So a week ago I mailed Greene King to complain that my local (www.threefrogs-wokingham.co.uk/ ), which has an ever expanding restaurant, is being taken over by kids. The latest extension took away a small part of the garden but added a considerable number of extra tables in the restaurant. This is the second extension to the restaurant in the past 10 years or so.
Now I didn't have a problem when people brought their families to the restaurant - my buddies and I could sit in the bar areas and have a reasonably quiet pint (except the few times that Dad's thought it fun to chase their screaming offspring thru the pub).
But the most recent extension has opened up the pub area even more, and now families are just sitting anywhere in the pub to eat, even though there appear to be free tables in the restaurant. There appears to be no policy that families should be in the restaurant area only. My gripe isn't just with those who have badly behaved kids - in my view this is a pub and you should be over 18 to be in there.
I guess I am in a grumpy minority with my views, but I see that our favourite rag has an article today on the topic www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3220364/The-end-quiet-pint-Noisy-naughty-children-ruining-pubs-say-regulars-want-landlords-stand-parents.html
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 3 Sep 15 at 21:36
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Unruly children shouting, screaming and running around are spoiling pub visits, it has been claimed.
The main complaint from regulars this year has been about badly behaved youngsters, the latest Good Pub Guide reveals.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shopping-and-consumer-news/11840886/Screaming-children-spoiling-pub-visits-says-Good-Pub-Guide-2016.html
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 3 Sep 15 at 15:25
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sorry - I can see the DT and DM are just reporting the same thing (Good Pub Guide)
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I agree 100% smokie but please don't blame the children. It's the badly behaved parents at fault.
They have a perfect opportunity to take their children out and teach them how to behave properly in adult company/environment but prefer to allow them to annoy everyone else while they enjoy their 'freedom' from them.
I made a point (on a very limited budget) of teaching my son, when he was a child, how to deal with a 'posh' restaurant, and how to behave but sadly no-one realises these days just how much value this has later in life.
The children we see in pubs and restaurants are either left to run wild or given a tablet to play computer games to keep them quiet....it drives me mad.
Why miss such a golden opportunity but then again, so many parents sit a a dinner table updating Facebook and Twitter, so is it any wonder?
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Thu 3 Sep 15 at 15:35
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, so many parents sit a a
>> dinner table updating Facebook and Twitter, so is it any wonder?
>>
A few weeks ago I watched a couple in a restaurant, no children, who spent the entire meal in silence playing with their phones. Perhaps they were "talking" to each other - or perhaps not.
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One of my local pubs has a lovely SW facing beer garden. Unfortunately I have to steer clear on Friday & Saturday evenings. Screaming children tearing around on scooters. It can be equally bad inside, with unsupervised children left to run screaming around the pool table. The young bar staff do nothing to halt such bad behaviour, and as Pat correctly says it is entirely the fault of the parents.
Fortunately we have other pubs to visit, where poorly behaved children are not countenanced. I have an elderly friend who is not very PC and makes his feelings known to the parents before leaving and going drinking elsewhere. Most of the time they are visitors as we do not recognise the parent.
Personally I think they should be barred from 'tap ' and all bar areas, and under teenage age should not be allowed on the premises after 6pm. Which is when we go early doors drinking.
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And another thing. I often see adults in my local pubs, holiday makers normally, who never say a word to be another. Heads down, playing with this phones/tablets. In fact only last week I saw a family of four in my local. Hardly a word was spoken between them in the hour they were there. No discussing what they had done that day, or what they would to the following. Pathetic specimens.
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> Personally I think they should be barred from 'tap ' and all bar areas, and
>> under teenage age should not be allowed on the premises after 6pm. Which is when
>> we go early doors drinking.
>>
I remember taps rooms maybe 10 years ago bring men only in some places. Children would have be unthinkable in there. Probably all gone now.
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The children we see in pubs and restaurants are either left to run wild or
>> given a tablet to play computer games to keep them quiet....it drives me mad.
>>
Ive seen that more often, i sometimes think it's the modern version of a colouring book but then sometimes it's seems a bit more absorbing than that.
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There's two different issues;
Children in the parts of the pub that they have access to should behave.
I prefer Children not have access to the whole pub.
Sometimes I just don't want to be around children, I want to be drinking with adults. Adult conversations, behaviour and activities (drinking).
Still, ultimately its down to the Landlord and I just don't use pubs which don't suit me.
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"... I just don't use pubs which don't suit me" - absolutely agree but it's annoying because this is my local, and is walkable, but anywhere else would be a bit of a trek (getting on for a mile each way).
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(getting on for a mile each way).
>>
Still pretty close. I think the 4 nearest me are all about a mile away.
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Yeah, spose I'm spoilt really. There are probably 7 or 8 within a mile. But they are the town centre pubs which get busy. I liked it when my local was just a boozer :-)
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>> Yeah, spose I'm spoilt really. There are probably 7 or 8 within a mile.
That is quite a lot especially these days. I suppose some big towns and cities have that many so closer together.
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>> (getting on for a mile each way)
And about a mile and a half coming back.
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>> "... I just don't use pubs which don't suit me" - absolutely agree but it's
>> annoying because this is my local, and is walkable, but anywhere else would be a
>> bit of a trek (getting on for a mile each way).
Clearly he is making more money from families eating than your half a mild every three days. And there is the rub, the "pub" you and I remember is dead and it aint coming back.
(except in certain city centre locations - and even then its getting rare)
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Not necessarily so Zero
One of my regular haunts has all the traits of an old fashioned boozer. It changed hands at the end of 2014. Stopped doing food. Two regular decent beers, plus a third guest beer. Two decent lagers plus Guinness, and an excellent selection of reasonably priced wines, bottled beers, spirits and soft drinks at sensible prices ie 2 bottles of schweppes Tonic with ice n lemon @ £2.50 which I am told is decent value. Beers are £2.90 pint, buy 6 get one free with the ongoing loyalty scheme ( no time limit) = £2.50 pint. I can walk in and always meet someone I know. Free newspapers...Yorks Post, Times, local rag. You can request any streamed music, or ask for it to be turned off! Dogs welcome, hikers and muddy hoots, crisps & nuts, no children, free Wifi and three minutes from Settle station. My kinda place.
Quite a few local micro pubs opening up... The Snug on Carnforth station would be right up your street. Decent beer, good conversation, never seen a child in there. A perfect Sunday lunchtime jaunt from Giggleswick station.
I could list half a dozen, at least, similar establishments, all in my locality.
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Not blaming the children Pat but it's not just the badly behaved ones. I'm not as grumpy (or as old!) as I might sound, but I do think they could devote some space to be completely child-free.
The pub in question is large enough and they could fairly easily restrict families to, say, the right hand side of the main entrance door (which includes some of the pub and all of the restaurant).
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Funny enough smokie, the only one to do that effectively near us is the Marston's 'Two for One' typepoub which I'm not normally keen on but after a hectic day at work when all you want is peace and quiet and 'food', it's where we head to!
Pat
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Please excuse the typo above.....I'm in panic mode!
I'm expecting the in-laws to arrive any minute from Scarborough and I'm trying to cook diner for them tonight:(
Please can I eat out forever.....please?
I hate cooking but more than that I hate cooking for 'other' people.
Pat
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>>> I'm trying to cook diner for them tonight<<<
tinyurl.com/patcookingdiner
but how do you choose which diner to cook for other people?
My first idea was to visualise a spit roast (a la hog) but Google at your own risk!
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Thu 3 Sep 15 at 16:58
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I told you I was in a panic!
We would have eaten out but my MIL has MS and doesn't travel well, so as I appreciate the supreme effort made to come and see us for a few days, it's the least I can do.
They're exploring Ely tomorrow while I'm at work and taking us for lunch after I finish work on Saturday so that just leaves Sunday to panic about again, but I'm sort of OK with Roast Beef and Aunt Bessies yorkies:)
To be fair, they know I'm dodgy with cooking and they always eat it all and 'appear' to enjoy it but I know how 'posh' and well bred they are:)
Pat
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>> Please can I eat out forever.....please?
>>
>> I hate cooking but more than that I hate cooking for 'other' people.
>>
Does your OH not cook?
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Yes, he does, and loves it.
He cooks all weekend but he left for work this morning at 2.30am and will roll in the door at 6.15pm so I wouldn't expect him to do it after a long shift like that.
Pat
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>> Yes, he does, and loves it.
>>
>> He cooks all weekend but he left for work this morning at 2.30am and will
>> roll in the door at 6.15pm so I wouldn't expect him to do it after
>> a long shift like that.
>>
I suppose i wouldn't want to cook after so long away.
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I don't think small children should be in pubs, on the whole.
Even if under control or well behaved, they are out of place in a bar area. In fact I'm not even sure they can legally be there - or has the law changed?
My local pub is terrible for this, especially on Sundays. They do food, but it's not really a restaurant pub and there are several sets of parents who think that it is acceptable to be vertically drinking, laughing at the bar while the children are running around and annoying people who are sitting and eating. I just won't go.
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I often take my children to the pub for a meal. They would not, not ever, run or make noise in the pub and more than I would let them do so in a restaurant, shop or hotel. That type of behaviour is just obnoxious and inconsiderate.
However, even with their behaviour and even in my local, I would not let them be in the bar area; its just not appropriate. Any pub we eat in has a dining area which is, at least to some degree, separated from the bar.
I do not let them use electronics when out and actually with us at the table, although I do allow them to read or write after they've finished eating. If they wish to go and sit in the garden and play on their phone/tablet, that's up to them. I don't know why the difference, I guess books don;t annoy me in the same way that a phone does.
If I am eating in a pub without my children, then other people's well behaved children do not bother me.
However, any children, mine or not, well behaved or not, in the bar area annoy the hell out of me.
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Sometimes people have to take their small children with them. It's all right if the children are fairly well behaved and under some sort of parental control (not that of parents intimidated by the place who hit their children and make them cry).
Generally speaking, the more expensive the place the fewer children there will be. Perhaps they are also better behaved sometimes too having more competent parents if they are lucky.
My middle daughter got married in a parish church. She already had two children, one of whom ran up and down the aisle shouting 'BUM BUM BUM!' until I made her sit on my knee. Nippers are brilliant at demystifying religion.
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:)
Nothing fazes you, does it Lud?!
Pat
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>>Generally speaking, the more expensive the place the fewer children there will be. Perhaps
>>they are also better behaved sometimes too having more competent parents if they are lucky.
Sometimes. The wealthiest children are as neglected and ill-behaved as the urchins. Poor things, both lots of them. You wonder why some people bother having them.
Personally, I don't mind well-behaved children anywhere, bar areas, smart restaurants or anything. Ill-behaved children are a ghastly addition to any environment.
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>The wealthiest children are as neglected and ill-behaved as the urchins
Absolutely. Often worse.
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>> >>The wealthiest children are as neglected and ill-behaved as the urchins
They can be. I don't need to be told, believe me! That was what I meant by 'sometimes'.
However, they are more likely to have intellectual resources, to be carrying a book. And more likely to emulate the conduct of their elders when in a formal or semi-formal setting. More imbued with adult cunning.
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>>More imbued with adult cunning.
No, that's the urchins...
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It should not be beyond the wit of pub-restaurant managers and owners to come up with a suitably discreet system whereby adult couples and groups dine in one area of the premises and families with small children in another.
Mrs HM and I often go out for Sunday lunch, since it's usually the only full day we get together due to work; we tend to avoid places which go out of their way to attract familes with play areas etc, and always ask the staff if they can seat us in a quiet area. If the pub has seats adjacent to the bar area we normally plump for them since it's more likely to be kid-free. Neither of us mind kids (I have five grandchildren of my own) but we prefer our quality time together to be unspoiled by the noisier excesses of same.
Best place we've found for a balance of value for money, good food and a relaxed atmosphere is the local rugby club. I would be willing to patronise any establishment which specifically catered for adult diners but I daresay it would be condemned by libertarians who would go there simply to be offended.
It's not just the noise that puts me off. I'm constantly appalled by the reluctance (or perhaps it's inability) of modern parents to instill the most basic of etiquette and good table manners into their offspring.
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>> >> More imbued with adult cunning.
>> No, that's the urchins...
There are two distinct sorts of adult cunning in play here. They aren't the same.
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>> My middle daughter got married in a parish church. She already had two children, one
>> of whom ran up and down the aisle shouting 'BUM BUM BUM!'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSrXqOI9988
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>> had two children, one of whom ran up and down the aisle shouting 'BUM BUM BUM!' until I made her sit on my knee.
Actually she had three, and the culprit in this case was the youngest, a year old and just able to walk unaided. She was always an advanced child, super-cute then as she remains to this day, although now she's seven.
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smokie, you said you emailed Greene King did you speak to the manager in the place and ask what the plans are for the place?
While legacylad has a local that appears to be having a go to strike a balance between keeping the locals happy and catering for tourists, Zero describes what is happening to a lot more urban pubs which are now restaurants that will still sell you a pint of they're not too busy.
More money in £20 or £30 a head tables than two or three pints two or three times/week and it appears to be what the majority want until the next series of Xfactor/Strictly or whatever starts.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 4 Sep 15 at 05:58
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I absolutely understand the economics from the pub's point of view, especially as I am not a very frequent regular, but that doesn't stop it being irritating from mine.
The manager has never there recently when I am otherwise I would have spoken to him. The email to Greene King was actually a Contact Us page on the website I listed above which I thought would go to the pub not to Greene King.
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A well worded Trip Advisor post may make a difference.
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There is (or was) a guide called "The Quiet Pint". Pubs in it alowed no noise apart from conversation. How about a "Kids-free Pint"? Listed pubs would allow no children, unless in a completly separate area.
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Music can be far worse than the odd sprog.
Went to a meeting in the pub here one Wednesday night a few years ago. The music made it very difficult to hear each other so we asked for it to be turned off.
Barmaid (who was a mature lady and shown have known better) said "I'm sorry, I'm listening to it".
She was told her horoscope (no customers, no job) and changed her mind.
I think she probably took the polite question "do you mind if we have the music off?" too literally.
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>> Music can be far worse than the odd sprog.
They can be both as bad as the other.
In my last local in London, there was one particular speaker that was worse than the others, it always seemed to be on just that too loudly.
The staff could vary the volume on individual speakers quite easily, but for some reason you kept having to ask about this particular one... I suspect because it was slightly further away from the bar, they'd have it higher so they could hear it.
Anyway one of the builders sorted it.... cut the wire in half.
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>> Music can be far worse than the odd sprog.
Absolutely. One of my main uses of pubs in London is getting together with friends and former colleagues. None of us are getting any younger and several have less than perfect hearing. Two of the women have very soft voices, one naturally so the other as a result of illness.
Last thing we want is loud music - even if we all agreed it was good music.
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Some friends of mine used to go to a pub in the middle of Adelaide Road, near where they lived. It was a large place, with different areas inside. When the landlord died his widow took over, an aggressive woman from Glasgow. Although there were several tall council blocks nearby, the pub was hardly ever full or anything like it.
I went there with them one night. Very loud boring muzak made conversation difficult. One of my friends asked the landlady politely if the speakers could perhaps be turned down a bit in the part of the room we were in. She stared at him with little red-rimmed eyes and said: 'If you want a quiet pub you can go somewhere else.' You have to understand that these friends were there drinking beer four nights a week, spending significant sums of money week in week out.
I was so flabbergasted by the woman's piggishness and lack of commercial nous that I burst out laughing.
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>> I was so flabbergasted by the woman's piggishness and lack of commercial nous that I
>> burst out laughing.
>>
My local here has that way about it.. not with music though.
I kid you not, a good friend of mine has been banned by the landlady's daughter for asking the landlady 'are you the new business prevention manager'.
The mate lives abroad but also keeps a house here, is a regional director of a huge international company, earns a 6 figure sum and used to spend a fortune in there on his many visits back to the U.K.
I could understand it if he was caught dealing drugs in the loo or was caught fighting or something.
Many locals won't use it.. however it's too convenient for me, I don't like driving.
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>> Many locals won't use it.. however it's too convenient for me, I don't like driving.
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Sounds like a place doing well. I've places similar so well they can ban people at the drop of a hat and not care about the lost income.
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I've been banned from the same pub a couple of times:
The landlord complained about his water rates - I told him the solution was obvious........................
A barmaid was complaining about the irritation from a label in the neck of her t-shirt - I asked if she'd borrowed it from her Welsh flatmate called Evans.................................................
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>> Sounds like a place doing well. I've places similar so well they can ban people
>> at the drop of a hat and not care about the lost income.
>>
Well that's the thing... it isn't really... and being the only pub in my village I'd like it to remain.
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Unfortunately many landlords don't understand that the pub is run for the benefit of the customers, not the staff.
Our 'local' near the office has a pair of morons behind the bar who seem to think that Trace, a soul/RnB tv station, is a suitable soundtrack to lunchtimes. At THEIR preferred volume.
In addition, requests for sports coverage will end up getting maybe one of the 4 tvs put onto said sport, and the speakers staying on the music soundtrack.
Ridiculous.
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The smoking ban unfortunately brought more families into the pubs. I like to go to the pub to get away from kids. I have to go outside for my smoke, which means I can spend most of my pub time outside. I wonder how many of those people who moaned about smoking in pubs actually go to them now. My guess is a relatively modest percentage.
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>> The smoking ban unfortunately brought more families into the pubs. I like to go to
>> the pub to get away from kids. I have to go outside for my smoke,
>> which means I can spend most of my pub time outside. I wonder how many
>> of those people who moaned about smoking in pubs actually go to them now. My
>> guess is a relatively modest percentage.
I don't go any more (or less). It's great though to get home without my clothes and hair reeking of fags.
And a good friend of mine met the man who's now her husband in the outside smoking area of a pub.
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It's great though to get home without my
>> clothes and hair reeking of fags.
Same here, they used to leave a foul smell.
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I prefer pubs as non-smoking places, although I don;t feel strongly about it.
>> I wonder how many of those people who moaned about smoking in pubs actually go to them now.
But I do hate that those sanctimonious, do-gooder, whingers who were never going to go to pubs whether they were smoking or not felt that they had some success.
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>> But I do hate that those sanctimonious, do-gooder, whingers who were never going to go
>> to pubs whether they were smoking or not felt that they had some success.
>>
Quite agree; my guess is that they don't and never had the intention of doing so; they just cannot abide the idea of others enjoying themselves.
I now give a wide berth to pubs which don't allow the use of e-cigs, this currently being a purely free choice; though if a few Puritans in the Welsh Assembly get their way this may yet change down here. If that happens regrettably the rest will probably follow with the predictably craven excuse that it's "safer".
One of the unintentional benefits of allowing smoking in pubs of course was that most people with children didn't (for perfectly sensible and laudable reasons) usually bring their kids into such places, thus enhancing the pub experience for the smokers.
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We use pubs quite a lot. Mainly for meals but occasionally for a drink or sometimes just a cup of coffee. Used to dislike smoking in pubs and my wife would never venture in a pub where smoking was allowed.
Can't say I have ever really encountered a problem with children in pubs and indeed quite like to see families eating out together. The dislike of children in eating establishments is an oddly English phenomenon. Can't see any problem with children in pubs at lunch times or early evenings which is the usual arrangement
There are drinking pubs that do 't serve food where children would not be appropriate but there are not many of them about these days and I doubt that many would want to take thier child in them anyway.
Tip to those who wish to pubs identify pubs targeting the family market.
They often have plastic dinosaurs in the garden and signs that say things like " Kids Eat Free". :-)
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No kids in pub tonight. It's was the start of the doms league season, quiz league Monday, Darts weds, pool Thursday.
Don't expect to see any screamers until Friday, and as I havea big walk planned for Saturday will probably have a night off. No tourists currently midweek so just the locals, although it's always nice to chat with visitors at the weekend. Being on the route of the Way of the Roses ( cyclists) and in 3 Peaks country we have plenty of those. We try not to giggle when the badly chaffed, blistered 3Peakers shuffle up t'bar.
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There were less families in my local last weekend, I guess the schools are back.
CGN - you say "The dislike of children in eating establishments..." - traditionally pubs were drinking establishments not eating ones. I think I said early on that I was (reluctantly) OK with the evolution in my local in the ever growing restaurant area, all I really would like is for a piece of the pub to be set aside for the original purpose without kids. I really don't think that is unreasonable or even intolerant, especially when the restaurant area is so large and has vacant tables.
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In Chile to eat with children during the day is common, much less is in the evening.
I do think that the Chilean children are therefore more used to eating out with adults and the parents are more used to coping with it.
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Children in pubs - Focusless
