Further debate.
465010
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 15 Nov 15 at 21:24
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Fantastic responses to this moronic tweet, from this moronic 'journalist':
twitter.com/KayBurley/status/665807478060392448
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that grinning goldie is the spitting image of FiFi Mk2
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It's brought to mind - don't the media love a good tragedy?
More airtime, more trips abroad, better ratings?
They are like a dog with a meaty bone.
Of course they must report happenings, but sometimes they go well OTT.
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>> It's brought to mind - don't the media love a good tragedy?
Aye! .. and it's given me the opportunity to listen to this play list. I'm on volume 8 already:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPgtExnn0oc&app=desktop
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That is one funny thread...
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Utterly brilliant thread.
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A woman has been arrested after a posting on Facebook said Muslims are not welcome in a beauty salon.
Thames Valley Police detained the 43-year-old after the comment appeared on Blinks of Bicester's page following the Paris terrorist attacks.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-34831227
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Truly free speech in this country is now a dangerous joke.
Muslims outside a cathedral with placards saying 'Behead all infidels' are protected by the police, but we'd get arrested if we did something similar outside a mosque.
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You, your kind and your mindless propaganda are part of the problem.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 16 Nov 15 at 14:11
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But what Roger says is absolutely true.
That's not being racist, it's stating what actually happen here.
Pat
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Why did you leap in with racism Pat? It hadn't been mentioned or even referred to obliquely, had it?
Bit of a Freudian problem there?
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Nothing Freudian about looking at your historical allegations towards anyone stating a simple fact.
It is absolutely the tactics used to try and back anyone into a corner who wants to be honest concerning anyone of a different race, and one you use on a regular basis.
Pat
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But not this time Pat. I think your guilty conscience is getting the better of you.
And he did make a statement, but not of fact.
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What has a guilty conscience got to do with it?
I certainly haven't got one....I really think you are having hallucinations.
Unless of course, you actually do think I'm stupid.
Pat
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>> warrenexpressed.org/2015/09/03/gagged/man-with-mouth-taped-shut/
>>
Can you get one of those for a certain leafy suburb dweller? :-)
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I don't know if you (and Z) realise just how much of a shame it is that you can't discuss or debate certain subjects with certain people without getting personal and losing completely what it's all about.
I made a jokey remark about Z in another thread, but it is proving to be very true.
I consider my views on this equally as valid as yours, perhaps more so since I live, and work, in this country in a heavily populated area of foreigners of all nationalities.
I see, on a daily basis, the way management make changes to accommodate them, and I understand that, because they are excellent workers.
I see local firms advertise various traffic office positions paying excellent money for someone with 'language skills' knowing that an English only speaking person will never get the job because they need someone who can communicate with the foreign drivers in their own language.
It makes sense, but I still resent the fact that the foreign drivers are not encouraged to improve their English, both reading and understanding
Stating that doesn't make me racist, it makes me sensible.
Resenting it doesn't make me racist, it makes me sad, very sad for the amount of solid, experienced English guys I know who would be excellent at the job but will never get the chance, because they can't speak anything other than school boy French.
This stuff is all 'bottom of the ladder' but the first rung is where every ladder starts and it goes on, and up and get's bigger.
However big it gets it, it isn't about racism, it's about equality, something I have fought for all of my working life and will always continue to do so.
Pat
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You should consider your views as valid as you wish them to be. I, however, think that banging on about racism and language and employment law when everybody else is talking about religion is daft and irrelevant.
Clueless, even.
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>>I, however, think that banging on about racism and language and employment law when everybody else is talking about religion is daft and irrelevant.
Clueless, even. <<
You think racism and religion don't have any links?
Clueless, really.
Pat
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Racism and religion? The only link they have is in the minds of the ill informed. And a certain though limited correlation of incidence at times, I guess.
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>> Racism and religion? The only link they have is in the minds of the ill
>> informed. And a certain though limited correlation of incidence at times, I guess.
>>
In central Scotland, particularly the west (and I assume NI) the most important question in a job interview can be the innocent sounding "What school did you go to" there are Catholic and Protestant schools here with the Catholic ones distinctivly named.
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>> In central Scotland, particularly the west (and I assume NI) the most important question in
>> a job interview can be the innocent sounding "What school did you go to"
I suspect that in NI your name is enough. If not your address will remove any doubt.
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Islam is a religious thing not a race thing.
Last edited by: R.P. on Mon 16 Nov 15 at 16:42
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For the record, Pat and the other 8, from 18 July 2007:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6904622.stm
Four Muslim men have been jailed for their part in protests at the Danish embassy in London, against cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad.
A hair worth splitting, I hope you agree.
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>> Truly free speech in this country is now a dangerous joke.
>> Muslims outside a cathedral with placards saying 'Behead all infidels' are protected by the police,
>> but we'd get arrested if we did something similar outside a mosque.
>>
So you think it's right that Britons who believe in a civilised society can call for others to be killed but supporters of a barbarous sect should not?
Truly warped thinking.
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Pat didn't say anything was right or wrong, she just referred to a couple of news items which seem to be true.
Roger provokes and FMR is led into invective. Argument would be better.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 16 Nov 15 at 14:29
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>> Truly free speech in this country is now a dangerous joke.
Free speech does not include inciting hatred and never has.
>> Muslims outside a cathedral with placards saying 'Behead all infidels' are protected by the police,
When did that happen? It shouldn't.
>> but we'd get arrested if we did something similar outside a mosque.
Quite rightly. Do you think you should be allowed to do it? Does your disapproval extend to all muslims? That attitude will ensure a long struggle and things getting a lot worse than they are.
The Blinks of Bicester woman is a simpleton; it would be nice to think she is an exception.
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>>Do you think you should be allowed to do it?<<
That's not in question.
The question is one is allowed to do it but the other isn't.
Equality means being treated equally, and that isn't.
Trying to turn it into a racist remark is why it happens.....no-one dare question the different treatment of anything if a non English person is involved these days.
That in itself breeds racism and hatred from within.
Pat
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We seem to be in agreement as far as it goes, but we haven't got to the bottom of whether it is permitted to display a placard "behead all infidels" or whatever.
I assume it isn't.
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>>Truly free speech in this country is now a dangerous joke.
Muslims outside a cathedral with placards saying 'Behead all infidels' are protected by the police
Oh, I've got to see the link to this having happened in the UK.
Until then I presume it is the same racist/xenophobic fear'n'hate fuelling nonsense spouted by other ignorant groups about whatever minority they want to target while seeing themselves as the under-attack indigenous group.
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>> Probably springs from this.
>> www.hoax-slayer.com/muslim-protest-london.shtml
I remember the Danish kerfuffle, more than a decade ago now. A lot of arrests for incitement, perfectly OK by me...
Those placards are hopelessly naive and heart-on-sleeve. Children trying to mess with grown-up stuff. One almost suspects an underhand element of provocation by real, bad adults.
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>>One almost suspects an underhand element of provocation by real, bad adults.
>>
Which are the ones we need to target, and are targeting in Iraq and Syria. Fortunately our home grown do gooders don't have any influence there and don't show any signs of going there to promote their views.
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>> >>One almost suspects an underhand element of provocation by real, bad adults.
>> >>
>>
>> Fortunately our home grown do gooders don't have any influence there and don't show any
>> signs of going there to promote their views.
funnily enough, the home grown do gooders didn't destabilise the region in the first place. The "lets get in there and kick ass" merchants did that.
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>> the home grown do gooders didn't destabilise the region in the first place. The "lets get in there and kick ass" merchants did that.
Yes.
Cute is the only word for Dubya.
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I'll lift a glass to la Payne.
I do believe she used to be a sort of neighbour of mine back in the day. But I may be mistaken. I knew all sorts of tarts in those days, all a bit of a blur.
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>> funnily enough, the home grown do gooders didn't destabilise the region in the first place.
>> The "lets get in there and kick ass" merchants did that.
>>
I know who Zero is. :-)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3320764/Corbyn-not-happy-special-forces-given-orders-shoot-kill-terrorists-Britain-s-streets.html
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>> Truly free speech in this country is now a dangerous joke.
>> Muslims outside a cathedral with placards saying 'Behead all infidels'
Surely Breitbart can provide a link for this story......
Google OTOH didn't find anything recent.
EDIT - I've since read Lygo's link to hoaxslayer.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 17 Nov 15 at 09:34
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" The EU has opened the door to Britain sending troops or other specialists to France after an emergency mechanism was triggered for the first time in the bloc's history.
France activated Article 42, a distress call that compels other EU states to send military and other support. It is akin to Article 5, the Nato mutual defence pact."
The above is from From the Daily Telegraph today.
I think we need our troops & special forces (SAS & SBS) here in Britain.
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>> France activated Article 42, a distress call that compels other EU states to send military..........
Always useful to read what it actually says
"7. If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.
Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation."
In other words our commitments to France under Article 42 are exactly the same as they are under NATO. They are exactly the same today as they were last week.
Usual alarmist twaddle.
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Don't let the truth get in the way of a good Kipper, CGN.
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Oh it won't. He moved on pretty quickly after being caught out on the placards outside the cathedral story. Didn't even apologise to Pat for fooling her into thinking he was stating a fact.
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These words from French interior minister Bernard Cazeneuve, as reported by the BBC's Orla Guerin:
'We have mobilised 115,000 police, gendarmes and military over the whole of our national territory to insure the protection of French people'.
Tough luck on the rest of us then, including the largest migrant Moslem population in Europe...
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...given all the current jingoistic machinations, I'm quite surprised that no-one has yet called for a drone strike on Molenbeek.
Maybe that's just a bit too close to home, and any "collateral damage" too easy to identify with, for it to be comfortable.
Let's just do it "over there" then :-(
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>> Didn't even apologise to Pat for fooling her into thinking he was stating a fact. <<
You really do seriously underestimate me Mark.
I saw Rogers remark as indicative of life in the UK today, and agreed with it.
No apology warranted but perhaps if a few more didn't call for 'proof' every time someone disagrees with them, this place would get more comments from busy people who really don't have time to split hairs.
I would have thought you would have realised I'm not quite that thick, but apparently not.....you'll learn!
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Tue 17 Nov 15 at 14:51
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I saw Rogers remark as indicative of life in the UK today...
Well, in 2006, when people inciting religious hatred were arrested, tried and punished for it. It was a bigoted falsehood but you didn't let that bother you.
...'proof'...split hairs.
Then we could all day what we liked without worrying about anything as trivial as the truth.
All Ukippers shag donkeys, but let's not split hairs over proving it; we don't have the time.
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>>All Ukippers shag donkeys, <<
I was going to make a reply to a very sensible post from you WdeB....until I read the bit above.
It really isn't worth my time.
Pat
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>> >>All Ukippers shag donkeys, <<
>>
>> I was going to make a reply to a very sensible post from you WdeB....until
>> I read the bit above.
Pat,
Roger's original post was put forward as either truth or a metaphor for the decline of free speech in the UK. In either event it's reasonable for those who think he's off beam to ask when it, or something similar, actually happened.
Will now reports that it's a lie and that the demonstrators were charged and convicted.
And now you're ducking out of further debate because he added a flippant and relevant joke.
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Pat Mon 16 Nov 15 14:18
>>But what Roger says is absolutely true.
>>That's not being racist, it's stating what actually happen here.
Oops.
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Sadly Bromp, there is no such thing as debate on this forum.
Pat
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No such thing as debate, Pat? I think your problem is that we are prepared to debate and examine issues and arguments. That means that opinions based on wishful thinking, knee-jerk reactions or - as with Roger's assertion - malicious fabrications, are going to be found out and exposed. That's precisely what debate is for, so stop feeling sorry for yourself.
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Once again you can't resist the nasty remark at the end, can you?
Debate is only possible if you are prepared to open your mind to others opinions, and discuss them.
Debate isn't about who is right or wrong, it's about exploring a subject in a disciplined manner
Dismissing them out of hand, nit-picking about grammar and spelling and diverting the debate to a personal level precludes it ever happening on this forum.
....as we see with so many good discussions on here.
......and why the thumbs and frownies are used so much, it's far easier than voicing an opinion and being ridiculed and dismissed out of hand.
Pat
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...can't resist the nasty remark...
This from the author of 'Do you have a degree in patronising or is it a gift?'
Debate isn't about what's right or wrong...
...but accepting what's demonstrably wrong and treating it as right is OK?
...nitpicking about grammar and spelling...
Who does that? Not me, except very occasionally when it might be amusing (not to you, obviously) or is material to the discussion - when it isn't nitpicking anyway.
...diverting the debate to a personal level...
Hard not to think of 'degree in patronising' again.
...easier than voicing an opinion and being ridiculed...
Easy, certainly, but so is the pointing and jeering behaviour it reminds me of. But if you don't want ridicule, don't express ridiculous opinions - or go on blustering when you've fallen for disinformation from someone whose xenophobia is much worse than yours. In any case, I'm not criticizing you, just your poor choice of arguments and evidence in this discussion. I'd expect just the same if my critical faculties had let me down that badly.
So, now we can get back to the issue of whether the terrorism in Paris will turn white people (and lorry drivers) in the UK into a persecuted minority. I'll go first, shall I?
It won't.
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>>will turn white people (and lorry drivers) in the UK<<
I rest my case!
Pat
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Pat - Mon 16 Nov 15 14:18
"But what Roger says is absolutely true."
Well, except for the fact that it wasn't of course. It was a total fabrication.
>>"I would have thought you would have realised I'm not quite that thick, but apparently not.....you'll learn!"
And how will you teach me that? Because its not going very well in this thread.
>>You really do seriously underestimate me Mark.
And whilst I like a challenge, that would be beyond even my capabilities.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 17 Nov 15 at 17:33
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Well, you've proved my point, so what is it that makes you feel so vulnerable and inadequate then?
I just knew you wouldn't be able to leave it alone!
Pat
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Leave what alone? Replying to you? Or trying to make you see that you dived in convinced that Roger was telling the truth, and he wasn't.
You were prattling on about drivers speaking English, racism and goodness knows what. Your reaction to all of this is peculiar.
But now, and quite unsurprisingly, you want it all left alone now.
I am prepared to fight to overcome my vulnerability and feelings of inadequacy to point out how little you understand these issues.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 17 Nov 15 at 18:47
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>>am prepared to fight to overcome my vulnerability and feelings of inadequacy to point out how little you understand these issues. <<
You'll be waiting along time for me to massage your ego.
Pat
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>> Pat - Mon 16 Nov 15 14:18
>>
>> "But what Roger says is absolutely true."
>>
>>
>> Well, except for the fact that it wasn't of course. It was a total fabrication.
>>
Well, the bit about the placards and the messages on them wasn't a fabrication, as the link I posted pointed out. That did happen, in 2006. The implied bit from Roger about the impunity and lack of subsequent arrest was not so.
So it was partly true.
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>>I think we need our troops & special forces (SAS & SBS) here in Britain
Yeah, let's get that paranoia well and truly stoked up spending billions of quids to have guys w' guns on every corner to keep us safe.
More people die from tobacco consumption related causes in 6 hours than have died from terror related crimes in the past 10 years (including the 52 killed on 7/7)
Tobacco firms/smokers pay plenty of tax so that's ok then.
Maybe they just need a Jihadi tax to legitimise it.
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Invoking the treaty is political gesture stuff.
France can have all the technical help it wants anyway. Not likely to need SAS/SBS boots on the ground, unless a joint ' show' suits both sides.
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>>Not likely to need SAS/SBS boots on the ground, unless a joint ' show' suits both sides.
>>
I believe we have military advisers in the area, that can be political speak for special forces.
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>> >>Not likely to need SAS/SBS boots on the ground, unless a joint ' show' suits both sides.
>>
>> I believe we have military advisers in the area, that can be political speak for special forces.
Do the French need any outside help? The sight of the CRS coming at you in full armour will make you run like a rabbit, believe me.
The thing that really made my jaw drop was the singing of the entire, very warlike and paranoid French national anthem, every word of it from beginning to end, ferocious soldiers coming to cut the throats of our sons and girl friends, etc.
Would we march about singing our gloomy, dirge-like national anthem if some nutters did something like that here? I think we'd be too bashful. I would be anyway.
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One of the reasons we need a new anthem, AC. Glad to hear you're coming round.
Candidates:
Jerusalem
I vow to thee my country
Theme from the Archers
Sunny in England, by 3 Colours Red
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>> One of the reasons we need a new anthem, AC. Glad to hear you're coming
>> round.
>>
>> Candidates:
>>
>> Jerusalem
>> I vow to thee my country
>> Theme from the Archers
>> Sunny in England, by 3 Colours Red
>>
Jerusalem - English
I vow to thee- King.
Archers - English
Sunny in England - English.
Of course you may be anticipating the Disunion of the UK :-)
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Jersualem is often proposed as an anthem but as it it has been pointed out the answer to every question posed in the first two verses is a resounding "No!"
And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England's pleasant pastures seen!
And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?
"Builded" would lose the pedant vote. ;-)
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>> "Builded" would lose the pedant vote. ;-)
Wouldn't lose mine. It's well within the bounds of poetic licence, and surely correct in an obsolete sort of way.
It's a great verse. 'Dark Satanic mills' is a fabulous phrase, savagely anti-capitalist at the apogee of capitalism.
Jerusalem reference is a bit religious and middle eastern but you can't have everything.
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More like "Three Little Maids who all unwary
Come from a ladies seminary…."
DC, TM and GO vocals, libretto by G&S
:)
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Tue 17 Nov 15 at 16:47
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Tchah! Wimps.
Ian Dury, 'Plaistow Patricia'.
A truly fitting anthem for slick, slippery modern Britain.
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>> More like "Three Little Maids who all unwary
>> Come from a ladies seminary…."
>>
>> DC, TM and GO vocals, libretto by G&S
>> :)
>>
Surely DC JC and NS - all of them equally clueless
And the libretto was by Gilbert, the music was by Sullivan (pedantic comment for the day)
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We need an anthem with attitude, like this -
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTPhQ_EEOpM
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>> We need an anthem with attitude, like this -
Yeah, he's good although he does lay it on a bit thick... love the cute little garter though.
However, I still think Ian Dury has it. That Plaistow Patricia lyric cuts straight to the quick, and stays there.
'... a Siamese cat in the council flat, ho ho,
The best of grains for milady's veins ho ho ho!
Plaistow Patricia, etc.... '
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.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Tue 17 Nov 15 at 17:51
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>> I vow to thee my country
Right tune but needs better words.
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President Francois Hollande has said that France is at war. Does that mean we can expect the Germans to come rolling through the Ardennes again?
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>> President Francois Hollande has said that France is at war. Does that mean we can
>> expect the Germans to come rolling through the Ardennes again?
>>
The French are going to invade Scotland to uphold the Scots claim for Independence from England.
Alex Salmon is the (even) Young(er) Pretender..
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Zero. No Duke of Windsor to slip military information to the Nazis.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Tue 17 Nov 15 at 19:02
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Thanks to nortones for causing me to spend the last hour reminding myself of the history of the abdication etc.
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Sorry about that! Not a glorious interlude for our upper classes, with divided loyalties?
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>> Sorry about that! Not a glorious interlude for our upper classes, with divided loyalties?
Not at at all. It led me to Mary Princess Royal and Countess of Harewood.
I well remember at age 5 being stood outside at school to watch the aircraft carrying the Queen and Prince Charles home from the Countess's funeral pass over en route from Yeadon airport back to London.
At the time monarch and successor were not allowed to be on same aircraft so two De Havilland Herons were involved.
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>> Zero. No Duke of Windsor to slip military information to the Nazis.
Well some will say the whole thing is a German plot to take over Europe.
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BREAKING NEWS - Lygonos
