Article (link below) says that most people don't seem to be very interested in the "smart home" concept, to varying degrees, yet manufacturers (unsurprisingly) are falling over themselves to create the market.
So, if you have to pick one, which would it be?
1) You're a smart home enthusiast and think it's the future
2) You think it's interesting and have some stuff already (such as?)
3) You know what it seems to be all about but it's a load of old hooey going nowhere (and that's my vote)
4) What's a smart home?
Link is to the Mirror.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/tweeting-fridges-web-controlled-kettles-7103209
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Haven't read the article in detail but no doubt covers the modern high tech solutions to problems that don't really exist. I can see why people shun it. Why does your kettle need a computer chip?
More expense, more to go wrong and it will create a new generation of stupid who can't boil and egg without a Bluetooth enabled smart Wi-Fi egg cup.
It's a bit like the latest phones - they get smarter but sometimes the users get dumber.
I am not anti technology, it has its place but you're kinda stuffed if there's a power cut.
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How many people can still start a fire by rubbing two sticks together? Not many I'd bet, but I doubt the Flintstones saw the invention of the pocket lighter as progress!!
It'll always be a slow uptake to full "smartness", not least as it's hard to retrofit full smartness to a home without extensive change, but I bet most homes these days have a remote controlled device (TV or similar), which would have been thought to be "only for the lazy" a generation or so back.
Mood lighting, remote control heating and AC, I fancy them all. I was looking at a project some bloke did where he scanned food packets ad he emptied them so they automatically got added to his shopping list. Not a bad idea but too clumsy at the moment.
The generation who can't navigate, park or drive without assistance is in the making. We will slowly become part of it.
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I've not even got a smart phone let alone a smart home [especially wiv two dogs under one year olde]
My Panasonic plasma TV [ass-embled in the cheque republic] is supposed 2b smart, but isn't.
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Isn't this the kind of thing which people were wont to wonder at and admire when portrayed in futuristic films in the late 20th century, but now it's coming to pass I expect there will be a lot of grumbling and don't-see-the-pointism from the usual quarters. Same people who wanted to live the life of The Jetsons when they saw them at the Saturday morning pictures I shouldn't wonder.
My nippers are at home with the MiL today, I wouldn't be too put out if they quaffed all the milk and the fridge texted me to tell me about it, I could pick some up on the way home for my evening cup of Redbush tea. The nippers and the MiL are unlikely to be quite so considerate.
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Smart home? Its just a practical and natural evolution. Whats not to like?
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One thing I'm gonna need is a far better wireless router. My BT hunk of junk drops connections like a Scottish goalkeeper and needs rebooting regularly. Range is poor too. (I will get around to buying a new improved one.)
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what bt hunk of junk do you have?
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Some old, black, concave piece of shi-ite or other. About 6 years old. Always been rubbish, but it's more noticeably rubbish now that more things want to connect to it (didn't have smartphones 6 years ago, older children now getting laptops, tablets etc, internet radio in the kitchen for the MiL to listen to Radio Belgrade, all that jazz). House is very well built with all internal walls being concrete block, not flimsy partitions, which doesn't help I shouldn't wonder.
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Well if you are still on BT, kick up a fuss and get them to send you a newer Home Hub 4 or 5
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I am and they want me to pay for one. I think I'd prefer to get a proper one anyway when I get round to it.
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What I would like is central locking for houses.
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Already got a smart home.
Cooker's on LPG, two wood-burners, generator in the garage. So when the National Grid fails, cos they've banned coal-fired, the nukes ain't built, it's cloudy and there's not a breath of wind, I can cook, keep meself warm, dry me clothes and by and large carry on as normal.
Don't need a computer to tell me we've run out of milk; I'm married.
Smart, eh? ;-)
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>>
>> Smart, eh? ;-)
Not really, come the breakdown in society we all now know where to raid.
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>> come the breakdown in society
Heh heh... are you expecting one Zero?
I suppose most imaginative people have had fantasies or nightmares about post-apocalyptic life.
In those dreams, do people identify themselves as predators or victims (for want of a better term)? Grim either way of course.
Let's talk about fluffy kittens instead, eh? And meanwhile try to, er, keep it on the island so to speak.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 4 Jan 16 at 16:27
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>>........ come the breakdown in society we all now know where to raid.
>>
Or become a prepper ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism
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>> Or become a prepper ?
The thing about America is that it was a wild frontier until very recently, and a lot of Americans have lived rather like those preppers, with a similar but much more justified paranoia about Indians and indeed all strangers, until the last couple of decades. Some still do perhaps.
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Alanovic, I have a BT Home Hub 4 T2RN if that's any later than yours and you're welcome to it as it will only end up in the bin.
I can pop it in the post for you if you want to email me your address.
Pat
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>> Alanovic, I have a BT Home Hub 4 T2RN if that's any later than yours
>> and you're welcome to it as it will only end up in the bin.
>>
>> I can pop it in the post for you if you want to email me
>> your address.
Thank you Pat, that's enormously generous of you. I will email you shortly.
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Does the HH4 work with Infinity? I'm having similar problems to Vić, and a cursory investigation suggests the HH4 is for copper broadband, while fibre requires an HH5.
Anyone here persuaded BT to throw in a free HH5? Our HH3 dates from when we moved to Infinity in 2011, since when our device count has gone from 7 to 18, and it struggles for throughput - not just in the wireless domain either. When I've reported problems to Sonos's (excellent) technical support problem, they've commented in passing that the HH3 is not a router they recommend.
Is the HH5 significantly more capable? Would be interested to hear from someone who's had both.
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>> Does the HH4 work with Infinity? I'm having similar problems to Vić, and a cursory
>> investigation suggests the HH4 is for copper broadband, while fibre requires an HH5.
correct
>> Is the HH5 significantly more capable? Would be interested to hear from someone who's had
>> both.
Me had both HH4 & HH5 and the answer is no discernible difference. At all.
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Is either an improvement on the 3?
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After 2 rounds of moaning at BT we've just got a HH5 as (a free) replacement for a HH3. So far so good, devices don't constantly disconnect at least, and it does away with the extra modem box.
AKA
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Eh? I have BT Infinity. Says so on the bill. I am using an HH3 I think.
EDIT: No, mine's a HH2 - just did a google image search. Definitely a 2 not a 3. Yet I pay for Infinity. Either Infinity can come via copper or a HH2 (plus white modem thing) can work with fibre.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 5 Jan 16 at 11:01
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The kit's been in place for four years and is mostly out of sight but I think we still have a separate white fibre box with our HH3. A BT blokey had to make a special visit to install it.
As I understand it, the 4 and 5 have the 'modem' component integrated, so you need the appropriate one for your delivery medium.
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>>Me had both HH4 & HH5 and the answer is no discernible difference. At all. <<
With Infinity I had multiple HH4s and associated modems and it took about 3 swaps and visits until the drop outs reduced to a 'just' acceptable level. Not sure whether it was replacement hardware or some service tweaking - there were stories about compatibilty issues between manufacturer modems and DSLAM modems. At one point I was thinking of reverting back to the old ADSL!
Subsequently I have obtained a HH5 which has been absolutely rock solid on the line side, and provides better in house wifi (inc 5Gig). I do however run an additional AP using an old router over mains ethernet. This provides better kitchen and patio cover.
To provide good 'mains etherne't it did require a a reconfiguration of consumer units to ensure the 2 separate rings were on the same consumer unit.
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It's just been collected by the postie and should be with you tomorrow.
That's one of the benefits of living in the sticks:)
Pat
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Thanks Pat, but I'm now wondering if it will "plug and play" in my house. Like I say, I've got Infinity but a HH2. Confused by this thread now.
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Reading that, a 4 is a better plug-and-play replacement for a 2 or 3 than a 5 would be, because it can use the Openreach modem that is already in place and configured. We had a 2 before but got the 3 as part of the Infinity package. It seems seriously underpowered now, though.
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Yes, thanks. Here's my existing package according to the "My BT" bit on the BT website:
"It looks like you’ve already got BT Infinity, but you can still upgrade your speed or usage limit
FIBRE BROADBAND
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
You could get
74Mb-80Mb
Estimated download speed range*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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You currently get
74Mb-80Mb
Estimated download speed range*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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65Mb
Minimum guaranteed speed* "
So I'm already getting max Fibre broadband speed through a HH2. Which the BT Help page you linked to says isn't possible. I think I need to call them to check I'm not paying for Infinity and getting something lower down the scale.
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What do you get if you measure it?
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A good question, one which I shall answer when I get back to Southfork-on-Thames tonight. If the butler doesn't answer his Vertu first.
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If you have a HH2 then you also have the white Huawei VDSL modem that plugs into the HH2. The HH2 is configured to use PPoE. The HH4 and HH5 do away with the need for the separate VDSL modem.
With the VDSL modem, it is possible to plug a computer straight into it and configure the computer to use PPoE.
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That contradicts BT's own help page, as linked to by NoF. The page states the HH2 isn't compatible with Infinity at all, and the HH4 needs an additional Open reach modem to work with Infinity.
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The 4 is what you get if you buy a new copper broadband package from BT; the 5 (judging from Z's experience of both) is the same thing with the Openreach modem built in, and is what you get as a new Infinity customer today.
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Ah, I think I've cracked it. My current router is a "BT Infinity" hub, not a Home Hub 2. see below from BT website:
"Can I use any Hub or router with BT Infinity?
No, the Hub needs to be specially designed to work with BT Infinity so you can only use the BT Home Hub 5, Hub 4, Hub 3 or the earlier BT Infinity Hub.
BT Home Hub 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0 do not support BT Infinity. If you're upgrading to BT Infinity and you have one of these Hubs, we'll give you a new Hub with your order.
The Hub 5, Hub 4 and Hub 3 will also work with normal (ADSL) broadband. So if you later move to an area that doesn't have BT Infinity, you'll still be able to use it."
I expect I'll have to plug Pat's HH4 into my Openreach modem.
Thanks all.
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>> "Can I use any Hub or router with BT Infinity?
Yes you can and I do. I just had to configure the PPPoE setup to logon to the BT Infinity service. Note I have the separate Huawei VDSL modem. I've had BT Infinity since May 2010.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 5 Jan 16 at 21:44
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Back in 1965 we bought a (then) upmarket gas fired "Rangette" cooker.
We paid extra for a thermostatic gas ring that was billiant.
The flame size was first set and then, on the same control knob the thermostatic setting was selected. For example, a pan of milk could be left unattended and it would stay hot at just below boil over point.
The cooker was converted to natural gas until some smart ass from the gas board wrecked it.
There was a gas main problem and they had to purge all the pipes. There was a minor leak and clever clogs thought he knew the solution but finished up messing it up and then condemed it!!!
Every person that I have asked about such a feature started by saying there is and never has been such a feature until I put them right.
So progress since 1965, in this case backwards.
To my surprise one such cooker was on Ebay for £80. That was more than we paid for it!.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-World-Rangette-Vintage-Retro-Gas-Cooker-1940-60S-/251833128655
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When I buy a house, I expect it to last decades if not centuries.
If you have a SMART house and anything breaks after 10 years, there will be no spares.. You will have to change the SMART bits.
Think I exaggerate? Can you buy electronic spares for a 15 year old boiler, and if so, find someone to fit them?
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>> When I buy a house, I expect it to last decades if not centuries.
>>
>> If you have a SMART house and anything breaks after 10 years, there will be
>> no spares.. You will have to change the SMART bits.
>>
>> Think I exaggerate? Can you buy electronic spares for a 15 year old boiler, and
>> if so, find someone to fit them?
Non problem, non smart stuff in your house doesn't last 15 years either.
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...the main problem I have is that my idea of "smart" is often very different to that of Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc. (other invasive technology firms are available).
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Mon 4 Jan 16 at 19:06
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>> ...the main problem I have is that my idea of "smart" is often very different
>> to that of Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc. (other invasive technology firms are available).
As long as you know what you are doing, none of them need to know anything you dont want them to know.
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...which, of course, isn't at all in the context of what I was saying.
(Though the great majority of my personal data/usage is already obscured by various settings, etc. but it is time consuming to ensure that when only using the current connectivity - when the "internet of things" is upon us, I don't fancy permanently circulating around the house ensuring all the settings are correct every time an update is applied to a fridge, a boiler, a light-bulb, etc. ;-) )
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>> ...which, of course, isn't at all in the context of what I was saying.
Yes it is
>> (Though the great majority of my personal data/usage is already obscured by various settings, etc.
>> but it is time consuming to ensure that when only using the current connectivity -
>> when the "internet of things" is upon us, I don't fancy permanently circulating around the
>> house ensuring all the settings are correct every time an update is applied to a
>> fridge, a boiler, a light-bulb, etc. ;-) )
Because you will clearly have to be doing all those things if you wish to remain totally anonymous from "smart" providers. To be honest? in years to come you will have NO chance of being anonymous certainly not from HM gov at least.
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>> Yes it is
...as you wish - though I think I have a better idea of the context of what I was saying, which had little or nothing to do with anonymity, and all to do with desired function.
So.. in the context of the original post, I think your idea of "in context" is very different from mine ;-)
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>> >> Yes it is
>>
>> ...as you wish - though I think I have a better idea of the context
>> of what I was saying, which had little or nothing to do with anonymity, and
>> all to do with desired function.
Which of course is why you didn't throw in lines about invasive technology.
Oh you did!
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...as in:
tending to spread very quickly and undesirably or harmfully
...rather than:
tending to intrude on a person's thoughts or privacy
was my context ;-)
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>> ...as in:
>>
>> tending to spread very quickly and undesirably or harmfully
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>> ...rather than:
>>
>> tending to intrude on a person's thoughts or privacy
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>> was my context ;-)
>>
And that doesn't need to happen either if you don't want it to.
You are a tad paranoid this evening. I have some foil helmets I made for Dog some time ago if you want some.
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...I'm not paranoid, but that doesn't mean they're not out to get me......
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Paranoia is just the b****** child of fear and good sense.
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When I buy a house, I expect it to last decades if not centuries.
A house and a home are two different things. A home is - and always has been - a complex system of devices and processes requiring varying degrees of human management; the house is just the physical structure that keeps the rain off all this. Your house may be 200 years old but the home it is part of is vastly different now from when it was built.
Making the systems inside the home smarter will do nothing to change the longevity of the house itself, any more than the advent of the automatic washing machine and the dishwasher already has.
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I don't want smart tech in the house as much as I want the house to be efficient with low maintenance, low electricity, heating and water costs.
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...but I suspect you've got "smart" tech in your house, it is simply that of a previous era.
Most of us will have, for instance, central heating with a time-clock and possibly TRVs, which does quite a lot (and for me, probably sufficient) to keep the house reasonably-efficiently warm.
These are, however, simple, understandable, devices, and very local. They don't depend on dubious "standards" (often in reality non-public protocols) to interface (almost, but not quite) with other devices, and/or the "mothership", and aren't subject to someone else's idea of what I really want, and how their function and interface should be changed to now deliver me that undesired function. (Let alone arbitrarily and abruptly removing the main function that a given device was originally installed for :-( ).
There is only a smidgen of bitter cynicism in the above.
The prospects of getting universal-interworking aren't great, for all sorts of reasons, many of them rooted in the commercial interests of manufacturers/suppliers, and those of the various large tech companies.
Whilst on a smaller scale, to bring it back to a Motoring theme, this story:
www.cnet.com/uk/news/ford-toyota-qnx-smartdevicelink/
...illustrates at least some of that in the context of "smart" cars.
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Oh great, built in dashboard distractions. Who is driving the car while all this smart stuff is being used ?
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...Google would like it to be them.......
(Of course, they will then arbitrarily decide to remove the "Drive on the Left" option as it is under-used in their main markets, but will omit to inform you - it will simply be an automatic update applied overnight which will take effect as you set off for work next morning) ;-)
Bon Voyage!
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Wed 6 Jan 16 at 10:10
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Smart cars? You aint seen nothing yet. VW concept car announced today, and another pretty "smart" one actually due this year.
www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ces/12083993/Volkswagens-new-CEO-apologises-for-dieselgate-and-showcases-two-zero-emissions-cars.html
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 6 Jan 16 at 10:15
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...holy thread resurrection, Batman......
.....as predicted.....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35984185
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Some further info here - I like the concept of "Dead Man's Firmware" or DMF, for short.
tinyurl.com/htwej2c
I suppose that since USA is the home of Automatic Gas Guzzlers, equipped with TCs the abbreviation of DMF was uo for grabs.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Thu 7 Apr 16 at 19:07
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Smart homes, and do you want one? - TheManWithNoName
