Non-motoring > landlord checks	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: sooty123	Replies: 46

New Sun 11 Oct 15 12:52   landlord checks - sooty123

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34498836 Can someone help me out? I don't understand how this increases racism. LL know the names of who the tenants are anyway. I don't know how this changes anything or am i missing something? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 13:09   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34498836 It's actually a very big ask of landlords to do this properly; immigration status is a complex subject. The penalties for non-compliance are severe - up tp £3k per tenant. Some Landlords, particularly in areas like London where demand already exceeds supply may decide anybody who looks or sounds foreign is too much hassle. tinyurl.com/muc4sec (Chartered Institute of Housing publication). I also thought I'd seen somewhere a proposal to allow tenants found not to have correct immigration status to be evicted without a court order. A red line that should never be crossed IMHO. CAB resources however suggest eviction still needs to go through proper process. Maybe a post coalition amend (ie the LibDems had a red line here too) that's still in the parliamentary pipeline. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 11 Oct 15 at 13:11 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 15:16   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> I also thought I'd seen somewhere a proposal to allow tenants found not to have >> correct immigration status to be evicted without a court order. A red line that should >> never be crossed IMHO. A bit more reading suggests we now have 'Landlord Checks Lite' under an act passed by the coalition and currently being rolled out regionally. Further legislation proposed by the Immigration Bill tightens the regime further including jail for non-compliant landlords and eviction without a court order: www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/offices/commons/commonslibrary/commons-library-news/immigration-bill-2015/ www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/03/illegal-immigrants-face-eviction-without-court-order-under-plans-to-discourage-migrants Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 11 Oct 15 at 15:17 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 15:36   landlord checks - Cliff Pope

Immigrants, legal and illegal, are by definition people from abroad, who are therefore more likely to have foreign names. So presumably to carry out checks in a non-discriminatory way would require landlords to make exactly the same checks on someone called Smith appearing to be of English descent speaking perfect English as for someone of foreign appearance and name who had very little English? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 16:30   landlord checks - Zero

ID cards would fix it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 20:24   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> ID cards would fix it. Only if they're comprehensive and compulsory. I don't think that's on any electable party's agenda. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 20:39   landlord checks - Zero

>> >> ID cards would fix it. >> >> Only if they're comprehensive and compulsory. as they should be >> I don't think that's on any electable party's agenda. It should be. If All the parties* had it on the agenda, it would come to pass. Just use the "it will fix the immigrant problem" argument, Joe P, would buy it. *Except Corbyn of course. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 20:51   landlord checks - sooty123

>> It should be. If All the parties* had it on the agenda, it would come >> to pass. Just use the "it will fix the immigrant problem" argument, Joe P, would >> buy it. >> Now that would be a decision for some papers, which is worst; EU backed ID cards or EU backed immigrants? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 20:53   landlord checks - Zero

>> Now that would be a decision for some papers, which is worst; EU backed ID >> cards or EU backed immigrants? Who said the ID card was EU backed? Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 11 Oct 15 at 22:56 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 20:56   landlord checks - sooty123

>> Who said the ID card was EU backed? >> Just a little play on the assumed position/s of certain newspapers where everything is related to the EU even if it's not. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 20:29   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> So presumably to carry out checks in a non-discriminatory way would require landlords to make >> exactly the same checks on someone called Smith Yes, but they're probably doing something like that anyway or identity. Employers do this too - I had to produce my Passport to go on CAB payroll. Asking Landlords to judge people's immigration status is several steps more. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 21:58   landlord checks - zippy

>> Yes, but they're probably doing something like that anyway or identity. Employers do this too >> - I had to produce my Passport to go on CAB payroll. I dislike these checks. What if you don't have a passport - you don't get the job? My employer has just started to ask for the CRB check for new staff (I didn't need it) but colleagues have had to have it done at their own expense. We don't deal with young people - only with businesses but it is a requirement of the Scottish Govt. even though we are based in England, we may work in Scotland occasionally - but only to visit companies and our customer is never the Govt. Official madness! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 11 Oct 15 21:13   landlord checks - ....

If you are an adult (over 16) and legal don't you have a national insurance number ? I see a PAYG service from the tax office here which has the added bonus of linking NI numbers back to addresses. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 12 Oct 15 08:06   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> If you are an adult (over 16) and legal don't you have a national insurance >> number ? If you're born/brought up here then it arrives automatically in the post at 16 - presumably generated via Child Benefit records. There is a more involved mechanism by which a NINO can be issued to others here legally. ISTR various Australian law grads at my last CS office, over here on some sort of student/visitor working visa concession, discussing how to get one. Although used as a unique identifier in government I don't think an NINO is proof of identity or immigration status. It's also not photographic or time limited and I suspect a significant number currently in circulation are not wholly legitimate. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 12 Oct 15 at 08:07 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 12 Oct 15 09:02   landlord checks - ....

>> Although used as a unique identifier in government I don't think an NINO is proof >> of identity or immigration status. It's also not photographic or time limited and I suspect >> a significant number currently in circulation are not wholly legitimate. >> It does not need to be photographic and hence why I added the comment about a PAYG service from the tax office. Name and number does not match, receive a visit. Number pops up on the system at more than one address receive a visit. It would run itself. How difficult would it be to include an NI number as part of the immigration process ? Surely, if you are moving country you intend to work, support yourself (and dependants) and contribute overall the betterment of your environment in some way ? If so then you will need a NI number in the UK. Last edited by: gmac on Mon 12 Oct 15 at 09:04 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 12 Oct 15 10:05   landlord checks - commerdriver

NINO is also part of the benefits system for many job related benefits, I assume, but do not know, that it is also used as part of the beneficiary info in other benefit systems such as housing. Maybe someone with more info can correct me on this Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 12 Oct 15 21:16   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> It does not need to be photographic and hence why I added the comment about >> a PAYG service from the tax office. Name and number does not match, receive a >> visit. Number pops up on the system at more than one address receive a visit. >> It would run itself. If it was and had been for years a strict National Identity Number that might work. It never was and it's not now so 'a visit' is not viable as either a help or a threat. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 12 Oct 15 12:22   landlord checks - Cliff Pope

>> > I suspect >> a significant number currently in circulation are not wholly legitimate. >> Riddled with so many fakes and double-identities I have heard that it is pretty much useless as an unique identifier. I think it's more a useful back-up to confirm other more reliable means of identity. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 12 Oct 15 12:34   landlord checks - Mapmaker

>> I suspect a significant number currently in circulation are not wholly legitimate. Programme on Radio 4 the other day about illegal immigrant workers said: 'Get somebody in Eastern Europe to apply for a NI No., as they are entitled to. They stay there, and you can use it.' Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 12 Oct 15 22:07   landlord checks - Dave_

A good landlord should be checking prospective tenants' immigration status as well as many other criteria already; this legislation simply criminalises the act of not doing so. Lists of acceptable proofs a couple of scrolls down here: www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/right-rent-immigration-checks/ (Great site; does contain occasional moderate profanities though) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:05   landlord checks - No FM2R

In any country I have been in it has been my responsibility to prove my immigration status. So a Landlord asks me to prove it, and I have to. Usually a stamped passport, sometimes my ID card for that country, here by fingerprint if asked. How does that get to be difficult?; "Oi, tenant, prove to me you're legally here!" "Landlord, please see my passport with visa inside" I am not asked i I am happy to prove my status, I am just told that I will. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:20   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> So a Landlord asks me to prove it, and I have to. Usually a stamped >> passport, sometimes my ID card for that country, here by fingerprint if asked. >> >> How does that get to be difficult?; We don't have ID cards or fingerprint analysis. There are a bewildering number of variations on UK immigration status not all of which are shown by clear/consistent paperwork that is going to be evident to a non-expert landlord. Easier to avoid furrin sounding names altogether. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 13 Oct 15 at 20:21 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:25   landlord checks - No FM2R

You carry your passport!! Like every single legal inmigrant anywhere else. And there is nothing confusing or bewildering about the date printed on the page in your passport - its a date, and its printed. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:24   landlord checks - Roger.

>> I am not asked i I am happy to prove my status, I am just >> told that I will. >> Same with us when we were in Spain,. Always had to carry proper photographic proof of ID. (Passport or residencia card). When in Rome......................... ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:26   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> When in Rome......................... ! Absolutely. But in Londinium there's no requirement to carry (or even possess) photographic ID. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:28   landlord checks - No FM2R

There is a requirement for you to prove your immigration status so you use your passport l. Jeez, why are you making this so difficult? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:36   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> Jeez, why are you making this so difficult? Is one's status in UK immediately clear from stamps in (say) a Senegalese passport or is other paperwork needed to tell whole story? Do you as a landlord understand the fine details of, for example, variations on leave to remain? I'm not 'making it difficult', just pointing out that like most things it's maybe not as simple as folks, particularly politicians, would like you to believe. See the CIH document I linked too in post #2 on this thread. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 13 Oct 15 at 20:40 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:46   landlord checks - No FM2R

Yes. The British visa is the same in EVERY passport. Its a b***** British visa !!! Written in b***** English. You do not need to understand anything other than the date. Oh, and sometimes the word "permanent". Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:58   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> Yes. The British visa is the same in EVERY passport. Its a b***** British visa >> !!! Written in b***** English. And no variations on that theme? No difference if (eg) you've entered via an asylum route? No question of papers being with the Home Office? I'm sorry but I prefer the CIH view. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 22:47   landlord checks - No FM2R

No variations. They know they have to carry their passport and they do. I am quite sure you prefer the CIH view. But that doesn't make it right. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:32   landlord checks - Armel Coussine

Plastic driving licence has a rather poor photo of my mug on it. My ghastly red Euro passport lives in my inside pocket and is nearly as dog-eared as my chequebook. Even so the authorities in my experience are quite capable of not knowing who I am. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 13 Oct 15 21:19   landlord checks - R.P.

No there isn;t Bromp. but every clientI've dealt with and asked for proofs residence or otherwise carries either a passport or a Home Office proof of residence. Not in over four years has that not happened. As Mark says...they'll have to, they know they have to and they will. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 14 Oct 15 20:04   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

>> No there isn;t Bromp. but every clientI've dealt with and asked for proofs residence or >> otherwise carries either a passport or a Home Office proof of residence. The few I've seen also had passport stamps and/or biometric cards. But as Mark pointed out in another thread CAB clients are a self self-selecting sample and not necessarily representative. Establishing Immigration status is also crucial to providing accurate/quality advice so we have to pay attention. HMG's guidance on subject, a 30 page pdf, lists multiple single or combined proofs of 'right to rent' and they're required to be checked for each person living at any letting. Some must be current. others could be current or expired. I'm sticking to my line that (a) it's a big ask of landlords and (b) some will respond by rejecting prospective renters who are perceived to need such checks - which was the OP's question. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:27   landlord checks - No FM2R

That's twice Roger, quite enough for one week don't you think? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:51   landlord checks - Armel Coussine

What we all need is a 35-digit Nazi-style tattoo to distinguish us from the rest of the two or three billion humans. Or a microchip inserted at the same time as our pacemakers. Something along those lines. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 13 Oct 15 20:52   landlord checks - No FM2R

Didn't I read somewhere that pacemakers can be scanned? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 21:03   landlord checks - Armel Coussine

They run a sort of mouse over it which can read it and if necessary (or even if not) alter its settings. Amazing stuff they can do these days. They can probably even turn it off and shut me down. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 13 Oct 15 21:20   landlord checks - R.P.

A little furry mouse ? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 23:14   landlord checks - Roger.

¡No - un ratón! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 14 Oct 15 00:12   landlord checks - zippy

>>They can probably even turn it off and shut me down. >> Yes, yes they can! www.forbes.com/sites/singularity/2012/12/06/yes-you-can-hack-a-pacemaker-and-other-medical-devices-too/ Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 13 Oct 15 23:28   landlord checks - ....

>> Didn't I read somewhere that pacemakers can be scanned? >> Better than that they run a full set of diagnostics and phone home via Wi-Fi every 24 hours. Some friends of ours their eldest son who is 8 were called in to the hospital as a matter of urgency. The son had not been ill or shown any signs of distress. 24 hours later the pacemaker had stopped doing its job, he was opened up and a new unit fitted. It was actually some wires that had failed not the unit itself. Absolutely amazing piece of technology. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 14 Oct 15 00:19   landlord checks - zippy

>>Absolutely amazing piece of technology. There are lots of wonderful things being developed in the medical field. I went to a company that fitted a Doppler sensor to the end of a tube and stuck one end down your throat and the other to a computer. The result is a real time image of the heart beating that allows the surgeons to see what is going on without the need for surgery - obviously the results may lead to surgery. Should save the NHS a fortune. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 14 Oct 15 10:56   landlord checks - neiltoo

A lot of input on this since I last looked. But.... I'm a UK national. I want to rent a house. Landlord wants to see proof. I don't have a passport, since I don't travel abroad. I have a pink/green driving license, with no picture. NI number isn't proof. What does the landlord do? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 14 Oct 15 11:00   landlord checks - Alanovich

Birth stickyfate? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 14 Oct 15 11:16   landlord checks - No FM2R

Its not proof for a court; why wouldn't he be happy with your driving licence? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 14 Oct 15 13:59   landlord checks - CGNorwich

See list of acceptable documents in link above. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 22 Oct 15 19:38   landlord checks - Bromptonaut

More on the subject www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/22/theresa-may-landlords-immigration-right-to-rent-discrimination Reply to this message | Report message