Cambridgeshire police commissioner Graham Bright thinks we don't need many police stations here. After all, he says,
"With the technology we've got, officers don't need police stations. They can actually make reports in the car or the coffee shop which gives more visibility of the police outside. We reckon that the time saved by this is getting on for 30 per cent of their time which is absolutely amazing."
I reckon I don't need an office either. I'm sure I can produce a confidential report and give it my undivided attention in Starbucks, no problem.
www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Just-police-stations-Cambridgeshire-safe-closure/story-27948012-detail/story.html
Having said that, I've only ever tried to use a police station twice - once to report something (hopeless, they had no interest at all) and once to show my driving documents (also hopeless as they failed to record I'd done so properly anyway, leading to a load of CPS hassle).
Would you miss yours or have they gone already?
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 08:21
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Our current one i think is only manned part time but I'm not sure tbh. Can't say I've ever needed to go to a police station in my life although you never know.
Obviously this is from budget cuts so i suppose they have to do what they can. The CC works with the budget he's got not the one he wants.
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Been a load shut and some new ones built around here. There;s a "shared facility" in my nearest town - they share it with probation I believe. They've built a massive shared one in er...Nefyn of all places.
www.north-wales.police.uk/news-and-appeals/official-opening-marks-beginning-of-new-partnership-in-nefyn.aspx
The one it replaces is around 10 years old. Built bungalow style will be easily convertible to a house in my mind )(I used to park next to it in my CAB van) and maybe might make for good value on the market
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 08:46
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As you know there has been a lot of grief and hassle caused by the reduction in police control rooms in Scotland. A lot of smaller police stations have been have been shut, flattened, and the land sold off. It has not affected my area as we have a big "hub" police station but they are few and far between. Shutting police stations can be the start of a slippery slope.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 09:03
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You need police stations because:
1, You have to take prisoners somewhere. If your custody police station is 40 miles away, then you find ways around not nicking people, because it's too much hassle to go there.
2, You need somewhere for the cops to write reports in confidence, have lockers, store riot kit, minor maintenance of police vehicles, store prisoners/lost property, house the CID, etc
3, You need some front desks for the public to attend or do we tell people without access to computers/tablets that they don't count.
4, Go to the lavatory...or does Starbucks have to cater for that?
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Off topic, but brought to mind by WP's mention of toilet facilities.
Our medium sized town has just one functioning public toilet, halfway up (yes uphill) the main street and formed by using a portion of space from a council satellite office. Obviously I cannot speak for the ladies' loo, but the male one has just two urinals and a WC.
Other public toilets in the town have been shut because of vandalism and anti-social behaviour (drugs, drink & gay activity).
Even the covered shopping centre, where they are blooming quick to collect & enforce parking charges (with parking enforcers on site) has shut its own toilets for the same reasons.
That leaves me, certainly and I suspect from conversations, others too, with a strong disincentive to go into town to shop, particularly in the mornings, when my two diuretics are, so to speak, in full flow! The heave up the main street to the council loos is not so easy for some people.
Should there be, as there is in Spain, a strict convention that any cafe, or other eating establishment, is obliged to make its customer toilets open to non-customers?
I guess that currently, most of us being British, would feel embarrassed using an establishment's toilets without buying something. If the the obligation to provide those facilities was laid down and published would that change things?
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 10:20
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>>Our medium sized town has just one functioning public toilet,
Our massive city has just one that I can think of. Under Parliament Square, by Westminster tube station. There might still be one at Piccadilly station too. Otherwise... and it certainly doesn't put off the tourists.
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>> Our medium sized town has just one functioning public toilet
Our nearby small town is just one big toilet.
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Our local one has already gone and since been replaced by a portakabin on a small industrial estate. Nearest proper plod station is nearly 12 miles away.
Even the plod station in Oxford (St Aldates) doesn't have cells anymore. Naughty crims need to be taken to Abingdon nick now.
tinyurl.com/pqhuf6z - Oxford Mail
Also, didn't Boris Johnson recently say "police officers are more important than buildings.â€
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 10:21
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I've been to a police station five times in my life:
1) to report that I had been a witness to an incident involving an armed policeman arresting someone. Not interested.
2) to report a mad driver who had suddenly done a U-turn on a roundabout in central London. I had hit him broadside on with my landrover., then he waved and drove off. No damage to my vehicle, police not interested.
3) to make a statement after being mugged and punched in Charing Cross road. He painfully typed it up, after an argument with one of his colleagues who had moved the station's only pot of snopake.
4) to surrender my shotgun licence and hand in a shotgun. Starbucks would have done just as well?
5) to report having hit and injured a dog loose at night on a country road. The dog had run off.
Not interested.
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What I don't know, and will endeavour to find out later on, is how Police budget/spending has changed in real terms over the last 30 years. Both in total amount and in how it is spent.
Every year we hear about cuts and savings.
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>> What I don't know, and will endeavour to find out later on, is how Police
>> budget/spending has changed in real terms over the last 30 years. Both in total amount
>> and in how it is spent.
That might prove difficult to get a meaningful picture.
By that, I mean there has been a vast change in working practices.
E.g....these are some of the things that now exist that never used to 30 years ago:
domestic violence unit; child protection team; prisoner handling; VISOR unit (violent and sexual offender register); intelligence unit*; pro-active CID**; re-active CID**; criminal justice unit; integrated borough ops***; operations and duties****; robbery unit£; burglary unit£; crime squad£
* there used to be a 'collator', but there'd be a maximum of 2 staff in there, nowadays it's nearer 20, it's the place all the intel is collated and shared
** there just used to be CID
*** mini control room type place that does the urgent checks on people/places as police officers are attending calls. This is totally separate to the police control room which might be some distance away.
**** this function was there 30 years ago, but again with only 2 staff, rather than the 20 nowadays
£ there would have just been a crime squad 30 years ago and they would have covered all these three angles.
The above is a flavour, I've missed loads. The workload nowadays bears no comparison to what it used to. The modern way is desperately trying to keep the lid on things.. and failing miserably in the process.
In the old system you went out on patrol with nothing specific to do, but tried to sniff out wrongdoing, or stopped someone for traffic offences and saw what came of it, or grabbed a few warrants and knocked on doors, or sat up on a disqualified driver, or sat outside a problem pub, etc.. nowadays forget that, it's fire brigade policing.. responding to calls only... there's not enough time for anything else...
... and it's definitely getting far worse.
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On a recent Police Interceptors the Road team were out doing their stuff, all of which appeared to be driven by intel coming from a pair of handlers. One of the handlers got the gen, the other researched it and followed up on the various databases, internet, PNC, ANPR etc, as well as directing the driver. The drivers had been working with these guys for a number of years yet had never met them.
I think the interceptors were the Road Crime team, but they were not responsible for any enforcement of road laws, that would be Traffic. I have to say it seemed a very effective way to work, actually targetting specific people, crimes or areas, rather than just poncing about all shift in a car, not necessarily achieving much.
As an aside, WP I think said above that no police stations would mean coppers avoiding arresting people if the nearest check-in centre was 40 miles away. That ex-policeman with the comedy show on Radio 4 (Alfie Moore) said on one of his shows that that isn't an option. I think it was in relation to turning a blind eye to a small quantity of drugs. I suppose "we'd never know" if they did, but then I'd like to think that coppers play largely by the rules these days.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 12:45
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We need mobile (motorhome style) police stations then.
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>> I have to say it seemed
>> a very effective way to work, actually targetting specific people, crimes or areas, rather than
>> just poncing about all shift in a car, not necessarily achieving much.
I've seen that... and I agree it is very effective.
Trouble is it's costly as well. Don't forget they are a separate unit to the traffic unit, the general policing team and the local policing team.
>> That ex-policeman with
>> the comedy show on Radio 4 (Alfie Moore) said on one of his shows that
>> that isn't an option.
I think it was in relation to turning a blind eye
>>
He is speaking with forked tongue. What did he do when all the cells were full?... and they are regularly.
What I didn't elaborate on is your 40 mile trip to the station with the cells, let's say an hour's journey, then has the booking in procedure to go through (40 mins) and it's common to wait in the car park 2 hours before you get to that bit. That's before you've written your notes and written up the electronic crime sheet and other bits/bobs... 6 hours would be a good turn around, 12 if you are unlucky.
Last edited by: Westpig on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 14:28
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"12 if you are unlucky" - on overtime though I guess?
I have to say, Interceptors (and therefore I guess all police) seem to have to spend way too long back at the station once they have collared someone, I'm not sure why they can't just hand them over to someone to be processed and get out feeling a few more more collars. I do realise there is paperwork to be done but I'm not clear why an admin person couldn't do a lot of that, once the initial reports have been written up.
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>> "12 if you are unlucky" - on overtime though I guess?
Yes... for Constables and Sergeants.
Believe it or not though, many don't want the overtime.... esp if you are nearing the end of a long shift... and home beckons more strongly than an increased pay packet.
I don't know why, but 30 years ago, cops would do anything for more overtime, but nowadays sometimes you can't get anyone interested. Maybe the budget cuts and manager's clamping down so much on overtime has bred a culture where they are not used to it.
>>
>> I do realise there is paperwork to be
>> done but I'm not clear why an admin person couldn't do a lot of that,
>> once the initial reports have been written up.
In theory you are absolutely correct... trouble is it's more people to be paid and there'd be a hierarchy that went with it.. and then a standard needed before you could 'hand over', etc.
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Mrs RP works full shifts - 10 hour turns. Trust me the last thing she wants is OT
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>> and manager's clamping
>> down so much on overtime has bred a culture where they are not used to
>> it.
If my memory serves me correctly, I think I had a budget of £2,000 ish per month, so £24,000 p.a. for overtime for my officers.
I had 42 PCs and 8 sergeants on paper, although the reality was about 36 and 6.... which equates to £48 per officer, per month.
So one PC claiming 2 hours o/t would use their allocation in one go.. and a sergeant called in on a day off at short notice would earn triple his/her allocation in one go.
Suffice to say overtime was somewhat discouraged.... and it's got far worse in the 4 years I've been gone.
There was talk of buying out PC and PS overtime... but it never came to anything because the whole system would grind to a halt... who would answer their phone at home if they thought it was work calling them back in... for nothing extra?... when they are already in a system that demands huge amounts from them.
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Without wishing to make any point, it shows therefore that pay levels are "more adequate". When I was in an overtime grade (as a computer tech) fifteen or so years ago we'd jump at any chance of it - especially the younger ones with the large mortgages and young families.
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>>When I was in an overtime grade (as a computer tech) fifteen or so years ago we'd jump at any chance of it
I used to be an overtime junky, regularly doing 2 hours overtime a few times per week [but only actually working 1 hour ;)] I'd also quite often work on bank holidays too - needed the spondulics see!
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>> Without wishing to make any point, it shows therefore that pay levels are "more adequate".
Generally I'd agree with you, although everything has changed for the newbies.
It's not just about the money though. Your working conditions and work/life balance come in to it... they have to be right too.
We go in circles, the Govt is hammering the police at the moment (and others) and IMO it's down to the cost.
Fast forward x years and there'll be a problem and hey ho off we go again.
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Our police station closed about 6/7 years ago, and the nearest ones are Barrow (25mls away) and Workington (about 40mls away). We rarely see a P/O or Traffic Warden during the week, but a couple of cars and a van arrive in the town on Sat nights. In usual cases, they generally pick-up some easy target (tipsy person staggering home) and cart them off to Workinton for the night, to "justify" their visit. They know there is no Transport home till Monday, still they kick them out (uncharged) next morning to let them walk home or hitch a lift! - A friend of ours was "lifted" a fortnight ago, allegedly threw a pie at the van, you can't get fish 'n' Chips after 8-30pm at a weekend, wheres he produced a pie from at 0300am?
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Before I had cars I used to hitchhike everywhere. I had to go all over the country to do market research. Ended up late one cold night in Cambridge, very short of ready money, knackered and having to work the next day.
I went into the police station and asked politely if they had an empty cell I could sleep in. They chortled a bit and showed me into a cell, politely leaving the door ajar, and I tried to kip on the hard wooden bench. I think they lent me a somewhat malodorous blanket too. It wasn't the most comfortable night of my life, but the grinning fuzz gave me a cup of tea in the morning. Nice of them I thought.
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Oddly enough, my other experience of police cells was in the central police station in Oxford. That time though I was flung into the cell by irritated fuzz, being mad drunk and bleeding after a run-in with some unpleasant undergraduates. I was bailed early in the morning by the Senior Dean of my college, an unlikeable fellow. That was much nastier, and I was up before the beak later that morning, being fined a small sum before being released bruised and with a black eye and cut temple. I used to be a bit of a scallywag, heaven knows why. Sheer idiocy I think.
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>> I was bailed early in
>> the morning
The ND try to get rid of much crap as possible before the early shift come on, (usually about 6am)...;-)
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I have only visited a police station three times in my life:
1. To report a stolen car stereo. Got crime number as required.
2. Presented driving docs per request from Mersey Tunnels Police. Officer on desk had never seen a producer from that force before.
3. To hand over cash to avoid an arson conviction for my idiot son.
Conclusion - none of this needed an actual police station, and could have been dealt with elsewhere.
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The Oxford and Cambridge cells were the only ones I've been in in this country. They were relatively civilized. But I went once in Lagos to Mushin police station in the hope of bailing out a scapegrace cousin of my host at the time, Fela Kuti. The cousin and a friend of his had been seized for driving around in the friend's father's car, which they had taken without permission. They were in a bare cell without a bench or seat, and the floor completely covered by a pool of urine.
We asked the cousin if he really wanted to stand up all night in there with his feet in the urine. He insisted on staying, out of loyalty to his friend. Eventually, the next day, the friend's father was contacted and they were let out.
Another time, in the Algerian Sahara, the local gendarmerie arrested the entire foreign press scrum, which had to wait in a Tamanrasset nick until an intelligent senior officer turned up and let us out. That time though they left the door open and there was no urine on the floor. It got very hot and boring though. The numerous French hacks were not best pleased, to the ill-concealed pleasure of the gendarmes.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 19:40
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>> Another time, in the Algerian Sahara, the local gendarmerie arrested the entire foreign press scrum,
I've just remembered why the press corps was arrested: for the Algerian offence of 'taking unauthorized photographs of military equipment'. The fact that we had been invited there for the purpose of covering, and photographing, a visit by the then president, Boumedienne, to what was called 'the South', cut no ice with the gendarmes who hadn't been told about it officially (although they understood perfectly). Lots of military equipment had been lined up specifically to be photographed by us.
It's probably worse these days because Algeria has collapsed and doesn't have a proper government. Although bribery probably works now, which it didn't in those days.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 20:22
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>> I have only visited a police station three times in my life:
And me, arrested three times but only charged once. Two court appearances tho
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ON. I think that we are already at the bottom of a very slippery slope. I fail to see that there's much farther to go.
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>>
>> Would you miss yours or have they gone already?
>>
>>
Surrey old bill sold them all off years ago, we haven't got any. There are a few small warehouses around on industrial esates where the cars are garaged
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Visited Police holding cells in Saudi Arabia roughly 45 years ago. The reason for the visit as to deliver food & juice to a work colleague or 2 that had fallen foul of the ban on alcohol. They had been caught drunk or in possession of drink and were locked up for a week to 10 days, plead guilty, and were deported.
Typically a large room with bars running the full width of the room, up to 10/12 people in for a range of offences. If locked up you needed friends outside to call with food etc 2/3 x per day as anything could go off in the intense heat of summer - up to 110 deg F but in the confines of the building a lot higher. Not very nice would be an understatement.
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In about 1983 I was thrown in Jail in Agadir, Morocco. This was in the days befor eAgadir was a tourist destination.
I have never in my life, before or since, been so scared - until you get control of it, it is the level of fear at which you simply cannot function.
The prison was essentially an old warehouse or factory which now represented the one room that everybody was kept in - shoplifters and mass murders and everything in between.
We all shared the one gutter for bodily functions, and took whatever "food" was offered.
People were not searched before being thrown in. I guess guns were not fashionable, but knives were. Oh my dear God, knives were.
Laughably, and I can only tell you it didn't seem like it, I was only there for 3 or 4 days. Aside from the rights or wrongs of any individual case, it is beyond me how someone could cope with a sentence of years in such a place.
When various "toughs" complain about conditions in an English jail, one cannot help but laugh.
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>> In about 1983 I was thrown in Jail in Agadir, Morocco. This was in the
>> days befor eAgadir was a tourist destination.
Why did you end up there in the first place?
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Go on, you can't put on all that without saying why you ended up their in the first place.
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Yeah FMR, how naughty were you exactly? Bought some dope from the wrong guy? Showed disrespect to an Imam or local princeling? Tried to pray in the Mosque when intoxicated? Come on, be a sport.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 23:17
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I was a gobby t*** that got into a fight when I shouldn't have done, compounded by the fact that I was in the wrong. It is shameful and embarrassing. You'll not get any more than that.
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>> I was a gobby t*** that got into a fight when I shouldn't have done, compounded by the fact that I was in the wrong. It is shameful and embarrassing.
Heh heh... We've all been there comrade. Some of us have anyway.
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>> I was a gobby t*** that got into a fight when I shouldn't have done,
>> compounded by the fact that I was in the wrong. It is shameful and embarrassing.
>> You'll not get any more than that.
>>
You load 'em - I'll fire 'em............................................
Nothing's changed then :-)
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.******
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 10 Oct 15 at 14:13
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"I was a gobby t***"
Interesting use of the word 'was'.
;-)
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Damn there's a bunch of gutless b******s read this forum.
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An interesting insight though don't you think?
"O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."
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Interesting? No, I don't think so. Frankly, not even an insight, never mind interesting. Typically a manifestation of impotent bitterness.
I am sure everybody in here has an opinion of me. In very few cases am I even sufficiently interested enough to care that an opinion is held, never mind what it might be.
And our residential ghostly thumb and frownie givers are certainly not on the [very small] list.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 10 Oct 15 at 21:36
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I'm not sure I've read your comments correctly but if you aren't interested in thumbs up etc, why bother commenting on it ? Apologies if I've misunderstood.
what leads you to think it's some form of bitterness?
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>>if you aren't interested in thumbs up etc, why bother commenting on it ?
Because a system that facilitates such a behaviour annoys me.
>> what leads you to think it's some form of bitterness?
Look at it like this; in traffic, after some level of confrontation, have you ever known the person in front to blow their horn in anger? Is it not normally the person behind with a feeling of frustration, bitterness and resentment that blows his horn?
And in such a situation isn't that horn blowing utterly without impact on the person in front and merely an indication of the feelings of impotence felt by the person who considered that they somehow "lost" or were disadvantaged?
p.s. think about that the next time you are in traffic and do blow your horn.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 10 Oct 15 at 21:50
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It can be but not always, disliking someone or their actions doesn't always involve bitterness or jealousy. It can be a simple dislike of their actions or attitude.
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True.
But if all you feel that all you can do about their actions is blow your horn, then that must surely cause feelings of impotence, about which one is likely to be bitter?
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And, as you say, not always.
But the thing about generalisations is that whilst they are not always true, they generally are.
See, take Roger for example. I doubt he likes me. But equally I doubt he feels any such frustration; since when he has something to say he gets out there and says it. Roger is likely to blow his horn as he goes hammering past, not from three cars behind.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 10 Oct 15 at 22:08
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>> And, as you say, not always.
>>
>> But the thing about generalisations is that whilst they are not always true, they generally
>> are.
>>
>> See, take Roger for example. I doubt he likes me. But equally I doubt he
>> feels any such frustration; since when he has something to say he gets out there
>> and says it. Roger is likely to blow his horn as he goes hammering past,
>> not from three cars behind.
>>
>>
>>
Funnily enough, in the 27 months we have owned our present car I've only blown the horn once and that was a genteel peep to wake up a dozy driver who had missed the traffic lights changing to green!
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>> Funnily enough, in the 27 months we have owned our present car I've only blown
>> the horn ...
Roger, you have a set of opinions that i cannot live with. But those to one side i expect we'd get on.
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>>
>> >> Funnily enough, in the 27 months we have owned our present car I've only
>> blown
>> >> the horn ...
>>
>> Roger, you have a set of opinions that i cannot live with. But those to
>> one side i expect we'd get on.
>>
I am unfailingly polite to members of all races with whom I personally interact, face to face.
Good manners demand no less, but I suspect like many others I fail to live up to my standards behind the relative anonymity of a computer keyboard. ;-0
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>> Funnily enough, in the 27 months we have owned our present car I've only blown
>> the horn once and
then the exhaust fell off.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 12 Oct 15 at 08:41
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I'm talking wider than your anolgy. Likewise my experience teaches me something else about accusions of jealously.
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>>my experience teaches me something else about accusions of jealously.
Absolutely. But, other than the twice you've mentioned it, I don't think that was mentioned, was it? Apologies if I just missed it.
But in most cases of accusation, sometimes its accurate, sometimes it isn't, sometimes there's hidden emotions and sometimes there isn't.
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Absolutely. But, other than the twice you've mentioned it, I don't think that was mentioned,
>> was it? Apologies if I just missed it.
>>
>>
I substituted the word bitterness for it. I think the two are fairly interchangeable. I think my points still stand.
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Well, I haven,t added a thumb or a frowny, but I did think that the original post and reply were extremely funny,and until Mark took the hump, was in reasonably good humour. Shame it got serious..
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Whilst I am quite capable of taking the hump, I actually haven't / didn't.
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>>
>> And in such a situation isn't that horn blowing utterly without impact on the person
>> in front
No,not always. Sometimes they get really upset out of all proportion to the incident and make rude gestures out of the window.
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>> In very few cases am I even sufficiently interested enough to care
Tsk. Tautology.
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>> >> In very few cases am I even sufficiently interested enough to care
>>
>> Tsk. Tautology.
>>
There is a level of interest below which caring is unlikely. But even if someone meets that threshold, they may none the less not care, perhaps because they are not a caring sort of person.
The statement suggests that the author had no personal interest in the situation (eg he was not actually inconvenienced by the queue) but further, even if he was in the queue, he wasn't bothered enough to care.
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I was just being pedantic about language. 'Sufficiently interested enough' is the tautology: the meaning would be adequately expressed either by 'sufficiently interested' or by 'interested enough'.
Dig?
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If we are cutting coppers, can this one go on top of the list please:
tinyurl.com/ou7ztbz (Daily Mail)
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When will they ever learn that being a Police Officer, expressing views and social media are not a good mix.
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It's not unique to Police Officers. Any professional needs to be careful what appears on their social media sites, as colleagues and prospective employers can be nosey sorts and form career-impacting opinions based on very little information.
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As a Police Staff friend says...don't post anything on facebook that you wouldn't be afraid to shout in the car-park of the Police HQ on a summers' day when the windows are open.
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Do we need police stations? - sooty123
