Heard today it's going to do a display at Shuttleworth, 4 Oct. A display, not a flypast: www.shuttleworth.org/events/uncovered/
According to the Vulcan website this will be its last flying day, although this display isn't listed: www.vulcantothesky.org/appearances.html
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It entertained the crowds royally at the Rhyl air-show a couple of weeks ago, it overflew us quite low on Anglesey on a beautiful day.
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Their messages to supporters suggest some sort of farewell tour/flypasts in October but subject to donations.
www.vulcantotheskystore.co.uk/final-flight-sponsor-2168-p.asp
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Nearly went up to Cosby today to see it (my Mother lives nearby) but garden was bigger priority. Apparently it went tech @ PIK earlier in day with an undercart issue and returned to Doncaster with gear locked down. Sally B did a spirited display though according to The Lad who was in Leicester.
Might go to either Gaydon or Old Warden on 04/10.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 6 Sep 15 at 21:34
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My only chance to se it will be Sarum next weekend. All tickets for that have been sold, but if i can find a hillside somewhere......
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>> My only chance to se it will be Sarum next weekend. All tickets for that
>> have been sold, but if i can find a hillside somewhere......
It's transit route from DSA to display sites and back is usually on the website on display days, augmented by Twitter updates as it avoids weather etc.
Seems to use the M1 and/or Silverstone as nav lines/waypoints so I've seen it hereabouts several times.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 6 Sep 15 at 21:54
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yeah, but thats just, well, flying. It needs to howl. has the display changed after shoreham? is it still doing the wing over?
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Appearing at Southport Air Show later this month, where it has proved a firm favourite over the years.
In fact the show won't seem the same after one of the world's most elegant aircraft over the year ceases to delight us.
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The Vulcan is a truly magnificent beast, a four-engined bomber that performs like a strike fighter doing near-vertical climbs.
I didn't see it myself but it was said the wings flexed and rippled visibly when the aircraft was going quickly into a steep climb.
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I've heard a rumour that after the last public display there'll be a private display for all its support crew and RAF personnel where they want to barrel roll it.
Anyone else heard anything?
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We'd hoped to see at at the Revival at Goodwood this weekend, but it cut short its trip and retuned to base with a fuel leak before it got to us. I assume therefore that the Salisbury fly past was also cancelled?
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>> We'd hoped to see at at the Revival at Goodwood this weekend, but it cut
>> short its trip and retuned to base with a fuel leak before it got to
>> us. I assume therefore that the Salisbury fly past was also cancelled?
It was due to display at Salisbury (Old Sarum) after Goodwood but never made it, and with it my last chance to see it.
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I saw a Vulcan at Farnborough Air Show (I think) in the early 80s. I was just a boy and was more impressed by/interested in my friend's Dad's car which we travelled there in - a new Cortina MkV 1.6L company car in blue, with a blue fabric interior. I was used to cars with vinyl/plastic seats so this was really something.
When the Vulcan went over I damn near cra@pped my trousers and almost cried with terror. Did not enjoy. Not really a plane person.
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That's a shame Z :(
Living close to Goodwood we see (hear!!) it most years as it's often at either Festival of Speed or Revival, but this year we had my brother, his wife and little boy and also his father in law who was very much looking forward to the Vulcan fly past with us so we actually paid money to go :p.
A brilliant afternoon, but the FIL was somewhat disappointed; the multitude of spitfires, of which he appeared to have encyclopaedic knowledge, weren't quiet enough to make up for the disappointment I don't think... But, there is one 3 year old boy who is now very clear what a spitfire is :) And he loved them!!
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>>I've heard a rumour that after the last public display there'll be a private display for all its support crew and RAF personnel where they want to barrel roll it.
It may have been no rumour: tinyurl.com/p5yeoyj
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As the RAF rumour site asked..."was that filmed with a potato ?"... what utter crap ! What they going to do ? Ground it ?
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looks to me like stitched together footage. Its been a while since the last flights, had they done this more footage and much comment would have surfaced at the time.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 4 Nov 15 at 16:46
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That video proves nothing. Very strange aspect ratio which furthers the idea that it is a compilation of shots with bits edited out so you can't see the mismatches.
Heaps of decent videos on You Tube, just about every movement of the plane was filmed so had it done an illegal manoeuvre, there'd be better quality footage and the issue would have surfaced at the time.
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>> Heaps of decent videos on You Tube, just about every movement of the plane was
>> filmed
Every outing this year has been filmed by dozens of cameras. However much the crews might have wanted to prove they could roll the Vulcan for a final time (it's said to have been done before) it's inconceivable they'd actually do so.
OTOH both left and right hand wingovers beyond 90 degrees are comonplace so stitching shots together is easy.
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Had I been the pilot of that plane, had I been reaching the end of my flying career in a plane that had reached the end of its, had I been convinced I could do it, and if I was somewhere not above residencies so wasn't risking the lives of the uninvolved, then I would have rolled it and sanity be damned.
And damned good luck to them if they did.
The world and anything valuable in it was not built by conformist wimps.
Sadly though, I suspect that they did not.
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The very last flight, only 10 minutes, was done without notice last Wednesday afternoon 28 Oct without any announcement beforehand. Fewer spotters, although no doubt the inner circle were in on it.
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>> The very last flight, only 10 minutes, was done without notice last Wednesday afternoon 28
>> Oct without any announcement beforehand. Fewer spotters, although no doubt the inner circle were in
>> on it.
Film of all of it is available from various sources. No roll.
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>> left and right hand wingovers beyond 90 degrees are comonplace so stitching shots together is easy.
I understand that roll angles greater than 60 degrees were prohibited (possibly following Shoreham). I was at its last public display at Shuttleworth and witnessed it roll at more than 90 degrees as it left.
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Barrel rolling a Vulcan is kindergarten play. This is what grown ups get up to:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IV9PZW1N9U
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>> Barrel rolling a Vulcan is kindergarten play.
As here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=afj19PedlxE
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An my favourite, Bob Hoover in the Rockwell Shrike Commander.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhkmY3rELeY
No longer flying but still with us aged 93.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 5 Nov 15 at 12:24
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...it was said the wings flexed and rippled visibly...
That's what wings are designed to do, AC. If they were made stiff enough not to, most planes would be too heavy to fly. It's very noticeable from a window seat in an A380, partly because the wings are so long.
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I've seen it at close quarters once; at RAF Finningley's display in about 1968. Low and fast down the crowd line, then into that seemingly vertical climb with an astounding noise. Never to be forgotten.
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My first 12 working years were spent in an office behind Buck Palace and we saw the Vulcans doing flyovers reasonably often. Always impressive.
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>>Appearing at Southport Air Show later this month, where it has proved a firm favourite over the years.>>
The Red Arrows appear as usual on both days next Saturday and Sunday, but the Saturday is going to be special as it's just been revealed that the Vulcan will fly in formation with the display team.
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There is a Vulcan at the Midland Air Museum in Coventry. Went in July and was able to sit in it for 10 mins while having a volunteer give a wonderful description of it. The icing on the cake was noticing a Vinten reconnaissance camera in the nose. (I worked for Vinten for 30 years)
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>> >>Appearing at Southport Air Show later this month, where it has proved a firm favourite over the years.>>
The Red Arrows appear as usual on both days next Saturday and Sunday, but the Saturday is going to be special as it's just been revealed that the Vulcan will fly in formation with the display team.>>
In fact yesterday's appearance with the Red Arrows was the final time that it will ever be seen - a truly awesome and uplifting sight for me and the many, many thousands of spectators fortunate enough to witness the occasion.
This is an official video of the fly past with some fascinating information also provided by the air show's commentator:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPCGT_DXh_Q&sns=fb
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In fact yesterday's appearance with the Red Arrows was the final time that it will ever be seen - a truly awesome and uplifting sight for me and the many, many thousands of spectators fortunate enough to witness the occasion.
Update
"Announcing dates for a two-day tour in mid-October to say ‘Farewell to Flight’ for the Nation."
A celebratory national tour, XH558’s most ambitious ever, is being planned for Saturday 10th and Sunday 11th October.
It will bring her flying career to a spectacular close in two sorties to cover the north and south, giving as many people as possible a final opportunity to see the dramatic sight of a Vulcan in the air.
In saluting that remarkable period of intense British innovation that XH558 so powerfully embodies, the tour will include fly-pasts of several sites famous for British aviation excellence, as well as other well-known locations chosen to provide good vantage points for supporters.
The flight plan and viewing options on the ground are yet to be confirmed, so please continue to read our email newsletters, Facebook, Twitter and postal mailings for further details.
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>>"Announcing dates for a two-day tour in mid-October to say 'Farewell to Flight' for the Nation.">>
The "final appearance" was that in formation with the Red Arrows, not that of the Vulcan itself...:-)
That's why it was such a very special occasion. You can read about it and see some great photos at:
www.facebook.com/royalairforceredarrows?fref=nf
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-34411544
I love the name of the lady "who lives near Bedford, said she grew up with the plane, which was piloted by her father for the RAF." Dawn Sunrise. Surely not?
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AFAIK it flies again next weekend on two tours of UK, north and south. These will be flypasts to allow one last look, not displays.
There may be some uncertainty over them though. Problems with spectators at last few landings at its Finningley base obstructing crash gates etc. Supporters of the Trust that owns/operates XH558 have all had emails pointing out that these crowds threaten the last flight.
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That would explain why the Vulcan pilot interviewed on R4 this morning was discouraging spectators from coming to the venues this weekend. Whether it will make any difference is another matter.
Never bothered going to the Abingdon air show in the 1980s when I could see most of the displays from my window at home. A Vulcan was always a highlight, even then. I've climbed the ladder to the flight deck of the one at the Midlands Air Museum; a remarkably tiny space inside something so big. Wouldn't have suited me. (The same museum has a Meteor cockpit you can sit in. I fit comfortably into the seat - but I wouldn't be able to close the lid. I believe that might be a disadvantage.)
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>> That would explain why the Vulcan pilot interviewed on R4 this morning was discouraging spectators
>> from coming to the venues this weekend. Whether it will make any difference is another
>> matter.
Both displays this weekend, Gaydon and Old Warden, are sold out - no tickets on gate. Duxford a fortnight ago was same. Signs on NE quadrant of M25 on the Friday were announcing this fact and discouraging 'unofficial' spectators.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 3 Oct 15 at 12:38
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I've got a ticket for tomorrow. One went on ebay yesterday for eighty-odd quid!
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Robin Hood Airport (Vulcan's home base) has stated that an influx of gawpers to see take-off & landing, thus obstructing safety areas (it's a commercial passenger airport, of course) wil definity cause cancellation of any more Vulcan flights.
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Saw it today flying, seemed to be up with BBMF. It was being trailed by 5 then 4 I think a mixture of hurricanes and spitfires.
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Went to Shuttleworth today at short notice and videoed it
Quite fitting really as we saw its first display many years ago at Southend so it was only fitting to see it on its last display fight
youtu.be/5wnVm5BvPig
Last edited by: diddy1234 on Sun 4 Oct 15 at 18:30
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In the PC world we are all warmongers for eulogising a bomber!
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I was at a loose end Sunday so drove to Duxford. Lovely warm afternoon spent wandering aroud with a few planes flying but no official display. Towards late afternoon a boxy twin tailed cargo plane took off and flew away. The back was open and a few passengers were sitting near the open tail gate waving as it took off.
Later there was an announcement the Vulcan would fly over. It did and in front of XH558 was the same boxy aircraft which took off earlier. I'm guessing the passengers were photographers getting some excellent shots of ther Vulcan on its way from Old Warden to home.
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This is the official video of the final Vulcan display escorted by the Red Arrows at Southport on September 19th, which I was privileged to witness in company with many thousands of others (the commentary is very interesting as well):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPCGT_DXh_Q&sns=fb
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It's a beautiful beast. It can't really fly like a fighter, but near enough... you'd have to ask a pilot.
I like the paint job too, and the little RAF roundels.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 6 Oct 15 at 02:18
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Very emotional. My Father saw 'Her' at Chivenor in I guess the early Nineties. He took great pains to explain her shape, how sleek she was and he was very demonstrative waving his arms about a lot. As he spoke these words to a crowd in the pub I commented that it must have been one hell of an Aircraft to do all this inside the Beer tent! Shall I say he was not amused.
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How many final appearances can it make? Apparently it will fly for the last time on 10 October, over Woodford, and on 11th over Nottingham. Details to be published today: www.vulcantothesky.org/news/707/82/Farewell-Tour-10th-11th-October.html
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I was led to believe last weekend was the last public display (as opposed to a flypast). It seems more appearances have been added.
I was told residents in villages to the East of Shuttleworth had an extended flypast on Sunday as it stooged around with an Anson waiting for its appointed time.
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Latest schedule here:
www.vulcantothesky.org/appearances.html
Seems that next weekend's tour will no longer be 558's last flight. Whether that's still to be publicised or whether it'll be staged without prior notice and just for cameras/invited audience isn't 100% clear.
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Anyone go and see it today?
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hopefully off to see it at Dunsfold (14:10) or Farnborough (14:20) tomorrow.
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Have fun. Not much of a spotter (of anything) tbh but I did make an effort to go in the garden to get a good look the other weekend. There's something about it, I still think it looks modern now. Lord knows what people in the 50s thought when they saw it for the first time.
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How many more last flights is this plane going to have?
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Yep, its coming over here tomorrow. Looks like we are roughly on the flight path, so should get to see it from home if lucky
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It's the Frank Sinatra of aircraft.
Not sure I see the attraction in the thing. Saw it at Eastbourne last year I think and I found it noisy and threatening but I suppose it was meant to be as weapon of mass destruction. Prefer a bit of birdwatching myself. A lot of Teal and a few Gadwall on Ranworth Broad today.
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>> It's the Frank Sinatra of aircraft.
>>
Like him I suppose in that it's popular. I bet they could run it for another 10 years and they'd still be well in demand.
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I guess you are right. They would have made a great double act.
Neither Frank Sinatra or Vulcan Bombers are my cup of tea though.
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>> I guess you are right. They would have made a great double act.
>>
>> Neither Frank Sinatra or Vulcan Bombers are my cup of tea though.
>>
Not sure how they could make a double act, but correct both seem very popular. FS isn't my cup of tea, and neither normally is a/c spotting anything but there's something about it that makes me have a look. I wouldn't go out of my way but when it flew past my garden I had to have a good look. It's certainly got something about it.
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>> to be as weapon of mass destruction. Prefer a bit of birdwatching myself. A lot
>> of Teal and a few Gadwall on Ranworth Broad today.
4 RR Olympus engines would soon make duck soup of them.
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Possibly but more than one aircraft has been brought down by wildfowl.
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Even a fowl that's not even slightly annoyed can be dangerous, as Captain Sullenberger could attest.
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A lot of Teal and a few Gadwall on Ranworth Broad today.
>>
That will be good news to many around here, it's in waterfowl season now. Many will be looking to see if they move a bit further into the east of england. Got a couple last year, very tasty.
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Well I did a (or didn't) do a bright trick. Vulcan spotting today was on yesterdays agenda as it was doing a pass over BAE systems factory at Brough on the Humber bank stones throw from Fullchat Towers.
I nipped into Hull late morning on the bike and stopped for a coffee on the way out. Headed West to Brough area and then North over the Wolds home.
And do you know what? Completely forgot about the fly past. I would have been there at about the right time.
What an utter plonker. Sooooo disappointed. :((
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Many years ago in old Notting Hill I had a girlfriend from Brough. Her mother was OK but her dad thought I was a Martian. Perhaps I was.
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Looks like you got a good spot. Were there many people there?
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>> Looks like you got a good spot.
Yes luckily it did a circle, wasn't expecting that, and it went directly overhead, wasn't expecting that either.
>>Were there many people there?
It was the top of a hill by a gate on a bridleway, miles from anywhere, and there were about 30 people. Leaving the general area, stuck in traffic jams. Had friends at Farnborough and they said it was rammed with people.
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>> >> Looks like you got a good spot.
>>
>> Yes luckily it did a circle, wasn't expecting that, and it went directly overhead, wasn't
>> expecting that either.
We had one like that but a bit lower last year. Think it had to divert with issues so it was a bit impromptu. Like i said up thread I'm not a spotter but it was pretty impressive.
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It was the top of a hill by a gate on a bridleway, miles from anywhere, and there were about 30 people. Leaving the general area, stuck in traffic jams. Had friends at Farnborough and they said it was rammed with people.
Interesting, you do realise you got the aviation equivalent of a salute? Banking one way then the other before the final departure.
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I did, when it left a smattering of applause broke out.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 11 Oct 15 at 18:30
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Great bit of Video Zero. Mrs F was delivering something for me to within half a mile of Staverton last Sunday and did consider waiting for the Vulcan's ETA... but didn't in the end.
Having been involved with the maintenance end of such things she is looking forward to it landing safely that last time... quit while you're ahead and all that.
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Wish now I'd nipped up to East Midlands to see it last weekend. Was put off by prospect of jams but with thought planning and the Brompton as a jambuster I'd have been fine.
At least two more flights planned before final grounding.
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There was a nice little puff piece for the Vulcan on BBC Breakfast this morning, live from Robin Hood Airport. There was a brief explanation, from the CEO of the Trust, why the Trust has had to retire the plane from flying - apparently a lack of support for maintenance (translated I would guess, to mean a diminishing number of aircraft technicians certified to work on it, plus difficulty of parts supply).
Funnily enough, although we live only a few miles from DSA and being, in certain wind conditions, under its flight path, (as well as that of Leeds Bradford) we have not had sight of the Vulcan at all!
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>> There was a nice little puff piece for the Vulcan on BBC Breakfast this morning,
>> live from Robin Hood Airport. There was a brief explanation, from the CEO of the
>> Trust, why the Trust has had to retire the plane from flying - apparently a
>> lack of support for maintenance (translated I would guess, to mean a diminishing number of
>> aircraft technicians certified to work on it, plus difficulty of parts supply).
Partially it's the companies supporting it that create and support it in an airworthiness sense. The companies were having to bring people out of retirement to do various jobs. I think it's also now the fleet leader, and there is no static test airframe that creates another world of problems and at huge cost.
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>> Trust, why the Trust has had to retire the plane from flying - apparently a
>> lack of support for maintenance (translated I would guess, to mean a diminishing number of
>> aircraft technicians certified to work on it
I think the issue is that they need support from, or in place of, that which would be provided by the original manufacturer. This will go beyond line maintenance of the airframe, engines and avionics and into issues such as fatigue life and any operations required to extend that. Some work was done around 2012/13 to allow a couple more years. Now 558 has now flown more hours than any Vulcan did in RAF service and the companies providing support, Marshalls of Cambridge being one of main players regard further flying as posing too many risks.
EDIT. What Sooty said....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 13 Oct 15 at 10:47
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Sorry if this has been mentioned.. couldn't the Vulcan become part of a modern jet style memorial flight?, then it could be maintained in the same way as the current one? I guess you could have the Vulcan and two other cold war jets to accompany (not sure which ones, that could be anyone topic).
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>> Sorry if this has been mentioned.. couldn't the Vulcan become part of a modern jet
>> style memorial flight?,
Trouble is, the Vulcan has no "glorious history", never seen any real action, and when it was actually used once in anger, it missed. For that reason, its has nothing to be a memorial about.
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>> Trouble is, the Vulcan has no "glorious history", never seen any real action, and when
>> it was actually used once in anger, it missed. For that reason, its has nothing
>> to be a memorial about.
>>
And why not a VC10, Nimrod, Shackleton, a few tanks, the odd ship and submarine, where does it end? Also where does the funding come from? The armed forces are being run on a shoestring as it is. There is plenty of clapped out military kit around in museums if you want to kick some tyres.
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>>Trouble is, the Vulcan has no "glorious history", never seen any real action, and when it was actually used once in anger, it missed. For that reason, its has nothing to be a memorial about.>>
So what.
Some things are greater than the sum of the parts. The Vulcan, in company with the Spitfire, Comet and Concorde - can't immediately think of any other of similar standard - is a blueprint, to borrow a motoring praise, for grace, space and pace.
All are true icons. Beautiful, graceful and elegant and all designed decades ago.
If you think that it has nothing to be a memorial about, then presumably people all over the UK who turned out in their many, many hundreds of thousands this year and every other year the Vulcan has been on display, have got something seriously wrong?
Southport, which has only three main roads into the resort, had traffic jams for literally miles around for many hours before the start of its last two annual air shows, such is the adoration for the Vulcan and the Red Arrows. This year featured the final appearance of the bomber with the Red Arrows as an escort.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Tue 13 Oct 15 at 22:37
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>> So what.
>>
>> Some things are greater than the sum of the parts. The Vulcan, in company with
>> the Spitfire, Comet and Concorde - can't immediately think of any other of similar standard
>> - is a blueprint, to borrow a motoring praise, for grace, space and pace.
>>
>> All are true icons. Beautiful, graceful and elegant and all designed decades ago.
Indeed, and by the end of the month only the spit will be flying. Icons cost money, far too much to keep a comet, a concorde or a vulcan in the sky
>> If you think that it has nothing to be a memorial about, then presumably people
>> all over the UK who turned out in their many, many hundreds of thousands this
>> year and every other year the Vulcan has been on display, have got something seriously
>> wrong?
No they were not wrong, I was one of them, BUT if had not been the last flight do you think they would have turned out? No they wouldn't. It was heavily hyped in the press.
>> Southport, which has only three main roads into the resort, had traffic jams for literally
>> miles around for many hours before the start of its last two annual air shows,
>> such is the adoration for the Vulcan and the Red Arrows.
So what? You think the people of southport are prepared to diver their taxes from the NHS to the Vulcan memorial flight? Anyway sod all happens at southport, not surprised they all turned out.
You completely missed the question at hand and the answer to the question, which was about adding it to the memorial flight
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 13 Oct 15 at 22:42
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>>No they were not wrong, I was one of them, BUT if had not been the last flight do you think they would have turned out? No they wouldn't. It was heavily hyped in the press.>>
Nonsense. The Vulcan has always added many, many thousands to the attendance - it and the Red Arrows have always boosted the already high number of air show visitors from all over the North West and even further.
>So what? You think the people of southport are prepared to divert their taxes from the NHS to the Vulcan memorial flight? Anyway sod all happens at southport, not surprised they all turned out.>>
What on earth have the NHS and taxes got to do with it? At least two thirds of those attending watch free of charge, with the rest paying for enhanced viewing and parking areas on the beach.
As for "sod all happens at Southport", you are again way off the mark. Perhaps you should look at the annual list of attractions, including one of the country's most successful flower shows?
I'm sure that companies are not consistently seeking to build and open new hotels in the resort if there's "sod all happening".....
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 00:06
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>> As for "sod all happens at Southport", you are again way off the mark. Perhaps
>> you should look at the annual list of attractions, including one of the country's most
>> successful flower shows?
Yes. and?
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>>Yes. and?>>
As I said, you should check out the annual list of attractions. A taster:
www.visitsouthport.com/whats-on
The resort is currently in the middle of a 10 day adult and children's sell out annual comedy series, but the main holiday season is now drawing to a close.
But of course, as I've mentioned before, every website always has at least one contributor who seems to enjoy wallowing in a sea of negativity.....
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>> But of course, as I've mentioned before, every website always has at least one contributor
>> who seems to enjoy wallowing in a sea of negativity.....
And it always has one who's black cat is "always blacker than someone else's, despite the fact its decidedly grey.
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My black cat looks brown in strong sunlight. Does that count?
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>> My black cat looks brown in strong sunlight. Does that count?
Is it a Vauxhall cat?
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 12:15
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I'm allergic to cats. Although some on here will of course believe that it is merely attention seeking or some kind of phantom fashion to declare such an inconceivable condition. Next door's cat knows this and has fallen in love with me, and sits on my doormat every morning to greet me. At a former residence, a neighbours cat behaved similarly and used to deposit gifts of dead mice and birds at my door.
They know. The b*$t*%s
It's one of those grey jobs with black stripe effect.
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>> I'm allergic to cats.
Royal animals you know.
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That made me smile Alanovic! It's Karma....far worse than anyone on here could manage no matter how hard they tried:)
Pat
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>> such is the adoration for the Vulcan and the Red Arrows.>>
Adoration, do me a favour, it is the attraction of a spectacular airshow. The actual aircraft really don't matter, anything big, noisy, and fast will impress the punters.
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>> >> such is the adoration for the Vulcan and the Red Arrows.>>
>>
>> Adoration, do me a favour, it is the attraction of a spectacular airshow. The actual
>> aircraft really don't matter, anything big, noisy, and fast will impress the punters.
>
Oh i don't know, some of these spotter types get very excited about perticular types of aircraft.
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SQ
>> Oh i don't know, some of these spotter types get very excited about perticular types
>> of aircraft.
You think large crowds and the show of adoration for the Vulcan is something, you wait till next year. A certain steam train, LNER Class A3 no 4472 will be pounding BR metals again. You may say "so what"
No 4472 is "The Flying Scotsman"
The hype will start to build very soon now. If I put the video on here, no doubt a certain member will want to know how much I contributed to the overhaul.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 09:31
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>> You think large crowds and the show of adoration for the Vulcan is something, you
>> wait till next year. A certain steam train, LNER Class A3 no 4472 will be
>> pounding BR metals again. You may say "so what"
>>
>> No 4472 is "The Flying Scotsman"
>>
How many who turn out for the undoubtedly impressive show as 4472 thunders past will know its number, class, its wheel configuration, or even its name badge? To most it will be the unusual sight of a steam train.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 09:00
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>> >> No 4472 is "The Flying Scotsman"
>> >>
>>
>> How many who turn out for the undoubtedly impressive show as 4472 thunders past will
>> know its number, class, its wheel configuration, or even its name badge? To most it
>> will be the unusual sight of a steam train.
Perhaps I missed making the point. Its the Flying Scotsman. The most famous steam loco in the world. You are right they wont know its an A3, all they will know is the name. The name alone is enough.
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>> Its the Flying Scotsman. The most famous steam loco in the world.
In this country too? Just curious because although I do know the name, I don't know what it looks like, whereas Mallard I can picture instantly.
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How can you not know The Flying Scotsman? It was on Blue Peter.
I loved this episode. Amazing that it should have stuck with me for so long.
Zero - you'll enjoy Christopher Trace's intro...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFqK8pTreZ8
p.s. "The most famous steam loco in the world."?
It must be true, John Noakes said so.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 12:40
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Similarly to Focusless, I had to go on google images to remind myself of what the Flying Scotsman looked like. I can picture Mallard with ease, however.
I think Mallard is easily the most distinctive locomotive - if someone with such little interest in the subject as me can picture it ahead of FS.
It wouldn't surprise me though if many people confused the two - if you showed a picture of Mallard to 100 people, how many would say "Flying Scotsman", I wonder? FS is the most well known name, yes, but I bet there are significant numbers who couldn't identify it from a picture. It looks like just about any another nasty old puffer to be honest.
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It wouldn't surprise me though if many people confused the two - if you showed
>> a picture of Mallard to 100 people, how many would say "Flying Scotsman", I wonder?
>> FS is the most well known name, yes, but I bet there are significant numbers
>> who couldn't identify it from a picture. It looks like just about any another nasty
>> old puffer to be honest.
>>
I think I'd be the same tbh, without search i think i know what the mallard looks like. It's the sleek looking one from the 30s? Not sure about the fs. Much squarer and older i think. Namewise I'd say they were the same well known wise, but I'm not a spotter so it might be different if you are one.
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>> How can you not know The Flying Scotsman?
I have seen stuff about it in the past, perhaps even that Blue Peter episode. I guess it's just that in the last decade or 2 I've seen a lot more about Mallard, which to the non-expert is a lot more recognisable thanks to its streamlining.
So I suspect there might be more people like me now who if asked to name a steam engine might come up with Mallard before Flying Scotsman. Not that it matters :)
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>> >> Its the Flying Scotsman. The most famous steam loco in the world.
>>
>> In this country too? Just curious because although I do know the name, I don't
>> know what it looks like, whereas Mallard I can picture instantly.
I can understand that, mallard was in a very distinctive colour, garter blue, and was a unique shape. An A3 has none of those things. It looks like any other train.
The name however is Iconic, no other train has quite so much press or screen time over the years, press and exposure that makes that attached to the Vulcan seem like a a mere byword.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 12:51
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>>The name however is iconic...>
It is, along with its records breaking history. But Sir Nigel Gresley's Mallard design of the two is still stunning even today. Flying Scotsman news:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/19/flying-scotsman-restoration-nearing-completion
www.nrm.org.uk/flyingscotsman/scotsman-season.aspx
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Why is it named after a duck?
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There were quite a few A4s named after boids, the obvious ones such as falcon, kestrel, merlin, peregrine but also 'Herring Gull', 'Pochard' and 'Gannet' (ate up the miles, that one).
They started with a 'silver' theme, but must have realised after the first four that they hadn't thought it through and there were more birds than silver things to go at.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A4
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Interesting in a QI sort of way.
Shame Herring Gull was not the record holder. I kind of like that.
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>> Interesting in a QI sort of way.
>>
>> Shame Herring Gull was not the record holder. I kind of like that.
It could nick your fish and chips and crap on your car at 126 mph.
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You think large crowds and the show of adoration for the Vulcan is something, you wait till next year. A certain steam train, LNER Class A3 no 4472 will be pounding BR metals again. You may say "so what"
i would yes, mainly because it holds no interest at all to me. Although I'm sure train spotters would be interested in it, but not being one its not really anything of note to me, others I'm sure think differently.
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>> people all over the UK who turned out in their many, many hundreds of thousands this year and every other year the Vulcan has been on display, have got something seriously wrong?
How many of them contributed to keeping it flying?
I've been at two air shows this year where the Vulcan did a display. The last was seriously compromised as the pilot expressed reluctance due to the number of freeloaders in the fields surrounding the airfield. THOSE FIELDS WERE AN EMERGENCY SITE IN THE EVENT OF A PROBLEM. How many of those involved in the Shoreham incident had paid an entry fee?
There's a certain member of this site who freely advertises his videos on youtube. I wonder how much he's contributed to keeping it flying, compared to his earnings from his videos?
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>> There's a certain member of this site who freely advertises his videos on youtube. I
>> wonder how much he's contributed to keeping it flying, compared to his earnings from his
>> videos?
Before you start chucking "freeloader" comments about, maybe you should ask "has he actually recouped the cost of his petrol in getting to and making these videos"
The answer my gobby friend is No.
Oh I gave you a scowly, for being an unjustifiably obnoxious git.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 08:15
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>> How many of those involved in the Shoreham incident had paid an entry fee?
Probably very few, seeing as the majority, if not all of the casualties were driving along the A27 at the time rather than watching the air show.
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>> seeing as the majority, if not all of the casualties were driving
or cycling
>> along the A27 at the time
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>> Trouble is, the Vulcan has no "glorious history", never seen any real action, and when
>> it was actually used once in anger, it missed.
In fairness they did hit their targets, not all of them but they didn't miss them all either.
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>> In fairness they did hit their targets,
Did they? you sure? and if one bomb did hit, the result was?
I suspect the Vulcan raid was less about the actual target and more about "projection of power from the uk"
And not just for Argentinian consumption either.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Oct 15 at 08:33
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> Did they? you sure? and if one bomb did hit, the result was?
Yes they did. It damaged the runway it needed quite extensive repairs after the war by the RE team sent to do the repairs. It denied them the ability to extend the runway. It was an attack from an unexpected axis and something they hadn't thought they now had to think about. This was especially true for the later sead sorties. They didn't have free reign as and when to use their radars which were important in tracking air movements.
>>
>> I suspect the Vulcan raid was less about the actual target and more about "projection of power from the uk"
>>
>> And not just for Argentinian consumption either.
Actions unexpected often have a psychological impact during war. However i don't think that was at the forefront of anyone's mind. More a case of if we can do it let's do it.
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>> > Did they? you sure? and if one bomb did hit, the result was?
>>
>> Yes they did. It damaged the runway it needed quite extensive repairs after the war
>> by the RE team sent to do the repairs. It denied them the ability to
>> extend the runway. It was an attack from an unexpected axis and something they hadn't
>> thought they now had to think about. This was especially true for the later sead
>> sorties. They didn't have free reign as and when to use their radars which were
>> important in tracking air movements.
A single crater was produced on the runway, rendering it impossible for the airfield to be used by fast jets. Argentine ground crew repaired the runway within twenty-four hours, to a level of quality suitable for the C-130 Hercules and Aermacchi MB-339 light attack jets.
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A single crater was produced on the runway, rendering it impossible for the airfield to
>> be used by fast jets. Argentine ground crew repaired the runway within twenty-four hours, to
>> a level of quality suitable for the C-130 Hercules and Aermacchi MB-339 light attack jets.
A copy and paste from wiki? They did perform a series of temp repairs that allowed limited use of the airfield. I think they even got a Lear jet in but i think that was before black buck.
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The other point was, yes the runway could be mended. But we (the Argentinians) did, the Brits could bomb it again. I think the fact the British could do it, and had illustrated the fact meant far more than a few holes.
Anyone who had read up or taken part in the raid knows that from a logistical point of view, the raid was a nightmare. Far too many things could have gone wrong.
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tinyurl.com/nurw6kv
Nice pictures (sorry - from DM)
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For those who doubt the iconic status of the Vulcan:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KWw3kGGo_E
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PS
"This day in 1961, eight RAF Vulcans simulated a Russian attack on US missile silos as part of Operation Skyshield II. They entered US airspace at 56,000 ft – above the USAF B-52s – having successfully evaded the American Convair interceptors.
"The US military was astonished when one of the Vulcans landed at Plattsburgh Air Force Base. A year earlier, the Vulcan’s agility had allowed them to reach US targets bellow the RADAR, at treetop level.
"A tremendous achievement for the Vulcan crews whose tactics were masterful, and for the engineers whose aircraft and electronic countermeasures proved to be the world’s finest. The Americans were denying it until 1999>"
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>> For those who doubt the iconic status of the Vulcan:
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KWw3kGGo_E
A fascinating view of 1960's US airports and planes. As well as early jets there are Constellations, Fokker/Fairchild F27 and early Electra and what I suspect is a Martin 404 - twin prop with a tail airstair. But is the Vulcan hidden somewhere?
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For something to be iconic it has to be more than popular or famous it has to be representative of something else. The Eiffel Tower for example is iconic: it represents Paris .
Now a Spitfire symbolises the Battle of Britain and the Lancaster represents Bomber Command and all those who died in the war.
Not sure that a Vulcan bomber represents anything much.
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>> Not sure that a Vulcan bomber represents anything much.
Cold war? Pinnacle of an era in UK aviation - before the forced mergers of the sixties and then nationalisation?
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Do people's see a Vulcan bomber and think that? Aviation enthusiasts might I suppose but most of the population just see a big noisy plane I suspect. I do.
It may be of historical interest but non an icon
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Agree but, in fact, it was the Hurricane that proved more successful during the Battle of Britain than the Spitfire as it won 60 per cent of the air battles....:-)
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And that in itself is mis-leading. Although I think Hurricanes outnumbered Spitfires in the early stages of the war, the type of construction was key. Much of the Hurricane is fabric over a wood frame, whereas the Spitfire is a stressed metal frame and skin. As a result, a Hurricane with a hole in it might continue flying whereas the same damage to a Spitfire is much more critical and it could well crash. Also, if both planes land ok, the Hurricane is repairable with simple and quick methods, whereas the Spitfire takes more facilities and a lot longer.
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>> And that in itself is mis-leading. Although I think Hurricanes outnumbered Spitfires in the early
>> stages of the war, the type of construction was key. Much of the Hurricane is
>> fabric over a wood frame, whereas the Spitfire is a stressed metal frame and skin.
>> As a result, a Hurricane with a hole in it might continue flying whereas the
>> same damage to a Spitfire is much more critical and it could well crash. Also,
>> if both planes land ok, the Hurricane is repairable with simple and quick methods, whereas
>> the Spitfire takes more facilities and a lot longer.
The hurry could also be built in numerous furniture factories, using a large workforce with the required skills, and not very specialised tooling. And build loads of them, cheaply, they did. 15,000 of them.
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Last week I attended a talk about metal fatigue in aircraft.
It was about the Comet and the Dreamliner.
I was amazed how fantastic the Comet was . 10 to 15 years ahead of the world in so many areas. In that era of goodwill we passed All our info to the USA.
It was stated that if we had not done that the Americans would have found out the hard way and would have lost aircraft for the same reasons as the Comet.
It pioneered so much that became the norm in aircraft construction etc.
It would be lauded if joe public understood how advanced it was.
Including the Nimrod it was around for 62 years and probably would have become the first aircraft in service for 100 years. It looks like the B52 will take that crown.
p.s The wing tips of a Dreamliner flex up to 15 feet in" normal" flight but can flex up to 25 feet.
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>> It was stated that if we had not done that the Americans would have found
>> out the hard way and would have lost aircraft for the same reasons as the
>> Comet.
Not strictly true, the investigation into comet disasters did not start till late 1954. Boeing had already built and flown the Boeing 367-80, (which became the 707). Swept wings, pod mounted engines and more importantly round stress free windows (all comet shortcomings) had already been designed in before the comet failures were known.
>> probably would have become the
>> first aircraft in service for 100 years.
You seriously suggesting a comet based airframe would still be in active service in 2049, 34 years from now? That is extremely far fetched.
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Not sure that a Vulcan bomber represents anything much.
>>
>>
>>
>>
I'd agree partially with brompt, it's representative of the cold war. But that's it i don't think anyone thinks of manufacturing or nationalisation.
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>> I'd agree partially with brompt, it's representative of the cold war. But that's it i
>> don't think anyone thinks of manufacturing or nationalisation.
Too much detail on my part. Key bit was pinnacle of Brit design/manufacture.
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It's a wonderful aircraft, but just on the cusp of being after its time before all kinds of electronically-controlled missiles and such took over.
Typically British in a way.
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Guy Martin: Last Flight of the Vulcan Bomber
Sunday 7:30pm, Channel 4
www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martin-last-flight-of-the-vulcan-bomber
Saw a trailer yesterday which made it look better than the description in the link implies.
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I saw what was probably the same trailer and set the PVR.
If my theory's right about the earlier and more a program's advertised, then the worse it is, this looks promising.
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My PVR decided to only record this program from 8:00 to 9:00pm.
I can't find it repeated anywhere in the schedule this week. Did I miss much?
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"Did I miss much?"
It was as much about the gurning Guy Martin as it was about the Vulcan. There was some interesting footage and information, but the thing should have been done in 60 rather than 90 minutes.
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I think Guy Martin is one of these Marmite presenters, you either like him or you dislike him.
Personally I like him and enjoyed the programme immensely. 90 minutes was about right for me
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I like him. He's a biker so that's a head start. He has a love of what he's tasked to do and has a deep understanding of it. Better than any dumb soap star (that dreadful fellow that got a kicking from the equally dreadful Rebekah Brooks springs to mind)
It's repeated all over C4 different streams including E4 in the next week or so.
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Guy Martin is a nutter, but a likeable one. Probably the only TV presenter who could fix a lorry.
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"Guy Martin is a nutter,"
These days, with the poor concentration span of the average viewer, television has to find slightly nutty presenters for anything involving science or engineering, or anything of a vaguely 'academic' nature. At least GM is a genuine enthusiast.
I suppose one of the ultimate presenters must have been the late Sir Patrick Moore who was not only nutty, but knew what he was talking about.
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>>I can't find it repeated anywhere in the schedule this week. Did I miss much?>>
One repeat is on Friday, December 4th, on 4seven at 7-30pm. There's also the CatchUp service.
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We watched it last night on All4 - much improved recently and now approaching iPlayer for quality. 72 minutes without the ads - although the continuous presentation rather highlights the repetitions for the short attention span.
It's still a bit long, to be honest. Guy Martin grew on me a little as a presenter, but he's no Alan Titchmarsh and 40 minutes in his company would have been plenty.
Most interesting to me were the recollections of former Vulcan crews, and especially their thoughts on the meaning of the job they might have had to do.
And it repeats itself.
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I agree with the commentary - crap. GM is clearly Marmite that's fine. I love his sayings and gestures. I can see why he didn't want to do Top Gear. He's niche.
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Hey - we could use that Vulcan to bomb ISIL in Syria!
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I was thinking that when I was watching the programme...a low pass would be enough
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Last flight of the Vulcan - R.P.
