My father in law's house has an attached garage (metal up and over door) with a wooden door into the house. The hall gets very cold in winter and I intend insulating this for him this year. One of my jobs to do before winter. I am after recommendations/advice.
I did not check temperatures inside garage last winter and compare to door and wall in the hallway.
My thoughts are:
1. Insulate the up and over door for starters - a lot of heat must be lost through that.
2. Insulate the back of the wooden door between garage/hallway. I've not actually checked construction of the door so I don't know if it's solid wood.
When it gets a bit colder I was also going to check the temperature of the garage/hall wall on either side. But insulating that will be tricky with the shelving in place.
And if I start by insulating the door - any tips on what to use?
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Start with the roof. Most heat is lost there.
If you cannot seal round the door/pillars gap, you will lose lots of heat.
Insulate door/house wall.
Trying to insulate any room/building with a solid floor is a lost cause, especially if air leaks..
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When was the house built guv'nor?
I'd be inclined to keep the cold out of the hall rather than trying to insulate the garage.
The wooden door sounds suspect. What wood would it be constructed from I wonder?
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Yup I would be replacing the door with a double lazed insulated UVPC type.
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I picked up a cheapy gadget you point at things and it tells you the temperature when we were trying to work out the coldest bits in the house. It meant you could see, for example, that one corner of the ceiling was colder than another for whatever reason and take it from there. At least it shows you where most of the heat is being lost, if you need to know that.
I also used it to see if my rads were getting to heat, and if the wood burner flue was in range, that kind of a game.
Oh, it was this one.
www.maplin.co.uk/p/pocket-infrared-thermometer-n19fr
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 15 Sep 15 at 07:55
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You may need to consider building regulations, my house has an integral garage which is internally skinned with plasterboard over plywood and has a fire rated door to the house. I have fitted an insulated sectional door which is airtight, a steel door will be difficult to insulate properly and any other work will be a waste with the door acting as a radiator for the local area and letting cold air in and the garage should also have high and low level ventilation built in. I would concentrate on the house front door initially and agree with Dog and Zero.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 15 Sep 15 at 08:37
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A~mazing the price of these 'ere gadgets, ten or so years ago only the ex spurts would have able to afford them.
I 'picked up' a moisture meter on Amazon recently for about 12 sovs, it's made in The Fatherland, so comes with the obligatory vorsprung durch techniks.
I tested all the walls in this 200 year-old gaff, and they were surprisingly okay (unlike the neighbs!!)
I checked some of the logs in my wood store and I couldn't get any reading at all, at all. Funny I thought, woss going on 'ere then? Turns out they are bone dry b'cos the logstore faces South :)
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12 sovs? That's nearly £2500, Dog. I don't call that cheap.
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>>12 sovs? That's nearly £2500, Dog. I don't call that cheap.
Erm, I'm thinking of guineas Cc. Sovs comes from a term used by Arthur Daley in Minder, I believe.
So how much is a sov then?
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>> So how much is a sov then?
At a rough guess, I'd go with nearly £2500 divided by twelve...
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>> At a rough guess, I'd go with nearly £2500 divided by twelve...
^_^
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A coincidence. I have returned from being sent for milk. On browsing the " man isles" of the nearby ALDI I found that the have both moisture meters at £13 and remote thermometers at £15. You will be pleased to know that the milk is in the fridge and calm has been restored.:-)
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>> Yup I would be replacing the door with a double lazed insulated UVPC type.
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Seconded.
When I moved into my house there was a feeble wooden door from a main room into a corridor and utility area.
By Christ the cold could be felt from there, because at the end of the corridor/utility bit is a conservatory (God knows why, it's in the wrong place) and there's no radiators in there apart from a small one in a downstairs loo.
We swapped the feeble wooden door for a good quality uPVC one (mainly for better security) and it helped greatly with the cold angle.
I'm also going to put a big thick curtain there as well when I get around to it, as the big thick ones I put in the larger than normal lounge work really well and I resent wasting my money on the expensive oil.
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>> I'd be inclined to keep the cold out of the hall rather than trying to insulate the garage.
That is what I am trying to do. But if say doing something with the metal garage door helps then I'd do something with that too.
I've got a digital thermometer so plan on checking temperature of the wall inside/outside. The roof of the garage won't be insulated - well I don't think it is.
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>> Yup I would be replacing the door with a double lazed insulated UVPC type.
Why would you put a double glazed door in the hall to get into your garage??? I'd rather not see inside the garage from the hallway myself.
Now the front door is a double glazed UPV door.
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>> >> Yup I would be replacing the door with a double lazed insulated UVPC type.
>>
>>
>> Why would you put a double glazed door in the hall to get into your
>> garage??? I'd rather not see inside the garage from the hallway myself.
light, but hey a full UVPC door will do
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 15 Sep 15 at 12:21
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>> Why would you put a double glazed door in the hall to get into your
>> garage???
Security for one, the up and over metal garage doors are a piece of pie to break in to... then to keep the house warm as a double glazed uPVC door is the most effective way of achieving that.
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One of these is what you want. www.rockdoor.com/ Bit pricey but are an excellent door.
I have the Ultimate Kentucky.
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I think you will find that the door between a garage and the house must be a fire rated door.
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I wasn't planning on changing the door. I was looking to insulate the door on the garage side.
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>> I think you will find that the door between a garage and the house must
>> be a fire rated door.
Doesn't also have to have an automatic closer?
There is little point in insulating the garage door unless you want the garage itself to be warmer. And with a metal door, and the gaps all around, that isn't likely to be successful without replacement.
The connecting door is target 1. The shared wall may be an issue, thermal wallpaper can help with that.
But also look up - what is happening at ceiling level? Is cold from the garage able to find itself into a roof space and then back down the other side of the dividing wall into the living space?
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The door is not an auto closer - so I assume that's not mandatory. The house is less than 20 years old.
>> The connecting door is target 1.
My thoughts too. I only considered the garage door itself as an additional thing to insulate is because it gets VERY cold in the garage in winter. And the colder the garage, the bigger the impact on the connecting door.
I also know the connecting wall may also be an issue but you'd assume the insulation is the same as the part of the wall above the garage.
There is no way for air from the garage roof space to get into the house. This is a normal house with the attached garage having a tiled roof which extends half way up the side of the remainder of the shared wall. There's not any draughts coming from the garage to my knowledge.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 15 Sep 15 at 13:15
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In which case the connecting door should make a quite a difference.
The only other thing is that if they go to the garage a lot in the winter - i.e. the freezer is out there, then maybe it is worth trying to warm it up.
If they use it as a garage and so want the large access, then all you can do is change the door. If not, then you can consider blocking off the big doorway. You don't need to do it permanently or expensively.
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If it's a modern freezer and we have a cold winter, the freezer may stop working.
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>>If it's a modern freezer and we have a cold winter, the freezer may stop working.
Ah! - I wondered why the small counter-top freezer I've just bought to keep Mutley's grub in says "Not suitable for use in a garage".
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>> a cold winter, the freezer may stop working.
Will it just start working again as the weather warms up?
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>>I only considered the garage door itself as an additional thing to insulate is because it gets VERY cold in the garage in winter
The hall shouldn't be any colder than any other room in the house - if the external wall has a cavity, and the door is an external-type door. Might be worth buying one of those remote thermometers and having a play with that.
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>> The only other thing is that if they go to the garage a lot in the winter - i.e. the freezer is out >> there, then maybe it is worth trying to warm it up.
There is a fridge freezer in there. And so the door is used.
>> If they use it as a garage and so want the large access, then all you can do is change the door.
My father in law no longer has a car and never kept it in there anyway. But very occasionally the garage door is opened I think. So I think I could block it off - question is how that's not permanent and doesn't cost too much.
>> The hall shouldn't be any colder than any other room in the house - if the external wall has a
>> cavity, and the door is an external-type door.
The wooden door is not the same as the other wooden doors. It's heavier/more solid for starters with 5 lever mortice lock. But I'm not sure I'd call it an external type door - but then it isn't external.
I agree the hall shouldn't be colder but it is. Which is why I'll be using my digital thermometer when it gets a bit colder to check temperature differences.
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>>So I think I could block it off - question is how that's not permanent and doesn't cost too much.
Get that expanding, brown/yellow colour squirty foam and go round the garage door. That's to stop rain, drafts, animals and stuff.
Put quick and dirty 2x2 wooden frame across floor, up wall and across ceiling. Stuff in cheap insulation in between and put up plaster board.
Not permanent, not expensive and however much its not high quality, it works and can be removed reasonably easily.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 15 Sep 15 at 14:49
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You could build a temporary wall inside the big garage door with insulation boards, but that would leave the roof.
You either need to thermally isolate the garage from the house or include it and heat it.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 15 Sep 15 at 15:10
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>> You could build a temporary wall inside the big garage door with insulation boards, but
>> that would leave the roof.
You could fill the garage with polystyrene beads
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>>You could fill the garage with polystyrene beads
Bubble wrap works. I forgot my jumper today and it's cold in the office with no heating yet turned on, so I hauled over a huge chunk of bubble wrap I had lying about and sat under it. Toasty as quick as you like.
Had a little slightly muffled explaining to do when a visitor arrived but hey, what you going to do?
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>> what you going to do?
>>
Keep a spare jumper at the office?
;-)
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I do normally. And one in the car. But today it all went wrong.
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Well in that case surely the tartan blanket off the back seat would have done the trick.
;-)
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>> Bubble wrap works.
If you need cheap bubble wrap for packaging, then large rolls can be bought at DIY outlets in the greenhouse section. It's used to insulate greenhouses.
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>> But I'm not sure I'd call it an external type door - but then it isn't external.
- - > it gets VERY cold in the garage in winter
;-)
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When I was 'Old Billing' it never ceased to amaze me the amount of good quality front doors people would have... but then the rear door or another access door (e.g. from a garage) that would be of a considerably less quality than the front door.
Someone wanting to break in would prefer privacy to some extent... which you're less likely to get at the front door... and the door's/ windows that were most private were the easiest to break in to.
Up and over garage doors are generally stupidly easy to break in to, then you can drop them down again and carry on breaking in to your heart's content.
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If the door from the hall is 44mm thick and heavy, it will, most likely be a half hour fire door - it should be under the Building Regulations.
I'm not sure a PVC door will give the half hour.
A steel one with a fire resistant insulating core should meet the fire regulations and should improve the heat loss.
In a house of this age, the insulative properties of the garage/hall wall SHOULD be the same as the other external walls: ie it should be a cavity wall, and may have some insulation in the cavity, or may have a lightweight insulating block inner leaf.
If there is a cavity, it could be filled with Rockwool or one of the blown glass fibre, or polystyrene products.
If you want to raise the temperature of the garage there are three points to explore.
1. The garage door has been covered above.
2. The roof is a main heat loss, and it depends if it is a flat or pitched roof. Pitched roof is easy - rolls of insulating quilt on top of the ceiling - but ensure the space above is ventilated, since condensation can occur in the now colder roof.
The flat roof is more difficult, since either insulation between the joists or under the ceiling results in a cold roor that is difficult to ventilate. Best solution is a "warm" roof, with insulation boards on the top, with a ballast to hold it down.
3. A solid outer wall will now be the major heat loss. You can add an internal stud wall, with insulation between the studs, or there are insulation/plasterboard laminates that can be fixed directly to the wall.
It should be appreciated that insulation doesn't make spaces warmer, it just makes the transfer of heat slower.
The garage will still get cold - not as cold, since some heat will transfer from the hall - heating the garage will reduce further the heat loss from the hall, and raise the temperature there, but will cost.
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Surely the first thing is to decide which bit you want to insulate - the door from the house to the garage, or the garage door. No point in doing both - do you want a warm garage for housing your classic car or tractor, or do you not care if the garage is cold but don't want to leak house heat into it?
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Having read some of the replies, I am thinking the garage door should be done simply because if I can stop heat loss from the house to the garage to a greater extent that today, the garage will get even colder in winter. And a colder garage might stop the fridge freezer from working. Also overtime you open the connecting door you're going to lose a lot of heat.
I'll have to take a closer look at the garage door. I know you can buy insulation panels for the back of the garage door but Mark's frame with insultation/plaster board is probably a better solution.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 15 Sep 15 at 17:17
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No-one has mentioned the garage floor. It almost certainly is not insulated underneath and will always be cold in Winter. Closing all the gaps around the metal door is the most cost effective solution but very far from perfect.
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>> No-one has mentioned the garage floor.
So what would you do to the floor? An insulating layer of some sort - but what?
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>> And a
>> colder garage might stop the fridge freezer from working.
So it is often said. I don't really see that, nor why it should matter. If the garage is colder anyway then the freezer would not have to work so hard.
One of ours is in a detached draughty wooden shed, and seems to work all right. In freezing weather it doesn't matter if the freezer stops working.
Also every time you open the connecting
>> door you're going to lose a lot of heat.
>>
That would be an argument for putting a porch round every external door. You surely use the back door much more than the door into the garage?
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>> That would be an argument for putting a porch round every external door. You surely use the
>> back door much more than the door into the garage?
The only back door in this property is via the garage. There is a patio door (double glazed) too. But main entry to rear garden is via the door in the garage.
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<< So it is often said. I don't really see that, nor why it should matter. If the garage is colder anyway then the freezer would not have to work so hard.
One of ours is in a detached draughty wooden shed, and seems to work all right. In freezing weather it doesn't matter if the freezer stops working. >>
A fridge/freezer has only one thermostat, set to around 4C to control the fridge temp. The freezer compressor then works hard enough to keep it around -20C.
However, if room temperature is below around 4C the fridge food will be okay but the freezer compressor won't work at all, allowing freezer food to thaw.
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>> However, if room temperature is below around 4C the fridge food will be okay but
>> the freezer compressor won't work at all, allowing freezer food to thaw.
Unless you have a BEKO freezer which will work in low temperatures.
We have on in our wooden garden shed. Works fine even in frosty/snowy conditions found in North Nott.
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>> Unless you have a BEKO freezer which will work in low temperatures.
>> We have on in our wooden garden shed. Works fine even in frosty/snowy conditions found
>> in North Nott.
The issue mentioned is specific to fridge-freezers with a single compressor. There may be other issues affecting freezers outside but they're not the one where the fridge thermostat being open allows the freeze bit to thaw.
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Anything with 'auto defrost' should not be put in a garage or shed that's unheated.
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Insulating Attached Garage - madf
