Non-motoring > Scotch Independence	Auctions
Thread Author: No FM2R	Replies: 46

Sat 6 Feb 16 00:11   Scotch Independence - No FM2R

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 01:32   Scotch Independence - smokie

Shouldn't the title be Scottish? Otherwise i'ts just an unadulterated whisky. I do see the point however... Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 02:20   Scotch Independence - Lygonos

Who'da thunk commodity prices can go down as well as up? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 08:32   Scotch Independence - Cliff Pope

Why would the Scots ever have wanted to be ruled by an international oil-price fixing ring rather than by a democratic neighbour who gives them a subsidy? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 08:38   Scotch Independence - Old Navy

>> Why would the Scots >> Only a minority who feel a huge inferiority. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 08:34   Scotch Independence - Old Navy

Obviously not the people taken in by the SNPs fantasy land of milk and honey and wealth for all prediction. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 08:49   Scotch Independence - WillDeBeest

It's mostly true but the gloating tone is unpleasant. I'm as pleased as anyone that Scotland chose to stay in the UK, but that's done now; no need to rub their noses in it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 09:59   Scotch Independence - smokie

There was talk of a re-run of the vote before too long so I think it does no harm to keep it alive somewhat, and bring the context up to date. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 10:14   Scotch Independence - Bromptonaut

While the usual cautions about investments falling rather than rising and past performance being no guide etc did any reputable organisation predict less than $35/barrel and still dropping? Might be worth another article looking at effect on producer countries, particularly in the Middle East. How are those countries tackling a similar or larger fall in their national income? I they cut investment and spending on facilities, to detriment of their population, then result may be political unrest in an area that's already frighteningly unstable. If they try and borrow are their needs capable of being met without a crisis in the money markets? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 10:31   Scotch Independence - Old Navy

As I understand it Saudi Arabia is manipulating the oil price by flooding the market with oil in an attempt to bankrupt the competition of American shale oil. The don't seem to like the USA being an oil and gas exporter. I don't think the Saudies need to borrow from anyone. Other countries like the UK and indirectly Scotland will feel the low price though. I read somewhere that it costs $54 a barrel to extract oil from the North sea, that is not sustainable at current oil prices which is why the Scottish coast is littered with laid up oil rigs. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 10:40   Scotch Independence - Zero

>> As I understand it Saudi Arabia is manipulating the oil price by flooding the market >> with oil in an attempt to bankrupt the competition of American shale oil. Its a race to the bottom. Trouble is the shale companies are rapidly scaling up, which drives the cost down. One thing the Americans are very good at is rapidly exploiting any opportunity that comes their way, mostly because the are very good at rapidly dumping and disinvesting without any thought of the social and natural consequences left behind when they do. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:47   Scotch Independence - Robin O'Reliant

>>>> >> Might be worth another article looking at effect on producer countries, particularly in the Middle >> East. How are those countries tackling a similar or larger fall in their national income? >> I they cut investment and spending on facilities, to detriment of their population, then result >> may be political unrest in an area that's already frighteningly unstable. >> >> None of the Middle Eastern countries have the social & welfare commitments of Scotland, let alone those the SNP were promising. It makes little difference to a fair number of people in those countries whether their economy is in boom or bust, they see none of it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 12:00   Scotch Independence - Bromptonaut

>> None of the Middle Eastern countries have the social & welfare commitments of Scotland, let >> alone those the SNP were promising. It makes little difference to a fair number of >> people in those countries whether their economy is in boom or bust, they see none >> of it. I wasn't suggesting UK level provision but plenty of mid-east countries have free education, healthcare etc. If those services are constrained by a drop in oil income do you not think civil unrest is a possibility? I wasn't seeking to make a political point vis a vis Scotland but to point out that falling oil prices had an impact far beyond our own shores. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 12:15   Scotch Independence - Zero

>> I wasn't suggesting UK level provision but plenty of mid-east countries have free education, healthcare The point is they don't have populations of 60+ million all of who have access to them. V >> etc. If those services are constrained by a drop in oil income do you not >> think civil unrest is a possibility? Think you'll find there is plenty of civil unrest, high oil price or low. The high oil price helps fund security services to keep the unrest suppressed tho. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 10:26   Scotch Independence - Manatee

Bad form to gloat of course but had the vote and the oil price both gone the other way then we would be getting a master class in hubris from Eck and Nicola. Reply to this message | Report message       3

Sat 6 Feb 16 10:37   Scotch Independence - Zero

>> Bad form to gloat of course but had the vote and the oil price both >> gone the other way then we would be getting a master class in hubris from >> Eck and Nicola. Until the oil ran out of course. They kept saying "we can find more" Funny that, the oil companies who found it in the first place didn't agree with them. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 6 Feb 16 10:53   Scotch Independence - henry k

p.s. Iran plans to be back in the race to the bottom so Saudi will have a hard time waiting for a turnaround. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:05   Scotch Independence - Westpig

>> It's mostly true but the gloating tone is unpleasant. I'm as pleased as anyone that >> Scotland chose to stay in the UK, but that's done now; no need to rub >> their noses in it. >> Please see Manatee's post at 1026 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:11   Scotch Independence - R.P.

Wasn't there a theory that the USA was upscaling to bring prices down to wreck the Russian economy ? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:14   Scotch Independence - Zero

>> Wasn't there a theory that the USA was upscaling to bring prices down to wreck >> the Russian economy ? Thats a beneficial side effect, the main driver is the lure of greenbacks. (And the distaste of having to rely on r******s) Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:13   Scotch Independence - Runfer D'Hills

Please also see the results of the referendum. The majority didn't want independence so please have a care not to tar all with the same brush. Reply to this message | Report message       7

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:15   Scotch Independence - R.P.

Quite right. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:16   Scotch Independence - Zero

>> Please also see the results of the referendum. The majority didn't want independence so please >> have a care not to tar all with the same brush. If the oil runs out, the tar will disappear as well. All thats left is the brush worn on the front of the kilt. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:27   Scotch Independence - henry k

>> If the oil runs out, the tar will disappear as well. >>All thats left is the brush worn on the front of the kilt. >> so look after it ? www.bagpipejourney.com/articles/horsehair-sporran-cleaning.shtml Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:34   Scotch Independence - WillDeBeest

Please see Manatee's post... I did. So what? We should gloat now, just in case they might have gloated at us? It's unattractive in either direction. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:40   Scotch Independence - Old Navy

If you think Salmond and Sturgeon are insufferable now, imagine what hey would have been like if the referendum result had gone the other way. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:42   Scotch Independence - WillDeBeest

Yes, that's what Manatee said and WP parroted. I repeat: so what? Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 6 Feb 16 11:48   Scotch Independence - Old Navy

Go Polish your halo. :-) Reply to this message | Report message       3

Sat 6 Feb 16 13:13   Scotch Independence - Westpig

>> I did. So what? I see no reason why it isn't acceptable to point out to some posturing clown that their falsities have been proven wrong....particularly if you know what their actions would have been had the referendum gone the other way... ... and if you do so with a wry smile on your face, knowing the unpleasantness deployed prior to the referendum and the constant unpleasant doing down of your own country... that constantly pays more to them than is due.. ... then a bit of rubbing salt in the wound is fine by me...goose and gander and all that. Reply to this message | Report message       5

Sat 6 Feb 16 14:00   Scotch Independence - Cliff Pope

>> It's unattractive in either direction. >> Well I don't find Salmon and Sturgeon very attractive in either direction either, but they are both no-holds-barred politicians so must take the rough with the smooth. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sat 6 Feb 16 15:26   Scotch Independence - Roger.

It's about time we geared up for shale in the UK. It may not be so attractive financially as when oil was $100 a barrel, but it would be good to be more self sufficient in energy. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 15:41   Scotch Independence - Bromptonaut

>> It's about time we geared up for shale in the UK. It may not be >> so attractive financially as when oil was $100 a barrel, but it would be good >> to be more self sufficient in energy. You OK with that if the Bassetlaw field is being fracked under Roger Towers? Or proximate to your water supply? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 16:29   Scotch Independence - Zero

>> >> It's about time we geared up for shale in the UK. It may not >> be >> >> so attractive financially as when oil was $100 a barrel, but it would be >> good >> >> to be more self sufficient in energy. We havent got any shale oil. Surprisingly we do have a couple of onshore oil fields tho, complete with nodding donkeys. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 16:37   Scotch Independence - CGNorwich

We havent got any shale oil. We probably do have - that's what the exploration licensed have been granted for, shale gas and oil Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 16:41   Scotch Independence - CGNorwich

There you go. Looks like you are sitting on top of 4.4 billion barrels of the stuff. www.carbonbrief.org/carbon-briefing-uk-shale-oil-what-where-and-how-much Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 16:54   Scotch Independence - sooty123

>> There you go. Looks like you are sitting on top of 4.4 billion barrels of >> the stuff. >> >> www.carbonbrief.org/carbon-briefing-uk-shale-oil-what-where-and-how-much >> Sounds quite a lot, until you read the article. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 16:57   Scotch Independence - CGNorwich

Indeed but it's a lot more than none. The problems are of extraction, both economic and political. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 17:02   Scotch Independence - sooty123

>> Indeed but it's a lot more than none. The problems are of extraction, both economic >> and political. >> It's pretty close to none in the grand scheme of things. Because like you say alot of it we can't get to. Although even if we could it's not really that much a few years worth at most. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 17:10   Scotch Independence - CGNorwich

Yes the oil reserves are comparatively small. It's the shale gas that will be worth exploiting. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 17:05   Scotch Independence - Zero

>> Indeed but it's a lot more than none. The problems are of extraction, both economic >> and political. Its not much more than none, so little its economically unfeasible. ergo none. Gas however, is another ballgame Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 17:23   Scotch Independence - sooty123

www.carbonbrief.org/carbon-briefing-britains-shale-gas Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 16:40   Scotch Independence - sooty123

>> We havent got any shale oil. Surprisingly we do have a couple of onshore oil >> fields tho, complete with nodding donkeys. >> Wasn't there something about quite a bit in the Irish Sea? I seem to vaguely remember it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 6 Feb 16 16:31   Scotch Independence - Cliff Pope

>> >> You OK with that if the Bassetlaw field is being fracked under Roger Towers? >> >> Or proximate to your water supply? >> Giving landowners the mineral rights under their land would go a long way to making them happier. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 7 Feb 16 11:44   Scotch Independence - Robin O'Reliant

Oh dear, Alex - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12144745/Alex-Salmonds-hypocrisy-of-using-firm-to-save-tax.html Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 7 Feb 16 11:54   Scotch Independence - Lygonos

It makes good copy for the Telegraph, which has been flogging the anti-SNP message quite hard. Ultimately it's what most self-employed people do if they earn a decent income, and he still gives a rather large chunk of his income to charity as mentioned near the end of the article, including £42,500pa he gets as pension for having been First Minister. Unlike a previous article states from... guess where: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9254965/Alex-Salmond-refuses-to-give-up-gold-plated-pension-like-Cameron-and-Brown.html Politician? Hypocrisy? Not exactly oxymoronic - he's far from the worst though. Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 7 Feb 16 at 11:58 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 7 Feb 16 14:21   Scotch Independence - No FM2R

www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-35512217 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 7 Feb 16 15:11   Scotch Independence - Old Navy

Lots being laid up, there are some near me in the Forth estury. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34570232 Reply to this message | Report message