| Non-motoring > Zika | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Armel Coussine | Replies: 34 |
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New Thu 28 Jan 16 13:21
Zika - Armel Coussine
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Wherever it comes from, this horrible virus causes microcephalus if present in the mother when the baby is in utero. Like the malaria parasite it is carried by mosquitoes. As with malaria, an effective treatment is eliminating the vector: spraying all stagnant water with paraffin laced with insecticide, which suffocates and poisons mosquito larvae floating just under the surface. That would do the trick over a period... but treating all the stagnant puddles in say the Congo would be a tallish order. So zika looks like being with us for some time at least. Nasty. |
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New Thu 28 Jan 16 14:10
Zika - BrianByPass
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>> So zika looks like being with us >> for some time at least. Nasty. >> It's been around the Central/East-Africa belt for decades apparently. The following is what I read on the Guardian in response to some questions. I don't know the accuracy or otherwise of the replies though: 1. Do people in other countries where Zika has been known to exist for decades have an immunity to Zika? Unknown, but probably, at least to some degree. The speed of spread in countries where Zika is a newly-introduced infection, such as Brazil, has been very rapid - one reason it's spreading so quickly is likely to be that the vast majority of people don't have any immunity to it, having never encountered it before. Conversely, outbreaks in countries where it is well established are less extensive. There are also (at least) two strains of Zika, the African and Asian; whether infection with one strain would offer any protection against the other strain isn't yet known. There isn't a lot of data on Zika as until recently - at least until the Yap Island outbreak in 2007 - it wasn't thought to be a significant cause of human illness. 4. Did Zika when it first migrated to new countries cause anything similar to microcephaly in those newly infected regions? No. The microcephaly is new. There is evidence from the French Polynesia outbreak, and elsewhere, of an increase in cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome, a form of paralysis (which is also on the increase in areas of Brazil with concurrent Zika infection). It's possible the cases of microcephaly are a relatively rare complication, and have only been noticed as the number of cases of Zika infection has risen to the large numbers seen in the Brazil outbreak; alternatively, there may be other factors at work, such as previous infection with Dengue virus, or some other factor. The link between Zika and microcephaly hasn't been conclusively established yet, but the huge rises in Zika cases and microcephaly in the same time frame in Brazil, coupled with the detection of Zika RNA in a (very small number) of the affected infants, is highly suggestive of a link. 5. If not, is there some special local peculiarity that is causing the microcephaly incidence in Brazil, for example - has the virus mutated to a different form from that found currently in Africa and Asia? Possibly, and no, in that order. The virus in Brazil seems to be a fairly standard Asian strain, with nothing particularly novel about it as far as I know. Whether there are external factors that have caused the increase in microcephaly cases in Brazil is not yet known, but is obviously under some intensive investigation at the moment. |
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New Thu 28 Jan 16 14:59
Zika - Mike Hannon
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| DDT had its good points, eh? |
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New Fri 29 Jan 16 18:03
Zika - Armel Coussine
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>> DDT had its good points, eh? It was sprayed around our house in Ceylon every month or two I seem to remember. Wasn't used on all the water butts though. There was one out the back behind a screen where the servants used to bathe. They were indulgent but we were told firmly that they were entitled to privacy and should be left alone. Children have a natural affinity for drains and I believe I was slightly, but only slightly, poisoned by DDT as a child. Amazing the stuff one gets away with. |
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New Fri 29 Jan 16 18:49
Zika - R.P.
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| Is this Zika thing yet another scary media thing....you know "Bird Flu, Ebola,Zika yakkity yak.." ? |
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New Fri 29 Jan 16 19:00
Zika - Armel Coussine
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You wouldn't want to get any one of them Rob. Most people here aren't at much risk. But there's always some. |
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New Fri 29 Jan 16 19:03
Zika - No FM2R
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No, its not. Its nasty. If you are pregnant, soon to be pregnant or would like to be pregnant then don't go to Brazil. Nothing is 100% *proven* at this time, but its so likely that the things are connected that I wouldn't take the risk. Bit dodgy with the Olympics coming up. We don't have that strain of mosquito in Chile and as yet non-mosquito transmission is unproven and remains unlikely. |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 15:22
Zika - Armel Coussine
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>> We don't have that strain of mosquito in Chile and as yet non-mosquito transmission is unproven Typically alarmist piece in today's comic alleged that Zika virus can now be carried by ordinary majority-population mosquitoes, not just some special minority anopheles something-or-other. So immunity can't be guaranteed, in a nutshell. Mosquitoes are enthusiastic long-haul jet travellers and Zika carriers are here already. We're doomed, or one or two of us are anyway. Don't forget to brush your teeth and gargle. :o} |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 15:29
Zika - No FM2R
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| Give me a bit more of a clue so I can find the article please AC. |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 15:40
Zika - Armel Coussine
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The suggestion is in the third para from the end of the main story on p7. Slightly ambiguous, but that's the comics for you. Donna Bowater sends a lot of copy electronically from Recife, and busy subs tack the story together in the office. It's all very Heath Robinson but professional and slick, sort of. Hard work but sort of fun for a while. |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 15:50
Zika - No FM2R
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This bit? "Researchers are now trying to discover whether Zika is spreading so rapidly because it can be transmitted by the common mosquito as well as the tropical variety, Aedes aegypti. " I do hope it isn't more than just the one variety of mosquito. That really could be quite bad. Let's remember, the children are born disabled. This is going to be a sadness and a problem for generations. And they do need to get to the bottom of this before the Olympics. Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 30 Jan 16 at 15:53
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 18:01
Zika - Armel Coussine
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>> Zika is spreading so rapidly because it can be transmitted by the common mosquito as well as the tropical variety, Aedes aegypti. " >> I do hope it isn't more than just the one variety of mosquito. That really could be quite bad Surely the common mosquito is the one found most commonly, in enormous numbers? Just one variety perhaps, but the variety you really don't want because it's everywhere. That's why zika is spreading rapidly and has reached our shores. |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 18:12
Zika - CGNorwich
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That's why zika >> is spreading rapidly and has reached our shores. >> >> A tad alarmist AC. It hasn't reached our shores nor will it unless you include travellers returning to our shores from foreign climes and they do not impose a risk to others. Lots of other diseases to worry about without finding new ones! |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 18:18
Zika - Armel Coussine
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I did say somewhere that the risk is minimal and that we are not under any threat from zika here. The one or two infected individuals will have been sequestered and sent to the right place very promptly. It has reached our shores, but only just. We have world-class institutions and medics here, experienced in fielding these threats. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 30 Jan 16 at 18:20
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 18:48
Zika - No FM2R
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>and they do not impose a risk to others. And that would be why the strain of mosquito is important... A mosquito bites and infects a previously uninfected person. If a previously uninfected mosquito then bites that person it can become infected and thus infect others. So- 1) Brazilian mosquito -> 2) bites person in Brazil -> 3) who travels to England -> 4) and gets bitten by English mosquito -> 5) which becomes infected and -> 6) bites and infects other people in England etc. However, at the moment the belief is that step 5) would fail since the English mosquito is immune. However, if it were not..... |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 19:08
Zika - Armel Coussine
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>> However, at the moment the belief is that step 5) would fail since the English mosquito is immune Mosquitoes are immune to the parasites and viruses they may carry in their saliva. It's the people they bite who need to be immune FMR. |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 20:54
Zika - No FM2R
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| No, AC. Whilst "immune" may not be the correct word, th epoint is that it is absolutely critical that other strains of mosquito are not able to carry the virus. No humans are "immune" so the only protection at this time is that they are not exposed. |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:48
Zika - BrianByPass
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I have lived in for some years, and been bitten by mosquitoes, in some of the countries that are known to have had the Zika virus. See map graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2016/01/28/zika-range/01ef0d66a6c87eafe44e80ad348f3cf5082a1e8d/zika-spread-Artboard_3.png I never suffered from dengue, chikungunya or yellow fever although people in the groups I was with have had one or more of those infections - which are said to be related to Zika. Dengue is present in Florida. India is one of the countries on the list and the Indian press is reporting that passive immunity to Zika exists or existed in India. "The only time any trace of the virus was recorded in India was in 1952-53. A study titled ‘Neutralising antibodies against certain viruses in the sera of the residents of India’, published in a journal called The Journal of Immunology, recorded among other viruses, antibodies to the Zika virus. The study, which went to 38 localities in six states in India, tested 15 vector borne viruses. “Significant numbers of the sera neutralised Zika,†noted the study authored by “KC Smithburn of the Rockefeller Foundation in New York, JA Karr, director, virus research centre in Poona and PB Gatne, Medical offer, Bombay State India.†Dr T Mourya, director, National Institute of Virology, Pune, said in an email response, “There have been no outbreaks in India but passive immunity has been traced in Indian samples in the past. The last Indian study on this was conducted between 1952-53. So far, other than this, there are no reports on this virus in India.†Passive immunity refers to the process of acquiring immunity against a foreign body-antigen without actual exposure to the virus. To actively acquire immunity, the body’s immune system has to be affected by the virus and fight it off. Passive immunity can be acquired naturally, from the mother during fetal development or from breast milk, or artificially through vaccines. For Indians who acquired immunity against Zika, despite the virus never having been isolated, the process of acquiring passive immunity is likely to have been a more complicated process. The Zika virus has been widely described in the scientific community as a “cousin†of India’s endemic dengue virus. Dengue has by far been accepted as the more virulent, stronger cousin of zika. Dengue, zika and chikungunya are spread through a common vector, the Aedes aegypti mosquito. To put it simply, exposure to similar viruses is likely to have resulted in the formation of antibodies which are similar to that of the Zika virus. Dr Lalit Dar, professor of microbiology in AIIMS, describes this as “cross reactive immunity†to the virus. “When the proteins of the virus are similar, so are the antibodies that develop against them. Since Indians are exposed to all four strains of dengue circulating in the atmosphere since birth, the body develops antibodies against them.Since Zika virus is similar in composition, these antibodies may be cross reactive with the Zika virus,†Dar said. The US-based CDC also identifies India as one of the countries where antibodies to Zika virus have been identified only in healthy people. In other words, though people in India have never actually fallen sick from the Zika virus, studies have shown some people have developed immunity to the virus. “These studies cannot determine where the people were infected or if they were infected with Zika virus because the antibodies may have resulted from infections with other closely related viruses, such as dengue,†the CDC has stated in its report on the Zika virus published in the first week of January." Last edited by: BrianByPass on Sat 30 Jan 16 at 21:50
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New Sun 31 Jan 16 14:14
Zika - Armel Coussine
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>> th epoint is that it is absolutely critical that other strains of mosquito are not able to carry the virus. No humans are "immune" so the only protection at this time is that they are not exposed. I must have expressed myself badly FMR. I didn't say any humans were immune, I said they needed to be. If the 'common mosquito' can now carry zika, and the common mosquito is really common, then as you say the only sure defence is to avoid being bitten by any mosquitoes. Which is what I thought I said. |
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New Sat 30 Jan 16 19:09
Zika - CGNorwich
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Lots of ifs in the hypothesis. The fast is that that the mosquito that is the vector for Zika virus does not survive in the UK. If it did we would have a lot more than Zika to worry about. Yellow fever, malaria,dengue fever, West Nile virus amongst other others all transmitted by tropical mosquitos. |
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New Fri 29 Jan 16 19:03
Zika - sooty123
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>> Is this Zika thing yet another scary media thing....you know "Bird Flu, Ebola,Zika yakkity yak.." >> ? >> In fairness they did kill a fair number of people. Not here, but best not too relaxed about them. |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 09:55
Zika - Mapmaker
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>> Wherever it comes from, this horrible virus causes microcephalus if present in the mother when >> the baby is in utero. Or maybe not. www.techtimes.com/articles/133548/20160214/monsanto-larvicide-not-zika-virus-true-cause-of-brazils-microcephaly-outbreak-doctors.htm |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 10:07
Zika - Bromptonaut
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>> www.techtimes.com/articles/133548/20160214/monsanto-larvicide-not-zika-virus-true-cause-of-brazils-microcephaly-outbreak-doctors.htm Thanks for that link MM - very interesting. Heard more than one scientist interviewed who went out of their way to explain that while there was an (apparent) correlation between Zika and the malformation the causal link was not demonstrated. I wonder if the suspicion is more widespread than the group mentioned in your link? |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 10:12
Zika - CGNorwich
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| www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-35584953 |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 14:55
Zika - Mapmaker
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-35584953 There's a Zika epidemic in Brazil currently. It would be a surprise if the infants were born without it. Doesn't mean that Zika caused the abnormality. Indeed, given that the damage must be done early on in pregnancy, it would quite possibly be a surprise if there were any remnants of Zika by the time of birth. |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 10:53
Zika - BrianByPass
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There are 25,000 cases of microcephaly in the US every year. Brazil reported just 147 cases of microcephaly in 2014, whereas for 2015 it has about 460 confirmed cases. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said there is no direct link yet between the virus and the birth defect. US CDC says: The causes of microcephaly in most babies are unknown. Some babies have microcephaly because of changes in their genes. Other causes of microcephaly, including severe microcephaly, can include the following exposures during pregnancy: - Certain infections during pregnancy, such as rubella, toxoplasmosis, or cytomegalovirus - Severe malnutrition, meaning a lack of nutrients or not getting enough food - Exposure to harmful substances, such as alcohol, certain drugs, or toxic chemicals - Interruption of the blood supply to the baby’s brain during development |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 14:25
Zika - Armel Coussine
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>> The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said there is no direct link yet between the virus and the birth defect. But a story in today's comic seems to suggest that there is one. |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 16:07
Zika - Manatee
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>> >> The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said there is no direct >> link yet between the virus and the birth defect. Meaning they have found no evidence. The UK government said that about BSE affecting yumans for quite a long time. |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 17:21
Zika - BrianByPass
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>> The UK government said that about BSE affecting yumans >> for quite a long time. >> >> Note the key word used by CDC scientists: "yet" That is a short form for saying this: "Correlation and Causation Much of scientific evidence is based upon a correlation of variables – they tend to occur together. Scientists are careful to point out that correlation does not necessarily mean causation. The assumption that A causes B simply because A correlates with B is a logical fallacy – it is not a legitimate form of argument. However, sometimes people commit the opposite fallacy – dismissing correlation entirely, as if it does not imply causation. This would dismiss a large swath of important scientific evidence." Bear in mind the damage done by some "scientific" papers such as paper published in The Lancet by Dr Wakefield who claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism or bowel disease. |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 17:34
Zika - Manatee
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>> Bear in mind the damage done by some "scientific" papers such as paper published in >> The Lancet by Dr Wakefield who claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism >> or bowel disease. Fair point. Just as dangerous for an authoritative source to say (which is how it will be read) that there is no risk when investigations are underway. MMR was a slightly different case since the consequences of avoiding the vaccine were potentially fatal. Avoiding Zeka virus if you can seems pretty failsafe by comparison. |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 17:36
Zika - Armel Coussine
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Herself picked up on that Wakefield panic and vetoed MMR for the middle daughter (who promptly got all three diseases in succession and gave us a real scare). I got measles and German measles in succession as a small child, unfortunately in the wrong order. Diphtheria was a real killer when I was small. Lost my brother to it, a year younger than me and a popular character, not studious and boring like me. There's no real protection against bad viruses except sound constitution and proper nursing and medical care. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 16 Feb 16 at 17:39
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 17:48
Zika - Armel Coussine
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>> There's no real protection against bad viruses except sound constitution and proper nursing and medical care. And I should have added, a ration of 'luck', Someone Up There being on your side sort of thing. 'The planet drifts to random insect doom'.... but not yet! Not yet! |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 17:48
Zika - WillDeBeest
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...and, in many cases, immunization! The Wakefield / JABS-induced MMR panic began in around 2000, AC. Beestling Major (b 2001) got his MMR on schedule in 2002. Your middle daughter wasn't a toddler then, was she? |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 18:37
Zika - Armel Coussine
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I was completely wrong anyway. The thing that was vetoed, back in the early seventies, was the whooping cough vaccine that came with the diphtheria vaccine. What the poor daughter got was whooping cough, and very nasty it was. (Had it myself at some point and it was no joke). There had been a scare about these vaccines causing brain damage. |
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New Tue 16 Feb 16 18:45
Zika - Manatee
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Management innocently asked the GP for the facts as they were known on the whooping cough vaccine scare. The doctor had already said our daughter (b.1981) should have it and she (the doctor) abruptly told my wife that if she wasn't going to take her advice she should find another doctor. Wife was so taken aback that she left and never went back. Daughter did not have the jab, and did get whooping cough although she pretty much shrugged it off. She has already had measles at three months (before jab age) and has always been pretty tough. Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 16 Feb 16 at 18:46
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