Like most people, I've received my annual water bill for 2016/17. It got me thinking, why can't I pick and choose my service provider like I can with all other utilities?
Power comes through the same cables whether its supplied by Eon or Scottish Power so why can't my water be 'provided' by a competitor in the same pipes?
Seems unfair that a small handful of large and often foreign owned monopolies can charge an ever increasing fortune. Seems to me there should be greater competition.
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I think it's to do with 'owning' the water to sell you it. If it were like electric you could move it about a national grid, however there is no national grid for water. It's an infrastructure issue IIRC, I remember reading about when a similar question was asked of the regulator.
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I guess that gas and electricity are fundamentally the same whoever you buy it from. The companies effectively buy it wholesale and resell it to you. Water is different. the water companies actually "generate" their own supplies via their own infrastructure of reservoirs, bore holes, pipelines etc and the differing costs reflect the differing costs from area to area.
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Just wait until the population dahn sarf gets to the point where desalination plants are required and see what it costs. We have tons of the stuff going spare, build a national grid and I am sure we will sell you some. :-)
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We have the basis of a national grid in the canal network. Which would also be a good thing to use for non-urgent non-perishable goods in transport.
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Unlike Electricity there is no split between "generation" and "transmission" and "distribution" and there no nationwide vertical integration in what might be called the "wholesale" areas.
Without that it would be difficult to set up a competitive playing field.
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>> Unlike Electricity there is no split between "generation" and "transmission" and "distribution"
We do all those things in-house. Well, pipe, and pump.
No water bills.
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Fairly small numbers that are off the water grid for all three of supply, drainage and waste.
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>>We do all those things in-house. Well, pipe, and pump. No water bills.
Same here + sceptic tank + solid fuel heating + band C for a 3 bed detached ... what's not to like.
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We do actually have a competitive market in England and Wales. It is currently only available for very large businesses and MOD etc. The local water company acts as a wholesaler and others can compete to supply to the customer. Essentially, this means they get to bill the customer and fix problems etc. The market is opening up further in 2017 to all businesses.
Scotland has had this open market for several years now. In due course, it will open up to individual household customers but prob not until sometime in the 2020s at a guess.
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>> Just wait until the population dahn sarf gets to the point where desalination plants are
>> required and see what it costs. We have tons of the stuff going spare, build
>> a national grid and I am sure we will sell you some. :-)
Given that climate change means we are drowning in excess water, you can stuff yours up your loch.
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Is climate change the new global warming? Or just a blame all phenomenon.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 18 Mar 16 at 14:15
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>> Is climate change the new global warming?
global warming is the name used by climate change deniers
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I do not deny climate change, it has been continuous for millions of years.
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global warming is the name used by climate change deniers
Global warming was used by the climate change camp at first, but they changed it to climate change. Because, some places get a bit colder/wetter/windier you just blame climate change for all your woes and there is little chance of anyone effectively denying it. Sure, they'll deny, but with any change blamed on the same thing, it gets a bit tricky.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Fri 18 Mar 16 at 15:02
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>> Just wait until the population dahn sarf gets to the point where desalination plants are
>> required and see what it costs. We have tons of the stuff going spare, build
>> a national grid and I am sure we will sell you some. :-)
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Who is/are 'We'?
Are you a fully fledged Scot now?
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>> Are you a fully fledged Scot now?
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No, just an immigrant, I have only lived here for 40 odd years.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 18 Mar 16 at 15:04
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>> >> Are you a fully fledged Scot now?
>> >>
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>> No, just an immigrant, I have only lived here for 40 odd years.
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And you think that gives you the right to come on a forum and stir us up?
Totally unacceptable.. Repatriation looms....
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Glad you said repatriation rather than rendition. :-)
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>> Who is/are 'We'?
>>
>> Are you a fully fledged Scot now?
He is a rejected englishman in exile.
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You can reject me from the Greater London area any time you like. You have to get out to realise how dire the quality of life is.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 18 Mar 16 at 15:29
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>> You can reject me from the Greater London area any time you like. You have
>> to get out to realise how dire the quality of life is.
You have to be a peasant to not appreciate it.
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Pheasant is not too bad. :-)
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>> Pheasant is not too bad. :-)
Only when hung for a few days.
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I can think of a few reasons why you have to pay to local company for water:
1. They have to actually provide water as already said
2. They have to get rid of and treat waste water including run off water
3. Not everyone has a metered service
If everyone was on a meter I suppose cross-charging might work. But how much would NW Water get from Sainsbury's if they were a supplier in an area?
I think we're stuck with the market as it is for now at least.
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As others say it's mostly an infrastructure issue. We've had an electric grid for the best part of a century and built one for gas on the back of move from town to natural gas. Proposals for a water grid are floated from time to time, usually during long droughts. Building one would be a massive undertaking requiring state funding & direction that's anathema to UK Govts of both stripes since the Thatcher years.
Furthermore water is not a universal product. What comes out of the boreholes here and what flows off peaty ground in Scotland are chalk and cheese. The differ in ph, in mineral content and in many other ways. While a grid using canals and rivers is superficially appealing the ecological cost of introducing (say) Scottish water into the River Aire is unknown but will undoubtedly be detrimental to fragile bits of the eco system.
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Mentioning things that "irk", - Rainwater!! - without it their (Water co's) effluent systems would not operate effectively. The "clean" Rainwater flushes their lines preventing smells from every grid, manhole etc. and keeps the slurry tanks fluid etc. etc . They NEED it. We GIVE it to them,and let them charge us, when we should bill them for it. My own run-off for example creeps under the back gate and soaks away in some unclaimed/derelict land. They don't get any of mine but I still pays for it!
Technically they should calculate how much Water your property generates for a "Std Average yearly rainfall for your area" and either pay you a set price for it (same as theirs) or discount that amount of water from your meter reading before calculating the bill.
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They don't get any of mine but I still pays for it!
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i used to get a discount because none went into the water boards drains.mind you you'd still have to pay for the drainage system one way or the other.
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>>you'd still have to pay for the drainage system one way or the other.
Mine was paid for about 100 years back, as the house was built with two gutter soakaways so they would have been included in the price. I imagine this is so with many houses.
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I mean the main drainage system not individual houses. They'll be ongoing maintenance costs plus upgrades etc.
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Our water co charge different rates for wastewater depending on whether surface drainage is included or not. There is also an explicit add on for highway drainage.
www.anglianwater.co.uk/household/your-account/bills-and-payments/tariffs/standard-rates/
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 20 Mar 16 at 17:11
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>> Technically they should calculate how much Water your property generates for a "Std Average yearly
>> rainfall for your area" and either pay you a set price for it (same as
>> theirs) or discount that amount of water from your meter reading before calculating the bill.
>>
We are entirely water-neutral.
Before the house was built the underground springs just went on flowing and the rain landed on the ground and either soaked in or ran off down the fields and natural drains and ended up in the river at the bottom of the valley.
Plonk a house on the land and pump some water up for the inhabitants to drink, and then they pee and it goes into some kind of ancient septic tank and seeps back into the soil again, cleaned, and at some point downhill presumably rejoins the flow.
There is no infrastructure, no man-made drainage beyond the bounds of the property, and the only cost is electricity to pump water up to the roof tank occasionally.
If the spring were higher up the slope even that could be done by gravity.
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Ours comes down a ruddy great big 4 ft pipe, 100 miles long, from Thirlmere and Haweswater. It runs 6ft from the end of my garden It's top quality stuff, very drinkable. Worth paying for. Very soft, never get a trace of the clat that peeps get in the kettle and bog.
I'd like to see the reducer that they use to get it to my 15mm taps !
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I hope you mean pressure as well as diameter. :-)
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Our water charges are based upon a very low rateable value of £130.00, last set I think, when the house was built in the mid 1980s.
Water supply is at £114.31 per £1 of RV and sewerage is at £117.01 for every £1 of RV.
Total due £300.69 for this year.
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Water bills - sooty123
