***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 5 *****
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Continuing discussion.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 2 Oct 15 at 01:44
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www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/09/us-mideast-crisis-syria-exclusive-idUSKCN0R91H720150909
Russia steps in with their big boots.
I wonder if their experiences in Afghanistan will help or hinder them? :-)
Last edited by: Roger. on Sun 13 Sep 15 at 09:40
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>> www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/09/us-mideast-crisis-syria-exclusive-idUSKCN0R91H720150909
>>
>> Russia steps in with their big boots.
The Reuters report points out that key question is whether Assad is part of the problem or part of the solution. Russia thinks solution, America says problem.
Not an easy one to solve.
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>> The Reuters report points out that key question is whether Assad is part of the
>> problem or part of the solution. Russia thinks solution, America says problem.
Russia thinks control and influence, America thinks control and influence.
The only difference between the two is who they think will get it for them.
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>> Russia thinks control and influence, America thinks control and influence.
The american's view is to deny russian influence, rather than increase their's per se.
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You percieve to have be some sort of second class citizen? If so in what way ?
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>> You percieve to have be some sort of second class citizen? If so in what
>> way ?
I think it's part of Roger's fantasy that UK is dominated by Islam....
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Ahh right, I wondered what he was getting at. We all have our fantasies, strange one to have though.
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>> Melanie Phillips?!!!!
>>
>> Breitbart's scraping the bottom of the barrel.
>>
What's wrong with her? She writes for The Times.
Ah, maybe it's the 'ex-lefty that's seen the light' bit that offends you.
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>> Ah, maybe it's the 'ex-lefty that's seen the light' bit that offends you.
She was certainly once left leaning writer and Social Policy editor for the Guardian who has since moved to the right.
While I'm prepared to accept my own prejudices about some of her views her advocacy for and continued defence of Andrew Wakefield's misguided campaign against MMR is profoundly worrying. Her views on drug use, global warming and gay rights frankly verge on the irrational.
In the latter case one outfit, Stonewall perhaps, named her bigot of the year.
Her capacity to fall out with employers seems to be some way beyond 'once unlucky, twice careless'.
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The Phillips article re-quote from the Times. It starts with a para about "virtue signalling", which I'd never heard of so googled - I came across this para which made me smile on this webpage mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2015/05/virtue-signalling.html
"The most savage, bilious, self-righteous rants are from people living affluent self-pleasing lives in comfortable homes, doing lucky and rewarding jobs with like-minded friends. What they are doing (I risk losing a friend or two) is “virtue-signallingâ€: competing to seem compassionate. Few are notably open-handed: St Matthew would need a rewrite of Chapter 19. “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast and give to the poor. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. So he went on Twitter instead and called Michael Gove a ‘vile reptilian evil tory scumbag’, and linked to a cartoon of Iain Duncan Smith stealing a paralysed woman’s wheelchair. And lo, he felt better and went for a £3.50 caramel macchiato with some mates from the BBC.â€...
btw I just found this clip showing Kuwait's reasoning for the Gulf not taking any refugees.
www.memritv.org/clip/en/5066.htm
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>> While I'm prepared to accept my own prejudices about some of her views her advocacy
>> for and continued defence of Andrew Wakefield's misguided campaign against MMR is profoundly worrying. Her
>> views on drug use, global warming and gay rights frankly verge on the irrational.
>>
>> In the latter case one outfit, Stonewall perhaps, named her bigot of the year.
>>
>> Her capacity to fall out with employers seems to be some way beyond 'once unlucky,
>> twice careless'.
Fair enough, I'll wear that.
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>> >> Melanie Phillips?!!!!
>> >>
>> >> Breitbart's scraping the bottom of the barrel.
>> >>
>>
>> What's wrong with her? She writes for The Times.
>>
>> Ah, maybe it's the 'ex-lefty that's seen the light' bit that offends you.
Of course - that's it!
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The germans no doubt look through the other end of telescope.
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The woman's a sanctimonious idiot. She yawps away about preventing the use of illegal drugs, just like legislators the world over bullied into it by the shameless, hypocritical US government.
Nothing will stop people using illegal drugs. Generally speaking they are much less harmful than the legal ones, tobacco and alcohol. Prohibition is mindless and stupid, and it can't work.
Lygonos won't say he agrees with me, but I bet he does up to a point.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 13 Sep 15 at 18:39
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>>Lygonos won't say he agrees with me, but I bet he does up to a point.
au contraire, I'm very much in the legalise it, licence it, tax it camp.
>>Generally speaking they are much less harmful than the legal ones, tobacco and alcohol
Indeed - even morhpine/heroin are relatively safe when you know exactly what you are injecting/smoking, and doing it in a manner not conducive to spreading viral illnesses.
Probably the most dangerous drugs (to the user, on a deaths-per-hit basis) are solvents - never seen much of a "War on Glue" in the past 20 years.
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>> Probably the most dangerous drugs (to the user, on a deaths-per-hit basis) are solvents -
>> never seen much of a "War on Glue" in the past 20 years.
How about a war on deodorant?
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>>How about a war on deodorant?
Had 2 incidents when I worked in A&E in the 90s with the (at the time) new Lynx bodyspray bottles - apparently the nicely rounded and ergonomic cap made them perfect for bottie fun.
Unfortunately if the lid came off while halfway up the Khyber pass, it was near impossible for the mortally embarrassed chap to recover the plastic item and the inverted cup shape generally made it difficult to poop out unaided.
So, yeah, a war on deodorant next please.
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You must have heard some interesting excuses.
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Sorry Lygonos. Underestimated you a bit.
Lynx, yuk, good God!
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 13 Sep 15 at 21:02
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Im with those in favour of legalisation.
US politicians cannot afford it I suspect - I suspect -without any proof - that drug barons indirectly fund anti drug legalisation campaigns, as their profits depend on continued illegality.
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The US is (in some places) ahead of much of the Western world already.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._jurisdiction
Considering very little crime is committed by people using dope*, I doubt there will be a strong argument to re-criminalise.
"Cannabis is listed as a Schedule I substance under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, the highest classification under the legislation. This means that the substance has been claimed by the U.S. federal government to have both high abuse potential and no established medical use."
The tobacco and alcohol industries are the biggest lobbiers against decriminalisation and leagalisation yet they peddle much more dangerous substances by the federal governments own measure.
Open up the market for self-abuse!
* that's not the same as saying many criminals use cannabis, as a very large number of them do (but less than the number who smoke tobacco and use alcohol)... but it's not the causative event for their criminality - if they weren't smoking dope they'd still be eejits.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 13 Sep 15 at 22:36
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>> has been claimed by the U.S. federal government to have both high abuse potential and no established medical use."
In other words, the govt knows people like it and that doctors on the whole can't find a use for it.
But it wasn't 'criminalized' in the first place as a result of any 'strong argument', or any argument at all really. It's just hated by killjoys and puritans, with or without links with the tobacco and alcohol industries. Same applies to other illegal drugs (some of which do call for a cautious informed approach by those interested).
It's none of the government's damn business what people choose to amuse or poison themselves with. What are we, children? Apparently our rulers think so.
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What has this to do with migrants???
Fact is thousands cross per day via Greece and then onwards.
I am planning to help by taking things with me in a few weeks. But also making sure my effort/spending couldn't be better achieved via a donation.
Anyone ever taken up the 'offer' of 10kg with an airline for charity goods? I need some form of official email/letter.
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When millions of ethnic Germans were expelled from eastern Europe after the war, it was at first seen as a collosal migrant crisis. But over a few years the large new labour pool was seen as a key factor in re-starting the west German economy.
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I am planning to help by taking things with me in a few weeks. But also making sure my effort/spending couldn't be better achieved via a donation.
I've heard several charity spokespeople say they'd far rather have cash, with which they can buy the right stuff, than well-intentioned DIY relief missions that tend just to get in their way.
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I am not familiar with the origins, make-up, or aims of this source, but the article may provide some alternative viewpoints about the current wave of immigrants into Europe.
www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260019/hijrah-europe-robert-spencer
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>> I am not familiar with the origins, make-up, or aims of this source
I don't think you need to more than read the side bar for some BIG clues.
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OK - it's seems to be right wing - doesn't make it evil!
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I have just been speaking with a friend whose daughter returned to her home in southern Germany earlier this week. She had to change trains at Munich with two young children and described the scene there as absolute chaos. There are thousands of migrants at the station not knowing where to go or what to do. She had been told that there was a similar situation in many southern German areas with migrants believing they have arrived in a land where there will be housing, jobs, and it seems streets paved with gold, not surprisingly they are somewhat disappointed.
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I'm meeting my Munich based mate next week for Oktoberfest. He was telling me yesterday that the station area is absolutely crowded, and as that's not far from where Oktoberfest is held I ought to be able to bring back a first hand account of how it looks.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 17 Sep 15 at 16:12
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"At the continent's northern tip, small numbers of people are believed to have crossed from Russia into Norway."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34271002
Holy shi-ite. I hope people don't try to do that on foot after about the end of this month.
How desperate do you have to be to choose the border between Russian and Norway as your entry point to Europe?
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The Germans have severely Ballsed Up.
The word has gone around and now loads of migrants think it's doable, so they risk their family's lives and/or put them through hell on long walks and lengthy stays in squalor for a chance of a better life that might well not come to anything.
At the same time, there's unknown undesirables in the same queue.
Then the Germans have got the cheek to try to lean on us to take more, which only really exacerbates the problem... whilst at the same time they are trying to close their borders... in the EU free movement area?
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>> The Germans have severely Ballsed Up.
>>
>> >>
My view too, for all the reasons you state.
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Debatable. Anyone think these people would be staying in Syria/Iraq if Germany hadn't offered refuge? No, me neither.
Does anyone think Kurds would be happy staying in Turkey at the moment? No, me neither.
Does anyone think that Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and Greece should be taking all the refugees? No, me neither.
What are we going to do? Don't know, it's a bit above my pay grade, but a pan-European / North American system of fair, proportional distribution would certainly help matters.
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>> What are we going to do? Don't know, it's a bit above my pay grade,
>> but a pan-European / North American system of fair, proportional distribution would certainly help matters.
>>
I don't think it does. We'd be better off sorting out whatever the problem is at source.
How many people live in Syria...22.85 million; Iraq... 33.42 million.
If say only 10% get up and move out because of ISIS...that's 5 million people...and that's only from 2 countries.
Oh and there's plenty of posts on Facebook* wondering why the Muslim countries of the Middle East aren't opening their doors to anyone... why does it have to be just Europe and North America helping out?
* I know there will be people of the far Right stirring things, but sometimes they have a point.
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Oh and there's plenty of posts on Facebook* wondering why the Muslim countries of the
>> Middle East aren't opening their doors to anyone... why does it have to be just
>> Europe and North America helping out?
>>
>> * I know there will be people of the far Right stirring things, but sometimes
>> they have a point.
Not sure people on fb are much to go by. If they want to answer that question there's plenty of info online as to where they've gone.
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>>Not sure people on fb are much to go by<<
Don't underestimate them or disregard their opinions Sooty, you'd be surprised the impact something on Facebook can have.
Pat
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I don't underestimate what online campaigns can do.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 17 Sep 15 at 17:14
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"The Germans have severely Ballsed Up."
Yes - I was saying weeks ago that holding up their 'welcome' placards was rather like the barmy teenager who advertises on Facebook that she's having a party when her parents are away for the week .........
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"Come and join us: we welcome you" - two weeks ago
Borders closed - now.
Total shambles..
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In serious vein I find foreigners interesting, and sympathise with migrants and refugees.
But there is almost literally no end to the numbers heading for northern Europe. Germany seems to be the preferred destination but anywhere well-organised will do, obviously, even this place.
Is no one else bothered by these TV clips of thousands of angry, hungry foreigners coming up against the various fences, pulling them down, shouting that Hungarian border fuzz are 'animals' and fleeing into nature with helpless nippers in tow? Sure, European countries have broad financial shoulders, but everything has its limits. I'm no xenophobe but I find it worrying.
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None of us know the answer, but it needs to be sorted at 'source'.
What gets me is the like of Germany and Sweden say they will take so many refugees but offer no help getting them there. It's obviously a long and difficult journey and the countries used for the transit routes don't want them. So to get to Sweden they need to cross Denmark but they're not allowed to.... does Sweden really expect many to turn up?
Hungary's actions are disgraceful. And what do you they is going to happen on the Serbian side if they don't let people cross? And as soon as the border crossing is opened for other traffic it will be stormed.
I also think the help should start before they cross to Greece from Turkey for example. They pay around £1000 each to get across and finally get on a ferry to Athens. Couldn't the same ferry pick them up in Turkey and do away with the traffickers who make lots of money? I know it's not that simple.
And why not fly the refugees from say Mytiliene airport on Lesvos directly to Germany? I know it will take a lot of planes and it will cost. The answer is it will make it easier and even more will come.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 17 Sep 15 at 17:14
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>> it needs to be sorted at 'source'.
What does that mean? Presumably making everything OK in Africa, Asia and the middle East, so that people would rather stay at home where at least it's warm and doesn't rain much, and where food is cheap and palatable instead of costing the earth and tasting of cardboard.
Good in principle of course. But how can it be done rtj? Damned if I know.
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>> Good in principle of course. But how can it be done rtj? Damned if I know.
That's the problem - there is no quick or easy fix. The west has messed up these countries big time and now there are millions needing to move to safe places.
I don't claim to know an answer - there might not be one. But we cannot expect people to stay where they live and be killed.
My reference to 'source' is something needs to happen to sort out Assad in Syria and ISIL (or whatever they call themselves this week) wherever they are.
The US will probably come up with a crazy plan of using Al-Qaida to sort it for them....
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It makes you realise the queuing up for a passport check to get into the UK in not such a bad idea.
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They are now having to "quell" rampaging, stone-throwing, abusive "refugee's"? with tear gas and water cannon at the borders! - Who in their right minds would want to let that load of trouble into their countries and towns?. Residents in some heavily infested Greek towns are living in fear for their own and their children's Safety, their daily lives are being threatened and ruined! - Those Middle-Eastern types are just too volatile to integrate fully into into peaceful places, they fall out with each other and everyone else over the trivialest things. Many of them are used to having and using fire-arms, and wouldn't think twice about the consequences of using them in their new societies. Europe in 10 or so years (maybe earlier) will be just the same as Syria, and where will we run to??
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>> Residents in some heavily infested Greek towns are living in fear for their own and their
>> children's Safety, their daily lives are being threatened and ruined!
Care to name these towns? Significant numbers come through Lesvos and your statement with regards Lesvos is simply untrue. I'll see for myself in just over a week when I go to Lesvos for the second time this year.
>> Those Middle-Eastern types are just too volatile to integrate fully into into peaceful places,
Your 'type' sounds a bit racist and volatile to me.
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I was accused of being racist for raising concerns two weeks ago.
Some of you lot cannot - or more likely will not - look a little in advance and see the obvious problems.
Issue : there are millions of refugees. So what number is the maximum we will take over 10 years?
20,000?, 100,000? 1 milion?
Based on what you say is the most you can take over ten years, you can guarantee the numbers mean that once you announce that you will get three times the number.
The annualised intake in Germany since Fr Merkel invited them all is c 2 million a year (she wanted 800k).
It's not as if England has lots of room...
Lots of nasty facts...I must be a racist to raise them..
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The annualised intake in Germany since Fr Merkel invited them all is c 2 million
>> a year (she wanted 800k).
You mean 2 million in the last 12 months ?
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"Lots of nasty facts...I must be a racist to raise them.."
Alas, the word 'racist' is often confused with the word 'realist'.
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>
>> Alas, the word 'racist' is often confused with the word 'realist'.
Alas, the word realist is often used by racists to justify their views.
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"Alas, the word realist is often used by racists to justify their views."
My view is that Brompt is a seriously good man and that since a Brompt jnr has recently fled the the nest, he will have room at the Towers for some migrants/refugees. So, will he be taking 9 or 10, or will he be a little more racist (realistic?) and restrict their number to 3 or 4? Yvette Cooper will be opening her (two) houses up - though I understand that she hasn't got round to it yet.
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The Hungarian Migrant riots were shown on ITV news last night, the "Greek" scenario was a 3 min video posted on Social media, by a "Terrorised" local, which I view literally viewed two mins before posting my o/p.
I was going to back up my statement with the link to the vid in this post, but already it has been removed ! - if that isn't a fine example of "Social Media" suppressing the truth from the masses! - however, here is a link to a similar outbreak on Kos. It is not an isolated occurrence.These people if truly refugees should be "over the moon" just to be out of Syria, not rioting, killing, and demanding because they can't get their own way! They are bringing the War with them!:
greece.greekreporter.com/2015/08/11/migrants-riot-on-greek-island-of-kos-situation-out-of-control-says-mayor/
And I don't intend to sound Racisist! - is it racist to be fearful for the future of your own Country? - besides, I support Chelsea, who often field a multi-racial team, along with four of my friends, all of whom are non-English and often go out together socially.
I hope I am proved wrong in the future, for at the moment I feel sorry for the young kids of today who will have the legacy of what we do now to live with for the rest of their lives, whilst the "ones" that allowed it to happen will probably be "out of it".
Edit: Even as I type this, rioting Migrants have broken through the Serbian border and are fighting Police.
Last edited by: devonite on Thu 17 Sep 15 at 19:22
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In theory these refugees (they are not migrants from Syria for example) should register for asylum as soon as they enter a safe country. So that would be Greece or Italy then. But they are not wanted there and don't want to be there.
So they had been allowed to travel onwards to Germany for example. That is being prevented. So if they cannot travel onwards... where are they meant to go? They don't want to even stay in Hungary or Croatia.
I'm not sure how I'd feel if I had 150k refugees on the march through my country. But I'm not sure I want them camped on the border either.
I still think they should be helped to get to their destination without this epic journey across Europe.
Previous leaders and current ones have a lot to answer for with regards the mess they have made in north Africa, Syria, Iraq, etc.
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>> I support Chelsea
This would explain a lot.
;-)
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Is see that hero of the people Andy Murray has said he will donate £50 for each Ace he plays.
Apparently he "felt he had to do something to help".
If he continues to play as he has done recently, that could amount to as much as £12,500. Hold the front pages!!!!
Considering his £48million wealth at the moment, and his recent £15m 4 yr contract, I feel that the depth of his need to help pretty much sums him up.
Pillock. I shouldn't think £12,500 will even pay for the first week of media advertising he gets.
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I have never felt more delighted that I don't have grandchildren :-(
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>> www.express.co.uk/news/world/606367/Immigration-European-Union-Syria-Sir-Bill-Cash-Eurostat-David-Cameron-Yvette-Cooper
Article in Express claims EU figures show only one in four Asylum claimants are Syrian and that by inference the whole thing is charade. Apart from fact that figures are to June, iie they do not represent current situation it's also clear many others were Afghan. Another sub set were Albanian 'a country not even at war'. The last point is of course utterly falacoius so far asylum is concerned; was East Germany at war when we granted its citizens asylum?
I also suspect the story is deliberately conflating asylum and refugee status.
But then you cannot expect a paper owned by man donating millions to UKIP to be honest about the issue.
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...so you think The Guardian, for instance, does not have its own agenda?
Last edited by: Roger. on Sat 19 Sep 15 at 12:27
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>> ...so you think The Guardian, for instance, does not have its own agenda?
No, but it was the Express that you were referencing.
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>> ...so you think The Guardian, for instance, does not have its own agenda?
Well here, for balance, is the Guardian's analysis of the numbers.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/reality-check/2015/sep/19/daily-mail-syrian-refugees-story-three-problems
What says Rog and his green thumber?
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I don't get out much, commute to work and home again in the evening. I took my son out to his Saturday school this morning.
For the first time I saw a few fit young men on the move. No women or children in tow. Not locals. Heavily laden with luggage. If they had been processed surely they would have been with transport ?
I am about 50 miles from the Dutch and Belgian borders.
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>> For the first time I saw a few fit young men on the move. No
>> women or children in tow. Not locals. Heavily laden with luggage. If they had been
>> processed surely they would have been with transport ?
Let me translate that into Daily Express speak.
"Eye witnesses report hundreds of thousands of fully equipped ISIS terrorists preparing to invade UK shores thanks to the EU"
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 20 Sep 15 at 09:19
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Why translate into Daily Express speak? Just saying what I saw, no axe to grind.
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>> Why translate into Daily Express speak? Just saying what I saw, no axe to grind.
>>
I wasn't grinding an axe, merely making a general comment - not aimed at you.
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>> For the first time I saw a few fit young men on the move. No
>> women or children in tow. Not locals. Heavily laden with luggage. If they had been
>> processed surely they would have been with transport ?
Numbers?
A tiny proportion of those on the move want to come to the UK and they gather in Calais. Presumably yuor chaps were heading that way, or looking for other exits now the security around tunnel/ferries has been uprated.
While they may be singletons looking to disappear, sending fit young men ahead as 'scouts' is pretty normal human behaviour.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 20 Sep 15 at 09:46
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In total about 50 in small groups. The reason it surprised me is I am not on any major transport links or routes, bit back of beyond.
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>> In total about 50 in small groups. The reason it surprised me is I am
>> not on any major transport links or routes, bit back of beyond.
If you are walking, the direct line of march matters, which is often back routes. And its often the one not on the radar.
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That's why it struck me as odd. The other side of the village is a huge natural barrier about half a mile deep, 2 to 3 miles wide and about 5 miles long.
It's an opencast mining site which you can see on Google.
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May simply have been where the people smugglers turfed them out of the lorry?
Oddly, in spite of all the recent incidents and disruption to cross channel traffic they've seemed less visible than previously around Calais.
Last summer and again when Mrs B and I had a pre Xmas break they were very evident along the A16 and on the port spur off it. This summer both to/from our main holiday and last week when lad and I and his g/f did the day trip thing apart from an overhead view of a camp from the spur road we didn't see any of them. Obviously the fencing of the port access and a Gendarme presence at the point the fencing starts will have made a difference but that doesn't account for them not being around the autoroute.
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Why, when some of the "displaced Persons" are paying "Traffickers" thousands to get them where they are going, do they not walk to the nearest Airport, buy tickets to their chosen destination and then "claim Asylum" when they get there?
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In the US because an airline bringing people to the country who are not eligible to enter that country get fined, a lot.
Which would mean that a Syrian, for example, would not be able to board a plane destined for the US without a visa to enter the US.
It may well be the same for all countries, I don't know.
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A very much doubt there are flights from Syria to anywhere they'd like to go. And from Turkey I would imagine being an illegal in the country would also make boarding a flight difficult. And then as Mark says, they probably need a visa for the country they want to get to.
I would imagine that if they could fly they would. They have the money and it's a lot safer and easier than what they are being forced to do.
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"Oh dear, Merkel's boo-boo is unravelling a bit more, has she unwittingly started to unravel the EU?"
As the realists among us predicted some weeks ago. Let me say that word again 'realists'.
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Great idea.. How are they going to keep them there?
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>> Oh dear, Merkel's boo-boo is unravelling a bit more, has she unwittingly started to unravel
>> the EU?
No doubt those who believe this are the type who have been predicting that the end of the Euro is nigh. For 14 years. i.e. those who merely want to believe it.
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>> >>
>> No doubt those who believe this are the type who have been predicting that the
>> end of the Euro is nigh. For 14 years. i.e. those who merely want to
>> believe it.
>>
Although they are a bit closer to the truth than those who were predicting that the UK would be finished if we didn't join the Euro.
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>> Although they are a bit closer to the truth than those who were predicting that
>> the UK would be finished if we didn't join the Euro.
>>
Really? Evidence? (N.B. I was and remain strongly against the UK joining the Euro, and I voted UKIP in the early 2000s when it seemed necessary to register opposition at the ballot box lest Mr Tony Blair got his wish.) I don't think the Euro was the best idea, it was obviously a political rather than an economic project, and therefore probably not the wisest thing in the world to try. But it's here, and it's not going away now. Just as the EU is going nowhere.
Anyone who wants to believe it's going to fall apart because of this current migration issue might want to consider an allegory in the form of their own marriage/relationship - does every single disagreement end in divorce, or some kind of mutual compromise in order to maintain the greater good? This will be resolved and pass. If the recent financial crises haven't put paid to it, then this won't even register.
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>> Just as the EU is going nowhere. >>
I'm glad you agree Alanović, that's why we should leave and trade freely with the rest of the world!
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Very funny.
So far as I'm aware we trade quite nicely with the rest of the world already.
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Most of our trade agreements are VIA the EU.
Last edited by: Roger. on Wed 23 Sep 15 at 11:56
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>> Most of our trade agreements are VIA the EU.
>>
So how many years do UKIP think we will need to re-negotiate them?
And what will we lose in the meantime?
And what plans have UKIP in place to lay out a framework of negotitaion which the chosen negotiators will use.?
If you can't reply in detail within 30 minutes of reading this, quoting an official UKIP document.. we will know how serious a Party UKIP are.
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I guess only a ruling party can get its Civil Servants to draw up detailed plans for a Brexit, but I would be surprised if there is not a Whitehall department beavering away on this - just in case.
AFAIK none of the Conservative, Labour, or LibDem parties have issued such blueprints.
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>> I guess only a ruling party can get its Civil Servants to draw up detailed
>> plans for a Brexit,
I heard comments from several former colleagues to effect that they were allowed only very limited planning for a Yes vote in the Scottish referendum. While there will undoubtedly be a contingency plan for 'things to do/work through' in event of Brexit I doubt that there are detailed plans for the scenario.
(a) still not that likely, (b) too many variables/uncertainties beyond vote+1 month to realistically plan for (c) fear of giving credibility to the antis: Whitehall plans for Brexit isn't a headline ministers want to see.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 23 Sep 15 at 20:09
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No doubt those who believe this are the type who have been predicting that the
>> end of the Euro is nigh. For 14 years. i.e. those who merely want to
>> believe it.
>>
I'd agree seems no end of people confusing what they want to happen and what is likely to happen. Whether people like the eu or not is neither here not there. But there are many that seem to get overly excited at every issue in the eu and then start fantasising about the end of it. I'm never sure if they actually believe it every time or not.
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It seems to me that the EU is unlikely to become one state within any of our lifetimes, or if it did that it would not be tearing itself apart from the off. We are struggling to keep the UK together and I simply can't understand how the SNP reconciles its burning desire for independence with its attachment to the EU.
Short of becoming a USE, that leaves us with either the current uncomfortable status quo or some degree of break up.
As for the currency - we are now seeing the stresses caused by the uncoupling of political and fiscal control which always has been the challenge for the common currency.
I have no idea how it will resolve and I don't actually mind, as long as it does. For that to happen, politicians must either agree, or agree to disagree. Being innies when it suits, and threatening to take our bat and ball away when it doesn't, isn't a long term solution.
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Migrant Crisis - Volume 3 - Roger.
