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Anyone see The Last Leg last night, where Adam Hills likened recent resignations to the Spice Girls?
Sporty - Roy Hodgson
Scary - Nigel Farage
Baby - Boris Johnson
Posh - Cameron
and of course Ginger - Chris Evans
Anyway, we are now moving into the world of Nature - we already have a Sturgeon, we may get a May and now the Eagle is on the wing. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 27 Sep 16 at 11:13
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...but the Vote Leave weasels have all run away.
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Reading the reports it seems no one is quite sure how the process is supposed to happen. Seems it might have to go down the legal route to see if JC needs 51 MPs or not. What a farce.
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>> Reading the reports it seems no one is quite sure how the process is supposed
>> to happen. Seems it might have to go down the legal route to see if
>> JC needs 51 MPs or not. What a farce.
>>
A Party which cannot organise its own election rules but expects to run the country ...:-)
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>> A Party which cannot organise its own election rules but expects to run the country
>> ...:-)
The current set up was a spatchcocked solution to 2010 process which elected the 'wrong' Miliband on basis of votes in the Unions and affiliated organisations section of the former electoral college. The Parliamentary party and members in the constituencies segments in the college voted for David. The present system was meant to clip the wings of the 'union barons'.
Whether by design or omission it does not seem to forsee the possibility of the Leader losing confidence of the parliamentary party. The Tories system, in contrast, does. IDS, having lost a vote of confidence could not stand again.
The new system also had the unforeseen consequence of facilitating Jezza's success. Several of those who nominated him assumed he'd provide a focus for lefty discontent but crash and burn as Dianne Abbot did in 2010.
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> Whether by design or omission it does not seem to forsee the possibility of the
>> Leader losing confidence of the parliamentary party.
That bit seems baffling, how could they not cover that possible event?
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>> > Whether by design or omission it does not seem to forsee the possibility of
>> the
>> >> Leader losing confidence of the parliamentary party.
>>
>> That bit seems baffling, how could they not cover that possible event?
>>
Easily. We are talking about Ed Miliband here..
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Angela Eagle was launching her campaign at roughly same time as Leadsom went.
All the political commentators legged it the big news story.
Twitter message sums it up as 'The Eagle is Stranded'.
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>>
>> That bit seems baffling, how could they not cover that possible event?
>>
because there was irrefutable evidence that there could be no loss of confidence in the leader... And even though that's now know to be wrong, they believe it was the right decision... The world is a better place with Jeremy Corbyn in charge of the Labour Party :p
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The bbc has reported that 100000 people have joined labour as a member in the last couple of weeks. They think they are almost all to vote for JC. If that's true, and he does win another vote, that leaves the labour party in a bit of a bind.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 11 Jul 16 at 13:26
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Neil Kinnock has been urging people to join the party for precisely the opposite reason. I may just become one of them.
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I would join to vote for JC. He has my full support and confidence..
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You think eagle would be that much better? A lightweight nobody to my mind, a female ed miliband.
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I can't say I do, I can't see similar tactics working in this one.
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Labour has just gone into civil war.
Traditional Labour voters are moving to UKIP.
Angela Eagle would not stop the rot.
If a General election was held soon Labour would end up with less than a 100 M.P.s in the House of Commons.
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Lets' hope they sort their problems out soon.
Corbyn isn't going anywhere the membership counts for him and two fingers to his fellow MP's.
Can't see a general election soon,unless the deal out of Europe is that poor and she will be forced to go to the country.
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I would think both parties are now beginning to question the wisdom of involving the wider membership in the selection of the parliamentary leader.
It exactly parallels the anomalous role of a referendum with regard to parliamentary proceedings.
Hard to imagine a dafter constitution. And this isn't some ancient unwritten tradition - they have invented this in the last few years and bolted it on skewwith without any thought of the consequences.
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Bizarrely, short of a general election, the way May won was the most democratic outcome possible, in that she was elected by our elected representatives and so, indirectly, by us. For that to be overturned by a couple of hundred thousand self-appointed pensioners would have been as dodgy - and electorally damaging - as anything the Labour Party is doing to itself.
27 or so years ago, the Thatcher government overturned the will of Parliament on the phasing-in of the poll tax when the Conservative conference passed a motion calling for something faster. That struck me then as profoundly undemocratic, so I'm pleased that they've avoided something similar this time.
The referendum isn't an exact parallel, as you can't buy a vote in that. Still doesn't make it a good idea.
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Is this an opportunity for the LibDems to have a resurgence?
No, I thought not.
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>>Is this an opportunity for the LibDems to have a resurgence?
Perish the thought :-( :-(
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Older readers will recall:
Join the Liberals, and feel a man!
I'll be b*ggered if I join the Liberals.
Do they still have a presence in UK politics?
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Locally, in some areas yes. Nationally virtually no presence at all. No (visible) position on brexit pre referendum either. Difficult to see where they're going, which isn't great for democracy while Labour are in meltdown...
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> Do they still have a presence in UK politics?
>>
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_(UK,_1989)
Yes a tiny presence.
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Thanks for that, sooty.
Akin to the Monster Raving Loonies, then?
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Size wise probably but with a lower profile. Most will never have heard of them.
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>>...For that to be overturned by a couple of hundred thousand self-appointed pensioners would have been as dodgy - and electorally damaging - as anything the Labour Party is doing to itself.
But Jeremy Corbyn himself was finally selected by only around half-a-million Labour Party members - a tiny fraction of the many millions who vote Labour in local and General Elections.
Quite a lot of non-Labour devotees joined the Labour Party for a fee of just £3 just to vote for Corbyn, as they saw him as one of the Tory's greatest assets in a General Election...:-)
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Yes, Stuart, that was my point - neither system recognizes that a political party is rather different from a sports and social club.
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>> Yes, Stuart, that was my point - neither system recognizes that a political party is
>> rather different from a sports and social club.
>>
Maybe the recent events of Brexit, Tory and Labour leadership debacles etc will bring it home to the electorate that this politics business is quite serious?
And get them involved in things a bit more at grassroots level?
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>> Yes, Stuart, that was my point - neither system recognizes that a political party is rather different from a sports and social club. >>
Ah, but it was only Andrea Leadsom's withdrawal that prevented a similar members' voting pattern to that of Labour..:-)
The theory is good but the numbers involved much too small to carry any weight, as you recognise.
Mind you the Tories did originally stipulate that anyone who joined the party membership after June 2nd would not have been eligible to vote for either May or Leadsom.
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The NEC has just decided by 18-14 that Corbyn's name will appear on the ballot paper i.e. they must have concluded that he does not need a nomination endorsed by 20% of the PLP.
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The relevant bit of the rule book:
i. In the case of a vacancy for leader or
deputy leader, each nomination must be
supported by 12.5 per cent of the Commons
members of the PLP. Nominations not
attaining this threshold shall be null and
void.
ii. Where there is no vacancy, nominations
may be sought by potential challengers
each year prior to the annual session of
party conference. In this case any
nomination must be supported by 20 per
cent of the Commons members of the PLP.
Nominations not attaining this threshold
shall be null and void.
I would have to agree with the NEC's decision on the meaning of its own rule, but it could have been clearer - carp drafting.
Matthew Parris has just commented that he expects Corbyn will win the election. At what point will Labour MPs have to recognise that their party has become something else, and resign the whip/form a breakaway party?
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 12 Jul 16 at 19:57
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The end of the Labour Party is rapidly approaching.
I think the Labour Party could split into three.
It is sad to see the Labour Party tearing themselves apart.
There could be be three separate parties emerging.
One a left wing party that is supported by the fringe of the hard left ( communist parties)
Second a centre left party that use to be moderate in its policies.
Third a centrist party that is supported by the Liberal Democrat Party.
The trouble is even the Liberal Democrat Party has moved to the centre left.
That leaves a huge gap from the centre to the far right that can be filled by the modern Conservative Party led by Theresa May.
Even the UKIP supporters will go back to the Conservative Party.
What a coalition the Theresa May Government will command.
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The Blairite faction of the Labour Party has more in common with europhile moderate Tories than it does with the Corbynistas. If there's a centre party to be formed it could be between those two, who could then stand on a strongly pro-EU platform. The Tory Nasty Right and Ukip could then join back up, because they never been that different and they deserve each other. Corbyn's Labour rump could carry on playing at student politics, and the Liberal Democrats would also exist.
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I think Corbyn will lose a 2-way race with Eagle.
Too many of his previous supporters now realise he's a liability and unable to muster any meaningful opposition.
If some other bozo throws their hat into the ring then he'll win as the non-Corbyn voters split their numbers.
18-14 was a close decision considering it appears pretty b***** obvious that it is for 'challengers' to get the 20% backing to push a contest.
If the vote had swung the other way, Labour would be, for all intents and purposes, dead.
Permanently.
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>> If the vote had swung the other way, Labour would be, for all intents and purposes, dead.
>> Permanently.
Nothing is permanent comrade. Labour party dead? Do me a favour...
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Where does the Labour Party go from hear?
Too oblivion I can only guess.
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>>
>> Nothing is permanent comrade. Labour party dead? Do me a favour...
>>
Yes, look at the Liberal party in the 1920s - split and seemingly in permanent decline.
Now look at it.
Any one still following the Whigs? Fascinating leadership contest.
:)
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>> Nothing is permanent comrade. Labour party dead? Do me a favour...>>
Remember the Labour Party under Michael Foot? It was permanently written off by many, but hauled itself back over many years' effort.
Not that I'm worried about Labour's current demise, although in reality we do need a strong Opposition.
That will never come under Corbyn or any other too far to the Left leader. He alludes to having the backing of the party members, but they are few in number compared to the millions of Labour supporters in the electorate and that's who the Labour MPs truly represent.
But in my many years on this planet, I can't recall a more fascinating period in the world of UK politics nor, indeed, the sheer pace and change of what has happened in a very short space of time.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 13 Jul 16 at 10:20
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>> I think Corbyn will lose a 2-way race with Eagle.
>>
>> Too many of his previous supporters now realise he's a liability and unable to muster
>> any meaningful opposition.
I wish I could persuade myself you're right. Too many of his supporters are recruited through Momentum, a party in a party in style of Militant 30yrs ago. they may well swing it. I don't see anybody in current leadership prepared for the role Kinnock took in cleansing the party.
I intend to rejoin and vote for Angela but I doubt we'll swing the day. If Corbyn wins again a split is inevitable. This time though the numbers will be greater than those defecting to the SDP and with social media etc and decline of the Unions the future may be brighter.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 12 Jul 16 at 21:03
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If the PLP anti-Corbyners have their act together they'll be planning their own campaign to recruit 3-quidders to vote for Eagle.
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>> If the PLP anti-Corbyners have their act together they'll be planning their own campaign to
>> recruit 3-quidders to vote for Eagle.
>>
New rules £25 quidders and back dated join date for voters
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36778135
"Only those who joined Labour on or before 12 January will be able to vote in the leadership contest.
Anyone who joined after then will have to pay an extra £25 to become a "registered supporter" - and will get a two-day window in which to do so.
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>> >>
>> I intend to rejoin and vote for Angela but I doubt we'll swing the day.
>> If Corbyn wins again a split is inevitable. This time though the numbers will be
>> greater than those defecting to the SDP and with social media etc and decline of
>> the Unions the future may be brighter.
>>
>>
>>
A split in the Labour party will not be easy for the sitting MPs. Who actually owns the party's infrastructure? It cannot be the PLP as they are just selected to represent their constituencies, so I would assume that if they decided to form a new party they would have to finance it themselves. Rather difficult to see where the money would come from with the unions and most of the membership behind Corbyn.
They would need to find some rich benefactors and build a substantial base to become a viable force capable of fighting an election.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 12 Jul 16 at 22:10
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The only REAL asset the Labour Party has is the name "Labouur Party".
Worth about 4 million unthinking voters.
Ditto the Conservatives.
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>I intend to rejoin and vote for Angela but I doubt we'll swing the day.>>
Owen Smith is to join the leadership challenge apparently, which means that Corbyn will benefit due to a split vote.
You won't be able to vote after rejoining as the rules have been changed (unless you don't mind handing over £25 to a money grabbing NEC, something that Labour alleges that others do rather than itself!!!)
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SQ 4 LB
>> You won't be able to vote after rejoining as the rules have been changed (unless
>> you don't mind handing over £25 to a money grabbing NEC, something that Labour alleges
>> that others do rather than itself!!!)
>>
Split the vote? Err no. Transferable vote system.
I HOPE Angela loses and Corbyn is re-elected. The Labour Party needs to be grabbed kicking and screaming into the 20th century and become a party more suited to modern political life: like votes for women mean you can have a female Leader.
But then Trade Union leaders tend to be men so a woman Leader is unacceptable. (Yes I know the TUC head is a woman but the TUC is not a union).
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 13 Jul 16 at 12:18
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Look what happened to the Unions last time there was a Female PM, once bitten, twice shy, maybe!
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From my understanding Labour has some 500K paid up members. A large section are active union & active left wing (Momentum) = Corbyn supporters.
If that is the case is it not really an open & shut case that the vote will go Corbyn as in 2015?
Would this then not spark a walk out from Labour of many of the 170 Labour MPs that created the need for an election of a new leader. i.e. The Labour Party Splits.
Then many of the existing Labour MPs will be ousted by the Local party come the next election in 2020 or sooner?
What is your understanding?
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>>If that is the case is it not really an open & shut case that the vote will go Corbyn as in 2015?
After a year of disaster, he is not going to gain votes from those who voted for the other 3 candidates in 2015.
A number of those who did vote for 'something different' will likely now realise despite his principles he has no ability to lead the party and will vote elsewhere.
He had around 60% of the vote last year so a modest shift may be all that's required.
Multiple challengers I expect will work in his favour though.
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The Labour Party, under Corbyn, is tearing itself apart.
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>>Split the vote? Err no. Transferable vote system.>>
So presumably you transfer it to one or other of your challenger's total?
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I think you have to choose the candidates in order of preference. What happens if you only place one candidate, I'm not sure. Possibly your vote is then 'used up'.
It seems quite complicated as to who can vote from last time. Some of the £3 members can but they need to register again and need to pay bit that depends on what organisation they are afflicted to.
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>> The Labour Party needs to be grabbed kicking and screaming into the 20th century
>>
Pedant Point.... It is stuck somewhere in the 19th Century maybe it should make the leap up to date and be dragged into the 21st Century
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Guido Faulkes must be Laughing somewhere! even he couldn't have caused a bigger implosion of British politics even if he had succeeded! ;-)
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He's one of Roger's favourites, isn't he?
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Cameron's quip at PMQs about Labour's process to vote in a new leader, although a joke is more true than not. Something along the lines of we've had resignation to coronation in two weeks, labour can't even decide on their rules.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 13 Jul 16 at 14:29
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"An MP who quit Labour's front bench during a revolt against Jeremy Corbyn has been reinstated after asking for her old job back."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36886157
I expect she saw him being toppled and didn't want to be tainted but as he's hung on she realised her prospects are better hanging with Jez...
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37009871
More problems ahead. They look like they couldn't organise the proverbial in a brewery.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 8 Aug 16 at 12:05
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>> More problems ahead.
Full judgment here:
www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/evangelou-v-mcnicol-20160808.pdf
Not read in detail but interesting to note that one claimant is a minor suing by his litigation friend (representative adult). Presumably there's an issue somewhere specifically affecting members under 18.
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A little dry for me, however the long and the short is, this is still rumbling on. From start to end, this could be months long.
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>> A little dry for me, however the long and the short is, this is still
>> rumbling on. From start to end, this could be months long.
Although the judgement doesn't mention leave to appeal at was granted 'reluctantly'. Court of Appeal teed up for hearing on Thursday.
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Like I said still rumbling on. When/if it's all sorted in Sept, what will it be 4 months?
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Of what relevance is "reluctantly " or enthusiastically, for that matter? Its the law or it isn't.
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>> Of what relevance is "reluctantly " or enthusiastically, for that matter? Its the law or
>> it isn't.
Appeal isn't an automatic right. Needs EITHER leave of first instance judge OR a permission hearing in Court of Appeal (CoA). Whichever way, there needs to be a point of law for CoA to decide.
In this case Mr Justice Hickinbottom was some way less than 100% convinced there was a point of law. Gave permission anyway as time is pressing.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 8 Aug 16 at 13:33
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>>In this case Mr Justice Hickinbottom was some way less than 100% convinced there was a point of law.
I get that, but of what relevance is it? Its a yes/no decision. His reluctance is of no relevance, surely?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 8 Aug 16 at 14:54
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>> I get that, but of what relevance is it? Its a yes/no decision. His reluctance
>> is of no relevance, surely?
Relevant to the binary decision? Perhaps not, but interesting nonetheless.
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The Court of Appeal has reversed Mr Justice Higginbottom's decision and found the National Executive does have powers to decide who is eligible to vote:
www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/christine-evangelou-and-others-v-iain-mcnicol-appeal/
Commentary suggests this was a bit of a surprise and that most expected to see the original judgement upheld.
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Can this appeal be appealed or are labour in danger of getting this sorted sometime this year?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 13 Aug 16 at 10:02
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>> Can this appeal be appealed or are labour in danger of getting this sorted sometime
>> this year?
Could go to the Supreme Court with permission.
Some cases there (eg those around 'bedroom tax') take months. This one, like the challenge to non residents' voting rights in the referendum, might be fast tracked. Court is officially in recess in August but there will be judges stood by for urgent business.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 13 Aug 16 at 11:25
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The Labour Party cannot survive under Jeremy Corbyn.
The Labour Party is on the brink of splitting up.
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Oh I think Labour will survive as a party, but as a electoral force it is looking pretty iffy but time will tell.
If Labour starts to dip below 25% in the polls on a regular basis, that would be pretty shocking mind you and at that point you could say they were in big trouble, but they are not there yet.
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Jeremy Corbyn angered by train seat row questions
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37173048
What a shambles, both the Labour party and their leader.
A good demonstration of someone who is not used to being challenged and so is unable to respond in a civilised way. IMO what a snarling nasty individual.
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I'm no fan of Jeremy Corbyn but I thought he responded quite reasonably considering the press conference was specifically about the NHS.
An emotive subject in itself and had he have allowed it to have been diverted to the 'train' problem he would have been criticised for that.
'Snarling, nasty individual'? What exactly did you watch? I saw a controlled man, keeping his patience very politely.
Pat
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Two things wrong about the train scenario.
1. Jeremy clearly lying about the train being full and he had to sit on the floor. But politicians lie all the time I suppose ;-)
2. Virgin Trains releasing images from the CCTV on to social media - they aren't allowed to do that. The ICO are rightly looking into it
I actually think Virgin was right to challenge Corbyn but they might have got someone into a bit of bother.
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He could have actually found a policy that was in line with a large number of voters according to polling, but instead managed to turn it into a story about telling fibs.
I had him down as authentic, if crackers. Now just crackers.
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I don't know about "snarling", but lying for sure. Never met the bloke, I don't think, but he does come across as unpleasant.
It was interesting how Corbyn felt the issue was so important he had a video made of himself sitting on the floor, but when asked about it by a reporter he felt it was unimportant and trivial.
He had wanted to make a point about both the issue and his behaviour - what a dedicated man of the people, willing to sit on the floor while he worked. etc. etc. Unfortunately either he or his advisors, or probably both, seem to lack intelligence and imagination about how that was going to play out.
Satisfying though it was to see Karma in the shape of Branson appear, it was pretty unacceptable use of CCTV footage. Branson himself would have reacted very badly had that been done to him.
They should have just said that the footage existed without releasing it and then watched the ignominious climb down.
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I can understand why they released the footage and would have done the same myself in that situation and swallowed the fine. If Virgin are prosecuted it won't do Corbyn any favours as this is a story he'll want forgotten very quickly. A court case will keep the Daily Mail in headlines for some time to come.
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I'd have been astonished if the 11.00 train had been "rammed". It clearly wasn't. He should just have sat in some "reserved" seats - the problem is that most ordinary bookings online even for anytime tickets prompt you to select your train and reserve you a seat. Excepting those reserved for journeys starting further along the line, the vast majority of reserved seats still available after departure will in fact be free.
Jeremy has shifted his ground a bit anyway - he is no longer saying that there weren't any unreserved seats, but that he couldn't find two together.
He has basically dropped a clanger.
Incidentally, the trains that ARE rammed on the Inter-City routes are usually the first off-peak ones. Nationalising the railways won't solve that.
He looked snarly to me.
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>>He looked snarly to me<<
Good job you've never met me when I'm miffed then:)
Pat
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.............because before when the railways were nationalised the trains were never crowded, dirty, tatty, broken and full of rude, unhelpful staff.
It doesn't matter the issue, the electorate seem to have such short and defective memories.
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One of the papers had some advice for politicians today.
1/ Spin all you want, but never lie.
2/ If you do lie, don't get caught.
Corbyn has been in Parliament long enough to have learnt that. He comes across as a rather stupid idealist, never learns, never forgets.
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>> before when the railways were nationalised the trains were never crowded, dirty, tatty, broken
>> and full of rude, unhelpful staff.
And the train franchise operators (Virgin, Aviva, etc) don't even own the trains now of course. They aren't allowed to are they? They lease them I think.
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>> Arriva.
>>
:-) Oops. Of course they are actually Deutsche Bahn now who bought Arriva.
By the end of the year Homebase will be Bunnings too for a bit of thread drift. Presumably Argos will be Sainsbury and Habitat sold off.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 24 Aug 16 at 20:40
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>> By the end of the year Homebase will be Bunnings too for a bit of
>> thread drift.
>>
I hope Bunnings do sausage sizzle barbeques in the car parks on Saturdays as they do in Australia, might need a weather transplant and some serious staff training. :-)
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Jeremy was not even working FM2R.......if my eyes did not deceive me he was busily scanning Private Eye magazine.
Lovely to see him hoist by his own petard....
Good joke on the Eye cover this week......
.Headline is ....Cycling 'It's a Trott victory' and a photograph of Jeremy on his bike saying Nonsense!
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> And the train franchise operators (Virgin, Aviva, etc) don't even own the trains now of
>> course. They aren't allowed to are they? They lease them I think.
>>
They are leased from four companies. The trains i use the most are about 40 years old, they must have been paid for years ago, probably long before privatisation.
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>> .............because before when the railways were nationalised the trains were never crowded, dirty, tatty, broken
>> and full of rude, unhelpful staff.
I think until very recently some of the franchise(s) were nationalised. I think they were pretty good. Can't remember which one though.
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I've used the 11am Waterloo to Newcastle train a few times recently and had no problem reserving a seat even when booking the day before travel. So, even though Corbyn has a bunch of assistants that orchestrate all his public appearances down to the tiniest detail and make all his travel plans and bookings they leave him to queue for tickets with his wife and entourage at Waterloo? What utter BS!
It was a staged event that he thought would boost his socialist credentials at Virgin's expense and it's backfired on him. It was also spectacularly stupid. If he believed he could take a very public poke at Virgin and they would not check his story and respond then he really needs better advisors.
I must have seen different coverage of his press conference than you Pat. The one I saw had a snakeoil salesman resorting to sarcastic jibes and veiled threats to try and avoid answering for his apparent attempt to deceive the public.
Last edited by: Kevin on Wed 24 Aug 16 at 21:36
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>> What utter BS!
If any of us knew we were making that journey we'd have booked in advance to get a discount and reserve seats. The fact he didn't book in advance means the tax payer didn't save money on the fares. But we know it was staged.
As if he found out he had to go to Newcastle at short notice and yet took his wife and an entourage including someone to film him sat on the floor.
So did they get to Newcastle and then drive around hotels looking for rooms?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 24 Aug 16 at 22:59
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>The fact he didn't book in advance means the tax payer didn't save money on the fares.
That is another part of his story that doesn't ring true.
He originally claimed that he'd been offered an upgrade to First but declined because it would be the taxpayer picking up the tab.
I thought he was there as part of his leadership campaign? The cost of that is supposed to be covered by either the Labour Party or his sponsors not Joe Public.
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And the offer of the upgrade would have been free anyway.
And why walk through carriages that are already going to be full? The screens at the stations in London show which carriages will be least full/booked... they do for Virgin from Euston at least.
He probably refused an upgrade because he had plans for a film about ram-packed trains.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 24 Aug 16 at 23:25
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If I was on a train and the only seats unoccupied had bookings but remained empty, I'd use one rather than sit on the floor. If asked to move later I would. Who wouldn't apart from Corbyn? I wonder if he claimed for dry cleaning for his suit after sitting in the vestibule?
I've travelled on trains where I've had a booked seat and managed to get an earlier train. So my booking of a seat was still valid but I never used it. A lot will do that.
My example is worst case scenario from London to Manchester in rush-hour. I want a seat but get away a bit earlier.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 24 Aug 16 at 23:32
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This thread is not generating much response. Almost a month since the last response .
There was a pre recorded item on BBC4 this morning.
Corbyn was his usual self demonstrating that he does not have any idea how to use the media in a beneficial way for his cause.
Certainly I see momentum as they dig a bigger hole.
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Corbyn and his supporters are determined not to do things the conventional way; their agenda has little connection with making Labour electable, though they seem to believe (or hope) that somehow what they're doing (once the Parliamentary Labour Party falls into line) will appeal to enough of the electorate to make that happen.
There will be lots more democracy, apparently, in the Party, with members choosing the shadow cabinet. No-one seems to have thought whether that actually produces a more effective political force; what it does show, of course, is that Corbyn has little sense of leadership, but we knew that already. It doesn't seem to bother his supporters.
It seems some of those who resigned from the shadow cabinet earlier this year are now ready to return, adding to the shambles that the Labour Party has become.
And it seems almost certain Corbyn will be re-elected.
Last edited by: Focal Point on Mon 19 Sep 16 at 10:01
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He was elected their leader like him or not.
The younger generation are voting for him and lets' face all parties are a shambles some hide it better.
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If Labour members think Corbyn is the answer, I am not sure what the question they are asking is, but it is up to them who they take to the country in 2020, politics is very fluid right now so who knows what will happen.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37406657
'Momentum kids' group launched by Corbyn supporters
So lets try brain washing kids?
Sort of sounds familiar ?
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"'Momentum kids' group launched by Corbyn supporters"
Nicknamed "Tiny Trots", I believe. Nice!
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>> So lets try brain washing kids?
An alternative perspective:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/19/momentum-kids-weird-sinister-helping-women-engage-politics-childcare
What's wrong with childcare to help women find time to engage in politics?
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>>
>>
>> The younger generation are voting for him and lets' face all parties are a shambles
>> some hide it better.
>>
>>
>>
90% of the younger generation have no interest in politics at all, as has always been the case. Don't let a bunch of voiciferous middle class students convince you otherwise. And that is the Labour leadership's problem, they have become the party of Islington luvvies and grown far apart from their traditional working class supporters. The only challenger to Corbyn has a second EU referendum top of his agenda despite the working class areas voting overwhelmingly to leave. They are out of touch with them on immigration too, so it is hard to see where their votes are going to come from next election.
If UKIP can get their acts together Labour are facing a disaster.
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>>If UKIP can get their acts together Labour are facing a disaster. <<
Seem to be some hints of that but time will tell. They certainly are focussed on working class Labour voters though, the talk internally is of little else.
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Corbyn's ex, ex,
Jane Chapman, a Professor of Communications at the University of Lincoln, was the first of Corbyn's three wives says.......
www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37430683
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/21/revealed-jeremy-corbyns-ex-wife-jane-chapman-voted-for-owen-smit/
An interesting review.
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Haha hell hath no fury...
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"Heav'n has no rage like love to hatred turn'd;
Nor Hell a fury, like a woman scorn'd."
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There's nothing like a woman scorned, is there?
Did no-one ever tell he that if you can't say anything nice about your Ex, then you keep your mouth shut.
Makes me ashamed to be female.
Pat
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There's nothing like a woman scorned, is there?
Maybe a previous leadership contender?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37438120
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Not long know until the result of the vote is announced. Everyone seems to think that JC will win another leadership election. If he does not sure where a lot of the labour mps go now, they've got no faith in him but what else can they do? They've tried to get rid of him but, more than likely, failed.
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Jezza gets it.
What now, Labour?
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Most likely into oblivion. The party may have the largest party membership around, but there are millions of people who vote Labour who have no truck with Corbyn and his rabble rousers.
It has emerged as the truly Nasty Party under his leadership, despite all his soothing words. It also annoys me that union leaders seem to believe that every one of their members is a Labour supporter; nothing could be further from the truth and I speak as a former union member.
We've been through it all before with Militant Tendency in Liverpool and it took a long time to rid the party of the organisation.
I'm a Conservative, but I would never wish Parliament to lack a strong and constructive Opposition, no matter what its hue.
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The current labour party is significantly further left on the political spectrum than the New Labour party (1997 - 2010) was. Make no mistake, this is now the labour party of the 1970's and '80's which was unelectable.
Corbyn with his vicious supporters and wicked internet trolls reminds me of the Pigs from Animal Farm with their attack dogs.
I suspect there will be a new centre left party in time but the real danger is that the far right will replace labour in their heartlands and we will see the Conservative Party become the new right of middle ground party with the opposition being UKIP or the like.
Not a good outcome.
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Labour is not finished any more than it was under Foot. Sooner or later either the present party will be taken back by the moderates or an offshoot will take it's place and recover to a position where it can challenge in an election. Labour's present position does the Conservatives no favours, just as 1980's Labour did none for them back then. You can argue that they gave the then Conservative government a very long run in power, but the longer you are in the longer you will be out for once the electorate decide the game's up. Too much baggage to carry after a long innings, just as Labour are discovering now irrespective of being saddled with a loony leader.
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Labour is not finished. Those who say so assume Mrs May will be a successful leader of the Government.
Remind me how successful she has been in defending our Borders?
In running our prisons?
She's quite capable of making Mr Corbyn seem a sophisticated and competent politician - in my view. I am unconvinced so far.
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>>
>> She's quite capable of making Mr Corbyn seem a sophisticated and competent politician - in
>> my view.
>>
>>
Only Frank Spencer could make Jeremy Corbyn seem like a sophisticated and competent politician.
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Assuming Theresa May proved to be incompetent, and there seems little to support that argument at the moment, what on earth makes you think that the electorate would turn to Jeremy Corbyn and the labour party?
The next PM will almost certainly come form within the Conservative ranks. Mrs May would be be removed rather quickly if she turned out to be a liability and replaced with a more acceptable alternative in time for the next election, which will be a walkover.
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So earlier in the week I said to SWMBO that he was going to win cos loads of non-Labourites had signed up for £25 (or whatever the pittance was) to elect him as leader so that Lab would not get elected at the next election, or at least not while he's in charge.
I'm not usually one to initiate conspiracy theories so I feel I must have got wind of that somewhere else. much earlier in the process.
It seems plausible but no-one else has been saying it so I've no idea where I might have got it from.
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>> So earlier in the week I said to SWMBO that he was going to win
>> cos loads of non-Labourites had signed up for £25 (or whatever the pittance was) to
>> elect him as leader so that Lab would not get elected at the next election,
The idea that you could pay £n as a supporter and vote for the (unelectable) Corbin while being in reality a Tory (or a Tory's dog/cat tortoise) was mooted last year. In reality there's little if any evidence of these 'tactical voters' being present, never mind influencing the process.
His supporters are genuinely lefties.
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>> His supporters are genuinely lefties.
Indeed they are and there's lots of them. But there's not enough to mean he's elected as PM if the chance came up. And they are across different constituencies too.
I think the Labour MPs were wrong to force this election without a credible candidate. Something I thought they would do before 2020. Maybe difficult to do now.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 24 Sep 16 at 20:14
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>> His supporters are genuinely lefties.
Result being that Labour will be just a protest party for years rather than a potential Government. This is bad for democracy, a strong Opposition is needed to keep a Government on its toes.
The Blairites and other modernisers must be in complete despair, I suspect a party split is imminent. The UK has moved on from nationalising anything that comes into sight and union dominance.
I must buy a copy of teh grauniad today, see what it makes of it all.
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I wouldn't be so sure, politics is a funny business. The PM's honeymoon won't last forever, when the papers get stuck into her popularity will fall. Many were convinced he was a no hoper to even win the leadership contest, yet he's won it twice. Same with the referendum, the result was a shock to many.
I'm not saying he's nailed on for PM but strange things can and happen in politics.
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>>Many were convinced he was a no hoper to even win the leadership contest, yet he's won it twice.
Corbyn & his supporters have crowded the Labour Membership with lefties & as a result they are living off each others votes. Choose who votes & you win.
Unfortunately for Corbyn the Great British Public are a different breed.
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order-order.com/2016/09/25/momentum-mock-injured-soldiers/
Corbyn's supporters: or Smith's?
Last edited by: Roger. on Sun 25 Sep 16 at 19:37
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>> order-order.com/2016/09/25/momentum-mock-injured-soldiers/
>>
>> Corbyn's supporters: or Smith's?
It's spoof/humour stuff. Not funny really but less offensive then the racist schiess you routinely link to.
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>> >> order-order.com/2016/09/25/momentum-mock-injured-soldiers/
>> >>
>> >> Corbyn's supporters: or Smith's?
>>
>> It's spoof/humour stuff. Not funny really but less offensive then the racist schiess you routinely
>> link to.
>>
Touched a nerve there?
More: order-order.com/2016/09/25/today-at-labour-conference/
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Your racism always touches a nerve amongst decent people.
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>>Touched a nerve there?<<
Well, when it is racism or any other type of bigotry most on the Left have a blind spot when the person doing it is also from the Left - they have very flexible principles, like footy supporters who only see a foul by the opposing team.
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Do they?
So you believe those on the left are more reluctant to see bigotry in other left wing supporters whereas those on the right are much more open minded?
.**********
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>>Do they?
So you believe those on the left are more reluctant to see bigotry in other left wing supporters whereas those on the right are much more open minded?<<
Yes. There is a moral superiority on the Left that appears to make it harder to recognise when those they broadly agree with do wrong, hence they launch into convoluted defences that they wouldn't apply to those on the Right.
It isn't about the bigotry for Lefties, it is about feeling righteous, which doesn't work so well with close political kin I guess.
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>> Yes. There is a moral superiority on the Left that appears to make it harder........
I don't disagree with your assessment of those on the left, I just don't think those on the right are much different.
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>> order-order.com/2016/09/25/momentum-mock-injured-soldiers/
>>
>> Corbyn's supporters: or Smith's?
>>
I think momentum is corbyns support. Mocking the disabled, they wouldn't if it was any other group. But i suppose they've got a selective switch for that.
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>> So earlier in the week I said to SWMBO that he was going to win
>> cos loads of non-Labourites had signed up for £25 (or whatever the pittance was) to
>> elect him as leader so that Lab would not get elected at the next election,
>> or at least not while he's in charge.
>>
So many signed up that his vote increased by TWO per cent.
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I can see this going the same way as the Brexit thread, I see the usual suspects are the only ones posting.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 26 Sep 16 at 07:56
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Labour leadership thread Vol 1 - WillDeBeest
