***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 11 *****
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Continuing debate
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 23 Apr 16 at 17:14
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Good speech (as usual) from Nigel Farage earlier this week speaking at the European Parliament in Strasbourg:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDseAYw-gOE
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 15 Apr 16 at 10:11
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Statement to supporters of Leave.eu from Arron Banks.
On Wednesday the Electoral Commission appointed Vote Leave as the main designated campaign.
According to the Commission’s rationale and its own statement, Vote Leave had the support of a wider section of politicians – i.e. more Conservative MP’s – and was more inclusive. It took no account of the nearly 60,000 people who took the trouble to email the Electoral Commission with their support for our campaign.
The Vote Leave submission was a masterpiece in lies and misrepresentations. It listed ‘Brexit: The Movie’, and a host of other projects, people, and organisations, who had in fact not given their support to VL's application. Leave.eu funded £50,000 of the cost of ‘Brexit: The Movie’.
Vote Leave made no donation.
I hope you will go and see the movie when it hits the cinema screens next month. Your donations helped fund it.
Several Electoral Commissioners who had already declared themselves conflicted by their association with VL were allowed to vote, this meant the decision was invalid under the Commission’s own rules. We were advised that we would have won on this point alone.
In the end, we accepted the result for the greater cause of the campaign. There was a risk that legal action could have caused the referendum to be delayed until October, so tight is the timetable.
Such is the state of political corruption in the UK, we have started to resemble Italy or an African banana republic where influence and power can be bought or sold. The Electoral Commission is an unaccountable body in the back pockets of the politicians, who it serves. Like so many other unaccountable quangos its members are appointed to receive fat fees and return political favours!
The Electoral Commission publicly stated that they are disappointed in the Government’s decision to spend an extra £9m on the IN campaign, they say it’s unfair, but then just shrug their shoulders and do nothing about it.
Leave.EU has raised £9m in private donations from over 8,000 people, nearly one million supporters across the country, and we are immensely proud of the way we have shaken up the campaign!
Make no mistake, this is a fight between the people and the establishment.
We challenged ‘Vote Leave’ because they care more about the future of the Conservative Party than winning the referendum. There are 69 days to the Vote and we intend to fight harder than before for the future of this country. Leave.EU is now free to campaign the way we want, so expect fireworks!
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Hilarious. Rats in a sack have a better idea of decorum.
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So he's moaning about political corruption and democratic deficit in the UK and thinks leaving the EU will solve that.
Tit.
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"Several Electoral Commissioners who had already declared themselves conflicted by their association with VL were allowed to vote, this meant the decision was invalid under the Commission’s own rules. We were advised that we would have won on this point alone.
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"Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis tells Owen Jones he would love to give Brussels a shock – but a vote to leave the EU in the UK’s refrendum in June would lead to the disintegration of the European Union and a return to the xenophobia, racism and ultra-nationalism of the 1930s. He argues that it could also lead to Boris Johnson becoming prime minister".
Sounds like the ultimate scare story, but then I agree with much of what he says.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/apr/15/yanis-varoufakis-eu-owen-jones-video-interview
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>>In the end, we accepted the result for the greater cause of the campaign.
Broadminded and mature, way to go.
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The starting guns have been fired.
May the best " man " win.
( hopefully Vote Leave).
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>>( hopefully Vote Leave).
I'm with ^this leaver.
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So there is one vote for Vote Leave.
At the moment it is Vote Leave 1 Remain 0.
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The remainers (new word!) will crawl out of the woodwork sooner or later.
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But the leavers will still be in the dark, with the woodlice and other primitive forms:)
PS I'm not saying which way I intend to vote. Can see and feel the appeal of the "independence" view, but also the economic and strategic pull of the "remain" section.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 20:15
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I see George has got the Department of Guesswork to come up with some laughable load of rubbish about how we'll all be four grand worse off in about fifteen years time if we leave. Bearing in mind they can't even predict the state of the economy six months down the line that lacks a certain amount of credibility.
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The sort of piece with conclusions written before the argument is made, and using emotive language whilst accusing the Remain sect of legerdemain. Treasury have concluded, as have others, that there will be significant losses if the UK leaves the EU. There are very few studies that take an optimistic view. Ergo the Treasury is right in their estimates. Probably.
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Ah, but can you put a price on happiness? We might all be slightly worse off financially if we leave, but if we're all smiling and happy, is that not better off?
:o)
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A very quick poll at work showed the "youngsters" (under 30) to be totally uninterested, the 30/40 lot to be pretty much equally split but unlikely to bother to vote and all bar one of the over 40's were "leavers" !
Last edited by: Skip on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 21:23
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>>Ah, but can you put a price on happiness? We might all be slightly worse off financially if we leave, but if we're all smiling and happy, is that not better off?
Exactly the way I see it Sp. I would willing take a cut in my wealth, to be out of the European Union.
I know a few millionaires = money and misery, what with their Bentleys and PT Cruisers.
:o}
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I don't see the logic Dog of the happy argument.We are all smiling and happy if we are out the EU.?
If we had good and fair politicians who would look after us yes I see your point.But this lot who divide a nation I can't see the happiness.
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>>I don't see the logic Dog of the happy argument.We are all smiling and happy if we are out the EU.?
Well I will be smiling and happy if we vote to leave the EU Dutchie, and I'll wager I won't be the only one :-)
>>If we had good and fair politicians who would look after us yes I see your point. But this lot who divide a nation I can't see the happiness.
The EU is an over-bloated un-democratic gross waster of money. I've travelled through France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Czechoslovakia (former) Poland, Spain and Portugal, and seen vast building projects, funded by the EU where, no doubt, many have done very well from the money they have trousered (another new word!) But I also see vast amounts of unemployment and suffering forced on the people via austerity thanks to the EU + ECB + IMF.
The European Union badly needs reforming. Many say we must stay in to help reform it, but it doesn't appear to work that way in its current form. The unelected bureaucrats run the show, and there's nothing democratic about that guv'nor so, I'm out.
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72 times the UK has tried to oppose EU legislation and 72 times it has failed.
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>> 72 times the UK has tried to oppose EU legislation and 72 times it has
>> failed.
That's not actually surprising.
Are you saying that nothing has ever been successfully opposed by the parliament, ever, or that when it was, UK voted in on the losing side? IFSWIM.
UK has 8% of MEPs, so we are in much the same position as the Lib Dems have been (except when in coalition) since they were formed. Unless there is a vote close enough for us to hold the balance of power, which I imagine happens infrequently, then our vote will never be decisive. The same applies to every other member state.
One frequently made assertion that I question is that, on the premise that our relationship with the EU is not what we would want, we have more influence while we have "a seat at the table". This is clearly wrong, as Cameron has found, for the simple reason that all members have essentially to abide by the same rules - that also means having the same relationship with the rest of the world on trade. If we want to change that, we have to be out.
It would be very strange if we could not change agreements with some non-EU countries to mutual advantage. The offset would be any worsening of trade agreements with the EU. And of course there would be the cost of change.
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@Dog:
>> The UK is an over-bloated un-democratic gross waster of money. I've travelled through England, Scotland,
>> Wales and Northern Ireland, and seen vast building projects, funded by
>> the EU where, no doubt, many have done very well from the money they have
>> trousered (another new word!) But I also see vast amounts of unemployment and suffering forced
>> on the people via austerity thanks to the UK Government, both Tory and Labour run.
>>
>> The United Kingdom badly needs reforming. Many say we must stay in to help reform
>> it, but it doesn't appear to work that way in its current form. The unelected
>> Civil Servants run the show and legislation is rubber stamped by an unelected second chamber and monarch, and there's nothing democratic about that guv'nor.
Maybe the SNP had a point. But I wouldn't trust them to do it any better.
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I believe that interest rates will rise. They will need to rise to protect the value of the Pound, which will be the target of currency speculators if the UK votes for a Brexit.
Increasing interest rates will hit people that have mortgages but will potentially benefit people that have savings with the quid-pro-quo being potential rise in fuel, heating, power and food costs as the Pound's value slides.
Increased interest rates will put companies out of business. In my portfolio I have companies borrowing several hundred million and a significant number are "zombies", that is they are surviving because interest rates are so low. They do not make enough profit to pay even moderately more interest. The impact of a rate rise is that many of these companies will at best have to lay staff off and at worst will fail, meaning that all their staff will lose their jobs and many of their suppliers will have bad debts with potential job losses as well.
Eventually these zombie companies will have to face increased interest costs but if they are all hit at once in an unmanaged fashion, it will be a disaster for UK small to medium enterprises - a significant part of the UK economy.
Just the "zombie" companies on just my portfolio, that's 3,000 jobs, not including their suppliers.
It is a lot to risk.
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Whichever way the vote goes, it will be extremely narrow. One opinion poll I saw today had the INs and OUTs pretty much neck and neck. The outcome will be how the small percentage of undeciders vote.
Because of the anticipated narrowness, I don't think this festering issue of Europe will be laid to rest either way.
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If the referendum does not go the way the government wants they will call foul and keep repeating it until they get the answer they want.
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Pretty much like the Scottish referendum then. I have no problem with the Scots having a vote but maybe the English should get a vote on the matter as well...
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Fortunately the SNP realise they have to seen to be financially competent. So no chance.
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How the result will be counted?
[1] Is it total number of votes cast in favour of leave or remain
OR
[2] declaring a winner in each constituency (i.e. similar to general elections)?
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If the seventies version is the precedent, and I'm pretty sure it is, it's total votes cast. Results though will be counted and declared regionally. Thus we will know how Scotland, Wales and England individually vote and he regions within each country.
IIRC the Western Isles voted against then, possibly Orkney/Shetland too. Given the extent to which that area has benefitted from regional funds in the last forty years I doubt the result will be replicated this time.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 19 Apr 16 at 09:32
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It wouldn't really be a referendum if it were not to be decided on the total votes cast and that is indeed how it works.
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I see that Barry Hussain O'Bummer is sticking his hooter into the Brexit discussion.
OK - here's a suggestion, pal- we think that the USA should enter into a political union with Canada and the various nations in South America.
Your laws will largely be made by unelected bureaucrats and the starving hordes will have free access to your country, undeterred by the fact you have massive unemployment in sections of your society already.
No - I guess that's not your game plan.
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 09:43
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Words 4, 5 and 6 of that explosion of verbal diarrhoea render the rest of it inadmissible as any kind of reasoned argument.
See own foot, take aim, fire.
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>> Words 4, 5 and 6 of that explosion of verbal diarrhoea render the rest of
>> it inadmissible as any kind of reasoned argument.
>>
>> See own foot, take aim, fire.
>>
Only to self interested blinkered Europhiles. (The EU as an institution, not Europe as Nation States)
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>> Only to self interested blinkered Europhiles. (The EU as an institution, not Europe as Nation
>> States)
"self-interested" and "blinkered" coming from you ?? Are you that dumb or can you really not see yourself?
As a supporter of Leave and UKIP you are the best friend that Stay and the main parties could have.
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No, Roger, the point I was making was that anyone on the fence about the issue seeking out argument to convince them to go one way or the other, will read the start of your post and realise it is the product of a feverishly insane mind behind hyper-speed rotating swivel-eyes and dismiss any argument you may have out of hand.
But you carry on mate. Helps our side no end.
(Self interested? Snork. Such a beacon of generosity and help that you attitudes present to us. If you could look beyond the blinkers of your Spanish property woes and fear of Worksop being turned black you might arrive at some form of enlightenment on the matter.)
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>>Barry Hussain O'BummerBomber
Corrected for you.
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>> Corrected for you.
You correcting something? That's ironic.
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Hmmm...so we should give more weight to the advice of the leader of a union of states that rose to global pre-eminence by pooling sovereignty on matters of mutual interest, or to that of a clapped out car salesman and failed local council candidate with a racist axe to grind?
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Gnu - your invective is no better!
What sort of clapped our individual are you?
Actually, Obama is widely regarded as a failure in his own country and he has been called far worse there!
Only thing worse would be the harridan, Clinton, replacing him
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 10:31
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Still working for a living in a transnational business that demonstrates the value of international partnership, thanks very much. With local and foreign colleagues and customers that I value for their diversity and don't despise for the colour of their skin.
You've misunderstood my point as something personal to Obama; it wasn't - it referred to the office he holds and the country he leads.
You're an embarrassment to the cause you espouse.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 10:41
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>>or to that of a clapped out car salesman and failed local council candidate with a racist axe to grind? >>
If that isn't personal .............................. !
Here's some more...................Gnu - you are merely an employee whose self interest about your employment outweighs your sense of duty, patriotism and the sense of worth and history of the United Kingdom.
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>>merely an employee
Merely? Is being an employee bad then?
>>whose self interest about your employment
Why do you think self-interest would push him to vote Stay? Is that because you believe that out would harm his employment prospects?
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You really haven't a clue, have you, Rog? If you'd understood a word I've written on this subject you'd know that I've always been an internationalist - since before I first worked abroad at 17. I enjoy working where I do (partly) because of that, not the other way round. And that's why I don't want your abhorrent views pitching us back into the 1930s.
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" Internationalist " UGH!
We could not be further apart - your views are abhorrent "One World" nonsense to me,!
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Beats your "Different Planet" nonsense hands down.
Tell me, which World was Spain in when you took up the option to freely go and live there?
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>> Tell me, which World was Spain in when you took up the option to freely go and live there?
If you take out an annual European travel insurance policy with the Post Office you will be asked if you want Spain included. Apparently there a European policy that doesn't include Spain, Cyrpus and Turkey and one that does. Russia's included in both versions.
I have no idea why Spain is excluded from one of them!
All I hope with the vote is enough younger people realise the importance of the vote. The older generation being more likely to vote and quite likely to vote to leave. But you might not be around if it all goes wrong - it could take many many years to leave anyway. The two years of discussion probably would not be enough.
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>>I have no idea why Spain is excluded from one of them!
It was driven by insurers reacting to different laws around bond recognition in Spain.
i.e. if a European insurer committed cover any liability that legally enforced commitment would be accepted most places. Spain, however, insisted upon a bond.
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I think you are alluding to motor insurance and the old requirement for bail bonds in addition to a green card when travelling to Spain, neither of which are now necessary
The issue refered to I believe is the the new practice of some travel insurers excluding Spain from their standard European cover. This is being done for cost reasons. Apparently hospital and ambulance charges in Spain are over twice the European average and there has been talk of some hospitals there not honouring the reciprocal European health care arrangements.
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You may well be correct about the current situation and costs, its been a few years and much has changed.
>>here has been talk of some hospitals there not honouring the reciprocal European health care arrangements.
Though this is similar to the original challenge which was the willingness of some Spanish organisations to step away from seemingly reciprocal agreements.
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So Rog is more sexist than he is racist. Interesting. Not uncommon amongst UKIP representatives, of course. Sluts, was it?
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Do you think Vote Leave has a fridge big enough to hide him behind for the duration?
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Brexit will have repercussions beyond our shores and beyond the EU. International leaders would be negligent not to point that out.
How many foreign leaders or international bodies are saying Brexit will be just fine?
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But Bromp, you're forgetting that they're all just self-serving foreigners who want the UK to keep subsidizing their sinister crypto-communist agenda.
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>> >>
>> How many foreign leaders or international bodies are saying Brexit will be just fine?
>>
Maybe foreign leaders and international organisations think it will suit them better to have Britain's hands tied as members of the EU? As for being an internationalist as someone said, I regard myself as one, but that does not mean being a member of any particular club.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 16:11
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Did you read that 'hands tied' bit back before you pressed Post, RR? Or did the tin foil hat slip over your eyes?
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 16:12
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>> So Rog is more sexist than he is racist. Interesting. Not uncommon amongst UKIP representatives, of course. Sluts, was it? >>
Which, as you well know, but conveniently choose to ignore, was a light-heated joke made to a mixed audience, the distaff side of which were (a) not offended and (b) amused by it.
I'm afraid that UKIP is still/was getting too PC in order to curry favour with a section of the population whose narrow minded PC attitudes, such as that of several members of this forum, would make them unlikely ever to vote for us.
No chance of sexism in our house with the lady to whom I'm married!
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Apart from the fact I did vote UKIP in a European election once, you've got me there, narrow minded of course. Probably around the same time you were swilling Cruzcampo, munching Paella, enjoying the sun by means of your freedom to travel anywhere in Europe, and not thinking twice about old Blighty and its place in Europe whilst it suited you to enjoy the benefits our membership brings. Benefits you now want, dog-in-a-manger like, to deprive the rest of us of.
You're right about one thing though, I always find it's amusing to use the word "sluts" in the company of ladies to describe their standards as a gender. Goes down a treat. Ho ho ho.
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What I can't quite tell us whether Rog is just giving us the 'PC' Ukip party line, so what he really thinks is even worse.
I confess I am uneasy about the outcome of this referendum - more so than I was about the Scottish one. I hope it's just that I get a skewed view from sites like this, and that provided the under-50 vote can be mobilized effectively in June, we can see off the likes of Rog and their loathsome, regressive attitudes once and for all.
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Please, please, let the 24th June be British Independence day, so we can see off you and your loathsome, faux progressive, attitudes once and for all.
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Would you have been so bitter if you hadn't lost your a*** in the Spanish property market?
I'm guessing you blame others for your failures and often that's foreign people.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 15:54
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You do bang on - we did NOT lose our a***s as you so elegantly put it!
The whole of Britain & much of Europe was in the throes of a property slump at the time.
We knew this and made a conscious decision to sell & return ANYWAY. Our CHOICE!
We sold for less than our place owed us, but so did many others both in Spain and elsewhere.
We came back with enough to buy a home outright, furnish it and buy a modest car.
.
So disabuse yourself of the notion that either of is is bitter about it.
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I think he was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you what might in court be a defence of 'provocation'. But you're telling us you weren't provoked into this state; it's just the way you are.
You might have done better to take what you were offered.
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You lost your a***, you're bitter about it and you know it. Bet you didn't buy the furniture, house or car you thought you would, and so you're facing the evidence of that failure every day.
I'd feel sorry for you if you weren't the type of person that you are.
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>> You lost your a***, you're bitter about it and you know it. Bet you didn't
>> buy the furniture, house or car you thought you would, and so you're facing the
>> evidence of that failure every day.
>>
>> I'd feel sorry for you if you weren't the type of person that you are.
>>
You are repetitious in your misunderstanding. Give over, do.
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>> Please, please, let the 24th June be British Independence day, so we can see off
>> you and your loathsome, faux progressive, attitudes once and for all.
>>
And if it's a vote to stay in the EU? What then?
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He'll find someone to blame. Could be legal immigrants, could be people not clever enough to see the light, could be people who don't appreciate any number of things.
But whatever it is, he won't accept it, will remain bitter and twisted and will blame someone.
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>>But whatever it is, he won't accept it, will remain bitter and twisted and will blame someone.
No doubt the Scots.
And I wish he'd stop using "British" when he means English.
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"Please, please, let the 24th June be British Independence day"
Roger, you are very naughty ....... please, please stop goading the sniffers.
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No carry on please Roger, the more drivel you spout the more convinced some of us become of our remain views. You are providing an excellent service in reminding us how important it will be to vote on this one. Keep it coming, it's certainly working for me.
;-)
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As I said, Roger does more for the cause against UKIP and Stay then any of their more obvious supporters.
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I do not generally start personal abuse of other forum members - that attitude seems to be reserved for the folks here who are "remainers".
OTH I sometimes do diss other known public figures such as "Call me Dave" Spoon-face Camoron, Tony B-liar and Snot-Gobbler Brown !
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Very good ! That's the sort of thing ! Excellent !
;-)
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>> Snot-Gobbler
A most unpleasant and distasteful expression.
I can remember it being freely used many years back by some frightening hard boys in suits, from Brighton I think but they sounded ultra-London. God they were nasty, somehow reminiscent of Graham Greene's novel Brighton Rock, featuring racecourse gangs... very wide berth time.
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>> Actually, Obama is widely regarded as a failure in his own country and he has been called far worse there! (=: is not taken seriously by moronic American racists and is regularly slandered by them)
>> Only thing worse would be the harridan, Clinton, replacing him
OOh you are awful Roger... and I'm not sure I always like you although you are not devoid of virtues.
Barack Obama is 'black' and Hillary Clinton is a woman, so you have a full racist and sexist hand... Yee-hah!, what?
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Romania have been expelled! Must say, I didn't see this coming.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36111208
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I am tempted to vote IN in the E.U. referendum.
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>>I am tempted to vote IN in the E.U. referendum
You were tempted to vote OUT a few days ago. You don't know whether you're coming or going, Arthur or Martha, or the man/woman in the moon.
:o}
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I have a doubt to stay IN and I have a doubt to stay OUT.
I am just confused which way to vote.
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>>I have a doubt to stay IN and I have a doubt to stay OUT.
>>I am just confused which way to vote.
You appear to have difficulties making any decisions, hence the lack of debating ability NoFM2R has remarked upon.
The art of discussion is to form an opinion and then have it challenged/challenge it yourself, and keep or change your opinion accordingly.
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>>I am just confused which way to vote.
You could always try voting now, just to get the feel of it: eureferendum.uk
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Probably half the voters for Brexit actually think that they are voting for the UK European Song Contest anyway.
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My 88 yo mum doesn't. Since Obama voiced off she tells me she will definitely be voting to leave.
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"Since Obama voiced off she tells me she will definitely be voting to leave."
Can you imagine what the Americans would say if Mr Cameron went over there to offer them political advice?
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I shouldn't think that the chance of them even noticing is all that high.
Although having said that i do seem to recall some furour or other in the last 13 months where a bunch of yanks got their knickers in a knot about just that. Goodness knows what the subject was though.
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Obama has made my mind up.
I am going to vote to LEAVE the European union.
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I am not in the business to criticise anyone about my point of view.
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D>> I am not in the business to criticise anyone about my point of view.
>>
How do you make up this stuff?
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Amazing what can be achieved with algorithms.
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So is anyone [a plonker] who chooses for that reason. He's just told us that one of the Outers' central arguments - that the UK could negotiate its own reciprocal trade deal with the US - is not true. (Or that even if it was possible the US would have many higher priorities elsewhere.) And why should the rest of the world change its mind about preferring to negotiate with us through the medium of the EU?
Sensible people consider the information rather than reacting petulantly to the source it came from. Try it.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 19:34
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I do not believe that leaving the European Union would damage our trade agreement with the United States of America.
We are too closely tied to the U.S in defence and security to cause damage to our trade relationship.
The Germans export more to us than we export to the Germans.
Through our financial services industry there are more American banks in London than American banks in New York.
London in my opinion is the global hub for financial services and trade.
We have the 5th biggest economy in the world according to The Economist.
According to the Ministry of Defence we spend 2% of our G.D.P on defence.
We spend 0.7% of our G.D.P on international trade according to The Treasury.
According to the DWP we have an unemployment rate of 5.1% ( a ten year low.)
Our employment rate is 73.4% according to the DWP.
What more could be said about our right to decide our own destiny in the European Union.
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>> I do not believe that leaving the European Union would damage our trade agreement with
>> the United States of America.
Which trade agreement is that? Do you know?
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I do. It's the one that the President has just told us won't happen.
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We do not have a trade agreement with the U.S.A.
I will be more carefull how I phrase things.
Sorry.
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It's not how you phrase things Fluffy. It's more fundamental. You don't seem to understand the issues. The USA does not depend on the UK for defence, but vice versa. They are not likely to feel obliged to give favourable terms to a indigent, isolated minor player. Outside the EU, if we decide on that move, the Germans or especially the French will not be doing us any favours, and our export profile will be worsened. Finance will move away. Our sordid remnants of Imperial power, the off-shore tax havens, and our indigenous institutions reliant on the shroud of secrecy, will no longer be tolerated.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 20:28
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There has been discussion as to whether you are a (possibly) ex member of this forum or a bored schoolkid. I don't think anybody thinks you are real. Although a couple have suggested that perhaps you are "challenged" in a medically diagnosable way.
I think you must be a kid because i don't think any ex member that i can recall was quite this stupid.
So i reckon you must be a bored kid.
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What I write should be backed up with the facts.
It will be a lot easier to understand.
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Is it even worth pointing out to faffy that those excellent economic performance figures he points to are those of an economy IN the EU?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 19:57
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ANY well run campaign plans ahead and does its research.
Where are the Leave campaign's foreign leaders saying they will welcome us with open arms?
Where are their detailed forecasts showing the impact of no restrictions, less red tape and better trade deals?
Where are the analysis showing what restricting immigration will have on UK wages?
The detailed economic forecasts by friendly economists?
Answer: there are none.
Lots of words. FA analysis.
And then they wonder why they are losing.
Bunch of amateurs . And Farage is the worst., He has had 20 years to prepare all this and has done SFA..
Leave to lose badly - and deservedly so..Run by amateurs with no idea to run a drinking session in a brewery..
Last edited by: madf on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 19:53
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Nige surpassed himself today. Obama's warning was - apparently - the product of an anti-British grudge born of his (half-)Kenyan background. Must have been an extra-good lunch.
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He really is coming into his own. No wonder dodgy rodgy loves him.
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>>He's just told us that one of the Outers' central arguments - that the UK could negotiate its own reciprocal trade deal with the US - is not true. (Or that even if it was possible the US would have many higher priorities elsewhere.) And why should the rest of the world change its mind about preferring to negotiate with us through the medium of the EU?
The difference between you and Brexiters like me is that you doubt that Britain could succeed and indeed thrive economically after exiting the European Union, whereas I have every faith in my country and its people. Japan and Australia manage to go it alone in the world, so why shouldn't Great Britain, the worlds 5th largest economy do likewise.
Even if Jehovah God himself came out of a burning bush with one of his stone tablets stating Dog must vote to remain in the European Union, I'd still vote to leave, just like no one could possibly change your mind. So all this huffing and puffing on here isn't going to change things one bit really. The Brexiters are as steadfast as the stayers, but it all passes half hour now and again I suppose.
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Ah well you see Dog I was once anti-EU. Times change, and one has to adjust in the face of evidence.
Well, I do anyway. Suppose that makes me narrow minded.
Don't know why all the rightie tighties are getting their capacious panties in a bunch about Obama. International statesman makes statement about international affairs. News? No. Black person a bit fron Kenya? Oh...
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Slight thread drift - how did Obama's chopper (Marine 1) get here? It can't fly from the States, can it? Military transport plane?
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No bretbort links, not had any in a while, is he still shouting alot?
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>> Slight thread drift - how did Obama's chopper (Marine 1) get here? It can't fly
>> from the States, can it? Military transport plane?
>>
Stripped down and air transported I would think, most likely a C17. You can AAR them across the pond and some (IIRC) can even 'hop' across, but I doubt it in this case.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 20:53
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EU IN/OUT Referendum Thursday 23/06/16 - Volume 10 - Dog
