the cash away in some countries then it means "Keep the change."
They will have considered you extremely rude.
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>> If you say "Thank you"
We hadn't. On the previous visit I'd left a larger tip too. And I'll never be an ignorant Englishman anywhere - well I can't being as I am Welsh.
With your logic, though, if I'd had to leave an extra €10 note to cover the extra 10 cents, would they have kept that?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 13:52
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I think most places I've been with a heavy tipping culture, they often ask/say 'I'll bring you your change' and you just go from there.
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Every other place/time this holiday, whether it was paying for drinks or food, they would automatically go to get change and made that clear. This time they simply assumed it was the tip. If I'd left a tip it would have been for more - on this occasion they got nothing in the end.
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>> You're going about it the wrong way, Mike H. The real price is the headline
>> price plus 15%. It's not really a gratuity. Think about it that way and then
>> you won't resent it.
Well, to be fair, part of the deal was a $300 per person credit for onboard purchases (although this isn't redeemable against excursions), so it's a bit like devonite's example.
But paying 15% service charge for someone pulling a pint still grates! It's a business model that doesn't work for me I'm afraid.
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In my City local at lunchtimes.
2 x pints = R50.
So the bartender gets R50 and whatever small stuff is in my pockets at the time.
Next 2 x pints, my colleague does the same.
In a school of three, ditto.
Benefits:
"Hello Ian/Bob/Brian."
we get served as we walk in the door. Or as soon as we finish a pint. We can ask nicely to have X, Y or Z on the sports screens, and if the music from the other screens is a bit loud, then they will turn it down, so we can converse.
Small price to pay.
In fact, the same is true in most places I frequent. Treat the staff as one would wish to be treated, and things go well.
The apocryphal 'to insure promptness' actually works.
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The point is...
In a city, I have several watering houses. On board, my choices are limited.
So they have a captive audience, really.
Your choice on tipping. But what the hell, just bite the bullet - you are on holiday, after all - and don't stress about it.
Don't sweat the petty stuff. Or pet the sweaty stuff.
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We've 'done' P&O 8 or 9 times now. The service gets worse. The price goes up. We always take the automatic tipping off tout suite. TBH generally the restaurant staff don't go the extra mile because their superiors are always on their case so they have no 'freedom'. We have had mediocre cabin staff and brilliant ones too. The mediocre ones are just drab anyway although they are few and far between. The good ones get a good bung. P&O like the others I suspect just keep lowering the standards. Why oh why in such an industry don't they just keep it up and put the prices up to suit. Why they have to lower their standards baffles me a little. Fuel is cheap.. Labour is cheap. Booze is cheap. Take the Pizz and it'll all end in excrement.
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>> Why oh why in such an industry don't they just keep it up and put
>> the prices up to suit.
Think RyanAir. Or Club 18-30, or or or...
It seems the cruise is the big thing. From what I've seen, doesn't compare to the old mailships nor transatlantic runs, which were five-star 'dress for dinner' journeys.
I was only a nipper at the time, but the Union-Castle Line was renowned for the latter.
It was a 'cruise', not a 24-hr floating instant entertainment centre.
Last days of empire, maybe. But was that a bad thing?
Last edited by: Ian (Cape Town) on Thu 14 Jul 16 at 21:38
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>It seems the cruise is the big thing.
Friends of ours in the US have sailed as paying guests on freighters quite a few times.
seaplus.com/index.html
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I might have missed it but is there no where you can just pay them the tip direct as you would normally after a meal?
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Most (all?) cruises are cashless. On P&O you use an onboard card like a debit card, which is also your room key. Anyone tipping direct usually does so on their last day in an envelope. This harks back to the days before flexible dining when you had one team of waiters at your fixed table all cruise. Tipping was recommended but personal. They moved away from this to the central system over recent years.
I suppose there is nothing to stop you tipping with cash as you go other than its not the recognised system and I have never seen it done.
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I suppose that's the point, it isn't just the staff you come into contact with who make or break your holiday, and therefore (assuming the company are distributing it fairly) by tipping through the company the tips are going to a wider range of staff.
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You're probably spot on there smokie - e.g. cleaning staff, kitchen staff, etc.
We left a gratuity for the cleaner when we left Greece - I hope it was her that got it. Only saw her once. But she came into the room every day.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 16:19
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Good evening Mr. Aston. We always tip in cash and in to the hand of the appropriate person. We have several friends who do it too. It is fact that Poxy & 'Orrible cruises do NOT distribute the automatic tips to all staff if they (The Staff) get less than full marks on the end of cruise questionnaire.
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Are they lying or being clever with words then?
ask.pocruises.com/help/life-on-board/gratuity
Here's an older article on the subject, only useful as background reading not a "what to do" guide.
www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/Cruises-guide-to-gratuities-and-tips/
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Hi MD. I have heard that too about the distribution being affected by the questionnaires. While some may say this is fair, I don't think it its as it takes no account of an unreasonable customer and opens up double whammy of the customer also exercising their right to remove the service charge.
When the service charge was first introduced I did cancel it and give the recommended amounts personally in cash on the last evening. However I gave up partly as I didnt want to sour the in-cruise relationship with the staff if they had the information that I was a potential non-tipper. Also I thought the central charge might get spread more widely to some behind the scenes. I could well be wrong on this.
I still enjoy a cruise every couple of years but less so as time goes on. P&O have gone down in my estimation over the last few years as they cut corners, cruise ever more slowly to extend the onboard time to maximise bar profits and generally move downmarket. However that still adds to my conviction that my issues are with the company, not the staff who I wlll continue to cough up for until a more enlightened approach comes along.
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Mr. Aston. That is my view entirely. P&O are awful now, just awful.
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My French company was generous when it came to leaves - paid time and a half and passages were first class until flights became faster. The Ambos and infant took advantage to make the Singapore to Sicily trip in the 1960s aboard the splendid new passenger liner Cristoforo Colombo, a dedicated Australia-to-Genoa shuttle (although the car was confined to deck cargo). Very glamorous but the novelty wore off in about three days and we have never been tempted by cruises since.
Bar bills were settled on disembarkation and tips were dished out at this stage.
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>> For better or for worse, we're cruising with Princess Cruises on the Emerald Princess in
>> about 3 weeks to Norway.
>> One of the more distasteful practices on board this time is the addition of "discretionary"
>> gratuities of 15% every time you buy a drink, plus a c. $13 per day
>> per person "discretionary" gratuity added to the onboard account.
Mike, I have done a bit of cruising with P & O and CMV.
I opt out of the automatic tipping procedure. It's very simple. I normally only tip the room steward/cleaner.
I have never noticed any animosity from any member of staff. A moments thought would tell you that unless you are using the formal dining procedure, then it is impossible for staff to know who you are.
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We always withdraw automatic tipping. We always have formal dining. We've never experienced any animosity. I do not believe that any staff are privy to the tipping information and if they are we don't care. Those that perform get tipped well. Those that don't, don't.
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Never understood the hang up a lot of my fellow countrymen have with tipping. USA and Canada where I am at the moment tipping of 15% is the norm. In restaurants Service nearly always excellent.
UK most customers either do not tip or grudgingly leave a few pounds. Service normally awful.
I prefer the former.
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UK most customers either do not tip or grudgingly leave a few pounds. Service normally
>> awful.
I wouldn't say it was normally awful in the UK, very few restaurants i go have awful staff. Do you find it a struggle to find somewhere even decent to eat?
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Plenty of good restaurants in the UK. Food has improved hugely over the past 25 years and we now have a huge range of restaurants to choose from. What has not improved much is the quality of the service. Waiting staff are often poorly trained and compared to other countries the restaurant going experience is often a poor one as far as service levels are concerned.
Obviously there are exceptions but there is no comparison with the sort of service you receive as the norm in the USA or Canada. Just ask any American.
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Fair enough, i can't say I find the service levels in the uk generally speaking to be an issue. Different from the us in that they tend to be a bit chattier, but that's about it. Bars worse in the US i found, the staff can be rude, often poorly laid out, not enough staff and expensive.
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>> Never understood the hang up a lot of my fellow countrymen have with tipping. USA
>> and Canada where I am at the moment tipping of 15% is the norm. In
>> restaurants Service nearly always excellent.
>>
I don't have a problem with tipping, I DO have a problem with being told how much, and to whom.
It's clear in my own mind now that I will not be paying the automatic charge, I'll reward those that actually deserve it. It may be unfair on the behind other scenes staff, but they'll be enough well-heeled punters that don't notice the charge to cover them ;-)
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I can assure you that compared with a waiter or bar staff on a cruise ship you are an extremely well heeled punter. They earn around £500 per month.
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>> They earn around £500 per month.
As little as that!!?! Wow. I would not do a cruise but even with tip that is very little for hard work.
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Probably one of the main reasons cruises are so cheap and therefore popular.
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Looking across Bodrum bay late last week from my hotel (Salmakis) there was a tui cruise ship parked up...Mein Shipp 2. I know nothing about cruising but was surprised that a tour company operated their own vessels.
Decided not to walk into town that day, too busy with passengers most likely. Are there any cruise operators who operate 'all inclusive' holidays? Free drinks, all gratuities included... Seems the way forward to me.
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Smokie's link had a list of all inclusive cruises.
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Assuming that their food, accommodation, utilities and services are all paid for, then £500 pcm of mostly disposable income doesn't sound all that bad.
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I expect most of the staff on these cruise ships are filipino or bangledeshi?
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Truly international crew on Thomsons in my experience, from many many countries. Their name badge used to also have their country. It would have been hard to work out which country had the best representation.
I'd imagine it's not a bad life, we did once go to a Q&A session with the entertainments team (who are probably higher in the packing order than the housekeeping crew) but some of the dancers were sufficiently capable and qualified for work in the West End, or ahd worked there, (so the shows were very good) but they chose the cruise life as it paid at least as well, had better continuity of employment, was more fun and had none of the hassle and cost of where to live.
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A family member used to work on the cruise ships doing entertainment, money was good like you say and a bit of travelling. However i more meant the waiters, bar staff etc?
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Gratuities on cruises - rtj70
