Road fuels are 30%+ cheaper than they were a bit back and presumably similar drops apply to aviation, maritime and agricultural fuels.
So when do prices of "stuff we buy" start dropping as a result?
I guess they all chose to have one last "hose the punter" session up to Christmas, so maybe in the New Year..
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>> So when do prices of "stuff we buy" start dropping as a result?
You have to work out what percentage of the shelf price of "stuff" is transport, and then what part of the transport cost is fuel. Then you work out the percentage change in that. Its quite small.
Then look at how much good and services have gone up with inflation. Hmm they haven't, because there isn't any, some stuff has even fallen in price.......because............
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 07:28
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>> Road fuels are 30%+ cheaper than they were a bit back and presumably similar drops
>> apply to aviation, maritime and agricultural fuels.
The price of aviation kerosene and other fuels not subject to duty have fallen far more than road fuel as they're much more tightly geared to the crude price.
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...and Eon are telling me the v16 fixed tariff will be £390 dearer than this years v15 deal.
Pat
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>> ...and Eon are telling me the v16 fixed tariff will be £390 dearer than this
>> years v15 deal.
>>
>> Pat
Nothing to do with the price of gas or fuel, thats to do with lack of energy generating resource.
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And subsidies for renewables, such as solar panels on roofs. Just been cut down of course, but still exist.
Incidentally, £390 extra? My whole annual electricity bill is sub £600.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 08:14
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I would guess pat is a dual fuel tarrif which includes gas and leccy, so she will be paying about 1200 a year. Even so a 30% hike is massive, and unjustified- I'd be off ski to another supplier.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 08:29
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Good point. Oh, and of course there's also the subsidy for smart meters.
I see N Power have just been fined 26 million for poor customer service. Excellent. I wonder how they'll get that back. For their customers, coming to a bill near you soon.
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>> Good point. Oh, and of course there's also the subsidy for smart meters.
>>
>> I see N Power have just been fined 26 million for poor customer service. Excellent.
>> I wonder how they'll get that back. For their customers, coming to a bill near
>> you soon.
Don't get me on the subject of suppliers being "fined" by the government. It always struck me as the most stupidest way to punish them, but then I realised You are right its just the worse form of indirect taxation of the consumer going. They end up paying twice for the crime.
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Just looked it up. Broadly speaking they have 26 million customers, amazingly, so that's a pound each, paid.
What might be a better way? Fine the directors directly? Is that legal?
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>> What might be a better way? Fine the directors directly?
Yes
>> Is that legal?
I think it is, if its not, its easy to make it so.
Wont happen, even tho it would be infinitely more effective, because the fine would have to be proportional smaller, so less "income" for the government.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 08:41
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I know we whine about our high home energy costs, but the UK is the 9th most expensive for electricity, and the 13th for gas compared to the rest of Europe.
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It is Dual Fuel and £1200 is correct!
Pat
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The economy is a bit like a long balloon, squeeze it at one end and it bulges at the other.
Lower raw material prices and exchange rate gains ( especially v the € ) have certainly led to buying gains on products and services influenced by that. The effect at the other end of the balloon is of course that exporting goods and services to € zone countries is currently very challenging for British companies.
There is much media hype about economic recovery, and while that may be true in certain sectors, most retail turnover increase is being bought in the form of discount deals on ever thinning margins in the supply chain.
There will still be major business failures in 2016.
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>> There is much media hype about economic recovery, and while that may be true in
>> certain sectors, most retail turnover increase is being bought in the form of discount deals
>> on ever thinning margins in the supply chain.
>>
>> There will still be major business failures in 2016.
Not least because we are still in the fool's paradise of very low interest rates. Despite "austerity", public sector pay freezes etc many people have more disposable income than before the recession. When the mortgage payments go up, and firms have higher financing costs, the squeeze will be on.
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>> >> There will still be major business failures in 2016.
Of course there will, just as there are business failures in the boom times, but mostly business failures in the down times are because during the boon times, people think the normal basic finical "rules" of business and commerce are a thing of the past. Of course they aint. Even the biggest and most powerful get caught out (funnily enough they are usually called fred)
>> Not least because we are still in the fool's paradise of very low interest rates.
as long as stagflation does not set in (and no-one can understand why it hasn't) its ok for a fair while
>> Despite "austerity", public sector pay freezes etc many people have more disposable income than before
>> the recession.
Possibly, but people didn't feel well off, because they didn't feel secure. If that is the case, people dont spend.
When the mortgage payments go up, and firms have higher financing costs, the
>> squeeze will be on.
Mortgages are the real elephant in the room. if interest rates quickly get to 4, 5, 6% (with corresponding higher mortgage rates) blood will flow. If it happens gradually then its manageable.
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>> ...and Eon are telling me the v16 fixed tariff will be £390 dearer than this
>> years v15 deal.
>>
>> Pat
Sum Ting Wong unless there have been very recent hikes. Are you looking at unit costs x consumption + standing charges, or only at the proposed Direct Debit change? My DD goes up and down like a yo-yo, according to some unfathomable algorithm of Scottish Power's.
I just ignore it unless it's silly, then I change it to what I think is reasonable - SP don't seem to mind provided I don't owe them anything at the time.
Both my electricity and gas prices have only moved downwards for at least two years. I refixed at the start of October, November, and December on one year fixes that have either stayed flat or gone down - electricity seems to have bottomed out in the last three months but my gas has dropped over 10% since August, and 20% since March 2014.
I know it's different by region, but I am currently (hoho) paying
Gas - £0.2055 daily standing charge, £0.02674/unit
Elec - £0.2055 daily standing charge, £0.12721/ day unit, £0.5922 /night unit.
Not the cheapest either, but not far off.
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No it's not that Manatee, although it may well have been if they hadn't made it easy for us at Eon.
I had notification that this years fixed deal was ending and logged in to find the best deal they can offer to switch to.
That was the cheapest one.
It looks wrong to me too but as I have until Feb 1st to change it looks like I'll leave it until the New Year to decide what to do.
I ran it through a couple of comparison sites and there are cheaper about but they all seem to compare it with Eons standard tariff so I got a bit lost deciding whether there would be a saving or not and 'shelved it' for now!
I know there's one or two on here with Eon and no doubt they will post at some point:)
Pat
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I've just switched from Eon as they wanted to hike me from £130 a month to £170 when my existing tariff ran out (dual fuel). I managed to a get a good deal from British Gas which had limited availability through some group buy thing I was notified of from some email or other (can't remember the origin now, might have been Martin Wotsit, Money Saving bloke). I'm on £114 a month as a result.
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I was with EON on the cheapest tariff they could offer me.
Martin Lewis's moneysaving site had a promo on their comparator and offered me a cheaper tariff - quite a bit cheaper - and some cashback.
When it came though it was with (wait for it) EON. And about 30% cheaper.
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Said before I really don't understand the idea of monthly direct debits to these companies. It always seems much simpler to me to just wait until the bill comes in every three months and then pay them for what you've used. Always done that. Don't see the advantage of giving them some huge variable amount of money that you then have to reconcile annually or whatever to claim back. My way seems so much simpler. I know roughly what it's going to be (only electricity so never more than £150 a quarter tops) and put aside perhaps £30 to £40 a month ready.
What am I missing?
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Nothing. Your method suits you, mine suits me. *shrug*
My gas and elec consumption is pretty much the same every year, I tell the new company my estimated consumption based on previous year's real numbers and they divide by 12. Works seamlessly and I don't have to remember to pay a bill or have the (minimal) hassle of arranging any payments. I'm a very busy person, see. I was with Scottish Someone for a year or two, they tried to gouge me by upping the DD constantly, but I just called them and told them to put it back. I will never switch to them again. To give Eon credit, they don't do that and my account balance was always near enough zero at the end of every year.
Are you farming cannabis on alternate years or something? Why does your consumption vary wildly?
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>> Said before I really don't understand the idea of monthly direct debits to these companies.
>> ................
>> What am I missing?
Don't the energy companies charge more if you pay on that basis?
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No, they charge less for payment by DD. Then you keep and eye on them that they're not creeping it up unnecessarily.
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I should have added I pay them by quarterly direct debit, so I get the fiver a century off for doing that, don't have to do anything else tedious in order to pay them, but do have to remember to tell them the readings just before bill day. They send a mail about that though.
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>> I know there's one or two on here with Eon and no doubt they will
>> post at some point:)
>>
I am with E-On, but I am on the energy saver plan, not fixed.
If you want to know, easily, if you can save money its very simple. Log into your E-on account, then click on the "find our best deal for you" It will come back with the plans they have, but iportaqntly in small letter sing he top it will quote your actual consumption.
You take those figures, and you put them into u-switch, tell them to find the best deals (tick the "include the ones we can't switch you to" box) and bongo
Seems I can save 480 quid if I fix with some unknown company I have never heard of, however, clearly there are savings to be made, again, so its time for me to change.
And it really is that simple.
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I've done that Z, but if you look closely at that saving in the small print it says it can save you that amount on Eon's standard tariff.
Even when I put the tariff I'm on currently into the equation, the figures still don't tally.
Pat
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I've waffled before about why the comparisons never make full sense on the suppliers' own websites, the 'independent' ones not so bad, but I always end up looking up the unit costs, standing charges, and discounts and bunging them into a spreadsheet.
The artistic bit comes in when you are comparing a variable rate and one year, two year and three year fixes. I arbitrarily take the view that an extra year's fix is worth 5% on the price and pro rata- maybe more at the moment, when prices are historically low, and less when prices feel toppy.
I've just renewed the village hall's electricity contract - down 9% on what we have been paying on the expiring 3 year fix, and fixed this time for 2 years. I could have taken a one year fix at 14% less than our existing price, but I took the view that 9% better was good enough to lock in.
Commercial rates are a bit odd - small users end up paying more than householders would for the same amount, and many suppliers won't quote for our measly 3800 units a year.
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..I've done that Z........ the figures still don't tally.
Me neither, when comparing my E.ON 1 year fixed V14 with 4 switching quotes, For the same deal in each case I get uSwitch £589 saving, MoneySavingExpert £628 and Confused.com £620. These are all with fitrst:utility and reasonably close. But WhichSwitch gives a measly £200 with the same company.
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I thought the utility companies had been forced to make it easier for us to understand the quotes and ultimately to switch?
When I put my present tariff with Eon into the dropdown menu on the comparison sites, the figures it shows are nothing like I'm paying so how can I compare the saving with that?
Pat
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>> I thought the utility companies had been forced to make it easier for us to
>> understand the quotes and ultimately to switch?
No, they have to make your bill easier to understand, they have nothing to do with, not do they have to have anything to do with comparison sites, which are another commercial operation.
>> When I put my present tariff with Eon into the dropdown menu on the comparison
>> sites, the figures it shows are nothing like I'm paying so how can I compare
>> the saving with that?
I put mine in, and the comparison site is 30 quid out on what they think I am paying now with eon. (i am not switching unless the savings are substantial)
All you need to know is how much you are currently paying, (you do) what your KWH consumption is (you do) then the comparison sites are valid.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 18 Dec 15 at 18:34
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I want a tariff where there is no standing charge, even if the unit prices are higher. That's what we used to have. Then the Govt. poked its nose in and got rid of them.
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>> I want a tariff where there is no standing charge,
Its the bottom line that counts, not how its made up.
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Our bottom line is much lower than many. We are paying a lot more now the standing charges have gone.
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>> Our bottom line is much lower than many. We are paying a lot more now
>> the standing charges have gone.
you sure?
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>>I want a tariff where there is no standing charge, even if the unit prices are higher.
I believe Ebico offers that.
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Thanks. I shall have to take another look at the bills. I seem to recall they went up quite a bit.
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This month, Scottish Power's 1 year fix is unchanged at the above rates, yet its own estimate says the Jan 2017 fix would be £19 a year dearer than the Dec 2016 fix. I have no idea how they can arrive at that as the rates are the same and about 30% lower that the standard rates.
Anyway I have changed tariff for the fourth month in a row to roll the fix forward a month. It has increased my monthly DD slightly for no obvious reason but that doesn't matter to me, I'm only £6 in credit. I suspect that the DD payment is used in some way for the annual cost comparison, even though it does not affect the consumption or pricing.
Just saying, as yet more confirmation that the only way to verify a comparison is to look up the rates and do it yourself.
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Transport fuel prices and "stuff" - Zero
