I am off for a 10 day break in June, I have a free Eurostar ticket to any where I want from London and as I am going into Spain I thought about going to either Lyon or Marseille and spending the night there. I have stayed in Lyon before and enjoyed the place, but I wonder what Marseille is like, I have read some very mixed things about the city.
Marseille is slightly closer to Spain but it doesn't make that much difference in terms of train times.
I need to get booking this soon, as I will also be spending a day and night in London.
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If it is just for the night and you know you like Lyon, then go there.
I actually prefer Marseille, but it is better in the day time and would take a few hours to get to know - which you may not have.
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Yeah it is just a stop gap, arrive into either city around midday so I will have a full afternoon and evening there, although my train to Barcelona is very early in the morning regardless of which city I leave from so would need an early night.
Lyon seemed compact enough I stayed in Part Dieu as I had to be next to the train station was my train to Nice was at 7:30am but I managed to walk into the main old town from there.
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With so little time I reckon you're best to go somewhere you know you will enjoy.
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>> With so little time I reckon you're best to go somewhere you know you will
>> enjoy.
>>
I beg to differ. You've never been to Marseille; so go. Lucky devil!
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You can get a damn good meal almost anywhere in France, but I remember Lyon as being especially good.
Not cheap though.
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Lyons'
Founded by Joe Lyons.
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Lyon! It's nearly all nice, provided you avoid the pointless business district sarf of the river.
Old town is beautiful if you're just sitting and having a glass of wine with lunch, or trek up the several hundred steps to the museum built into the hill and wander around the coliseum at the top. The double decker cathedral is worth a stroll around too.
At EasyJet it is *the* place to be based, and even people who've moved on to other things still commute from there.
Marseille is - in my educated opinion - a dump.
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Marseilles, if you are into bouillabaisse. Show you are au fait by ordering Vin de Cassis with it. A recommendation from a local connoisseur about three years ago was for Chez Michel, rue des Catalans. If there is time, you might be able to fit in a boat trip to the Chateau d'If.
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Lyon. And visit www.cafecomptoirabel.fr/ which is probably my favourite restaurant - for just straightforward, honest French cooking. The veal sweetbreads and the andouillette might be a bit French for you Rattle, but try the sausage with lentils "Saucisson chaud aux lentilles" followed by the "poule au riz" - chicken with rice.
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>> Lyons'
>>
>> Founded by Joe Lyons.
Makes nice cakes too ;)
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Rats,
Where in Spain are you going?
You've been to Lyon, so can I suggest Montpellier if your trip south takes you across the border in eastern Spain? Or Bordeaux if you'll cross at Irun heading west or into northern Spain.
Marseille's taking you out of your way wherever you're going.
If you haven't seen it already, the Man in Seat 61's guide to rail travel in France is a pretty good starting point for where to go and how to get there: tinyurl.com/h4onplr
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Not sure exactly where I am going in Spain yet but it will start in Barcelona then onto either some where in further north e.g Costa Brava or the Costa Durada. Montpellier is closer to Spain but the Eurostar doesn't go there and I have a free ticket so I may as well use it go further than Paris.
The Eurostar goes to Lyon, Avagon or Marseille so those are my three choices. I did look into Montpellier but I wouldn't get there till around 4pm and I am trying to limit the amount of connections I need to make each day. Hence staying the first night in London.
My last trip involved me going to Nice/Monaco before going into Spain and that really was a hell of a way in terms of all the connections. That journey went wrong two as the train to Montpellier was two hours late but I still got to Spain.
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OK, that makes sense Rats.
How are you getting from Lyon or Marseilles into Spain? Book a separate ticket?
Choosing between those two I'd opt for Lyon - mostly to satisfy my inner carnivore and have dinner (and lunch too if I could manage it!) in a traditional boucherie.
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Yep I will be getting a separate train, think from memory it is 7:19am from Lyon, there are later ones but they get into Spain late.
On the way back I will probably do my usual night train from Perpignan to Paris which is the cheapest way of doing it. I think I am sold on Lyon is only around four and a half hours from St Pancras. I have to stay in the business district though because I need to be right next to the station as I don't want to rely on public transport or expensive taxis that time in the morning.
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>> Rats,
>> Where in Spain are you going?
Where have you been, Gromit? You are a very infrequent contributor these days.
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I've been around, Duncan, but I tend only to chip in if I've something (hopefully) useful to add to the discussion.
Now, where to stop over for a decent meal in France...that's a pet subject of mine :-)
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>> Now, where to stop over for a decent meal in France...that's a pet subject of mine :-)
Practically anywhere at meal times... look for a place with happy Frogs eating or waiting for a table. If there are only foreigners, try somewhere else.
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Sadly McDonalds in France is usually stuffed to the gunnels with Johnny Frenchie. And Buffalo Grill is, too. My nippers love it in there, but I can't for the life of me imagine why grown up French folk seem to love 'dining' there. They appear to make special trips to them (they're always located on industrial parks on the periphery of town) and dress smartly for the occasion. Those frenchies aren't' what they used to be.
:-(
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One of mine once ate an enormous ice cream sundae thing in a Buffalo, and then promptly un-ate it.
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A complete change of plan now, I tried to book the Eurostar but I can only get the free ticket to Paris not Lyon. I am now thinking of staying a night in Paris in a cheap Ibis hotel and possibly not staying the night in London.
The next day I can get a direct train from Paris to Barcelona for around £80, however if I get off at Perpignan the ticket is only £37.50 even though it appears to be the same train. So If I get a ticket from Paris to Perpignan, then Perpignan to Barcelona but just move seats would it be legal like split ticketing is in the UK?
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Jeez, get on with it Sheikha.
Have a lovely time, and let us know about it afterwards. Not in too much detail though, OK? Most of us aren't rabid keen timetable enthusiasts.
No offence though Ratto. You make this place a bit happier than it would be without you, knowImean?
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>> The next day I can get a direct train from Paris to Barcelona for around
>> £80, however if I get off at Perpignan the ticket is only £37.50 even though
>> it appears to be the same train. So If I get a ticket from Paris
>> to Perpignan, then Perpignan to Barcelona but just move seats would it be legal like
>> split ticketing is in the UK?
>>
How much are you likely to save? I'd look at that first and decide if it's worth it. Then look into the ins and outs. That's the way I'd do it.
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>> How much are you likely to save? I'd look at that first and decide if
>> it's worth it. Then look into the ins and outs. That's the way I'd do
>> it.
I'd fly or drive, thats the way I would do it
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>> I'd fly or drive, thats the way I would do it
So would anyone in their right mind.
But it's a one for the money, two for the show, three to get ready and go cat go but don't you, step on ma blue shoes...
I trust you've got the blue suède pampooties packed Rats? If not you'll have to go back for them. Not favourite of course...
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 7 Mar 16 at 19:35
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>> I'd fly or drive, thats the way I would do it
>>
Well so would I but rattle likes his long distance bus and train journeys for whatever reason. His chioce.
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I'd take train and bus over flying any day. Nothing is worse for me than being packed into a cigar tube and blasted through the sky.
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I like the train and enjoy it. I also like driving in Europe. Its not an either / or;
I think its best to try both, but there's no point doing something you don't want to do on your holiday just because everybody else thinks you should.
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Given Rats' available choice of wheels (Panda or Dad's i10 IIRC) then I'd do the train too. Then again I enjoy train travel anyway.
Went Eurostar to Paris and thence to Reims several years ago to collect my bike from the utterly useless Harley dealers there. Impressive pieces of kit those TGV's.
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I suppose I've been on a few too ( or make that 'far' too ) many passenger aircraft flights to find it much more than a bit of a bore to be honest. Especially in recent years it's no pleasure for sure with all the extra palaver at airports. It is though still the only relatively convenient way to move long distances.
I also drive a lot for work and in mainland UK anyway ( if you exclude north of Preston ) that too is mainly a drudge now.
But, once across the Channel and without any pressing agenda, driving can still be a pleasure.
I like making my own way to places and along with aircraft, I find trains and buses entirely depressing. It's probably a form of sociopathy but I just find the close proximity large numbers of other people quite intrusive.
In preference then, give me a comfortable car, an open road, my own timescale, my own music, my own choices and my own space.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 7 Mar 16 at 22:02
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The TGVs are very comfortable and spacious, not like UK commuter trains. I also have my own music via my HD25s :). I do agree that the schedules can be a limiting factor though. The worst thing about it is the connections hence this time limiting them as much as possible.
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I'm sure you'll have, and of course I wish you, a really good time Rats. It wouldn't do if we we all had the same preferences.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 7 Mar 16 at 22:13
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I did the trains on Inter Rail back in the late 70s. Excellent way to see the world !Never forget an overnight train from Rome to Venice....fantastic
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>> I did the trains on Inter Rail back in the late 70s. Excellent way to
>> see the world !Never forget an overnight train from Rome to Venice....fantastic
Its much better in daylight.
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"Its much better in daylight."
Especially if Rob's fantastic overnight train from Rome to Venice experience was a ladyboy.
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>> "Its much better in daylight."
>>
>> Especially if Rob's fantastic overnight train from Rome to Venice experience was a ladyboy.
Now that, has to be the most awesome thread drift ever
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>> Now that, has to be the most awesome thread drift ever
>>
But given the author of said drift, by no means unpredictable.
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I did that too Rob, in the summer between what we referred to as 5th and 6th form with a group of friends. I want to think there was some kind of cheap railcard thing which allowed us to travel for a month or so very cheaply. Used to get slow night trains to places to avoid paying for overnight accommodation. Got all over Germany, Austria, Italy and the old Yugoslavia that summer.
Don't think I'd want to do it now mind. What were those shelf things called? Sounded a bit like courgettes, couchettes was it?
One of my friends was lying on one with his head stuck out of the window for fresh air when someone was sick out of a window nearer the front of the train...
I genuinely thought I was going to stop breathing and pass out from laughter !
He didn't quite see it that way.
He was a museum curator last I heard.
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Well, I think it's very selfish of Ratto. What if my PC packs up whilst he's away ?
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>>
>> Well, I think it's very selfish of Ratto. What if my PC packs up whilst
>> he's away ?
Fly out there with it, you'll get there before he does
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I just find the
close proximity large numbers of other people quite intrusive. .......................
.....................my own space.>>
Spot on: people en masse are horrible.
Thread drift (if allowed).
Personal space - what is yours? (cm, m, km, inches, feet or yards)
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>> find the close proximity large numbers of other people quite intrusive.
In preference then, give me a comfortable car, an open road, my own timescale, my own music, my own choices and my own space.<<
My feelings exactly too.
Pat
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>> In preference then, give me a comfortable car, an open road, my own timescale,
>> my own music, my own choices and my own space.<<
>>
>> My feelings exactly too.
Swap comfortable car for similar motorbike and that's me too. As said above I do enjoy train travel, particularly if the journey gives scope for seeing things not easily visible from the road, but on a bike you do see more of what's around you than you would in a car.
I don't particularly enjoy carrying passengers or being one if I'm honest, particularly in the lorry.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Mar 16 at 10:16
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>>
>> Swap comfortable car for similar motorbike and that's me too.
You can say many things about bikes, but putting their comfort level on par with a car is not one of them.
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The trouble with that philosophy if taken literally is that without public transport you can't get out of the U.K. and even if you do take you car abroad you are still confined to Europe.
Sometimes it's worth a bit of inconvenience in an airport to get to somewhere different.
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>>The trouble with that philosophy if taken literally is that without public transport you can't get out of the U.K.
Not true. Private jet. Private yacht. Or for those of more modest means, the Eurotunnel.
I loathe flying. By which I mean, the flying is fine; it's the experience that's ghastly (getting to the airport on time; hanging around for ages; security; people). Foreign trains are lovely - particularly the Spanish where you have so much legroom you could have a couple of migrants under your feet in comfort if you so desired.
Of course, taking the tube twice a day makes one somewhat immune to the experience of other people.
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The Spanish AVE trains are amazing although their high speed stations can be annoying with all the security screening. Barcelona Sants is my least favourite train station any where I have been to in the world. Just a horrible 1970's dump that feels like you're in an airport. I try and avoid it and use Girona instead depending on where I am.
I have used all methods to get out of the UK, and to me by far the least stressful is the private coach tour companies via the ferry. The last few times I've done it they haven't even asked to see my passport at Dover, the hotel in Spain being the first time I need to show it!
Eurostar is stressful but from the London side St Pancras is a lovely station to be in, unlike Gare Du Nord which is hell. The station is far too small for the amount of passengers it has to cope with.
I've also gone out via a French coach from London with a company called Ouibus which is owned by SNCF, that was very comfortable and cost me £15 to get from London to Lyon but the driver didn't speak English making the Dover/Tunnel experience very confusing.
Ted that is always the problem when I go away, I take my laptop with me and sometimes have to the odd remote support job, I also have a mate who I can refer people to if they really can't wait for me to get back.
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>> all the security screening. Barcelona Sants is my least favourite train station any where I
>> have been to in the world. Just a horrible 1970's dump that feels like you're
>> in an airport. I try and avoid it and use Girona instead depending on where
>> I am.
You should try Hualamphong Station in Bangkok.
Stazione di Venezia Santa Lucia has to be the best terminus in the world, the building is crap but where else could you travel over the Ponte della Libertà and step down from the platform into a Vaporetto and cruise up the Grand Canal.
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I think you will find Eurotunnel is public transport and even a private jet means passing through an airport.
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I'm with Tricia........ I used to love getting out on the High Peak...just me and me butties / flask ! Motorcycling as well...best done alone sometimes....like sex.
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Worked it out now, my plan is now to skip a night in London and do another trip to London another time. I shall simply get the train to Paris from Manchester stopping off at London for a few hours to allow for any delays and get a decent meal. Then a night in Paris at a stupidly cheap Ibis before going direct to Barcelona the next day.
My train is around 10:00am from Paris so I will have a bit of time to enjoy an evening in Paris.
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If your evening in Paris fell on 21st June, you would enjoy it - it's "music night", Fête de la Musique, and there will be people singing and playing everywhere. I happened to be there about 20 years ago, and had a very pleasant walk between 11 and midnight from the Louvre to the Arc de Triomphe.
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Have a look at this, Rats: tinyurl.com/hkgjy3y
Seat61 covers everything I was going to suggest about the trip, except that AFAIK there's a Train Bleu bistro at platform level in Gare de Lyon as well as the (very famous) restaurant upstairs, which comes highly recommended...though I haven't made it there myself yet.
If you're out and about the night of your stopover in Paris, I can heartily recommend Le Petit Somellier opposite Gare Montparnasse. Close to Tour Montparnasse if you want a decent view of Paris by night without queuing for the Eiffel Tower too.
Definitely go for an upstairs seat on the TGV, in the direction of travel, for a decent view - the lower decks are too close to ground level to see much. You can usually modify your booking online to do this at no extra cost. You also have the option of a quiet car (no phones, earphones at low volume only, no kids) if you like.
Personally I'd buy the makings of a picnic at a decent neighbourhood traiteur or boulangerie before traveling. You'll have plenty time with a 10am start. Don't forget the beer or wine with it! I was caught on a TGV to Strasbourg once with no food except crisps available, and it'll be better than the pre-pack stuff you can get on the train. Having a beer upstairs in the cafe-bar car while you watch the countryside pass by at 180mph is worth it though :-)
Oh, and remember that if you've booked an e-ticket you have to bring a print copy with you - the ticket inspectors QR code scanners they use to check the tickets can't read from smartphone screens!
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Lyon or Marseille? - No FM2R
