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On-going Debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 24 Jun 16 at 01:14
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Nothing we haven't covered here but neatly summarized in one place. You know it makes sense. Yes, even you.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/we-must-remain-final-plea-undecided
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"I am still Vote Remain."
You have a few hours to re-consider the arguments, Fluffo - and then sleep on it.
Then see how you feel about things before you cast your vote.
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He's got time for another 7 opinions yet.
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People can post all the links they want, give all the opinions they want but I think we've long passed the point where anyone is going to change their mind.
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Telegraph have Leave two points ahead in the pools.
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Rightly or wrongly, I'm going to vote leave, assuming Jet2 get me home in time.
No one amongst my friends back home knows this ...We don't discuss politics or religion, but please indulge me as to how I reached this conclusion.
Almost 20 years ago I was in a pretty happy relationship with the exex. We were a good team business wise, playing to one another's strengths & weaknesses. Nice, very enjoyable holidays together, and apart ( me skiing, she doing more cultural stuff). But after16+ years the passion & first flush of lust had gone. We got on really well with our relevant in laws, and indeed were far happier than many married friends who were simply going through the motions. We ate together, shared the marital bed, had a lovely house, but after due consideration thought that we could do better apart. Her parents were amazed, and our friends thought it was a sick sad joke. But we got divorced. We ended up with half a house each, she returned home to parents, I rented for two years in a grotty part of a west Yorks mill town. It was hard. Financially & emotionally, but she found a new partner and I upped sticks and with a blind leap of faith bought a property 30 miles away where I knew nobody. It added two hours to my daily commute but I got through it and made lots of new friends. Fast forward.... Things are fine between us. When I am away she makes sure my mum is ok. Her parents can ring me anytime should they need if she is away. Meanwhile, our friends from our previous lives, are still in their same old relationships. Most have children, now moved away. Some didn't have children. We still see them, sometimes socialise with them, and both herself and me agree that we are happy we did what we did, unlike several of our friends who are plainly u happy but cannot make the tough decision to do anything about it. We did, and after short term pain, are glad we did.
This is only a microcosm of the Leave/Remain debate is we both see it, and I could be talking cobblers. Thanks for indulging me good people.
And immigration didn't come into it! Although the fact the EU has these unelected commissioners and unsigned off accounts niggles me some what.
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>> Rightly or wrongly, I'm going to vote leave, assuming Jet2 get me home in time.
There will no doubt be some who'll post a response assuming they know best... and picking apart your reasoning.
Bottom line is, your choice, your vote.
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And just in case anyone was wondering, I was completely stone cold sober when I wrote the above... Now it time for the first drink of the day. A cold refreshing litre bottle of Dorado.
Sorry if I have gone down in your estimation AC, I appreciate the sun is well over the yard arm!
It won't happen again
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>> Rightly or wrongly, I'm going to vote leave, assuming Jet2 get me home in time.
The highlighted bit might be the burr in he blanket.......
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 22 Jun 16 at 19:54
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Well, I'm going to allow myself a Columbo moment now the end is near, I've read pretty much every post on here on the subject, some with no small measure of dismay, some of which have challenged my own thoughts, some of which reinforced them.
Now I'm just a regular guy, not politically active, I have some views, I guess some of those are influenced by my environment and life experiences. And yes, I intend to vote for what I think best provides the long term outlook for me and my family. Sort of the point of having a vote isn't it?
I've watched as many of the broadcast debates as I was able to, I've read as much in a deliberate variety of publications as I can on the subject because I know, even though I'm just a little tiny cog it it all, that this is quite important.
So, here's where I am, nothing, nothing at all about the leave campaign makes any kind of sense to me or begins to convince me that it's anything other than a platform for people I don't really feel comfortable with. I won't bother to list the reasons why, that has been covered ad nauseam by others.
I shall be voting remain, without a shred of doubt or regret as to whether that is my true view.
Over and out on this one, thank goodness it ends soon.
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Well said Runfer
No matter what the outcome, I shall continue to try and live my life as that lady in the Water Babies '' Mrs doasyouwere done by' or something similar.
Apologies to C Kingsley esq
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LL, you sound a teriffic geezer, but I think making your decison on the basis of that poor analogy is very foolish.
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Personally I think it a relevant analogy given my own circumstances, but I the cerebral stakes I missed the first ski lift of the day! I have always taken chances, sometimes they have worked out, sometimes not, but I have always stood by the results, and borne them like a man.
As shall not sulk if the result is Remain, and continue to help old ladies across the road and those less fortunate than me whenever possible.
My biggest hope, and fear, is that it doesn't spoil friendships, which are a valuable human thing.
Buenos noches amigos, that Dorado beer is overdue.
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To start with LL, your separation was mutual. The rest of Europe has no say in this. Also, you were not gambling with anyone's livelihood but your own.
Totally irrelevant analogy.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 22 Jun 16 at 20:07
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1 Actually life seems OK for most at the moment. Not really sure what the Outies are so upset about. Those I speak to mostly don't either. Those who have a reason say they don't like immigrants
2 Geographically, culturally, economically, historically we are part of Europe. I feel English and European
3 In my experience if you want to change something the best way is from the inside.
4 I like the idea that my children and grandchildren can live and get a job anywhere in Europe
5 The thought of years of haggling and arguments to get back to where we are now appals me.
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>>
>> So, here's where I am, nothing, nothing at all about the leave campaign makes any
>> kind of sense to me or begins to convince me that it's anything other than
>> a platform for people I don't really feel comfortable with. I won't bother to list
>> the reasons why, that has been covered ad nauseam by others.
>>
I too have already voted remain and would express similar sentiments, had to courier my vote back because it took 18 days to reach Aus, never felt anything was this important before, I don't bother with other elections.
I'll recount a conversation with my daughter in the car this morning on the way to (secondary) school. Listening to the ABC RN (cf BBC R4) there were a number of prominent Leavers/Remainers being interviewed. She asked why 'old people could vote when young people couldn't yet it was their future at stake' ? We chatted about the age of majority etc. she sees the world differently, she has lived on three continents, has friends from all corners of the world and cannot understand the world views of Leave campaigners.
I voted for her, her cousins and her friends back home. Leave jeopardises their future, period.
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I mentioned in previous post that I learnt English as foreign language so my grammar is indeed bit different from that of native English speakers.
Now coming back to the topic. Putting aside all numbers game, what I am still struggling to understand why most politicians, big organizations etc. so much willing to keep us within EU.
Even if I assume there will be economic impact (though I don't believe it will be case of leave), what can happen in the worst case?
There won't be world war 3, people won't die of hunger, there won't be riots in street. In fact whatever side wins, very unlikely that it will drastically affect our lives.
Are they worried because their £10 million net worth might come down to £9 million?
I don't believe that their hearts bleed for common people :o)
Or they simply can't accept the fact that common people have shown the audacity to disobey their dictat?
Are they frightened that common people are taking control of UK's future in their own hands rather than simply following their orders?
And those who are voting to remain, why you are even afraid of economic consequences?
I know no one will change their decisions now, but still it will be interesting to know what is going on everyone's mind.
To summarize my reasons for voting to leave:
1. To put some control around immigration (I prefer a point based system - that's how I came to UK) thus no special treatment to any country.
2. I think UK will be able to do better economically outside UK as there will be more flexibility to have trade agreements with other countries (e.g. BRIC nations).
3. I think good standard of living is directly linked with low population density (related to #1)
4. Even if "leaving EU" means "uncertain" future I feel it is a gamble worth taking (our soldiers don't mind getting killed or losing limbs in battles. I am not that brave I admit, but I don't mind if I lose my job for this adventure - I lost job before and I know it is not end of the world).
5. I want lower house price - especially for my next generation.
6. I think being outside EU, UK has a better chance of reviving its manufacturing industry.
Best wishes for whatever side you support.
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>> 5. I want lower house price - especially for my next generation.
So you want house price deflation - so a lot of people will have negative equity and therefore be unable to move when they need/want to.
>> 6. I think being outside EU, UK has a better chance of reviving its manufacturing industry.
I think it will have the opposite effect. Around 50% of our exports go to the EU countries. Leaving the EU might make us less competitive. When the next investment is needed at Nissan/Toyota/Honda/BMW car plants.... what happens if it goes to a EU location instead? Hey they might even get an EU grant to help them move.
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>> >>
>> So you want house price deflation - so a lot of people will have negative
>> equity and therefore be unable to move when they need/want to.
>>
>> >>>>
I don't think people who can't get a foothold on the housing ladder because of high prices are too worried about those who already are and will just have to wait a few years longer before they can move.
That one works both ways.
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>> People can post all the links they want, give all the opinions they want but
>> I think we've long passed the point where anyone is going to change their mind.
>>
I wouldn't be too sure, on the news today there was a report saying 10-15% of voters are still undecided.
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"Nothing we haven't covered here"
Thanks for the link, Will; you were right - there was nothing new, so I turned to the comments below. I could scarcely believe what I was reading - I thought the Grauniad was home to the latte-supping lefties, but the vast majority of the comments were advocating 'leave'. Is this why you're so bad-tempered these days?
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I seldom go below the line anywhere these days. Reminds me too much of here.
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The comments section of the Guardian has been targeted by the right wing conspiracy anti-commie fruitcake contingent. Not "UK Conservative", but frequently hangers-on of US or other factions of far recht persuasion. Their style has even infected me!
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Wed 22 Jun 16 at 21:03
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>> The comments section of the Guardian has been targeted by the right wing conspiracy anti-commie
>> fruitcake contingent.
Thanks N2. Was about to compose a message on same lines
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Just playing devils advocate.If the vote is out that will put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Shock horror in the rest of Europe.The Dutch want a referendum.The Swedes are restless and the Italians want to put their elbow in.
Exciting times.
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I believe the vote will be to Remain in the European Union.
To vote to leave is too dangerous.
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Certainly is. WillDeBeest might be lurking outside the polling station.
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You never know fluffy danger is everywhere.
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>> Just playing devils advocate.If the vote is out that will put the cat amongst the
>> pigeons.
>>
>> Shock horror in the rest of Europe.The Dutch want a referendum.The Swedes are restless and
>> the Italians want to put their elbow
Reminds me of the terrible consequences of the platypus who laid an egg at the Bulgarian Legation.
This unexpected action caused unheard—of inconvenience,
A breach at once occurred between the Turks and the Armenians;
The Greeks poured ultimata, quite unhinged by the mishap, at him;
The Poles began to threaten and the Finns began to flap at him;
The Swedes withdrew entirely from the Anglo-Saxon dailies
The right of photographing the Aurora Borealis;
And, all attempts to come to a rapprochement proving barren,
The Japanese in self-defence annexed the Isle of Arran.
My platypus, once thought to be more cautious and more tentative
Than any other living diplomatic representative,
Was now a sort of warning to all diplomatic students-
The perfect incarnation of the perils of imprudence.
Beset and persecuted by the forces of reaction O,
He reaped the consequences of his ill-considered action O;
And, branded in the Honours List as Platypus, Dame Vera,
Retired, a lonely figure, to lay eggs at Bordighera.
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"The comments section of the Guardian has been targeted"
Well, blow me down - there was I thinking that the Grauniadisti had come to their senses.
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If we vote to leave, we'll still be in the EU in 2018. Whether we can extend membership whilst we negotiate treaties I don't know. And then you're out.
What happens if we haven't got agreement in place before we have to leave? Do any of those advocating leave know?
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Voted in the morning. The polling booth was deserted. I was only voter with a lone employee!
I think only out voters were excited about it.
For remainers it is just another day, so they will cast votes on way to picking up bread at evening.
Edit: Weather is horrible at the moment. Is it going to cause swing to any side?
Last edited by: movilogo on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 08:22
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Edit: Weather is horrible at the moment. Is it going to cause swing to any side?
it can do be all accounts. It can put off the casual voter.
Btw where abouts are you, the weather is lovely already around here.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 08:28
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Depends whether it's damp enough to interfere with mobility scooters. To a first approximation Outies can vote when they like, whereas Remainers have to fit it in with work and family responsibilities. So a showery day favours the Outies.
Our polling station is in the leisure centre next to the local secondary school. In the mornings there are always kids in uniform hanging around waiting to go in to school. Today's gaggle - female, 14-15 - were quietly chanting 'Vote In' at arriving voters. 75 percent of under-18s agree with them. Quite right: it's their future.
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Expert opinion is divided on the effect of weather or whether it matters at all.
Even if you are right about the virtuous right thinking workers voting in, and the workless spongers out, it's arguably just as easy for the former to vote on the way to or from work, with the polling stations open until 10pm.
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My point was that if people have a narrow window to vote in, they're more likely to be put off altogether by a shower, whereas others can wait till the rain stops.
Of those with a choice, we have 1.7 million unemployed - spongers or not, I don't know, nor do you - and 10 million over-65s. So, to a first approximation...
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Just been past the polling station, saw a couple of pensioners coming out...in the rain!
Out is probably the prevalent view here. To the point where, as an instinctive debater, I find myself putting the Remain case.
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Hard to tell if the Telegraph is afraid of foreigners or just of modern life. Laughable. Pass the marmalade, Marjorie.
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Good god, does anyone actually believe the rubbish in the Telegraph?
I'll confess I'm a outie, but some of the 'points' they make would be exactly the same whether we were in or out. Article is written by somebody living in the 1960s, and certainly not 2016. Mind you, if the real reason was encourage voting remain, perhaps that why, 20 'reasons' that are mostly laughable.
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It has the best rubbish of the general dailies. However, the specialist FT has generously offered referendum coverage free for today at:
www.ft.com/home/uk
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I already have a 'proper' (2kw) vacuum cleaner. I don't have any recycling bins. I still use 'proper' light bulbs and,
I'm having turkey for dinner tonight.!
:}
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>> Hard to tell if the Telegraph is afraid of foreigners or just of modern life.
>> Laughable. Pass the marmalade, Marjorie.
>>
You're starting to come across as a bitter old prat.
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My vacuum cleaner is a Henry.I don't mind recycling and if these are the twenty reasons to vote out go ahead.
Britain will still be part of the E.U tomorrow.
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Because I want to drag the country back to the 1950s? Oh, wait, that's not me, is it?
Bitter is the wrong word. I'm angry about the nonsense you lot are putting us through.
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>> You're starting to come across as a bitter old prat.
>>
Starting?
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Lady A and I have decided that we will look in to the possibility of moving to Scotland if it's a Leave vote. We wish to live inside the EU and benefit from the opportunities for work and freedom of movement it offers us and our children, and it's highly likely that a 'Leave EU' vote will trigger a 'Leave UK and Rejoin EU' vote in Scotland. We would favour the Edinburgh area for work and cultural reasons. If I were living in Scotland in a non-EU UK, I would then regretfully vote for Scottish Independence from the UK and remaining in the EU.
I expect other high tax rate payers of working age will feel similar, particularly those from other EU countries who are here paying their taxes, and there will be a drain of higher earners from England. Enjoy the Pensioners' Paradise, whilst you watch your pensions collapse in value.
My vote has been cast on the way to work this morning. Remain. I don't want the scenario above to unfold, but if it does, I am already making plans.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a new movement emerging for London to become a City State independent of England, either. London (as Scotland) will be around 75% Remain, I'd guess.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 10:36
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Nice weather here. Voted at 9:40am.
Steady stream to and for - as last GE.
I gave up years ago on the DT: lots of opinions and few facts. Either designed to sell tehe goods it advertises or pander to nouveau riche or those living in the 1960s. Read it free on line.
We buy it twice a week for the puzzles.
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Well I've just been twice to place my "X". The first time I noticed there was only Pencils to use, call me Euro-sceptic if you like but I'm sure on a vote of this magnitude that the Gov will have ensured that several "Counters" will have been issued with rubbers!! so I went home and got a Pen! - why don't they use some form of un-eraseable markers to mark the forms? - it leaves it wide-open to rigging!!
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When did the first symptoms of this paranoia come on?
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Yeah, nobody would ever spot dozens of people with massive rubbers changing all the votes before giving them to someone else to count, and the counters would never notice the imprints and rubber debris on the ballots and every single person in every polling station is in on some massive conspiracy which nobody else will ever twig to make sure you don't get your way.
Jesus Christ.
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Filled with green ink, no doubt.
Apparently it's A Thing: www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36597367
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 11:01
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Ah so I'm not the only one then! - at least that's good to know! :-) seriously tho' why Pencils?
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>> Ah so I'm not the only one then! - at least that's good to know!
>> :-) seriously tho' why Pencils?
>>
So you can shove them up your nose, put your underpants on your head and shout 'Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom".
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Traditional. As used in the 1950s.
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>> seriously tho' why Pencils?
If they're good enough for Soviet Astronauts, then they're good enough for us.
What's with all this voting today though. I did mine at least a couple of weeks ago by post. I thought some people wanted to get away from the 60's.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 12:48
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...good enough for Soviet Astronauts...
If an Outie offers you a fact...
www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/
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French-Connection-UK me.
England: the East will vote Leave. The North, 50/50. The South and the West will vote Remain. London: Remain. Wales: Remain. Scotland: Remain. NI: Remain.
Result = Remain.
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Dog is in the wrong part of the country then as am I. Will we have to move?
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If the country votes Leave, you can join me in the People's European Soviet Socialist Vassal Republic of Scotland. Dog can stay in his cave.
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>>Dog is in the wrong part of the country then as am I. Will we have to move?
Leaning Eurosceptic - according to this small sample size:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3652901/Are-neighbours-Interactive-map-reveals-Eurosceptic-areas-Britain-ahead-EU-referendum.html
Been looking at property in Cumbria :) and Plymouth :( over the last 24 hours.
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>> was only Pencils to use, call me Euro-sceptic if you like but I'm sure on
I trust you took a tin foil hat too in case there were beams to bend your thought process.
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IIRC our Polling Boothes have always given us pencils to record our X. That must explain why the person I vote for never gets elected!!
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" .. IIRC our Polling Boothes have always given us pencils to record our X. That must explain why the person I vote for never gets elected!! .. "
Many a true word .....
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Oh my God!
loads of people actually believe this stuff
www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36597367
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 10:59
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Voted LEAVE - done my duty as far as I can.
I've never seen our local polling station so busy!
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>> Oh my God!
>>
>> loads of people actually believe this stuff
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36597367
>>
Rubbing out a pencil mark would leave a trace, surely - that would probably mean a spoilt paper being declared. Time alone would rule out mass alterations in any case.
I used an indelible Sharpie, as it happened - shows up well and less chance of a mistake by a harried and tired counting clerk.
OTH - what happened to the missing (for 7 hours IIRC) ballot boxes in the G.E. at South Thanet?
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 11:46
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>> OTH - what happened to the missing (for 7 hours IIRC) ballot boxes in the
>> G.E. at South Thanet?
My theory is that it slipped through the space time continuum after aliens observing the poll disturbed the local gravitational vortex.
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I used invisible ink to fill in my polling card - you can't be too careful in this day and age.!
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Looks like a good turnout, many polling stations are saying it's the highest turnout they've seen.
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Certainly seems busier than last time out for the Police & Crime Commissioner.
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One polling station has had more voters before than they had all day at the last general election.
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>> One polling station has had more voters before than they had all day at the
>> last general election.
Went at 08:00 before setting off for work. Steady stream of others doing same thing.
Voted Remain.
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Just been to ours, seemed busy but I've never voted here before in person, so difficult to judge. More people than I've ever seen with polling cards in hand walking around though.
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" ..Looks like a good turnout, many polling stations are saying it's the highest turnout they've seen. .."
Good, at least if you "lose" you will know it's a genuine result
(my polling station, at around midday, reported "sporadic bursts" of voters), similar to the last general election.
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A local food blog got in to the spirit of the neverendum this week:
rdrdg.co.uk/
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According to the Telegraph (via Google News) prepare for Fun! - A light-hearted report on the pro's and cons! :-)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/how-the-eu-referendum-could-lead-to-a-zombie-apocalypse-by-chris/
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I am involved with managing another forum, a little larger than this one as there's around 18,000 members with about 2,000 of them regularly active.
I have yet to see any significant support for Leave. There is a vocal minority, clones of Dodgy Rodg and Dog really, but such a tiny minority and generally reviled by all.
I really hope that's more representative than this place.
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We both voted remain about an hour ago, doing our duty to society.
It'll be interesting to see how close the result is. Don't think I'll be staying up all night though.
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I saw a report that expected the result to be available at breakfast time.
Meanwhile... (NSFW, even with the bleeps).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8
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Yep, no result until about 5/6am. No need to stay up. I shall sleep well tonight.
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Not much to stay up for, really, not like a general election, where meaningful results come in one by one throughout the night. This is all or nothing.
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>> I am involved with managing another forum, a little larger than this one as there's
>> around 18,000 members with about 2,000 of them regularly active.
>>
>> I have yet to see any significant support for Leave. There is a vocal minority,
>> clones of Dodgy Rodg and Dog really, but such a tiny minority and generally reviled
>> by all.
>>
>> I really hope that's more representative than this place.
>>
>>
That depends on the forum and the social class it attracts. Among what used to be described as the working class the people I know both here and back in the south east are overwhelmingly for leave.
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Difficult to know. From a financial or class perspective I don't think it has any particular bias, but it is probably true to say that it attracts people who are more "internationally aware".
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This part of the Westcountry seems very firmly 'out', although I've seen a couple of 'remain' signs on my travels.
Not just the oldies either, both my nieces are very firm on the subject (21 and 19), as was the young girl who cut my hair this morning (approx 20).
Had a few people around for a barbecue 2 weekends ago... very firm 'out,' all of them.
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Do any of your Out contacts say why they take that view?
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another forum I'm in is running a poll, they are 75% leave at the moment. Locally, work and family, politics is hardly ever talked about. I wouldn't even like to guess for the vast majority of them.
across the area/county almost certainly leave. Its a ukip/con stronghold.
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>> Do any of your Out contacts say why they take that view?
>>
Similar to mine, but considerably more firm.
Immigration wasn't mentioned much, UK autonomy was.
One chap is the owner of a small/medium business that deals a lot with companies abroad. He's just picked up a contract with a company in Poland. When asked if he was concerned about deals like that being more difficult he said.... 'no, the Germans won't allow trade with us to become difficult and even if it did, a deal with a company in Poland whilst important is not more important than my country, there'll be other deals'.
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Best summed up as "La la la, not listening" then?
And what on earth does 'not more important than my country' mean? I can't help thinking this whole contest would be a lot less close if people stopped to question the Outie line that there's something heroic about taking a leap in the dark.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 16:18
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It's very simple. It just means that some think that the UK shouldn't share sovereignty in the way that being a member of the EU necessitates.
I'm sure you can see that, even though you might quite reasonably think it is acceptable?
>>" ...the Outie line that there's something heroic about taking a leap in the dark"
I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that. Do you mean what you think is a leap in the dark?
Why don't Remainers stop to question the assumption that everything will carry on as it is if we stay in the EU?
It's easy just to dump on somebody else's view with what is nothing more than rhetoric.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 23 Jun 16 at 16:50
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If leave loses, then we'll never come to know how life would have been outside the EU.
If we leave EU then after few years one can compare easily life inside and outside the EU.
But maintaining status quo means we can't ever answer the question because we have never experienced the other side.
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Maybe it would be good for the country to be out for a few years.They will always let you back in if things don't work out.Nothing is black and white in the E.U.
Whatever happens there will be changes in or out the E.U.But don't put all the owners on the Germans when it comes to refugees they are fed up to the teeth with all the problems.
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>> If leave loses, then we'll never come to know how life would have been outside
>> the EU.
>>
>> If we leave EU then after few years one can compare easily life inside and
>> outside the EU.
I don't agree with that. Unfortunately I don't think the consequences of staying in can be known either.
In any case, wanting to find out what happens isn't a very good reason to leave.
It's partly because both futures are unknown that I think we would be a bit better placed if we had more freedom of action.
The desperate threats and pleadings from Juncker et al are really just the sound of another can being kicked down the road. The EU isn't looking at all strong just now, with widespread disgruntlement and up to 48.9% youth unemployment in the less productive areas of the Eurozone. That cannot hold.
www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
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>> Best summed up as "La la la, not listening" then?
Has it not passed your mind that maybe YOU are the one not listening?
If people have fears, then those fears need to be addressed. Talking down to people or ridiculing them doesn't do it...and neither does an endless stream of self important posts presuming that your way is the correct way..and everyone else is wrong.
Has it not occurred to you that there's one helluva chunk of the population think contrary to you, in your world are they all wrong?
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>> And what on earth does 'not more important than my country' mean?
Well take a wild guess.
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Blair backed Remain and then ...
tinyurl.com/h3gv9nw
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David Beckham is quoted as saying recently, "We live in a vibrant and connected world where together as a people we are strong." He supports Remain, apparently.
Somehow the association of Beckham with the word "vibrant" seems like some kind of mind-boggling oxymoron.
I'm sure his words will have directed the uncertain as to which way they should vote.
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Five good reasons to vote Remain - WillDeBeest
