***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 6 *****
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Continuing discussion.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 10 Jan 16 at 19:07
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>>www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11883575/Young-doctors-must-repay-debt-to-taxpayers-before-moving-abroad.html
The day I take my medicopolitical advice from some self-serving ex-Army prick who is now an MP is the day I move to Australia.
Maybe Tugendhat feels the 'British Taxpayer' (whoever this virtuous individual is, as it applies to everyone in the nation, including doctors) should also pay handsomely foreign countries whose doctors and nurses have come here to work after being trained overseas.
The UK imports waaaaay more doctors and nurses than it 'exports'.
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You know him personally? You seem annoyed by him and his past.
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BASHAR AL-ASSAD
(lines on the innocent-looking hereditary president of Syria):
Bashar Al-Assad! O Bashar Al-Assad!
You're a horrible murdering toerag
(But no worse than your Dad).
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Ood' a thort it?
Theresa May has just (at the Tory conference) morphed into Nigel Farage!
Link to Breitbart London.
tinyurl.com/odb9p9e
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How long before Nigel Farage becomes a Tory MP?
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Designed to attract floating UKIP and New Labour voters.
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They float? I knew it. Damned witches, all of them.
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>> An alternative perspective:
>>
>> www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/06/theresa-may-immigration-threat-britain
>>
Sorry but any article which states:"The very institutions that have tied this nation isle together – the National Health Service, the BBC, the welfare state – are the very things May’s party is busy dismantling."
is so risible it's not worth the paper it's written on, let alone the (grossly inflated) salary of a Guardian columnist
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German mayoral candidate Reker stabbed over refugee support:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34561531
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Oh dear Mutti, what have you done? Angela Merkel's decisions on letting migrants in en masse have caused more strife, not less and will come to haunt her...badly.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12082366/German-women-report-string-of-sexual-assaults-by-Arab-and-North-African-men.html
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>> Oh dear Mutti, what have you done? Angela Merkel's decisions on letting migrants in en
>> masse have caused more strife, not less and will come to haunt her...badly.
>>
>> www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12082366/German-women-report-string-of-sexual-assaults-by-Arab-and-North-African-men.html
IF and it is still if they were migrants. Some commentators are sceptical about rush to blame new arrivals.
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>> IF and it is still if they were migrants. Some commentators are sceptical about rush
>> to blame new arrivals.
>>
Somewhat of a coincidence then?
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>> Somewhat of a coincidence then?
Coincidence of timing or coincidence for those with a bee in their bonnet about refugees?
As I've said before (apparent) correlation is not the same as causation.
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New arrivals or old(er) arrivals?
Same result, apparently, if reports only now emerging (five days after the alleged attacks) are to be believed.
Even The Guardian is reporting this story.
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks
Last edited by: Roger. on Tue 5 Jan 16 at 19:07
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"Even The Guardian is reporting this story."
I saw the story first a couple of days ago in the Mail online, but it now seems to have reached the slower papers - so there may be some truth in it. The realists among us cannot be truly surprised by this - it's a cultural thing innit - not a race thing.
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>> Even The Guardian is reporting this story.
>>
>> www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks
There's not much doubt about what happened. My point was to challenge the link to recent arrivals which seems to be being exploited by the German right wing without any supporting evidence.
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I'm seeing Angela Merkel making some sort of link to the immigrants. I'd like to think she has at least some evidence.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35259224
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>> I'm seeing Angela Merkel making some sort of link to the immigrants. I'd like to
>> think she has at least some evidence.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35259224
She's said that foreigners convicted of involvement should be deported. As you might expect.
Some way though from proof that offenders are wholly/mainly new migrants or asylum seekers.
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"Some way though from proof that offenders are wholly/mainly new migrants or asylum seekers."
I have stated before that the 'new/old' thing is a red-herring. New immigrants will become old immigrants, and there will be a lot of them - haven't you been able to work that out yet?
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>> I have stated before that the 'new/old' thing is a red-herring.
Migrants thread was re-started with assertion that Angela Merkel's decisions on letting migrants in en masse have caused more strife. A clear implication that the organized criminals in Cologne on NYE were new arrivals and that if they'd been kept out it wouldn't have happened.
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"Of the 31 suspects whose names are known, 18 have asylum seeker status," interior ministry spokesman Tobias Plate told reporters on Friday, citing federal police figures.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35261359
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>> >> IF and it is still if they were migrants. Some commentators are sceptical about
>> rush
>> >> to blame new arrivals.
>> >>
>>
>> Somewhat of a coincidence then?
From what I heard they are long established illegals who have been in germany for a number of years pick pocketing and generally tea leaving in tourist areas. Bit of a step-up this tho.
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>> From what I heard they are long established illegals who have been in germany for a number of years pick pocketing and generally tea leaving in tourist areas.
Sounds quite likely. People who have been in Europe long enough to pick up new bad attitudes in addition to the ones they had to start with - sexually frustrated, bitter, ignorant people from a repellently misogynistic culture and 'religion'.
Recent arrivals are trying to find their feet and somewhere to live. They don't have time for mischief just yet.
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"Some commentators are sceptical about rush to blame new arrivals."
New arrivals ...... old arrivals ....... that's a red herring; one day, new arrivals will be old arrivals - and there will be a lot of them!
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>>Oh dear Mutti, what have you done?
Don't blame me - I'm a Kipper, and anyway, it couldn't possibly have been Muslims because they don't drink alcohol.
But seriously - quite frightening for all the women involved.
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>> But seriously - quite frightening for all the women involved.
>>
AC has covered it nicely: "sexually frustrated, bitter, ignorant people from a repellently misogynistic culture and 'religion' ".
It annoys the hell out of me that those who so openly flout our equality laws and are willing to treat 50% of the population so badly, (and other laws) are given such a free reign by some who wilfully will not see the wood for the trees (or can do, but choose to ignore it).
I genuinely don't 'get it'.
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>> those who so openly flout our equality laws and
And yet, allowances have to be made for new arrivals who really don't know the ropes.
The real problem seems to be that there is no system for instructing or educating such people. Indeed in typical capitalist, laissez-faire fashion, they are allowed to form spontaneously a sort of disaffected 'community' cut off from all but the most basic social assistance. I don't suppose this country is significantly worse than others (apart from Germany which is an example to us all), but I doubt that it's much better. A bit worse really, or so my old immigrant buddies informed me. But they were prejudiced of course.
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'bout time the people in this country grew up.
Try moving from the London Suburbs or some other such place to the rural wilds and not so wilds many miles from 'home' and set up a new life. Some will accept you and many more will not. Many of the 'Nots' will appear to you to accept you, but that is not the case deep down. Basically your perceived acceptance of their acceptance means that they are getting something for free from you whether you realise it or not. And whilst you are 'giving' then all will seem tickety boo.
So there then, that is Brits on Brits. If we cannot be accepted by our 'own' 2-300 miles from our original home base then WFChance have the likes of Arabs and Eastern European nasty folk got? Basically if you didn't go to school there you'll never be 'in'.
Not 100% true, but a ruddy good benchmark.
Although I find the 'Migrant crisis' all very very sad I have no wish to have any of them here no matter what, because ultimately I will end up paying for the privilege whether it be directly, or in diminished wages/hourly rate or indeed in some circumstances unemployment and it is quite difficult enough managing one's own future in an increasingly uncertain world let alone inviting trouble.
We can't manage our own baggy trousered, non working grunting disaffected youth let alone courting additional baggage.
I'll await the flack, but bear this in your records for the future co's it will all come home to roost, although I believe that the rot is already too far set in.
Oh! and of course the next thing is we'll be paying to rebuild Syria et al.
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>> So there then, that is Brits on Brits. If we cannot be accepted by our
>> 'own' 2-300 miles from our original home base
Ah, that explains much.
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My parents joined the 'white exodus' from Bradford 45 years ago, and I have continued moving in a NW direction ever since. Despite living in a nice small market town these past 15, a few people, born & bred here, still do not accept incomers. They are the most narrow minded, racist bigots I have ever had the misfortune to meet, and avoid them like the plague in local pubs.
Talking of integration, three friends of mine are a long serving paramedic and two are firemen. All living near me, but working in Bradford. Sadly, they tell me that integration was better twenty years ago than it is now. And my own professional experience, working in W Yorks for 25 years, reflects this.
It doesn't augur well for the future. That really saddens me.
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>> Try moving from the London Suburbs or some other such place to the rural wilds
>> and not so wilds many miles from 'home' and set up a new life. Some
>> will accept you and many more will not. Many of the 'Nots' will appear to
>> you to accept you, but that is not the case deep down. Basically your perceived
>> acceptance of their acceptance means that they are getting something for free from you whether
>> you realise it or not. And whilst you are 'giving' then all will seem tickety
>> boo.
That is certainly true of a few where I live. Friendly until you publicly disagree about some local issue, then it's "you haven't been here five minutes" if they speak to you at all. And that's after 23 years here. Our real friends, with a only a couple of exceptions, are all other incomers.
I can't begin to imagine what it would be like for someone of a different colour. Well I can actually. The ex-Africa Asians who had the local shop for the first 10 years we were here actually had one of the lifelong locals go in just after they took over to say "we don't want your sort here and I won't be coming in here again".
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>>one of the lifelong locals go in just after they took over to say "we don't want your sort here and I won't be coming in here again".
Nice lifelong local. One hopes the life won't continue to be much longer. Scumbag.
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>> It annoys the hell out of me that those who so openly flout our equality
>> laws and are willing to treat 50% of the population so badly, (and other laws)
If that's what actually happened it might annoy me too. Isn't the truth though much more nuanced?
I've currently got a very bright female trainee working with me. Half Yemeni, half Somali - describes herself as part pirate, part terrorist. Wears the headscarf and nips off to do prayers twice a day. She speaks of a social structure where new Mums are supported and don't suffer depression on their own. Women abandoned by their husbands are similarly helped; and the men brought to account too.
Yemi, who sat opposite me for six yeas in London told a similar tale. She had a key role in administering the mosque and went to Mecca on her own - leaving her husband to kep house for a fortnight.
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"She speaks of a social structure ...."
Sounds marvellous - can't think why anyone would want to leave all that to come to this hell-hole.
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>> Sounds marvellous - can't think why anyone would want to leave all that to come
>> to this hell-hole.
For the benefit of those who wilfully misunderstand the community spoken of is that she lives in now in UK.
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>For the benefit of those who wilfully misunderstand the community spoken of is that she lives in now in UK.
The same 'community' that still subjects almost half of their female children to genital mutilation?*
*Morison, Linda A.; Dirir, Ahmed; Elmi, Sada; Warsame, Jama; Dirir, Shamis (2004). "How Experiences and Attitudes Relating to Female Circumcision Vary According to Age on Arrival in Britain: A Study Among Young Somalis in London". Ethnicity & Health 9 (1): 75–100.
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"I've currently got a very bright female trainee working with me. Half Yemeni, half Somali - describes herself as part pirate, part terrorist." But if we described her as that, someone would be throwing his toys out of the pram with us!!
"...nips off to do prayers twice a day." I had a tech guy on a mobile team who did that, unfortunately it wasn't "nips off" - he said he had to go to a specific type of mosque and that was sometimes an hour away. Other team members were less than impressed. Due to the nature of the work is was impractical to make up the time elsewhere.
Also had a bloke working for me in SA who had to do the prayers every Friday morning, took the whole morning. I asked him to make up the time which he did once. He was once foolish enough to answer the phone during Friday morning and I'm told appeared to be in his garden with the noisy dog. Unless dogs are allowed in mosques, and mosques have noisy birds in the background.
In neither case did I feel able to challenge them, I was too scared of being un-PC, if the truth be known.
Just to put this in perspective though, my examples above are from when I worked in a London bank in a very multi-cultural environment and mostly my experiences with all those I worked with were very positive and I enjoyed it there.
EDIT: I also misunderstood your ambiguous post in the same way but have removed my comment about it. Nothing wilful about it, it was just badly written...
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 5 Jan 16 at 21:29
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I'd have to dig out my notes from the "cultural diversity training" I did about 18 months ago, but I seem to recall one of the specific examples was an employee asking for time off to go to a mosque. And I'm pretty sure the answer was the employer was absolutely entitled to say no, you can't.
Maybe I misremembered.
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Smokie,
It was crystal clear (from the snipquote) that I was replying to WP's comment which was UK focussed. As to the part pirate thing surely you get the concept of self deprecating humour. I can describe myself as a tight Yorkshireman; a stranger doing so would give offence.
Also had the Friday prayers thing when I worked in London. But then we also had Catholics going off to Mass on certain high days and Jews who needed to be home by nightfall on Friday. We managed it by reasonable adjustments. No compunction in coming down on lead swingers.
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>> If that's what actually happened it might annoy me too. Isn't the truth though much
>> more nuanced?
Two sides of the story and all that.
Now, are you willing to agree that there are some on the side of the story I've mentioned?...or is your telescope on the wrong eye?
.... and if you are willing to concede that there are some.. do you agree that ignoring their worst traits is wrong?.... or do you think we should pander to them, let them ignore the hard fought for laws that aim to ensure a level playing field for: women, gay people, animals, etc.
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Anybody who lives in the UK should abide by UK laws. Living in the UK is not compulsory.
Don't care who or what, if you don't like it, don't come.
Just so long as we don't assume that the bad people and the foreign people are the same people and that legislation for one is legislation for all.
And I don't know if the truth is nuanced or not. I'm not even entirely sure what a nuanced truth is anyway - the truth always seems a bit of a binary thing to me.
Its conceptually easy; find them, capture them, try them, take appropriate action. I don't need to know their nationality to believe in that.
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>> Its conceptually easy; find them, capture them, try them, take appropriate action. I don't need to know their nationality to believe in that.
Agree. However doing what you suggest isn't going to happen very easily. We have a seriously depleted Police Service whilst we send £Millions upon £Millions abroad. And if your method works then I'm afraid that if found guilty then deportation is the ONLY answer regardless of the crime.
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>> I'm afraid that if found guilty then deportation is the ONLY answer regardless of the crime.
Anyone in the UK on a visa should be dropped kicked across the border if they commit a significant crime - i.e. NOT speeding for example. Totally agree.
Here , for example; if someone on a visa, or indeed without a visa but not a resident, lights a fire in the forest and it causes any damage, they are instantly deported. Although if it was significant damage they will be imprisoned and then deported.
However, the Chileans are aware that the foreign offenders are a small part of the problem and the sanctions against a Chilean or a Resident doing it are at least as bad and potentially worse.
Seems fair to me.
However, we [they / anybody ]should not assume, believe or imply that being foreign means you will or are more likely to commit a crime or that being British means you will not.
That's the bit which always goes wrong for me; some clown starts singling out foreigner offenders / slackers / wasters rather than acknowledging that our target is ALL offenders / slackers / wasters and we have a full range.
WASPs beat their wives too. I've no idea how the proportions compare, but its hardly limited to one religion or culture.
>We have a seriously depleted Police Service whilst we send £Millions upon £Millions abroad
Perhaps. But that is a UK political decision. Campaign about it and if the majority agree....
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>> Just so long as we don't assume that the bad people and the foreign people
>> are the same people and that legislation for one is legislation for all.
Don't have a problem with that.
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>> Two sides of the story and all that.
>>
>> Now, are you willing to agree that there are some on the side of the
>> story I've mentioned?...or is your telescope on the wrong eye?
Of course there are some folks pushing the margins of our tolerance. It's the sweeping generalisations (treat their women like cattle or dogs for example) that get my goat.
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>> Of course there are some folks pushing the margins of our tolerance. It's the sweeping
>> generalisations (treat their women like cattle or dogs for example) that get my goat.
>>
I think we are nearly there.
I don't think all of them treat their women like cattle or dogs, it is most probable that the majority of them don't.... the ones that do, I think are scum and we should be openly castigating and/or prosecuting, not looking to the floor and pretending it doesn't happen, when it does.
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>It's the sweeping generalisations (treat their women like cattle or dogs for example) that get my goat.
OK.
The same study I quoted above found that 18% of the females in the study and 43% of the males still intended to have their own daughters circumcised! In London for Glub's sake!
Meanwhile, you lefties ignore any uncomfortable problems in pursuit of your PC agenda and dismiss them as 'sweeping generalisations'.
Take the blinkers off. It might scare you but you'll learn a lot.
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Who on the left is ignoring FGM?
It's a disgusting practice but heavily embedded in culture in parts of (mainly) Africa. Although mentioned in certain haditha there's no requirement or it in the Quran and it is thought to long predate the spread of Islam into those regions. Cultural prevalence doesn't excuse but you cannot control people's ideas.
The best hope for elimination is in education of the young.
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"The best hope for elimination is in education of the young. "
Fine - but isn't that integration .......... not multiculturalism as advocated by the left.
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Well, they've got 4 weeks to come up with the solution.
New Year's Eve was only one night, there is Carnival starting Thursday 4th February through to Tuesday 9th. Thursday 4th is when all women go out unescorted for the afternoon/evening to celebrate Weiberfastnacht.
There is usually a crowd of around 3million in the city for the Rosenmontag celebrations.
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Natural selection at work! Raving loon.
tinyurl.com/hg4xamw Telegraph
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>>Natural selection at work! Raving loon.
'Aktion T4' supporter, Rog?
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"Aktion T4"
I just took my wife up to see the GP after a series of headaches and blood-tests. She came out muttering something about 'T4' - this does not look good.
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>> She came out muttering something about 'T4' - this does not look good.
Diesel I presume.
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>>Diesel I presume. <<
...and you blokes wonder how you get it so wrong.
T4 is a blood test for thyroid function, even I know that:)
Pat
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> ...and you blokes wonder how you get it so wrong.
Considering one of my goylfriends suffers from Grave's dis-ease, and another one suffers from Hypothyroid, I do know about T4. I was just trying to be, um, funny :)
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"I was just trying to be, um, funny :)"
That's alright, hound, Pat gets the Bounty Bar, you get the Spillers Shape ;-)
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Thank you Haywain. Dogs prefer Spillers Shapes: www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/218339
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How can you expect integration when there are loads of immigrants arriving in a country? It then becomes multiculturalism in my opinion.
Remember the riots in Bradford when immigrants took over.The white population moved away or started to build mental walls to stop a different culture.
Politicians in general will call it racism.maybe it is.People from to different cultures just don't get on in my opinion.
Look at our countries history we didn't intergrate our governments took over when foreign countries where invaded.
It would help if we stop these people moving in the first place due to poverty and wars in my opinion.
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>> Although mentioned in certain haditha there's no requirement or it in the Quran and it is thought to long predate the spread of Islam into those regions.
Indeed. FGM isn't really a Muslim thing at all. Its purpose is clear enough: to deprive young women of any pleasure in the sexual act, thereby keeping the Big Man's numerous wives on the straight and narrow. Makes the genealogy a bit more reliable.
It's a beastly practice, carried out and much favoured by women who have already been subjected to it, dog-in-the-manger style. As in other cultures, women helplessly collude in their own oppression. What a bunch of damn savages we are.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 7 Jan 16 at 14:26
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"What a bunch of damn savages we are."
You are speaking on behalf of ........ ?
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>> You are speaking on behalf of ........ ?
Human beings, both sexes.
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>> Its purpose is clear enough: to deprive young women of any pleasure in the sexual act, thereby keeping the Big Man's numerous wives on the straight and narrow. Makes the genealogy a bit more reliable.
FGM remains widespread in Africa to this day. It is carried out ceremonially but often under execrable conditions of hygiene, and can be very extreme. Many women suffer from long-lasting nasty infections caught from the process. The poor darlings have been told it will make them real Muslims, and many seem to believe it. It's very sad for all concerned, mutilating everyone's sexuality, men's included, as well as women's parts.
No non-savage species would stand for it.
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The really sad thing is that thousands of young girls are still being subjected to this barbaric practice in the UK because the people who are in a position to stop it are too damn scared to do anything about it. There has only been one (unsuccessful) prosecution for FGM despite it being made illegal during Mrs T's second term.
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I'm still fairly convinced that these Savages have no place here, but of course I've said it all before.
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What t*** took exception to that? Or perhaps you are one of them.
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>> I'm still fairly convinced that these Savages have no place here, but of course I've said it all before.
This country doesn't refuse admission to people on grounds of their 'traditional practices'. The assumption is that anyone legally or semi-legally here has the same rights as everyone else. If they misbehave when here, the law must try to deal with them.
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>> This country doesn't refuse admission to people on grounds of their 'traditional practices'. The assumption
>> is that anyone legally or semi-legally here has the same rights as everyone else. If
>> they misbehave when here, the law must try to deal with them.
That's the thin end of an interesting discussion and a bit of drift no doubt.
At one extreme is the assumption that all people are good unless and until they prove otherwise. At the other is the idea that there are good people and bad people and you should assess people be selective about how you deal with them. Naive 'PC-ness' is at one end of the scale, and 'pragmatism' with all its approximations and unfairness, is at the other.
Reality is a mixture of the two approaches. And when a trusting approach results in problems, policy soon moves towards the other pole - officially or unofficially.
Applied to the migrant topic, I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea that while new arrivals should be given every reasonable opportunity to establish themselves, they should also expect that it will take some time to build up the same 'credit' in a society as accrues to those who have lived there all their lives without getting into trouble.
That is how I would expect to be looked on were I to move to another country. It is inevitable that whatever screening takes place will result in some mistakes, and a period of probation is not an unreasonable idea.
In other words, there is nothing wrong with a country putting its own citizens first. That is the first duty of the state.
All of that changes of course for citizens of the other 27 countries in the EU when we buy into the USE. Nothing wrong with that - but it does imply a lot of change and harmonisation from where we are now. Much more than we have seen so far.
As far as the rest of the world is concerned, let us be good world citizens - but on our terms please, in these dangerous times. Whether or not we believe that events in Germany are a consequence of Mutti's trusting approach, she must be wondering whether she should have been more thoughtful about her initial position.
What we now have is the swing of the pendulum, with borders being closed, the collapse of Schengen, and a rush by migrants to get to their country of choice while they still can. A bit of a mess, that could get worse before it gets better.
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>> I'm still fairly convinced that these Savages have no place here, but of course I've
>> said it all before.
From what you say, that what the locals think of you.
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Kevin,
I'm not looking for discussion not argument but I'm not clear how, provided there is proof, 'being too damn scared' is an issue. Unlike some practices - use of Sharia law in civil matters for example - nobody's going to try and say there are arguments in favour. Not even for the least mutilating forms of 'female circumcision'.
Surely the problem is the practical one of evidence gathering. As it would be if the practice of removal of male foreskins were to be outlawed.
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>Who on the left is ignoring FGM?
You are. You responded to Wp's post about equality with a flippant "If that's what actually happened it might annoy me too. Isn't the truth though much more nuanced?" You then tried to paint a picture that all is fine and dandy in the Somali/Yemeni community in the UK.
When I supplied a reference to a study that showed that there are huge, huge, huge problems with the treatment of females in that same community what did you do? You ignored it until I played the leftie card.
>The best hope for elimination is in education of the young.
What!?.. Are you serious? You're all for the prosecution of butt fondling-celebrities for events that occured 30 years ago but you think that education of those who are probably already victims is our best 'hope' to stop it?
The best hope for elimination is to treat it for what it is, aggravated sexual abuse of a child with GBH.
I'll reply to your latest post in a while. Dinner calls.
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I was looking for discussion but clearly you're still in argument mode.
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It does seem seem to be the story that evidence is the problem.
e.g. goo.gl/c2RYZa (Huff Post)
I still don't get it. If a child is found covered in bruises, the parent can expect to be held to account for it.
What happens when a health professional sees a mutilated child? That doesn't happen by tripping up.
Perhaps the parents of these children find sympathetic doctors.
I'm sure I could come up with something to catch the parents who allow this. Why hasn't it happened?
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>> It does seem seem to be the story that evidence is the problem.
>>
>> e.g. goo.gl/c2RYZa (Huff Post)
It took the jury half an hour to acquit. Either the case was badly chosen or the CPS were utterly incompetent.
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I'm with Manatee here, I don't get it.
So there's teh odd instance where there wasn't proof, or somebody cocked up process, but how can most of them get past?
I remember the questions I was asked the third time in a month I took one of mine down to A&E with bangs and bruises when she was learning to ski.
So how can doctors be noticing signs of mutilation and nothing happening? The penalties for a parent, a doctor or a relative being involved should be huge and horrendous. The child should be able to sue for every penny the parent has, we should be raining down on this behaviour like a s*** storm from hell.
There is no excuse. For the perpetrators there is no understanding or mitigation. The victims may need education, support and care, the perpetrators need nailing to a wall.
And any comments around culture, lack of sophistication and understanding are *perhaps* relevant to punishment. They are not relevant to prosecution.
This is not race or colour related. Whoever you are, whatever the reason, there should be severe punishment and penalty.
And protecting, hiding or keeping quiet should come under which ever of aiding, abetting, concealing or perverting seems the most appropriate. It should NOT come under understanding and tolerance.
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>I was looking for discussion but clearly you're still in argument mode.
Whatever.
It's your ball and you're going home, right?
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>> It's your ball and you're going home, right?
Touched as I am to be your example of the left, I was hoping for something more concrete:-)
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 7 Jan 16 at 21:27
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>Touched as I am to be your example of the left, I was hoping for something more concrete:-)
Like what Bromp?
You have deliberately avoided responding to anything that disproves the rosy image that you tried to portray of the treatment of females in the Somali/Yemeni community. The nationalities that you introduced to the thread remember?
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>> You have deliberately avoided responding to anything that disproves the rosy image that you tried
>> to portray of the treatment of females in the Somali/Yemeni community
I referenced a conversation with a colleague of the Muslim faith about how extended families and the mosque support new mothers and abandoned wives. I thought it interesting because it challenged stereotypes. She happens to be part Somali and has a self deprecating anecdote about her origins.
No approval of the wider Somali community (whatever that may be) was intended.
I've responded several times saying the practice is disgusting and should be dealt with. IMO dealing involves education as well as 'making examples'.
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>> >Who on the left is ignoring FGM?
>>
>> You are.
No I'm not.
Westpig posted what looked like the usual schizzle that passes for consensus here about migrants and the NYE troubles in Cologne. Challenged on that he moved (05/01 20:16) to:
It annoys the hell out of me that those who so openly flout our equality laws and are willing to treat 50% of the population so badly, (and other laws) are given such a free reign by some who wilfully will not see the wood for the trees (or can do, but choose to ignore it).
Rightly or wrongly I took that as a generalisation about Islam and other cultures and suggested, exemplified by conversation with a colleague, that the reality about treatment of women was more nuanced. No flippancy was intended. Neither was it specifically about the Somali/Yemeni community - I think the young woman concerned is actually a much more complex ethnic mix than her flip comment about pirates & terrorists implied.
I don't doubt there's a problem in some groups in the Somali community with FGM but it has no relevance to my point until you decided to, in your own words, play the leftie (and whataboutery) card.
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>> Rightly or wrongly I took that as a generalisation about Islam and other cultures and
>> suggested, exemplified by conversation with a colleague, that the reality about treatment of women was
>> more nuanced.
Yes, in this instance I was referring mainly to those within Islam who seem to live charmed lives, because no one challenges them. My thoughts could easily apply to anyone, from any background, who has a system of circumventing the decent norms or laws that everyone else seems to comply with alright.
I have said many, many times that I think most people in the world are decent folk. I believe that.. and my limited trips to places abroad, inc brief forays in Africa and the Middle East have confirmed that...and that would include followers of Islam, why wouldn't it?
I refer to those who seem unchallenged.... mostly I have to say, by people like you, the PC brigade, who constantly cover for them... or try to argue that my (and others) dissent encompasses all, when in fact it just covers the ones that take the 'p'.... and there's a noticeable minority that take the 'p'.
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"Looks like the civil unrest is starting."
According to the Telegraph, the police are reporting similar problems of sexual harassment in Helsinki too. I am beginning to realise why many woman appear to choose/prefer to wear the burka. If the civil service is stuffed with lefties like Brompt then, I'm afraid, we're all stuffed!
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>>You're all for the prosecution of butt fondling-celebrities for events that occured 30 years ago
Mmm Bromp, your stance does seem to be a bit out of balance.
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>> Mmm Bromp, your stance does seem to be a bit out of balance.
I'm all for prosecution in FGM cases too. If you prosecute the wrong ones though and get acquittals you're no further forward.
Same for some butt fondlings.....
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>> >> Mmm Bromp, your stance does seem to be a bit out of balance.
>>
>> I'm all for prosecution in FGM cases too. If you prosecute the wrong ones though
>> and get acquittals you're no further forward.
>>
>> Same for some butt fondlings.....
I dont see the analogy. Butt fondling is one word against another - little evidence. FGM has physical evidence.
FGM is quite rightly, illegal in the UK, anyone living here who does it, or is involved in it should be prosecuted and it should be prevented.
What happens abroad, is up to them, none of our business.
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Migration - t'other way - Roger.
