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Just on the news, Labour MP Jo Cox was shot at her constituency by a man who shouted "Britain First" before shooting her twice.
Sky is saying she is critical.
I truly hope she makes a full recovery!
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 18 Jun 16 at 20:48
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Me too. And that her assailant leads a particularly unpleasant life from here on.
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Regardless of her politics, this IS awful. (she is a Remainer)
Both In & Out campaigns have suspended campaigning for the afternoon.
If this IS a political statement (and I devoutly hope it is not,as one of the Eagle sisters is spinning,)I equate the vile perpetrator EXACTLY with a loon shouting Allah Akhbar before attacking an innocent.
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Clearly nothing to do with either side of the campaign, and much more probably a sad mental health case. I hope Ms Cox makes a full recovery and her assailant does no more harm.
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Very sad lets' hope she survives a mother of two children.
What a price to pay to have a political opinion.
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Sadly, she has not survived the attack.
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Dreadful news!
I really feel for her husband and children!
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According to the Sun, she is reported to have been trying to intervene in a dispute between two men when the incident occurred.
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From eye witness reports, she was shot a second time from close range when the shooter was over her. Maybe she'd have survived the first shot but this is unbelievable in the UK.
A truly sad day. Thoughts are with her family.
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www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/16/labour-mp-jo-cox-shot-in-west-yorkshire
Gruniad reports he was shouting "Britain First" ...
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 16 Jun 16 at 18:33
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Shooter had history of mental illness.
I wonder how he got a gun.
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>> Shooter had history of mental illness.
>>
>> I wonder how he got a gun.
Perhaps there should be words like alleged or reportedly in this post :-P
Seriously though if he's charged stuff like that on a public site is potentially prejudicial.
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>>Seriously though if he's charged stuff like that on a public site is potentially prejudicial.
How is that? Speculation without knowledge? I don't think so.
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>> How is that? Speculation without knowledge? I don't think so.
Madf's post made statements about 'shooter'. Even without prejudging guilt it was unlikely to comply with 'reporting restrictions'.
Point is about law as it exists, not its rights/wrongs.
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So you think if I pass an opinion as a contributor to an internet forum concerning an incident in which I am not involved and about which I have no non-public knowledge, that I am in breach of some "reporting restrictions"?
What a pile of old cack.
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I believe this shooter obtained his firearm by bribing some aliens who beamed him up to make one on a spare lathe that they had next to their transporters and they bribed him with Mars-Whisky to kill a politician.
Guess that's me for the slammer.
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This will probably give you conniptions. But its all public domain and I have no special access or knowledge and am not seen as any authority and have no privileged position..
heavy.com/news/2016/06/tommy-mair-jo-cox-shooting-suspect-name-britain-first-brexit-eu-jeremy-corbyn-husband-brendan/
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By the way, given how some here have previously seen it as desperately significant that the Muslim community officially condemn, reject and apologise for any crime committed by any Muslim, I assume that British Nationalists, Christians and the Scottish will all be along shortly to do the same for this ***?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 18 Jun 16 at 17:53
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>> What a pile of old cack.
I simply intended to highlight fact that use of word 'shooter' rather than suspect had the potential to cause difficulty for the site's publisher.
Obviously a real world risk assessment says the authorities have bigger fish to fry. Nonetheless it might be sensible to avoid such language.
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>> I simply intended to highlight fact that use of word 'shooter' rather than suspect had the potential to cause difficulty for the site's publisher.
How? How about "psycho, murderng, shooting, stabbing lunatic that killed Jo Cox"?
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>> How? How about "psycho, murderng, shooting, stabbing lunatic that killed Jo Cox"?
You're an ex moderator and I'm sure you understand the point I was trying to make. I'm not getting involved in an argument about it.
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I understand the point you were trying to make, it as just wrong.
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SQ
>> Seriously though if he's charged stuff like that on a public site is potentially prejudicial.
Err
I was reporting what was in a BBC news item. And elsewhere. Public domain stuff.
Some people are OTT..
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 10:10
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>> I was reporting what was in a BBC news item. And elsewhere. Public domain stuff.
I'm certain the BBC and other media will be punctilious about use of words like suspect.
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I'm certain the BBC and other media will be punctilious about use of words like suspect.
Eventually. The media has a bad name for trying to be first with the story and quite often has to revise a webpage a couple of times before getting it right.
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>> I'm certain the BBC and other media will be punctilious about use of words like
>> suspect.
" warped killer, xxxxxx xxxx, whose assassination of Jo Cox "
www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/jo-cox-dont-use-this-tragedy-to-tame-democracy/18470
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Described by police I think as a 'makeshift' weapon.
Doesn't take much igenuity for a metalworker to make a device that will fire a 12 bore cartridge or similar without maiming the shooter. It won't be a gun, but it will project shot at great velocity.
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What happened to MD's note about this subject and my reply to it?
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Quite a few posts have been deleted. I commented about the timeline and her obituary in reply to a post from Dutchie and that's gone. I didn't thing there was anything sensitive in my post!?
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All started when fluffy said: She's dead.
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Jeez, fluffy types in more puerile old crap every day then anyone else in a year, why did that one get hit?
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For a forum with 3 mods and less than 30 active members...? Nothing automatic for sure.
I doubt it's Geoff or Rob. So I can assume Dave has stepped in.
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✂ï¸Dave's at it again then?âœ‚ï¸ It's getting a bit like the Nanny state here.
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How do you know it was Dave?
Funny how the lynch mob guys are also the first to make a kangaroo court.
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This will be linked to the Leave campaign and may cost us this referendum. In fact a Labour MP has started so to do, according to the Daily Mail which never loses the chance to not very subtly smear us.
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Toynbee has already done that in a Guardian article
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>> Toynbee has already done that in a Guardian article
Anybody observing politics will have thought, from the moment the facts began to emerge, 'will this affect the referendum'?
I think it will, at the least by removing momentum from the leave campaign. In reality it will have repercussion beyond that too.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 08:06
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www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/mood-ugly-mp-dead-jo-cox?
A cynical way to make use of a personal tragedy for Jo Cox's family that appears to have resulted from the actions of a mentally ill man.
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according to the Daily Mail which
>> never loses the chance to not very subtly smear us.
>>
I thought the daily wail was for leaving the eu?
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>>This will be linked to the Leave campaign
My thoughts exactly, the bar stewards wont miss a trick if it will help their campaign.
Quite shameful really. If I was a betting man, I'd have a £5 ew punt on the referen dum.
Pretty sure it'll go the way of remain. Stuff it, I voted (postal) leave weeks ago, be interesting to see many of those who voted to remain in the European dictatorship, wishing they hadn't - that I WOULD put money on.
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>> This will be linked to the Leave campaign and may cost us this referendum. In
>> fact a Labour MP has started so to do, according to the Daily Mail which
>> never loses the chance to not very subtly smear us.
>>
As an "In" supporter I can clearly see the difference between the out campaign and Britain First, formerly known as the National Front!
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I can too, Zippy, and so can Polly Toynbee.
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
What she's targeting in the article is the idea in some quarters that politicians are somehow fair game. That's aimed at the campaign as a whole, and doesn't seek to blame one side for the actions of one individual, whose true motivations we do not know.
It's probably a good moment, though, to remind ourselves that, important as this campaign is, the other side is the opposition, not the enemy.
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>>As an "In" supporter I can clearly see the difference between the out campaign and Britain First, formerly known as the National Front! British National Party,
8-)
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Because you told fluffy to eff off because of his comment.She is dead.Which wasn't meant to be disrespectfull me thinks.
Never mind live goes on whilst we are squabbling.
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>> I doubt it's Geoff or Rob. So I can assume Dave has stepped in.
Assume again. I know who it was, and I've asked them to clarify why the post(s) were removed.
I await your apology, btw.
ps, Personally I didn't find anything offensive about Fluffy's comment. It was stating a fact that she was dead. A couple of comments that followed were questionable though.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 10:23
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Bet you'll wait a long while too;)
Pat
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It was me and I apologise...it was close to auto deleting thanks to the thumbs down. Not being able to read fluff's mind I kind of assumed that his reply was placed out of context thanks to the way threads often do. I never delete posts I "hide" them so the other mods can see them and can track what can happen. There was a specific complaint about it. I mailed fluff but haven't had an answer. Fluff knows the score though.
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Killing someone for differing political view is an utterly deplorable act.
I saw the following picture in Daily Mail.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3646316/Pictured-Just-two-days-died-caring-local-MP-Jo-Cox-gives-primary-school-children-talk-good-citizenship.html
The presentation screen reads - What are immigrants and migrants? What's the difference?
Why an MP (who is pro-EU) is preaching kids (who are below 18 anyway as it seems) on immigration?
With all due respect, this is not something I expect an MP to do! It should be the task of an English/Humatities teacher to explain those terms to the kids.
PS: Didn't know that a party called "Britain First" exists before this news!
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She was talking about what makes a good citizen - part of this may be to impart information about immigration.
Afterwards I would expect the primary school teachers to discuss further what was being talked about to encourage the children to use their brains.
Maybe I shouldn't talk to school children about what I do for a living in case I poison them against homeopathy, or turn them into pro-vaccination drones?
;-)
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A good-looking personable woman as well as a virtuous one.
There are some evil perverse idiots around. It's a bit frightening. 'England first' is a hopeless half-witted meaningless aspiration. But it must find an echo with some. It's hard to imagine the emptiness of some heads.
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>> The presentation screen reads - What are immigrants and migrants? What's the difference?
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>> Why an MP (who is pro-EU) is preaching kids (who are below 18 anyway as
>> it seems) on immigration?
They are probably under 18 but the youngsters in the picture are not kids. They're around GCSE age or possibly 6th form. At that age they should be hearing speakers with different perspectives on life and politics. We certainly had guest speakers from world of local politics when I was that age nearly 40 years ago.
I note there's what might be a mock ballot box in foreground and cannot help but wonder if there were other speakers from the 'out' side too.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 14:33
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One positive from the Scottish Referendum (in my humble opinion) was allowing 16-17yr olds to vote - engaging and involving teenagers in the democratic process makes a lot more sense than waiting for them to leave school with no practical experience of it.
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>> One positive from the Scottish Referendum (in my humble opinion) was allowing 16-17yr olds to
>> vote - engaging and involving teenagers in the democratic process makes a lot more sense
>> than waiting for them to leave school with no practical experience of it.
>>
I disagree.
In England, at least, youngsters in schools up and down the country, have been inculcated without cease, on the establishment's ideas of the all encompassing wonderfulness of the European Union. School projects galore testify to this approach.
This has always been a one-sided brain-washing, with little or no input allowed from people who take the opposite view.
Young folk need to get out into the world before becoming mature enough to make decisions based on experience of reality, rather than fluffy ideas that are stuffed into their heads by left leaning one-world teachers and their ilk.
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8< snip. You know why.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 16:47
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>> 8< snip.
After all this time I've finally realised that's supposed to be a pair of scissors. I thought it was some kind of stern smiley face.
[sigh]
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Concision begat excision, so let's try exposition instead.
Perhaps Rog would like to tell us what he considers an acceptable minimum age for voting. Presumably, since by the age of 18 a young person will have been in the hands of the pinko educational establishment for 14 years - with possibly four more to come if they do a degree course that involves (gasp) a year abroad - it should be at least 36 to allow for a balancing amount of bitterness and cynicism to infect them.
But we shouldn't stop there. We know that no more than 50 per cent (if we're very generous) of the population gets the One True Gospel according to Saint Rog. Which means 18 years of adulthood isn't enough and we'll have to double it to compensate. So the new voting age in Roger's (Great again) Britain will be 54. Or is that still too low?
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 17:19
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Maybe the promoters of greater democracy can enlighten us:
www.electoral-reform.org.uk/votes-at-16
I love how UKIP fanboys talk about having a greater say in our own affairs but want to stifle the views/power of their fellow citizens...
Libertarian or Authoritarian?
You decide.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 17:26
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>>I disagree.
>>In England, at least, youngsters in schools up and down the country....... etc
And you, as an 80yr old man want to force upon future generations a vision you won't live to see come to fruition/failure.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 16:47
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>> At that age they should be hearing speakers
>> with different perspectives on life and politics. We certainly had guest speakers from world of
>> local politics when I was that age nearly 40 years ago.
Yes... and look what happened to you..;-)
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By suspending campaigning both IN and OUT sides of the referendum debate are tacitly admitting that this murder was a political attack and as the victim was on the OUT side, thereby implying that the OUT side are subliminally to blame.
We, the Leavers, may well have lost the referendum HERE and NOW.
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 16:28
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What a load of bull Roger.
The campaigning was suspended out of respect from all sides and rightly so.
To try and put an ulterior motive on it is wrong on so many levels.
Surprised at you.
Pat
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 18 Jun 16 at 17:51
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>> Surprised at you.
Finally seeing his true colours, Pat.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 18 Jun 16 at 17:51
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I don't think so Alanovic, I think it's a case of the leave camp thinking they will lose by a narrow margin and using Jo's death as the excuse.
Getting it in early so to speak, and that is oh so wrong.
Pat
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>> Surprised at you.
Trying to think the best of people. I'd like to have been surprised.
I wasn't.
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An attack on one politician will leave others feeling shocked and saddened. It's simple respect to her and her family to pause for a day; it implies no acceptance of responsibility. Whether either side tones down its language when they resume is for them to decide.
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I am shocked and horrified what has happened to Jo Cox.
It seems to me as pure evil to shoot and stab someone on our street in an ordinary town in the UK.
What possessed the man to murder Jo cox.
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The snivelling brute wanted to murder someone to make his piffling 'point' but didn't want to run any personal physical risk.
Poor Jo Cox was perfect for that purpose. I trust the BiB made the geezer suffer a bit while restraining him.
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Consider this an apology :-) Sorry I assumed it was you based on the fact you're the one that usually has to deal with problem posts.
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You were doing really well there rtj with that apology.......until you had to give an excuse:)
Pat
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The news of Jo Cox's death has gone around the world and in France it has been the number one news item on several channels.
At work we have had kind messages from customers and suppliers around Europe much the same way that they did on 7/7.
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"Mair spent more than $620 (£436) on literature from the group, which advocates the creation of an all-white homeland and the eradication of Jewish people.
He bought books that instructed readers on the “chemistry of powder and explosivesâ€, “incendiariesâ€, and a work called Improvised Munitions Handbook. The handbook included detailed instructions on constructing a pipe pistol using parts available in DIY stores.
Receipted items also included Ich Kämpfe, an illustrated handbook issued to members of the Nazi party in 1942."
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/17/jo-cox-suspect-thomas-mair-bought-gun-manuals-from-us-neo-nazis-group-claims
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It is horrifying that Jo Cox was murdered on an ordinary English street.
What is happening to us as a society that murders an elected representative with someone just doing their everyday job.
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Thank the Lord that you support leave, because you've done more for remain than anyone else ever could.
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Save the U.K. and Vote Leave.
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>>Save the U.K. and Vote Leave
Please leave.
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>> Save the U.K. and Vote Leave.
>>
Wrong place wrong time. Even the politicians have suspended campaigning because it is not appropriate! There are dozens of other threads where you could have posted this!
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Yes. I have an email from Will Straw telling me there'll be no campaign events till Sunday.
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Why the criticism.
I am only voicing an opinion.
At the moment it is Spain 3 Turkey 0.
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>> Why the criticism.
>>
>> I am only voicing an opinion.
>>
>> At the moment it is Spain 3 Turkey 0.
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Yes, but IMHO this thread is not an appropriate place to voice such an opinion.
If you do not understand that then there is something severely lacking in your sensitivities and intelligence.
I wonder if you are the type of person who would turn up to a funeral and bad mouth the deceased in front of their grieving family, just because you have the right to do so!!!
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Whatever, there appears a building pile of evidence that the mild-mannered mentally challenged perpetrator held white supremacist/isolationist views.
Whether the flavour is BNP/BF or some other 'keep Britain white and British' fringe is largely irrelevant.
I would be interested to see if there had been a degree of 'radicalisation' through social media/political contacts, with the perp being egged on by some others, or if he created this vile attack within his own little world.
I expect every angle is being looked at - apparently the anti-terror team are working with the Police at present.
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>> I would be interested to see if there had been a degree of 'radicalisation' through
>> social media/political contacts, with the perp being egged on by some others, or if he
>> created this vile attack within his own little world.
>>
The Guardian article above has a receipt dated 13 May 1999. So it seems that the radicalisation had begun at least 17 years ago.
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I know - but I wonder if he concocted this abomination by himself or if he had a fanclub.
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Bit of a shocker this. Although I didn't deal with her personally,she was a client of the firm I work for. Colleagues who actually dealt with her tell me she was one of the better MP clients to deal with.
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Apparently the Conservatives and Liberals are not going to contest Jo Cox's seat as a mark of respect in the by election that must come.
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Which makes no sense. She very much supported the democratic process.
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It also deprives the electors of choice and means they will get an MP chosen by Labour, assuming that they don't actually elect say the UKIP candidate.
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Come on now.If she had been Conservative I wouldn't have expected a labour candidate to stand.
The UKIP candidate should get a live.
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>> It also deprives the electors of choice and means they will get an MP chosen
>> by Labour, assuming that they don't actually elect say the UKIP candidate.
>>
It's a difficult one for me.
1, One side of it is..... the nutter that did this shouldn't win, so as she was a Labour MP, that's what we should ensure remains the case, so other parties failing to field candidates is a correct decision.
2, Then there's the others side... if you were to do that, you are making a decision for the electorate.. and.. it's the electorate of that constituency who should decide, so field candidates as usual and let them do their stuff.
Then there's the muddying of the waters.... if you went for option 1, should Jeremy Corbyn ensure the Labour candidate was as near to her views as is sensibly possible or can he put one of his old cronies in there?... and where do you draw the line?
No easy answers and I have splinters re sitting on the fence. If forced, I'd go for option 1.
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The opposition parties clearly feel that it would be wrong to make a political gain as a result of a murder.
It is an unusual move though. When Ian Gow was murdered in 1990 his Eastbourne seat was contested and in fact was won by the Liberals
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>>The opposition parties clearly feel that it would be wrong to make a political gain as a result of a murder.
What about heart attack? Road accident? What about a road accident where the other person was a drunk driver?
Which type of deaths make a competitive election socially acceptable and which do not?
Will the next elected member have identical policies to Jo Cox? What happens if the Labour voters would prefer different policies?
Why should the political parties attempt to decide if the next member should be a Labour politician? Maybe the voters would not. On what level do the other parties think that *they* have a right to decide?
Will there be a reciprocal arrangement the next time a Conservative or Liberal politician is murdered? What happens if Labour refuse to step down next time?
Its a bunch of sanctimonious grand-standing which does nobody any favours and deserves no credit.
The *ONLY* reason one of the parties should not contest it is if *THEY* were responsible for the killing. Then gaining from their own criminal behaviour would be wrong.
We do NOT have rules and process for the selection of members of parliament just so that a bunch of politicians can decide to take a different path.
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There is no requirement for any party to party to put up a candidate at an election. If any one wants to stand they can. Historically there have been many uncontested parliamentary elections . There still are a large number of unopposed local government elections.
I don't think it is the end of democracy.
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I don't either but not standing really helps only the national Labour Party. The real injured parties here (a long way behind Jo Cox and her family, of course) are the constituents, who may like to make their own statement in how they elect her successor.
Perhaps there could be a 'silent' campaign, in which the parties put up candidates as normal but refrain from active canvassing.
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I knew nothing of her before - I'm sure though, she would not have wanted a "no contest" by-election though. She wasn't that type.
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The seat has been Labour since 1997 and Jo Cox's majority was 6,000. I suspect that, pragmatically, Liberals Tories and UKIP are content to avoid spending money on a campaign they cannot win.
Suspect deal is that Labour will ensure the local party select a local candidate. Not the time or place to bring back Ed Balls.
Will though be an unfortunate precedent in any future sudden and violent death.
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The suspect gave his name as 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain"
Any idea why he's in London rather than a local court?
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>> Any idea why he's in London rather than a local court?
Only a guess, I suspect that he has been held at Belmarsh Prison or Paddington Green Police Station.
Perhaps the name given is an attempt to give credence to him being a lunatic?
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He was a "Loner" with possible mental problems, he may well have received the same kind of treatment from people he tried to interact with as a certain forum member does on here, consequently he looked elsewhere. People need to be more tolerant of others who aren't quite on par with their peers intellect.
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MP Jo Cox Shot - No FM2R
