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I'm surprised there isn't one of these already!!
Anyway Ken Clarke has been caught discussing the candidates with Malcolm Rifkind while waiting for a Sky interview. Nothing too shocking or controversial really except the fact of it happening, for me. Why were Sky filming? I can see that they have a right to release it but if I were an MP I'd refuse any further interviews with them, if you can't even have an off-camera moment. But then I suppose they probably get a fee for each interview, do they?
My money is on Theresa May.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 12 Jul 16 at 10:11
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Then you're aligned with Flippy - at least until he turns Floppy and picks Michael Gove.
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Is john 'Spock' Redwood still alive?
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>> Is john 'Spock' Redwood still alive?
Yep. Backing Leadsom.
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>> My money is on Theresa May.
Mine too. Local interest of course is Andrea Leadsom but now the spotlight is on her the shine may be going.
Today's vote is surely a forgone conclusion with Liam Fox eliminated. Thurday's big brother session, with TWO evictions will be more interesting. Some suggestion of tactical voting for Gove so as to eliminate Leadsom.
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Forgot the link www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36717447
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 5 Jul 16 at 17:23
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Result:
Theresa May - 165
Andrea Leadsom - 66
Michael Gove - 48
Stephen Crabb - 34
Liam Fox - 16
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That could easily become simply:
May - 199
Leadsom - 130
Then over to the Conservative party after next week. I can't see many supporters of Crabb going for Leadsom. Some of Fox and Gove may back May however.
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Only minor surprise is AL got that many in the first round. No great surprise overall though.
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>> Only minor surprise is AL got that many in the first round. No great surprise
>> overall though.
>>
Borris supporters?
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Crabb has pulled out offering his support to May According to Guardian he does so arguing that her ability to secure the backing of 165 MPs showed that she was the only candidate who had any hope of unifying the party and country. Fox has supported her personally too.
Cannot see Leadsom picking up many more except from Fox voters who don't follow his view.
Tactical votes? .
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 5 Jul 16 at 21:43
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It's been a long day. I read that as
Crabb has pulled out his support and offered it to May.
And some say chivalry is dead.
Come to think of it, is a jock strap what we need to keep the Scots from breaking away?
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....thank you for your support, I shall always wear it............
(Well, "The Goons" seems somewhat appropriate)
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Gove comprehensively out voted.
Mrs May 199 votes
Mrs Leadsom 84
Mr Gove 46
So - a female PM next. I don't see them waiting till Sept to sort it, there's too much of a vacuum now.
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>> So - a female PM next. I don't see them waiting till Sept to sort
>> it, there's too much of a vacuum now.
Wonder if Harman will have replaced Corbyn by then. Female leaders of both parties should keep Pat happy ;>)
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>>Female leaders of both parties should keep Pat happy ;>)<<
Couldn't be further off the mark BT.
I'm a firm believer the person best able to do the job should get it, regardless of gender, nationality, sexual orientation or colour.
I do think Theresa May is capable but she went down in my estimation keeping a low profile of her views before the referendum to further her own political career though.
A chip of the block I'm afraid and we sorely need someone to break that mould.
Pat
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>> A chip of the block I'm afraid and we sorely need someone to break that
>> mould.
Not Andrea Leadsom though, what we desperately need now is safe and experienced hands.
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>what we desperately need now is safe and experienced hands<<
With a leaning towards what the majority voted for because they won't be fobbed off anymore.
Pat
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I don't need to, the vote and turnout spoke for itself.
However your prophecy for a future vote and the result, has no ground whatsoever.
Pat
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>> With a leaning towards what the majority voted for because they won't be fobbed off
>> anymore.
But that's not what's on offer. You've go anexperienced candidate who has historically been sceptic about Europe but though on balance we're better off in.
Of you've a rabid outie, allegedly anew convert to the cause, with no proven record in government and with muck arising around her finances and CV.
As an aside I'm going to draw great amusement from the vicious campaign likely to be run against Leadsom by the Daily Mail. Change to see the right getting a dose of THAT medecine!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 7 Jul 16 at 18:10
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So the majority out voters want a right wing Tory government lead by a woman with no political experience with a slightly over embellished CV. We might get to leave the EU but will the out voters get what they really wanted?
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I really don't understand it, but then I stopped understanding the UK two weeks ago. I am not fan of May but some Leadsom is my idea of a nightmare PM. Everything about her believes is everything I stand against. Welcome to Franco MK2.
People thought I was a bit mad when the last government got in because I was so angry, and is one of the main reasons I avoided this site over the past year, due to political differences but it now seems I was very right to be worried. Leadsom and May make Cameron seem liberal!
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Yes, Rats. Leadsom with no EU buffer makes me fear we'll get 'intelligent design' in our schools next. Worst of all worlds.
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Sorry about my spelling and grammar above, didn't sleep last night (again) so shattered.
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Right wing Tory governments haven't between voted in for a long time. Now we might have one until 2020.
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Right wing Tory governments haven't between voted in for a long time. Now we might have one until 2020.
We might, but despite the fixed parliaments act (or whatever it's called) there still would have been a possibility that an early election could be held. But since Her Majesties Loyal Opposition is in a mess (understatement) perhaps so.
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>>
>> With a leaning towards what the majority voted for because they won't be fobbed off
>> anymore.
That's ones first inclination, I agree. But I think more subtle reasoning usually suggests that a recent convert makes a more wholehearted champion.
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60 percent of the vote and it still needs to go before an unelected higher authority. Lucky we've taken back control of our democracy from those dreadful people in Brussels.
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>>those dreadful people in Brussels
Why are they dreadful?
It makes as much sense as saying those dreadful people in Slough or Dublin or Paris or Cardiff or ...... well you get the picture.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 7 Jul 16 at 18:57
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I don't know, Zippy. Something to do with their cold, dead hands, apparently.
I passed through Brussel Zuid station again yesterday. Bought some Kwak and some Côte d'Or chocolate to take home. The hands of the man who sold them to me may have been cold - I couldn't tell - but they certainly weren't dead.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 7 Jul 16 at 19:01
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I have always enjoyed my trips to Belgium but hated the station at Brussels. Never could find my way around it.
I could never understand the vilification of the Brussels bureaucrats. It is not as if they sat down on a Monday morning and collectively said: "Lets do something to sod up the UK!" and then the following Monday said the same thing all over again.
They made policies based on directions from elected MEPs. Much of our view of the EU is based on the newspapers, which make money from selling bad news stories about the EU and have vested interests from their owners (I bet Murdoch is having a really good laugh at our expense).
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>> They made policies based on directions from elected MEPs.
No they don't, not that it matters much.
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There will be no more elections to the European Parliament.
What comes next for UKIP.
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A women as the new Prime Minister.Not surprised the majority of the men total crap as candidates to lead this Country.
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I personally don't like either of them, but then I hate the entire political party. I have no time for May but she seems slightly more middle grounded than the other one. I won't say the rest as I will offend people.
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"...as I will offend people"
I thought that was obligatory here... :-)
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Well it is actually that offensive, but I just get worried when a future prime minsters hobby includes "bibble studies". I just didn't want to get into any kind of religious debate.
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I meant not, didn't really sleep last night, been waking up a lot in the middle of the night since the entire Brexit thing started.
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>>I could never understand the vilification of the Brussels bureaucrats>>
Perhaps you don't know, for example, about the EU president's past?
tinyurl.com/gmkgy62
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Victoria Coren isn't impressed by the update of Cluedo. (Bear with me, there is a point to this.) So she suggests some alternative replacements for Mrs White, including
Mrs Bone
Mrs Bone the rightwing candidate has an interestingly shady past. Where does she come from? The top echelons of finance? Maybe, but something doesn’t add up. What an intriguing assassin! Did she do it in the chamber with the leadsom piping?
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Is anyone else buying Leadsom's defence of her 'motherhood' remarks to the Times? She clearly didn't want it attributed to her but hoped to plant an idea that might then appear in an editorial favouring her over someone with - oh, let's see - the credentials and experience to do the job.
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Likewise, has anyone else noticed Theresa May's claims from her supporters that she is an intensely private person and guards her private life from the media with a passion only to find her, after all these years, speaking about her 'grief' at not being able to have children?
The gloves are off and all is fair in love, war and politics.
Pat
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Leadsom has dropped a brick, again. Get over it Pat.
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Get over what Norton?
Two women playing dirty for top position?
I'm not fussed which of those two get the top job but I'd take straight talking, as opposed to the sympathy vote, every time.
Like a lot of people in the public eye, it seems they want privacy when it suits them but are happy to 'use' their private status when it helps them.
Double standards is NOT more of what any of us want surely?
Pat
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>>
>> Double standards is NOT more of what any of us want surely?
>>
I think it's exactly what a successful negotiator needs. :)
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>>I think it's exactly what a successful negotiator needs. :)<<
....but not someone who wants to be re-elected!
Pat
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>> Like a lot of people in the public eye, it seems they want privacy when
>> it suits them but are happy to 'use' their private status when it helps them.
Found the source for this now. May was interviewed for the Mail on Sunday and of course was asked a bit about her home etc life. She obliged with few recollections of childhood, university and how she met her husband. Asked about children she replied that they'd tried but failed.
Now if she'd expanded on that with a list of miscarriages and a detailed account of investigations and treatment and told us tearfully how she empathised with every other childless couple I'd agree about hypocrisy. But she didn't. She declined to go into further detail other than to say they'd sought help.
The Tory party has previous for muckraking in this area. During the 2001 leadership campaign Norman Tebbit spoke out for Duncan Smith including fact that he had 'a normal family life with children'. It was a dig at Michael Portillo who was childless, reportedly on account of his wife's previous cancer treatment.
Given it's been subsequently revealed that Portillo had 'batted for both sides' it was more likely a dog whistle to the party's homophobics who'd heard rumours of such things.
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>> Found the source for this now. May was interviewed for the Mail on Sunday and
>> of course was asked a bit about her home etc life. She obliged with few
>> recollections of childhood, university and how she met her husband.
Not followed the whole thing but isn't that what AL said, part of a back story?
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>> Leadsom has dropped a brick, again. Get over it Pat.
>>
That's assuming she said what she is reported to have said. Journalists are not above taking things completely out of context and twisting them to mean something the interviewee did not mean at all. That's the reason experienced professional footballers often appear thick, they know from experience that anything they say other than the standard clichés will be turned back to bite them.
I wonder if the interview was taped? Tony Benn used to take his own tape recorder to press interviews so he'd be safe from having his comments massaged by unscrupulous hacks.
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Given she didn't deny she'd said it, she probably did say it and she probably knew it was taped.
Probably.
I don't doubt that hacks twist things and lie and take them out of context though.
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>> Tony Benn used to take his own tape recorder to press interviews so he'd be safe from having his comments massaged by unscrupulous hacks.
Yes, he even did it to me. I was rather hurt, but we hacks are brave creatures.
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When I first started in motivational research, to give it its poncy name, the cassette recorder hadn't been invented. There was an 8-track thing for posh cars, but no cassettes as we know them.
I used to use a reel-to-reel Grundig tape recorder. It weighed a ton and was unreliable, given to getting the tape twisted when it had been in the hands of a few clumsy idiots. It recorded in stereo but you often only got one channel, if you could make the thing utter at all...
It used to impress Northern housewife respondents no end, seeing all this equipment and stereo mikes being set up and tripped over. Made them feel what they had to say was important.
They had always been recruited by run-of-the-mill interviewers. Then they were put in a hotel lounge or suite with Dr Strangelove (me). Made some of them shy and terrified.
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Yes, it was taped. Apparently the Times have released a transcript and an audio recording which verify the headlines.
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...assuming she said...
No assumption required; it's all here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36752865
Was broadcast on the R4 news this morning.
Quite a lot has been made of her claim that she was hand-picked for the team that saved the world after Barings collapsed in 1995, when in fact she was just in the building while the team did its work without her. I don't think that's fair or necessary; the lies we should be concerned about are the much bigger, more blatant and recent ones she told as a spokesperson for the Leave campaign.
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>> Likewise, has anyone else noticed Theresa May's claims from her supporters that she is an
>> intensely private person and guards her private life from the media with a passion only
>> to find her, after all these years, speaking about her 'grief' at not being able
>> to have children?
FFS, she didn't go on camera to talk of her family; she was obliged to respond to questions after Leadsom's remarks.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 9 Jul 16 at 21:49
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Save breath to cool porridge, Bromp. It's wasted on that one.
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>> she was obliged to respond to questions after Leadsom's remarks. <<
She spoke about it last weekend....before Leadsom's remarks!
Pat
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Surely what's much more important than what Mrs L did or didn't say is that she simply hasn't got enough experience of government to be Prime Minister. OK, nor did David Cameron have any such experience when he became Conservative leader - but he then had five years as leader of the opposition, which is better than nothing. Maybe his comparative inexperience led him to the mistake of allowing an unnecessary referendum: he could have won the 2015 election without that undertaking.
For most responsible jobs we need training, through qualification and / or experience. It's unfortunate, to say the least, that politicians are often thrust into high level decision-making without either. No wonder so many of them make a pigs' breakfast of their job.
I'm lucky enough to know Theresa May: she is a regular churchgoer at the church where I used to be organist before moving here to Dorset. (She's the only person in my 50 years as an organist who has ever asked me to play anything faster.) Unlike some, she went into politics for the right reasons, and I'm sure is the right person to lead us through an uncertain period which was not of her making.
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Stephen Crabb has decided that the top job is not for him, either now or at anytime in the future -
www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/14609068.Married_MP_Crabb_accused_of_sending_sex_texts_to_young_woman/
Oh dear.
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Any Party which chooses a former banker as Leader is nuts. The word "banker" is synonymous with the 2008 Crash.
So if Leadsom is elected, I shall vote Labour - irrespective of whether Corbyn is Leader or not..
To elect someone who was a banker shows a willful ignorance of the perceptions of voters and deserves a comeuppance.
Last edited by: madf on Sat 9 Jul 16 at 20:21
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I can't blame you. Didn't those voting for Brexit have a managed risk we'd end up with her. Or Boris. Or Gove. Or Fox.... It was likely to be one of those against the likes of May.
You did all look at the risks...
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I would rather have May any day.
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I would rather Cameron or Clegg
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What about Corbyn as Conservative Party leader.
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>>
>> To elect someone who was a banker
>>
She wasn't "a banker". She has exaggerated her role, and appears to have actually been someone's assistant, not a manager in charge of billions of pounds.
"Banker" is one of those designations that has come down in the world, It used once to mean a partner in a bank - ie a banker was someone who owned a bank, like Mr Banks in Mary Poppins when he became a partner.
Now it seems to apply to anyone who works in a bank.
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>>She's the only person
>> in my 50 years as an organist who has ever asked me to play anything
>> faster.
Did she shout "Avanti!" ?
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"She's the only person in my 50 years as an organist who has ever asked me to play anything faster."
Reminds me of the Hoffnung cartoon in which the organist is depicted as a slightly bizarre individual who has got carried away with the power of the machine he's in control of:
uk.pinterest.com/pin/561331541026363815/
(Note: motoring connection)
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Gerard Hoffnung was a great man ('I was called Gerard after my father and Hoffnung.... after Gerard'), who died much too young. My favourite cartoon is the one with the organist looking in his mirror and seeing a police car - that could easily be me.
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Hoffnung was an immigrant who added a little cheer to the UK after the war. A genius who if he had lived longer could have been one of our top entertainers.
youtu.be/zZUJLO6lMhI
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The Rupert and Govey Show:
Rupert: How many votes did you get Govey?
Govey: Gorty-gix. Gye-gye egerygody...
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>> ... My favourite cartoon is the one with the organist looking in his mirror and seeing a police car - that could easily be me.
So, the next time they stop you, Avant, all you need to say is "Officer, are you aware that I'm Teresa May's organist?"
:-))
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...given her rep with the boys in blue, I wouldn't recommend it...... ;-)
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" My favourite cartoon is the one with the organist looking in his mirror and seeing a police car - that could easily be me."
Er... that was the point I was trying to make.
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Sorry David Cameron all is forgiven.
I would rather pick you David than any other candidate for the leader of the Conservative Party.
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>> Sorry David Cameron all is forgiven.
>>
>> I would rather pick you David than any other candidate for the leader of the
>> Conservative Party.
>>
I wouldn't trust his judgment, he is the one that got us in to this mess in the first place!
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Lack of attention to detail?
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The referendum vote was in the 2015 Conservative Party General Election manifesto.
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>> The referendum vote was in the 2015 Conservative Party General Election manifesto.
>>
He would have authorised the manifesto.
He called the referendum.
He must take a lot of the blame!
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...but the Great British Public voted in it
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Blow me down! Realized she wasn't up to it and blamed the rest of us for pointing it out.
So at least it's the devil we know.
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>> So at least it's the devil we know.
Maybe. Some commentators are suggesting the 1922 committee needs to find another candidate to put to Membership.
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Really??
Why is leading the Out campaign such a hard gig that no-one from their own side wants to do it?
Rhetorical - I know the answer :-)
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I think a few would like to do it but they've been pushed aside, rather than not want it.
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Are they contributors here by any chance? :-)
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Who knows who anyone really is on here?
;-)
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...I know who I am.. (when the meds have kicked in ;-) )
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I know the election has been called off as Leadsom has given up...
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>> I know the election has been called off as Leadsom has given up...
Probably, there seems to be a conundrum about need for a candidate to put to a vote but they're not sure what exactly rules say. Chair of the 1922 committee presently on radio 5 live and sounds a bit uncertain. Not suggesting a full re-run though.
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Places May, the newly crowned Janus of Westminster, in a difficult position. If Parliament are against the folly of Brexit, as they appear to be currently, then her tenure as PM will be brief. I suppose she could seek cover for invoking Art. 50 using supposed prerogative powers (risky), but there remains the knotty problem of primary legislation to revoke or annul ECA 72.
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Latest update on Beeb Live Update is headlined "Lib Dem leader: 'Britain deserves better than this Tory stitch up'"
How many can name the LibDem leader without looking it up? I know I can't!
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Tim Farron. Not that that makes him prime minister material. Good for him to find his voice, though.
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"There must be an election," says Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron in a statement.
"The Conservatives must not be allowed to ignore the electorate, their mandate is shattered and lies in ruins. Britain deserves better than this Tory stitch up.
“May has not set out an agenda, and has no right to govern. She has not won an election and the public must have their say.
“From her time as home secretary we know she is divisive, illiberal and calculating."
Needs a bit of explaining to make sense, if it does.
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Needs a bit of explaining to make sense, if it does.
>>
I guess it's the same argument around the time that blair handed over to brown. Different circumstances but similar argument.
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>> I guess it's the same argument around the time that blair handed over to brown.
>> Different circumstances but similar argument.
SO he should have said it when Cameron 'resigned'. Perhaps he did.
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SO he should have said it when Cameron 'resigned'. Perhaps he did.
>>
Probably keeping it till it became more obvious who/how it was getting handed over.
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>> I guess it's the same argument around the time that blair handed over to brown.
>> Different circumstances but similar argument.
There has never been any need for a new party leader taking over as PM to seek an immediate mandate. Not for Home, nor Callaghan, Major or Brown. Equally, tradition demands opposition call for an election.
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>> Equally, tradition demands opposition call for an election.
>>
So Tim Farron and his gang of eight are the opposition then?
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>> So Tim Farron and his gang of eight are the opposition then?
My comment was a wider one, typed while listening to a Labour MP calling for and election. I think though you'll find Tim Farron sits on the opposition rather than the government benches.
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>> My comment was a wider one, typed while listening to a Labour MP calling for
>> and election. I think though you'll find Tim Farron sits on the opposition rather than
>> the government benches.
>>
I am quite aware where he sits in parliament.
www.parliament.uk states
"The Opposition, formally known as Her Majesty's Official Opposition, refers to the largest political party in the House of Commons that is not in government. The leader of this party takes the title Leader of the Opposition"
Where does Mr Corbyn stand on the question of a General Election?
Labour, like the Tories, do not want an election right now.
I suspect the SNP are in the same boat, since they can only really go downwards.
I think the lib dems and possibly UKIP and the greens are the only people who really want an early election.
Last edited by: commerdriver on Mon 11 Jul 16 at 14:38
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> There has never been any need for a new party leader taking over as PM
>> to seek an immediate mandate. Not for Home, nor Callaghan, Major or Brown. Equally, tradition
>> demands opposition call for an election.
>>
Pretty much yes, i wonder this time though?
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Maybe. I'm just enjoying the moment for the mental image of Westpig - wherever he's got to - biting through his truncheon.
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Cos he really does not like Theresa May.
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>> Cos he really does not like Theresa May.
>>
Missed that one. Thanks.
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...at least he wont have to bend over backwards to do that. ;-)
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>> "There must be an election," says Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron in a statement.
>>
As I read it, this can only happen if
a 2/3 of the MPs in Westminster vote for one or
b A majority of MPs pass a vote of no confidence in the Government
apart from the numbers involved making either unlikely does he, or anyone else, think any group of MPs will have the courage to put their continued employment at risk.
(OK, the lib-dems may figure they can't do any worse than last time)
Even if there could be enough of an idea on what to stand for in an election campaign.
Can't see it without a lot of political change beforehand.
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I think we will end up with a General Election ahead of time, but I'd hate to even try guessing when. Lord knows which party would win though. The thought of a UKIP government fills me with dread, and I suspect the markets would too.
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>>(OK, the lib-dems may figure they can't do any worse than last time)
The Lib Dems would, I think, do rather better than last time, as they are the only equivocally pro-Europe party (with the SNP).
But 'leave' we voted, so 'leave' we must. Anything else would be undemocratic - and is why we are in this mess anyway; treating the poor with disrespect.
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>>and is why we are in this mess anyway; treating the poor with disrespect. <<
And with remarks like that I'm just surprised it hasn't happened years ago.
....but then we've never had a PM promise something he never thought he'd have to deliver until this one, have we.
Remind me again why we have to pay him so much?
What was it you all told me a few years back?
....to get someone with the necessary abilities to do the job?:)
The Remain whingers should be directing their anger at him, no-one else.
He looked after number one, and totally failed to see, or understand, the feeling increasing in the country, and never even had a contingency plan for if the Leave vote won.
Well, he did....get out quick, what a star!
Pat
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Nothing stopping you trying to be an MP Pat.
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Surely you and WdeB are far more qualified than me?
Pat
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Depends on what you believe the criteria to be.
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Not sure if was setting the trend for the Outies or following it. At least he stood by his convictions!!
I have a hunch if he'd stayed you'd be calling for his blood anyway.
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>>>Remind me again why we have to pay him so much?<<<
But we dont! "The combined ministerial and parliamentary salary of the Prime Minister is £143,462 at April 2016. This figure includes the parliamentary salary of £74,962."
There is an old saying, " Pay peanuts, get monkeys.'
Maybe better than peanuts, but you are not going to attract top quality experienced candidates unless the ego trip is a primary reason. And then look what you end up getting!
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£143,462? So that is about £700 per day?
You wouldn't get a decent business consultant for that, but you want a good Prime Minister for it?
I think you really need to revisit your assessment of the real world.
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>>£143,462? So that is about £700 per day?
Job security (ahhahahahhhahaha - yeah I know) for 5 years, foreign/local travel and holidays included, not bad pension and the ability to make millions per year after 'retirement' and presumably a lifelong security detail.
I'd revisit your assessment of the value of the PM's Job.
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> She has
>> not won an election and the public must have their say.
>>
Nick Clegg wasn't elected deputy prime minister either. Was that a Tory stitch-up too?
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Nick Clegg wasn't elected deputy prime minister either. Was that a Tory stitch-up too?
Nor was David Cameron. He was the leader of the majority party at the last general election, but unless you live in Witney, you didn't get to vote for him. If you voted for a conservative candidate, you were in effect voting for him but that was as far as it went.
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>> Nick Clegg wasn't elected deputy prime minister either. Was that a Tory stitch-up too?
>>
>> Nor was David Cameron. He was the leader of the majority party at the last
>> general election,
>>
That's how a representative democracy works - we elect representatives who then chose a leader.
I made the Nick Clegg reference because it was the leader of the Lib-Dems who was questioning this. Was he complaining when the procedure put the Lib-Dems in office?
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Tory Leadership thread Vol 1 - WillDeBeest
