Someone texted me the other day... at 0710... re a change of time I'd be needed to come in to work that day (1000am changed from 1030am).
It woke me up at least an hour earlier than I intended.... and annoyed the hell out of me.
My strong thoughts are that it was rude* and that unimportant messages should be within a decent time frame (be it a phone call or text message) e.g. not before 0800 and not after 2100.
However, whilst a couple of people agree with me, a couple have fairly firmly disagreed with me.. one saying a text message is like an e-mail and could be sent at any time of the day or night and it's up to me to turn my phone off.
My answer is why should I have to? I want the phone on for any potential important incoming call... and would sometimes forget to put it on silent... and in any case the vibrate element wakes you up as it bounces all over the bedside cabinet, so would I have to fiddle about with settings every night rather than just put it on silent, just because someone else presumes I have the same sleep pattern as them?
If I am particularly tired, I'd go to bed at say 2130, instead of the more usual 2200. On a day off and no other commitments I'd sleep until at least 0830. I know that some people think a midnight turn is normal and get up at 0600, but hey ho, we're all different.
* the person who sent it is a genuinely 'nice' person, exceptionally helpful. I suspect it's a case of not knowing and not thinking.
So... over to you lot, what do you think?
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If you don't want to be disturbed, turn all the electronic junk off. Reading texts, emails, etc. and answering phones is not compulsory. If it is that important whoever will contact you later.
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I ( now, having disciplined myself to do so ) treat emails and texts like I would the paper mail on the doormat. I read it when I choose, not necessarily when it arrives.
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>> If you don't want to be disturbed, turn all the electronic junk off. Reading texts,
>> emails, etc. and answering phones is not compulsory. If it is that important whoever will
>> contact you later.
>>
Precisely.
We are in charge here, not the tools we have created.
What was the point of the Peasants' Revolt if we are now going to bind ourselves in new chains?
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>> What was the point of the Peasants' Revolt
Ah, now there lies many hours of fruitless but enjoyable discussion.
Richard - good job or bad?
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When Adam delved and Eve Span.
Who was then the Gentleman?
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>> When Adam delved and Eve Span.
>> Who was then the Gentleman?
>>
Indeed. Then thou returnest unscathed from the Battle of North Walsham? Welcome back, friend!
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Which is more that can be said of Geoffrey Litester, dragged from North Walsham church by the troops Bishop Of Norwich, le Despenser and executed.
Bishops were a lot more right wing in those days.
Actually I llived in North Walsham for 12 years and my children were christened in that very church.
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Apart from the time (that would be absurdly late to be in bed for me, but as you say, everyone is different), for me I'd never consider having a mobile turned on overnight. In the event of an emergency there's a perfectly good ex-directory landline, the number of which is known only to a few family members, so that seems good enough to me.
On turning the phone on in the morning there are invariably a load of emails, so I'm not having those buzzing and pinging about in the small hours.
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You need to train your contacts, once the penny drops that your phone is off from 2100 to 0800 they will soon get used to it. As Cranks says there is usually a land line for emergencies, once again train contacts to use it at their peril.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 20:44
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Seems a reasonable time to let someone know as it was only a couple of hours before you needed to be in work. Do it any later and people would complain that you didn't give them enough notice and why didn't you tell me straight away?
As to why the emphasis should be on you, you can control where and when you sleep. you can't control others and their actions. It might be difficult to try and remember everybodies sleep patterns and how much sleep they all need. If sleep was that important, my phone would be switched off everynight.
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>> one saying a text message is like an e-mail and could be sent
>> at any time of the day or night and it's up to me to turn
>> my phone off.
Yeah, that's how I see them - didn't think people left their phones on at night. Might think twice next time (actually I don't remember the last time I sent a text at an unsociable hour).
EDIT: 'at night' = 'when they go to bed'
Last edited by: Focusless on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 20:41
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Purely for self perseveration I turn my phone off or more often, turn the alerts to silent when I don't want to be disturbed. On an iPhone you can make exceptions to those rules for certain numbers if you wish so my nearest and dearests can still contact me even then, but no one else. My situation is that I receive information or queries from people in many different time zones so the damn thing would never stop if I didn't silence it. Production in China, designers in California and customers in Europe combine to a nigh on 24 hour stream of mails and other messages.
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Or you be like me - deaf!
I do have a mobile phone, but only SMS texts are answered and unless I'm wearing it, no chance I'll feel the vibrations.
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One of the reasons that I left my previous employer was that we were given "Blackberries" and had to keep them on 24/7.
Emails would arrive at silly times, really silly times like 3:00AM for things like the seating plans for meetings etc. and replies demanded within the hour and complaints to your bosses when the reply was late, now considering my contracted hours were 9 to 5 that was taking the Michael!
My current employer has issued us with very expensive smart phones. The boss has told us to turn them off at night and has a policy of not calling anyone or expecting a reply to emails unless preceded by an urgent text from him after mid day on a Friday - i.e. there is a very urgent or serious need to respond or be available which has happened once in 4 years!
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If they want 24/7 cover, then pay for 24/7 would be my response. Otherwise two fingers.
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As Humph says, the iphone Do Not Disturb feature is excellent.
Anyone you have stored as a favourite can phone you at any time and the phone will ring. However no texts, emails or any other notifications will come through.
I leave my phone on 24/7 and know that if one of the kids needs me , or my dad's alert system, the phone will ring.
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My family and friends know I'm always reachable. If I'm at home there's the landline, I switch on my mobile as I leave the house and off when I get home.
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We have 4 cordless phones for the house phone.
Only one of them works.
It can be anywhere in the house
Usually its battery is dead
We never get phone calls to the house from friends or relatives anymore - all junk calls.
However Virgin charge more to have no landline than they do to have one.
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I've recently taken to leaving my phone on 24/7 - it stays in the kitchen at night, I rarely take it to the bedroom with me. I have a friend with whom I exchange texts daily - he goes to work very early (he's on flexitime) and usually texts around 730am onwards. Phone is downstairs, I don't hear it. We exchange news and views whilst I breakfast. Occasionally the ringer on my phone stays off for extended periods of time. In other words I'm in charge of my phone not the other way around. I wear a watch 24/7 to tell the time !
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I would not ring without considering the time.
I would whatsapp, SMS or email at any time it occurred to me to do so irrespective of the time.
My own phone, similar to Humph's, automatically turns on a firewall blocking all apps and goes mute for all except a few numbers when it is placed on my bedside table. (thanks to a kindly donation of NFC tags [ thank you soooo much]).
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This is a problem we have a lot.
Our days always start around 1.30am, which in turn means we are in bed usually by 8pm and sometimes sooner, or at the very least don't want to be sociable.
Despite knowing this some people will still phone and text at 9 pm and complain when they don't get an answer.
Being the charity 24/7 contact number means calls have to be answered and the phone can't be switched off but the inconsideration of others never ceases to amaze me.
My cure for persistent callers is to ignore their number if I recognise it but call them back in the morning......which for me would be around 2.30am. They never seem to do it again!
Pat
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>> This is a problem we have a lot.
The way I see it, is some people cannot or will not grasp that we are all different. They can only see life through their own eyes.
In this context, they don't sleep much, or are used to getting up early, so presume that's the norm and it is acceptable to inflict their thought processes/ actions on other people.
I do not think it is that hard to think of others, but to some it seems it is.
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>> The way I see it, is some people cannot or will not grasp that we
>> are all different. They can only see life through their own eyes.
WP, I think you're a little bit guilty of that which you accuse others of here. Someone else might think it reasonable to alert you of a change of time three hours in advance, as is the case in your OP. I don't think that's unreasonable, they don't think that's unreasonable, but you do.
You're right, we are all different, we don't conform to anyone else's standards, including yours.
You can't control what other people do. You're not a copper any more. ;-)
The only person you can control is yourself: leave the phone switched off or downstairs. It is entirely within your gift to remain undisturbed at night/early morning. You're never going to instil your own requirements in everyone else, so why fight it?
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>> Someone else might think it reasonable to alert you of a change of time
>> three hours in advance, as is the case in your OP. I don't think that's
>> unreasonable, they don't think that's unreasonable, but you do.
That statement in itself I don't find unreasonable. What I find unreasonable is the time of day the warning was sent.
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I take it you've since told the person not to contact you until after, say 08.30?
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It amuses me sometimes to relate moderm-day "etiquette" to that of an earlier age.
I have previously related my great-grandmother's tea ceremony. Now try this:
I still have the silver tray which she had on the table in the entrance hall. Friends who wished to see her called and left their cards, or else sent a servant round to leave them.
When my ggm arose, a maid would bring the tray of cards and she would look through them. Any she wished to be at home for she would return in the tray to the maid, instructing that a servant be sent round to inform them when would be convenient.
Urgent callers could ask for the card to be sent upstairs to my ggm, where it was presented in the tray. If she was at home, she sent the card back down and shortly appeared herself.
If not at home, the caller was sent away.
("At home" of course meant willing to receive the caller. It had nothing to do with being physically in the house)
I never witnessed any of this stuff myself. These are my father's childhood memories.
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Did she do all that subtle business with "if the top right hand corner of the card is turned down and returned then it means..." something or other I've forgotten but was well known as some sort of insult at the time?
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>> Did she do all that subtle business with "if the top right hand corner of
>> the card is turned down and returned then it means..." something or other I've forgotten
>> but was well known as some sort of insult at the time?
>>
I never heard that - interesting though. I must remember to turn down the corners of all cards left by solar panel sellers and prime ministers wanting to make me aware of important government initiatives.
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Returning a card in an envelope was certainly a brush off. Corners turned down had various meanings.
"A visit in person (as opposed to being sent by a servant): the right hand upper corner
A congratulatory visit: the left hand upper corner
A condolence visit: the left hand lower corner
Taking leave (if you were going on a long trip): right hand lower corner
If there were two of more ladies in the household, the gentleman turned down a corner of the card to indicate that the call was designed for the whole family."
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An earlier version of controlling electronic device intrusions, your ggm was "not in" I would be switched off.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 19 Apr 16 at 09:08
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>> I never witnessed any of this stuff myself. These are my father's childhood memories.
Nevil Shute's novel Pastoral has amongst it's characters and elderly lady who follows that sort of protocol. One of the central characters, Gervaise, visits her to see if her fiance and fellow airmen on bombers can use her private fishing.
Set c1943 Shute's commentary suggested the practice was already outdated then
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Ditto on my Android Motorola, using the Motorola "Assist" app. Emails, texts etc will arrive, but there are no flashing indicators, no noises, no nothing, but in the same way as BobbyG mentions, any contact flagged as a favourite will cause it to ring. Very useful, it just kicks in automatically at a predetermined time, and ditto for the deactivation.
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Magnus Pike wrote about this in 1974.
He predicted the day when everyone would have a personal telephone 'like a police radio', and pondered whether it would make our lives better or worse to be instantly contactable.
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It's really hard to know what time to contact people. As Pat said, she would be inconvenienced if you rang at at 9pm.
I leave mine on at night, on the basis that I am unlikely to be called, but if I am it is likely to be urgent or to my advantage.
I do however have a 'quiet time' set that suppresses notifications between 11pm and 7.30 am.
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>> It's really hard to know what time to contact people. As Pat said, she would
>> be inconvenienced if you rang at at 9pm.
That's my point.
You've rightly stated that 9pm might inconvenience someone, so if you thought 'not before 0800 and not after 2100' you are unlikely to offend or inconvenience anyone.
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Unless of course, they work night shifts and are trying to sleep in the daytime.
Pat
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Aye i was just thinking the same, mind you you would hope in an job/industry with lots of shift work it would be well known about reasonable times to contact people sleeping off a shift.
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I can remember one particular time i was abroad working 12 on/12 off, everyone was accommodated in buildings similar to portacabins. Notices were everywhere about being considerate to those sleeping off a shift during the daytime. Doors were padded for the clumsy when they came or went and let a door bang shut. Woe betide anyone making a noise and waking people up.
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I assume any call after 9pm means someone has died. When I had to inform some people of a relatives death I left telling them until the following morning, as waking them to tell them would not have improved the news.
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>> Unless of course, they work night shifts and are trying to sleep in the daytime.
I've done enough of them in my time... in which case all phones are turned off, as is the doorbell... and ear plugs inserted.
Disappointing if you had to do that sort of thing when you are not doing shifts.
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Can you set up a profile on your phone so that ringtone and vibrate are both silenced from say 22:00 to 08:00 local time?
Pretty sure it was possible on by old Sony Ericcson choc bar mobile but less clear on my Motorola Android smartphone. Can set it to no interruptions for up to eight hours, enough for most of my CA shifts but not a full night.
Maybe there's an App for it.
Agree with others though. Text and email can be sent any time and if it's about adjusting a shift at work there's a reasonable supposition that more notice is better than less. I occasionally get asked to do outreach in Towcester instead of my usual shift in the main CA office in Northampton.
Would rather message was waiting when I get up at 07:30 then get it just as I'm leaving the house an hour later. Need extra paperwork for outreach I don't want to lug around every shift and I can view bookings before I leave home so I've got a clue what I'm going to be asked about.
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Back in the day unless I had made specific arrangements or were aware of personal timetables I would consider that 10.00 - 21.00 was a reasonable time to make a telephone inqiries. Unless urgent of course.
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>> Can you set up a profile on your phone so that ringtone and vibrate are
>> both silenced from say 22:00 to 08:00 local time?
I'm missing something - how's that different to turning it off?
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>> I'm missing something - how's that different to turning it off?
Because you don't have to remember to turn it off...
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Easiest way is to use an App as has been suggested. Something like "Do not Disturb" will do the trick enabling you set up a schedule when you want the phone to be silent.
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>> Because you don't have to remember to turn it off...
And any missed calls or txt will be shown on screen when you next look at it.
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As Dave says, I want to know what happened, I just don't want it to disturb me.
Also, there are some numbers which get through to me no matter what - which they won't do if the phone is off.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 01:14
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If I wanted to ensure that I wouldn't be disturbed by my phone, then I'd turn it off. If I didn't know how to turn it off, then I'd leave it downstairs -in the back-porch if necessary.
If I wanted to let someone know about a change of plans, I would weigh things up and probably do as your text-caller did. Send a text timed to give you reasonable warning of the change.
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My opening hours are 8:30am to 9:30pm. Call outside those hours and there's a decent chance you'll get filtered out by the Do Not Disturb function on my phone which only has two "allowed" numbers in it.
However, it's set that if someone tries to call three times in two minutes it'll break through.
My neighbour once rang the doorbell at 6am to drop off a parcel they'd taken in for me. Fair enough because the kitchen lights were on, but unfortunately the only reason they were on is because I'd staggered in at 3am and forgotten to switch them off...
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Off topic - but slightly connected re etiquette.
Girding loins to pressure wash the front paving slabs. (NB - NOT a garden!).
Only questions are - (1) how many tablets should I take and - (2) should I think of the deeply unpleasant person next door, who works nights and witters at ANY slight normal daytime noise, by delaying the start of the work for another hour or so?
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Girding loins to pressure wash the front paving slabs.
Crikey - even we young 'uns would generally buy a machine to do that. How many pots of tea does it take? Chapeau!
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>>(2) should I think of the deeply unpleasant person next door, who works nights and witters at ANY slight normal daytime noise, by delaying the start of the work for another hour or so?<<
>>
It's rather odd that someone next door who works nights would be anything less than thoroughly pleasant, even if that wasn't an easy task for them.
We had a next door neighbour many years ago, who also worked nights. He, though, was a thoroughly pleasant and likeable chap and we went out of our way to be as quiet as possible, until we knew he was up and about.
A thoroughly unpleasant night shift neighbour living next door to me, wouldn't be thoroughly unpleasant for long.
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I tend to stay up until 3 am and sleep untill 11 or so. I am often disturbed in the morning but it doesn't seem to bother me. Herself is more normal in her habits.
A delivery tomorrow may come as early as 7.30. That may be a bit disruptive, but people delivering things are a law unto themselves, dammit.
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>> people ...... are a law unto themselves, dammit.
>>
This is the thing which evidently grieves WP, the OP. However, in this specific case it is well within his gift to mitigate by his own actions. However, he'd rather we all danced to his tune so he doesn't have to learn how use his phone to his best advantage.
How does it go? Oh yeah:
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 13:31
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I don't see anything wrong with text messages. All you hear is a tiny beep at most. You can read it later if you want to.
Sometimes the message is for your benefit rather than the sender's. If I am awake I usually read message if I see sender is known and important to me. :-)
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It amazes me that people take the devices in to their bedrooms at all. Mine never goes upstairs. Never even considered doing it, because I don't want it to disturb me.
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>> It amazes me that people take the devices in to their bedrooms at all.
>>
Depends on personal circumstances, if you have friends / family who may call in urgent situation for valid reason you will have it available.
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That's what my landline phone in the bedroom is for. The landline phone will not beep with texts, or software updates, or emails, or whatever else the blasted things tug at my apron for. Mobile = nowhere near my bedroom.
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>> It amazes me that people take the devices in to their bedrooms at all. Mine
>> never goes upstairs.
Be amazed. It has an alarm on it.
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>> I don't see anything wrong with text messages. All you hear is a tiny beep
>> at most. You can read it later if you want to.
I have a longish noise for the text messages... so that during the day, when it is in my pocket, I have half a chance of noticing I've received one.
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>> This is the thing which evidently grieves WP, the OP. However, in this specific case
>> it is well within his gift to mitigate by his own actions. However, he'd rather
>> we all danced to his tune so he doesn't have to learn how use his
>> phone to his best advantage.
Well that's one way of looking at it.
The other is, it's my phone, I pay for it...and...if it's convenient for me to have it handy for the alarm, light and seeing the time without having to put my glasses on to read my watch, why couldn't I expect a bit of thoughtfulness from other people... the people contacting me on MY PHONE.
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>> This is the thing which evidently grieves WP, the OP. However, in this specific case
>> it is well within his gift to mitigate by his own actions. However, he'd rather
>> we all danced to his tune so he doesn't have to learn how use his
>> phone to his best advantage.
What a strange way of looking at things.
It's up to me to mitigate someone else's unthinking behaviour, not the other person to not indulge in unthinking behaviour?
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It's up to you to mitigate it because it's out of your control, the best thing to do is deal with the problem yourself instead of getting angry at someone else who has a different perspective on the matter.
That's all. Nothing strange about it.
As for alarms, seriously? You never had an alarm before you had a mobile phone and you need it in the bedroom to do that? I expect you can find an alarm clock in Argos for about £1.99. I'll treat you if you like.
It's your attitude that I find strange, and I wonder why you bothered asking for the opinion of others, when you have evidently made your mind up before you even started this thread, that it's somebody else's problem.
Do let me know how it goes once you've told everybody you know never to message you outside of your personal ring-fenced hours, and don't forget to inform every new person who gets hold of your phone number. I'm sure everyone else will find it totally reasonable of you, won't think you're even slightly odd, and will be sure to remember your specific, personalised instructions on the matter and it will never happen again. I'm sure it'll work.
Of course, you could just learn to use YOUR OWN PHONE properly to avoid having to tell everyone in the whole world, but obviously that's too much effort to solve YOUR PROBLEM.
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Every so often Humph points out that, even if the rest of the road-using population are not all idiots, it's safest to assume that they will be and to take what measures are within our control to mitigate the idiocies we will inevitably encounter. Everyone smiles and nods sagely, and gives him multiple green thumbs.
How is this situation any different? The mobile phone toothpaste is comprehensively out of the tube, and ideas of keeping them out of restaurants and railway coaches are just futile fancy. People - some people - in other words, will contact you when they feel like it, not when you feel like it. Your phone has features to help manage this; why would you not use them?
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How did the WP approach to Global Control work out for old King Canute, I wonder?
;-)
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I was wondering about his own former life:
"Sarge, it's not fair. Those people out there keep committing crimes."
"Then you must h'arrest 'em, Constable Westpig. That's what we are 'ere for. The Great British Public h'expects it of us."
"Oh but Sarge, arresting people is such hard work. Why can't they just show some consideration instead? Is the tea ready yet?"
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>> Your phone has features to help manage
>> this; why would you not use them?
They don't fully work for me.
Silent mode = vibrate still working.. and I have to remember to do it.... and more importantly turn it back on again in the morning.
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But Do Not Disturb means no alert at all unless the source is one you've included in the override list - which is entirely up to you.
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They don't fully work for me.
>>
>> Silent mode = vibrate still working.. and I have to remember to do it.... and
>> more importantly turn it back on again in the morning.
Have you tried adjusting the settings, silent is normally that on phones I've owned. Plenty of clued up people on here to help.
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>> Have you tried adjusting the settings, silent is normally that on phones I've owned. Plenty
>> of clued up people on here to help.
>>
Are you saying that if I fiddle about in Settings I could get silent mode to turn off the vibrate function as well?
(i phone 5c)
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Are you saying that if I fiddle about in Settings I could get silent mode
>> to turn off the vibrate function as well?
>>
>> (i phone 5c)
>>
Not had an iphone before but I'd be surprised if you couldn't. My Samsung has 3 factory modes for noise; sound/vibrate/silent.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 18:10
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>> Are you saying that if I fiddle about in Settings I could get silent mode to turn off the vibrate function as well?
Go into settings. Scroll down to phone. You've then got options to
"vibrate on ring"
Vibrate on silence"
And you can toggle them on or off.
There's also an option in the settings menu called Do Not disturb where you do all manner of different things.
support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204321
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 19:20
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>> And you can toggle them on or off.
>> There's also an option in the settings menu called Do Not disturb where you do
>> all manner of different things.
Ideal, thank you
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>> Ideal, thank you
Sorry, that should have been
Go into settings. Scroll down to Sounds.
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>> Do let me know how it goes once you've told everybody you know never to
>> message you outside of your personal ring-fenced hours, and don't forget to inform every new
>> person who gets hold of your phone number.
As ever, you've gone for an extreme...'your personal ring-fenced hours'.
All I expect is a bit of reasonable thought from other people and for them not to make contact via noisy means outside of a reasonable hour.
That's it, no more, no less.
I don't own an alarm clock and haven't done for over 15 years.
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Massive ( bigger than that actually ) thread drift alert...
You've mentioned before WP that you wished there was less of you to carry about?
Staying in bed for longer than is strictly necessary can lead to weight gain. If you don't move about a bit you don't shift the lbs...
As you were chaps, as you were...
;-)
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>> Staying in bed for longer than is strictly necessary can lead to weight gain. If
>> you don't move about a bit you don't shift the lbs...
I'd accept that... trouble is if you are tired, you are tired.
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>>I'd accept that... trouble is if you are tired, you are tired.
Aye true, but what's also true is the more unfit you get, the more tired you get. Vicious circle.
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>> >>I'd accept that... trouble is if you are tired, you are tired.
>>
>> Aye true, but what's also true is the more unfit you get, the more tired
>> you get. Vicious circle.
>>
Oh dear.... I've slept for England all my life.... and my 8 year old son is like it too, although he's built like a whippet.
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Not had the same number of doughnut opportunities yet I guess?
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 19:57
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>> It's your attitude that I find strange, and I wonder why you bothered asking for
>> the opinion of others, when you have evidently made your mind up before you even
>> started this thread, that it's somebody else's problem.
I think like I do (as does everyone), mentioned it in passing to a relative who was staying the weekend... and got rather a blunt negative response, as is yours.
I still thought as I did (and still do), but wondered if that sort of thought process was more prevalent, so posted it on here to find out.
Do you think that wrong?
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Oh. Why didn't you say that in the first place then.
Anyway, I'm glad you've seen the light and have taken advice on how to mitigate the problem yourself. I wish you many undisturbed mornings.
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>> Oh. Why didn't you say that in the first place then.
There's only so much you can say in a post.
I'd urge those reading them not to read too much into it.. or more importantly, add their own slant.
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>> Anyway, I'm glad you've seen the light and have taken advice on how to mitigate
>> the problem yourself. I wish you many undisturbed mornings.
>>
I still think it's is common politeness to think of others and have some consideration.... and before 0800 / after 2100 goes beyond those bounds.
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Funnily enough I happen to agree with you, but I have the capacity to understand that not everyone thinks the same and given that their actions may impinge upon my peace, I'm quite happy to make allowances and adjust my own behaviour slightly for my own convenience.
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>> but I have the capacity to understand
>> that not everyone thinks the same
So do I.
>> and given that their actions may impinge upon my
>> peace, I'm quite happy to make allowances and adjust my own behaviour slightly for my
>> own convenience.
... and that's where we differ. I have adjusted my behaviour for my own convenience, aided by some good advice on here, but not happily. I'd prefer other people to have some more thought.
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>> I still think it's is common politeness to think of others and have some consideration....
>> and before 0800 / after 2100 goes beyond those bounds.
But do you avoid ringing someone during the day in case they do night shifts? Presumably only if you know they do night shifts, as it's not 'normal'. I suspect for most people having your phone on between 0800-2100 but not wanting to be disturbed isn't 'normal', so unless you tell them, I don't think you can accuse them of impoliteness.
EDIT: I'm thinking more of texting rather than ringing
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 10:21
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Perhaps unconventionally, my boss and I often have telephone or email conversations about 10.00 at night. We are both fairly relaxed about that and it's a time of day when there are few other time pressures. We don't meet in person all that much and it provides a laid back way of catching up.
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>> Perhaps unconventionally, my boss and I often have telephone or email conversations about 10.00 at
>> night. We are both fairly relaxed about that and it's a time of day when
>> there are few other time pressures. We don't meet in person all that much and
>> it provides a laid back way of catching up.
>>
Mutual agreement...no problem.
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>> But do you avoid ringing someone during the day in case they do night shifts?
>> Presumably only if you know they do night shifts, as it's not 'normal'.
Correct.
>> I suspect
>> for most people having your phone on between 0800-2100 but not wanting to be disturbed
>> isn't 'normal', so unless you tell them, I don't think you can accuse them of
>> impoliteness.
I agree.
My beef is between the hours of 2100 - 0800.
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>> My beef is between the hours of 2100 - 0800.
I wish my neighbours to the side and opposite would have the consideration not to bespoil the view form my dining room with their fleets of wheelie bins, which they leave out at the front all blasted week, despite having suitable places to the rear and side of their detached properties to stow the unsightly things. Everyone else in the street manages.
However, some people are just totally oblivious to how others may see their behaviour, and, given they are generally convivial folks and I don't wish to get in to neighbourly disputes, I've planted some rhododendron bushes to give a bit of screening.
I shouldn't HAVE to, but that's life. Path of least resistance and we all remain happy.
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>> I wish my neighbours to the side and opposite would have the consideration not to
>> bespoil the view form my dining room with their fleets of wheelie bins, which they
>> leave out at the front all blasted week
I think multiple wheelie bins strategically placed can greatly enhance the appearance of a house, making it, and neighbouring properties, more attractive to potential buyers.
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I think multiple wheelie bins strategically placed can greatly enhance the appearance of a house,
>> making it, and neighbouring properties, more attractive to potential buyers.
Something like this ?
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B005WHIYY0?pc_redir=T1
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 24 Apr 16 at 08:35
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>> Something like this ?
>>
>> www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B005WHIYY0?pc_redir=T1
What a work of art. That would add as much value as a newly installed kitchen or bathroom, shirley.
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>> My beef is between the hours of 2100 - 0800.
Ha - well spotted :)
I still think most people would regard leaving your phone on (and capable of disturbing you) but not wanting to be disturbed over-night is unusual, like doing night shifts.
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 11:34
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>> I still think most people would regard leaving your phone on (and capable of disturbing
>> you) but not wanting to be disturbed over-night is unusual, like doing night shifts.
>>
Why is it unusual?
Ever been a keyholder? Ever had teenage kids and the rule 'ring if it's an emergency'? Ever had someone close to you unwell? Ever worked in a job where you could get called in at short notice? Ever worked away from home and told the wife, ring me if there's a problem?
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>> Why is it unusual?
>>
>> Ever ...
No to most of those, and where I have been in one of those situations, I wouldn't have expected anyone texting me to consider that I was (unless I'd told them). I would have regarded it as an unusual situation and just shrugged my shoulders if someone sent me a trivial text. Just different outlooks I guess.
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>
>> My beef is between the hours of 2100 - 0800.
>>
I think that's the nub of the matter, they're your hours. Others might want to wait till 8.30 or 9 or later, they may prefer an even longer lie in. I don't think you can accuse others of thoughtlessness unless you've told them before.
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>> I think that's the nub of the matter, they're your hours. Others might want to
>> wait till 8.30 or 9 or later, they may prefer an even longer lie in.
>> I don't think you can accuse others of thoughtlessness unless you've told them before.
That's the thing, you see they are not my hours.
I'd be the 0900, but I think that 0800 would be more generally acceptable and i'd have to wear the odd message/phone call.
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> That's the thing, you see they are not my hours.
>>
I'd be the 0900, but I think that 0800 would be more generally acceptable and i'd have to wear the odd message/phone call.
>>
The times of day were merely an example. You have different times to what you consider acceptable to be contacted to others. Unless you tell them how do they know? * you yourself may well have done it.
*baring strangers and adverts texts etc.
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>> You have different times to what you
>> consider acceptable to be contacted to others. Unless you tell them how do they know?
That's the thing though, I'm suggesting a general 'reasonable' time.
0300 clearly would be unreasonable to most people (i'd hope)... and 1100 would be reasonable to all (unless you had specific information to suggest otherwise e.g. night shift).
So 0700 might be in a grey area, some would, some wouldn't find it acceptable... etc
For me, the answer is some people don't even think about it... and they should.
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>> 0300 clearly would be unreasonable to most people (i'd hope)...
But only if they know/assume you've got your phone on and in a state where it's going to disturb you.
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> So 0700 might be in a grey area, some would, some wouldn't find it acceptable...
>> etc
exactly my point.
>> For me, the answer is some people don't even think about it... and they should.
>>
Perhaps so, btw did you speak to the person in question? Anyway glad you got it sorted and you can have whatever hours sleep you see fit.
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>> Perhaps so, btw did you speak to the person in question?
No.
She's been a friend for over 30 years; owns the company I drive the van for, so is my employer and is a genuinely 'nice' person who will make an effort in many other respects to be a good employer... also, plenty of people have said it's me in the wrong, although I have difficulty seeing it.
If I was driving for any Tom, Dick or Harry for a near minimum wage as a hobby job.. I would be having a word about my time being my time and not contacting me outside of a reasonable hour unless it is important.
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She's been a friend for over 30 years; owns the company I drive the van for, so is my employer and is a genuinely 'nice' person who will make an effort in many other respects to be a good employer... also, plenty of people have said it's me in the wrong, although I have difficulty seeing it.
If it were me and they such a good friend id have had a friendly nudge about it. But no drama either way now as you've sorted it on your phone.
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>> If it were me and they such a good friend id have had a friendly
>> nudge about it.
>>
I did. I asked one of the girls (florists) in the shop to do me a favour and drop out that I had the hump because I was woken up too early.
No confrontation, message passed, no weariness.... and not happened since, although too early really for any decent conclusion.
Most people unaware would change their angle once made aware. Decent ones would, anyway.. and she is.
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>>So 0700 might be in a grey area, some would, some wouldn't find it acceptable..
For a general phone call I would neither make nor expect to receive one outside 9.00am - 9.00pm.
outside those times it would depend on need.
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...baring strangers...
Flashers? They have an etiquette of their own.
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>> ...baring strangers...
>>
>> Flashers? They have an etiquette of their own.
>>
Que?
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>> Que?
Someone typed 'baring strangers' rather than 'barring strangers'
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 21:28
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Ah right that'd be me, i should have know this being car4play.
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"I still think it's is common politeness to think of others and have some consideration.... "
Which is why I would text someone rather than ring them. The text would sit on the phone until such time that they got up and got their act together. IMHO, your caller was being considerate in not actually phoning, but wanting to give you as much notice as possible.
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How I wish that you had made this point to the blokes who delivered our new bed this morning, while fingering your truncheon and jingling your handcuffs in a threatening manner.
I couldn't find bacon in the supermarket yesterday, but not even three fried eggs on a piece of bread and butter, liberally sprinkled with Worcester sauce, have made me feel more than a quarter human. Herself has been strangely unsympathetic throughout.
The blokes were supposed to ring first but they got the number wrong, and didn't have the sense to look it up.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 11:11
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(The above post is addressed to Wp in case anyone is wondering).
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What I do notice ( I'm going off at another tangent now by the way so feel free to ignore ) is that there does seem to be a significant correlation between being retired or semi-retired and having extraordinary anxieties about relatively trivial matters.
Maybe it's not good for you really, being retired I mean? Not that I'll ever have the chance to test the theory!
;-)
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I think the anxieties about this trivia is always there but when you're retired you have the time to indulge them.
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There are two extremes, some get really wound up about trivia, like the pedants. Me, as long as no one is dead or injured, all is well and problems can be fixed. Like the screamers you get in aircraft, pointless, any landing you can walk away from etc, if you can't not worth worrying about.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 11:53
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Maybe it's not good for you really, being retired...
Well, when you look at how many retired people end up dead, next to the number of working people who do...
};---)
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Statistically dangerous then? Thought as much.
;-)
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But at least we have reached retirement age. Do keep taking the medication, Will and Runfer.
;)
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 12:10
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Don't believe in doctors, they just tell you you're ill. Depressing coves doctors.
;-)
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I would put money on you changing your mind if (when) you have a big off trying to keep up with Runfer junior. :-)
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Depressing coves doctors.
>>
Never seen or heard that word used to describe someone before. Apparently it's from Romania. Every day is a school day and that.
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>> coves
>> Never seen or heard that word used to describe someone before. Apparently it's from Romania.
A Roma/Gypsy word, I presume? Probably related to "Chavvie" and latterly "Chav" by the sounds of it, via Serbo-Croat "ÄŒovek", which simply means "man".
Could be wrong but that would be my guess, based on what you say.
We're most of us in Europe speaking the same language with different accents.
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"cove" was used rather a lot in both the "Jennings" books and "Just William". Also in Enid Blyton books I seem to recall.
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Referring to someone as a cove did not register as anything unusual with me, it has been in use since I was a youngster, it just means a person. I admit it has not been in recent use much.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 15:13
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>> Referring to someone as a cove did not register as anything unusual with me, it
>> has been in use since I was a youngster, it just means a person. I
>> admit it has not been in recent use much.
>>
I wonder if it's more of an old fashioned word that's fallen out of use?
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>> I wonder if it's more of an old fashioned word that's fallen out of use?
>>
I would agree with that.
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Quite. Wodehouse uses it a lot but it's of its time. Sounds arch if used now.
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Sounds arch if used
>> now.
>>
That's another i take it. Meaning crafty or sly?
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I always thought it meant 'playful'
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Always taken "arch" in this context to mean "old fashioned".
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'Deliberately or affectedly playful and teasing', according to Oxford Dictionaries. Resemblance to 'archaism' is coincidental.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 09:27
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Whaddaya know. Always had that one wrong then.
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Not entirely, perhaps. Using an archaism, such as 'cove', is one form of the affected playfulness the term covers. But it's not the only one; the exaggerated 'Who, me?' thing we sometimes do when challenged with something both we and the challenger know to be true is another example.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 09:36
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See also: "Cur" (as in mangy), and "Drum" (not the musical instrument).
I love this stuff.
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and "Drum" (not the musical instrument).
>>
i couldn't find anything unusual on that one, apart from it being the name of a fish ive never heard of.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 15:23
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It's a word my father used a lot, but then he was born in 1907. He also used to refer to his casual clothes as his duds. His ( what we would chinos ) he called his cricket trousers. And he referred to his old school master as the Domini or Dome.
So there you have it.
;-)
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I had always thought of you as something of a young blade, Runfer. Apologies if I was mistaken.
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I am, sort of, ish, anyway. My dad was into his 50s when I was born.
;-)
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>> "Drum"
>> i couldn't find anything unusual on that one
Cheeky chirpy cockernees (gawd bless 'em) use it to refer to their home. Comes from a Roma word of the same spelling (but pronounced more as "droom"), meaning a lane.
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δÏόμου (dromou) in Greek means 'road' or 'lane'. 'Aerodrome' and 'hippodrome' are from that root.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 15:54
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Retsina means headache...or is that Ouzo or Metaxa? Never can remember...
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 15:56
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Μετάξα is lovely stuff, at least if it has seven stars on the label. I'm down to my last half-litre; must fix another trip to Athens soon.
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Over last few years I have noticed a disturbing trend in many MNC organizations.
5-6 years back, it was very rude to ask anyone to work during weekends unless it was an emergency.
But nowadays managers expect you to be available at weekends on a short notice (even when your contract of employment does not require to be available) - and often without any additional compensation!
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You can expect more of this if we leave the EU, movi. Along with summary "firings", American stylee. Won't be long before our Tory Overlords grant their pals in big business the rights to treat us like even worse dirt without the moderating, progressive influence of the EU.
Be careful what you wish for.
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>> You can expect more of this if we leave the EU, movi. Along with summary "firings", American stylee. Won't be long before our Tory Overlords grant their pals in big business the rights to treat us like even worse dirt without the moderating, progressive influence of the EU.
Let's see this from a different angle.
Employers can do this now because there is a flow of cheap labour.
This predominantly comes from 2 groups
1. Offshore vendors - predominantly based in India
2. Near shore vendors or labour coming from EU (typically East Europe).
Leaving EU means no change to [1] but reduced labour flow from [2].
So, leaving EU should improve the situation.
Being in EU does not provide job security. In UK employer can fire employees far easily compared to other countries e.g. France, Germany etc.
So, being in EU does not offer higher job security than not being in EU.
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Do you think, outside of the EU and under a Conservative government, that employment law will move nearer to, or further from the American hire'n'fire model? Do you think UK Employment Law will move in favour of employee or employer?
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I think UK employment law will move towards USA style hire-and-fire model - irrespective of whether we are inside or outside EU.
Otherwise how come French/Germans enjoy better employees' rights and job security?
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France and Germany are exceptional in this respect even within the EU. The whole business of labour relations there is more complex than in the UK, with unions and works councils more closely involved in management decisions.
Not many other countries have all that, but they do have to operate under the European rules on consultation in case of redundancy, and on transfer of undertakings and acquired rights. You can bet that a Conservative government would do exactly as Vić suggests to that if it wasn't bound by a commitment under our EU membership.
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>> Being in EU does not provide job security. In UK employer can fire employees far
>> easily compared to other countries e.g. France, Germany etc.
>>
>> So, being in EU does not offer higher job security than not being in EU.
While it's certainly true that we have less protection than France or Germany we have quite a lot that is dependent on EU directives. That's exactly the sort of 'red tape' people like Adam Beecroft would like to be rid of.:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9281161/Controversial-Beecroft-report-on-employment-reform-doctored-by-No-10.html
The fact that our current job market is more 'flexible' than mainland Europe isn't a QED for it would make no difference being out.
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Excellent, WDB. thanks. My knowledge of Greek is almost non-existent. "Drum" crops up in demotic cockernee rather than more "official" English, and English is generally derived from Latin/Germanic (linguistically speaking) sources, so my suspicion would be that the word arrived with Gypsies and was adopted by cockernee scallyways with whom they came in to contact rather than through any direct Greek contact in to English, otherwise its use would be more widespread than existing strictly in a local dialect.
It's also feasible that Roma gave Greek the word in the first place. It is widely used in "official" South Slavic languages such as Serbo-Croat - it hasn't made it in to Eastern Slavic languages so far as I'm aware, perhaps it crops up in Western Slavic.
Just my feelings (although I do have some academic background in the history of Indo-European languages) and two penn'orth.
I remember first hearing Yugoslavs using the Hungarian word "Ker" for dog in a version of their slang and a loud penny dropping regarding "mangy cur". Odd that in English we only ever use cur in partnership with mangy. Never heard of a healthy or delightful cur.
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I used have a boss, many many years ago, who liked to be addressed as 'sir'.
On internal memos ( not for his sight ) we used to spell it 'cur'
It made us feel a little better pathetically enough.
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I once drafted an email from a colleague to a senior executive in BMW as a favour. As a joke I phrased it in a way that Basil Fawlty may have approved of.
It occurred to me that the colleague was not a natural English speaker an didn't always strictly grasp meanings when I was copied on it as he forwarded it without edit.
I never did that again.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 21 Apr 16 at 16:19
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An ex-colleague used to type emails with double spaces between the lines. In the gaps between the lines she would type in white the real meaning of what she was saying or wanted to, but didn't dare. Once you got know her little secret you could highlight the gaps in a readable colour.
So you would get something like " We are very sorry to hear of your problems with our latest delivery" and underneath would be "if you ever got around to paying your damned bill on time we might feel inclined to care" and so on...
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> Cheeky chirpy cockernees (gawd bless 'em) use it to refer to their home. Comes from
>> a Roma word of the same spelling (but pronounced more as "droom"), meaning a lane.
>>
I couldn't find that meaning, although I've only been to London twice so not surprising I've not heard it before.
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I thought it meant 'drum and bass' - place aka home?
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Etiquette re time of day to contact people? - Old Navy
