Non-motoring > Playing the devil's advocate	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: bathtub tom	Replies: 50

Sat 11 Jun 16 15:24   Playing the devil's advocate - bathtub tom

In town today, Muslims were handing out small pots of dates to the public. I asked how I could be sure they weren't tampered with and suggested the person handing them out ate one to prove they were safe. I know damn well it's Ramadan! Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 11 Jun 16 15:39   Playing the devil's advocate - Armel Coussine

A bit rude and unkind bt. No doubt they are used to it if they live here. Reply to this message | Report message       3

Sat 11 Jun 16 16:24   Playing the devil's advocate - commerdriver

Sounds racist to me Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 11 Jun 16 16:35   Playing the devil's advocate - Ambo

And extremely dangerous with it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 12 Jun 16 11:27   Playing the devil's advocate - devonite

Muslim is not a race, they are followers of a belief called Islam, so you are not a racist if you say something about Muslims. Same as if you told a Jehovah's Witness to "go away" or a catholic you don't believe in God. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sun 12 Jun 16 15:41   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

>> Muslim is not a race, they are followers of a belief called Islam, so you >> are not a racist if you say something about Muslims. Same as if you told >> a Jehovah's Witness to "go away" or a catholic you don't believe in God. I wouldn't rely on that Devonite: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/20/islam-race-richard-dawkins Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 09:28   Playing the devil's advocate - Haywain

"I wouldn't rely on that Devonite: www.theguardian........... " The writer of that piece is an idiot if he thinks that he can take on Richard Dawkins, an eminent geneticist, over the definition of 'race' and 'racist'. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 21 Jun 16 09:18   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

While the concept of race undoubtedly has a genetic angle it is also a philosophical (and political) concept. I suspect, in reality, Dawkins would recognise that. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 21 Jun 16 10:36   Playing the devil's advocate - Haywain

"it is also a philosophical (and political) concept." The social engineers can re-define any words such that they can mean everything and nothing. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 11 Jun 16 16:54   Playing the devil's advocate - Old Navy

>> I know damn well it's Ramadan! >> I believe if they live here they should abide by our rules and way of life as we would be forced to in a Muslim country. That is no reason to wind them up though. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 11 Jun 16 17:23   Playing the devil's advocate - Armel Coussine

>> I believe if they live here they should abide by our rules and way of life as we would be forced to in a Muslim country. In Algiers in the seventies the resident foreigners, and a good proportion of the officially Muslim locals, used to sit on the pavement guzzling oustide eateries as usual, Ramadan or no Ramadan. I'm a sensitive geezer though and I used to feel a bit guilty about it. Of course the observant Musulmen could feel superior and contemptuous (Algerians are very bad at hiding that sort of thing). My courtesy, such as it was, was wasted on those sour but strangely interesting cats. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 11 Jun 16 21:02   Playing the devil's advocate - legacylad

If I was a Ramadamist and lived in Tromso I'd be Hank Marvin a lot of the time. No food, drink or intimate relations during the hours of daylight if I understand right... Rather them than me. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 11 Jun 16 21:55   Playing the devil's advocate - Fullchat

Guess who went to Morocco on holiday in Ramadam ? :S However there were tourist orientated places which catered for the infidels. Felt slightly guilty filling my face infront of those that were observing the practice. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 11 Jun 16 23:14   Playing the devil's advocate - henry k

Many years ago I was working in Jeddah during Ramadam. I had a corner office in a large building with just one small internal facing window. The expats in the building used to come to my office for a snack / drink so that the locals were not able to view them. Every evening in our residential area there was the sound of cars at speed as all were rushing home. The place fell silent and the cannon sounded and then the calls from the mosques commenced. A hour later all hell broke out as normal life returned, shopping etc. Shops stayed open until 0200 hrs. It was always stated " nothing but pure air shall pass your lips from dawn til dusk" No food, no drink, no sex . Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 11 Jun 16 23:32   Playing the devil's advocate - bathtub tom

SWMBO was a teacher in a 90% Muslim school. They can do whatever they like to themselves, but the pressure they put on children, the elderly and pregnant women disgusted me. Reply to this message | Report message       4

Sun 12 Jun 16 11:31   Playing the devil's advocate - devonite

>>It was always stated " nothing but pure air shall pass your lips from dawn til dusk"<< They won't find much of that in the Cities! Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 12 Jun 16 13:22   Playing the devil's advocate - legacylad

To be fair the air quality in both Keighley & Bradford has improved these past few years. Sadly the standard of driving hasn't Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 12 Jun 16 15:58   Playing the devil's advocate - zippy

50 young people killed in America last night by an Islamic terrorist! Play the devil's advocate all you like. If they don't get their house in order someone will do it for them! Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 12 Jun 16 16:34   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

>> 50 young people killed in America last night by an Islamic terrorist! Still seems to be IF he was a terrorist (ie linked to ISIS or some other group). Reported to be a US citizen though so could be just another in long line of home grown nut jobs. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 12 Jun 16 17:53   Playing the devil's advocate - Westpig

>> Still seems to be IF he was a terrorist (ie linked to ISIS or some >> other group). Reported to be a US citizen though so could be just another in >> long line of home grown nut jobs. >> Surely it matters not where you come from. If you are a follower of Islam and commit an atrocity on others because they don't comply with your beliefs... then that makes you an Islamic terrorist... does it not? tinyurl.com/joscuf3 Reply to this message | Report message       3

Sun 12 Jun 16 19:54   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

>> If you are a follower of Islam It was an attack on a Gay club. If the perp was a Christian fundamentalist committing an atrocity on others because they didn't comply with his /her beliefs does that make them a Christian terrorist? Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 12 Jun 16 20:33   Playing the devil's advocate - Haywain

"If the perp was a Christian fundamentalist committing an atrocity on others because they didn't comply with his /her beliefs does that make them a Christian terrorist? " Yes. Reply to this message | Report message       3

Sun 12 Jun 16 22:22   Playing the devil's advocate - Westpig

>> "If the perp was a Christian fundamentalist committing an atrocity on others because they >> didn't comply with his /her beliefs does that make them a Christian terrorist? " Of course.... why wouldn't it? Last edited by: Westpig on Sun 12 Jun 16 at 22:23 Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sun 12 Jun 16 22:43   Playing the devil's advocate - Lygonos

More than 10,000 gun homicides every year in the US (and about 20,000 gun suicides). NRAs gotta find a scapegoat to take the attention off the gun control agenda. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 08:18   Playing the devil's advocate - Cliff Pope

>> >> Of course.... why wouldn't it? >> And would that justify a campaign to root out Christian fundamentalism as a potential breeding ground for terrorism? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 08:33   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

Trump is already milking it for its 'I was right about Muslims' value: metro.co.uk/2016/06/13/donald-trump-reacted-to-orlando-terror-attack-in-most-donald-trump-way-5940410/ Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 08:37   Playing the devil's advocate - Westpig

>> And would that justify a campaign to root out Christian fundamentalism as a potential breeding >> ground for terrorism? >> Yes, why not? You'd only do it if it was more than a one off, but if there was an ongoing problem, you'd need to address it. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Mon 13 Jun 16 10:55   Playing the devil's advocate - Mike Hannon

A close friend of mine, a schoolteacher in a 'sensitive' quarter of Limoges, told me at the weekend that her life is hell at the moment because the kids, the vast majority of whom are from Muslim families and who also don't give a toss about school anyway, are refusing to do anything in class because it's Ramadan. Make of it what you will. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 11:03   Playing the devil's advocate - commerdriver

Don't know what age group you are talking about Mike but not giving a toss about school is not unique to Muslim teenagers and any excuse is better than none. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Mon 13 Jun 16 11:06   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

>> Make of >> it what you will. France has utterly failed to achieve even a modest level of integration between its minorities and the mainstream population. Too many ghettos with no or too few jobs. If kids don't see any advantage in education it's not really surprising that they disengage. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 11:40   Playing the devil's advocate - Mike Hannon

>>France has utterly failed to achieve even a modest level of integration between its minorities and the mainstream population. Too many ghettos with no or too few jobs. If kids don't see any advantage in education it's not really surprising that they disengage.<< Yes indeed. The kids are 12-16 and she says it's worse this year than she can remember. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 11:48   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

>>Yes indeed. The kids are 12-16 and she says it's worse this year than she can remember. Fasting until sundown at this time of year must be trying on the bodily constitution. If they're up before dawn to preload with calories then lack of sleep will be an issue too. One of my colleagues is observant as regards food but continues to drink water. Aside from fluid replenishment fact that it's all phone work means voice/throat need lubrication!! Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 13 Jun 16 at 11:50 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 11:53   Playing the devil's advocate - zippy

It should be illegal to fast if using dangerous machinery, hgvs, piloting an aircraft or working anywhere where being out of energy will lead to bad decision making (doctors, nurses, police etc)! Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 12:15   Playing the devil's advocate - CGNorwich

>> It should be illegal to fast if using dangerous machinery, hgvs, piloting an aircraft or >> working anywhere where being out of energy will lead to bad decision making (doctors, nurses, >> police etc)! >> And exactly how would you enforce that? Will people on diets be included? What about the half of the nation that skip breakfast? How few calories constitute a fast? How do you stand on force feeding persistant offenders ? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 12:28   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

>> And exactly how would you enforce that? I've survived for years skipping either breakfast or lunch with no ill effect. PLenty other folks with similar metabolism. Mrs B and both kids OTOH can be creatures from hell if they don't top up every few hours. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 12:31   Playing the devil's advocate - Haywain

"I've survived for years skipping either breakfast or lunch with no ill effect." Possibly explains why you bought a Skoda Roomster ........ and gave it a name ........ and admitted it. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 13:19   Playing the devil's advocate - Dog

I never eat anything between 8pm and 8am the next morn and it's never done me any 'arm. I never eat between meals either, so I eat very little when I come to think about it. I'm 'king ab-normal really. (*_*) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 12:33   Playing the devil's advocate - Mike Hannon

>>Fasting until sundown at this time of year must be trying on the bodily constitution. If they're up before dawn to preload with calories then lack of sleep will be an issue too.<< That's exactly it, apparently. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 12:56   Playing the devil's advocate - Dutchie

If fasten is part of their religion what has it got to do with us? I should imagine It might do plenty of people some good to empty the stomach and just drink water. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 16:26   Playing the devil's advocate - madf

SQ >> If the perp was a Christian fundamentalist committing an atrocity on others because they didn't comply with his /her beliefs does that make them a Christian terrorist? The Christian religion - as outlined by Christ - says "love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you". So by definition, anyone who attacked the nightclub in the name of Christianity could not be a Christian. On the other hand , the Koran explicitly says kill your enemies - and gays. So attacking the nightclub in the name of Islam is carrying out the instructions of the Koran. Period. Factual. Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 01:43 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 16:45   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

>> The Christian religion - as outlined by Christ - says "love your enemies and do >> good to those who persecute you". So by definition, anyone who attacked the nightclub in >> the name of Christianity could not be a Christian. But don't the fundamentalists take the Old Testament seriously too? And that contains plenty of stuff about killing people. Period. Factual. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 16:48   Playing the devil's advocate - fluffy

The religion argument is becoming too complicated. Religion and politics is a dangerous mix to argue about. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Mon 13 Jun 16 17:08   Playing the devil's advocate - Bromptonaut

Christian fundamentalist praises attacker: www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/06/christian-pastor-calls-orlando-massacre-good-news/ Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 17:22   Playing the devil's advocate - Haywain

"Christian fundamentalist praises attacker: " If you're looking for Christian nutters, these are the boys. www.godhatesfags.com Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 17:09   Playing the devil's advocate - Slidingpillar

But don't the fundamentalists take the Old Testament seriously too? I think the answer is they claim to, but in actual fact, pick and chose. Do a spot of research and you'll be surprised how many things are 'banned'. I know some Jewish sects do follow the Torah exactly, but when did you last hear of a Hassidic terrorist? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 17:46   Playing the devil's advocate - commerdriver

Assume any fundamentalist is some kind of nutter, whether it be religious, political or whatever. You won't go far wrong Just don't assume the others in whatever religion, political group etc are nutters too Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 12:05   Playing the devil's advocate - Alanovich

>> >> expats Migrants? Economic migrants? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 14:16   Playing the devil's advocate - Armel Coussine

When I was a Catholic one had to fast from midnight between Saturday and Sunday if one was going to take communion. Only water was permitted. Has this practice been abandoned by the Church? Fasting can be quite stressful for adolescents. That's why they sometimes faint in church. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 13 Jun 16 at 14:17 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 14:29   Playing the devil's advocate - Runfer D'Hills

When I first started my business, I used to fast quite regularly. And sleep in the car sometimes. Eventually, it became unnecessary to do that... ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 15:31   Playing the devil's advocate - Westpig

>> When I first started my business, I used to fast quite regularly. Fast. There's an 's' in it, not an 'r'. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 13 Jun 16 15:39   Playing the devil's advocate - Runfer D'Hills

That too. Fortunately, there was a sunroof. Reply to this message | Report message       1