Perhaps quite literally.....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34031785
For better or worse, do we think?
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I was listening to the cricket the other day on LW. First time I have done that for a number of years.
And we had to break for the shipping forecast.
My mind thought of a modern trawler, laden to the gunnels with electronics and satellite data feeds, and i thought.
And I concluded there and then that the Long Wave shipping forecast was ancient and unneeded.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 23 Aug 15 at 10:24
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>> My mind thought of a modern trawler, laden to the gunnels with electronics and satellite
>> data feeds, and i thought.
>>
>> And I concluded there and then that the Long Wave shipping forecast was ancient and
>> unneeded.
>>
ISTR an article in the guardian a few years ago examining the point. Probably true if they've got sattelite feeds etc shipping can access this and other information at any time. Not sure how common such kit is amongst smaller fishing vessels never mind hobby sailors. Mobile data, even basic stuff, never mind 3/4G, goes down pretty quickly once you're off shore.
The shipping forecast is provided by the Met Office for the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. The BBC are just the broadcaster. The information therein is same as that on web and other sources and there's probably little real cost in providing a printed template for the BBC continuity announcer to read out.
Too bad if it interrupts Eddie Mair or the test match.
The full versions around 05:15 and 00:45 are, I think, broadcast on VHF as well.
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Never mind the weather forecast, can't live without "Sailing By"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFdas-kMF74
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>> Too bad if it interrupts Eddie Mair or the test match.
What? Stuff the sailors, TMS is the only thing I listen to on the radio. Least they could do is wait until there is a drinks break.
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>> ISTR an article in the guardian a few years ago examining the point. Probably true
>> if they've got sattelite feeds etc shipping can access this and other information at any
>> time. Not sure how common such kit is amongst smaller fishing vessels never mind hobby
>> sailors. Mobile data, even basic stuff, never mind 3/4G, goes down pretty quickly once you're
>> off shore.
Take sea area "bailey" you can be 400 miles from the nearest landfall there, it can take you over two days to get there, hobby sailors don't do it, and if you are going there you have the appropriate kit, which these days is a very small proportion of the overall cost of running a boat.
Hobby sailors or fishermen without the kit don't go out for long periods of time, so the last sea forecast obtained on shore is sufficient.
>> and other sources and there's probably little real cost in providing a printed template for
>> the BBC continuity announcer to read out.
There is real cost involved in broadcast, at a time when the budget is under pressure, so its sensible to stop services that are no longer used or required.
Sorry your argument doesn't float on any level.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 23 Aug 15 at 12:19
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>> There is real cost involved in broadcast, at a time when the budget is under
>> pressure, so its sensible to stop services that are no longer used or required.
While Bailey is a long way out its neighbour areas of Malin and Hebrides have their share of both hobby sailors and small scale fishing. More so the Channel or Lundy. The full forecast at 05:20/00:50 includes, as well as sea areas and weather reports from coastal stations, an inshore specific forecast. I think that is a recent innovation for the users I've mentioned.
The question is whether it's still used/required. If so then the relatively small cost can be justified. The MCA are presumably looking at that on a regular basis and will better placed than somebody who's had his cricket interrupted to decide if/when to discontinue.
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Long wave R4 will cease at some point anyway. Quite literally the valves for the transmitters are no longer made. The company that own the transmitters have bought up all the remaining stocks they could get their paws on, and when they are gone, that's it.
Few companies these days make high powered transmitters, and probably no-one at all would make a long wave ones as there is no market, and a longwave transmitter imposes unique problems (related to the Q of the circuits - and no, I cannot explain here).
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>> Long wave R4 will cease at some point anyway. Quite literally the valves for the
>> transmitters are no longer made. The company that own the transmitters have bought up all
>> the remaining stocks they could get their paws on, and when they are gone, that's
>> it.
>>
I've heard mention of this before, couple of years ago. Personally I'm not bothered about the shipping forecast but I do enjoy TMS; surely it is not beyond the wit of the BBC to broadcast the latter on another FM frequency, or even on MW? I'm aware that it's available via internet and digital but there's still a sizeable audience out there who listen on the move and don't have access to those two formats.
Speaking of which, SP, is MW subject to a similar life expectancy as LW or are they different animals?
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>> I've heard mention of this before, couple of years ago. Personally I'm not bothered about
>> the shipping forecast but I do enjoy TMS; surely it is not beyond the wit
>> of the BBC to broadcast the latter on another FM frequency,
IIRC it's usually on the digital only 5 live extra. Finding a suitable MW or VHF frequency would, I suspet be difficult or controversial.
This listener to 5Live resents the Drive programme's disappearance during Wimbledon fortnight. the idea of losing it for every test match ODI or 20/20 would be intolerable.
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>> This listener to 5Live resents the Drive programme's disappearance during Wimbledon fortnight. the idea of
>> losing it for every test match ODI or 20/20 would be intolerable.
>>
Isn't 5live a sports channel ?
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News and sports. News is interpreted liberally to include Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo's film programme on Friday's and well as Drive
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>> News and sports. News is interpreted liberally to include Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo's film
>> programme on Friday's and well as Drive
Well I don't think there is another sports channel on FM, so TMS will have to go somewhere, that seems the best channel, when as above LW finally goes.
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>> Well I don't think there is another sports channel on FM, so TMS will have
>> to go somewhere, that seems the best channel, when as above LW finally goes.
TMS will have to disappear. There is simply no place in this modern communication age for a sports program that hogs a radio channel for a continuous 8 hour block. A few people will writhe and scream and complain bitterly, but at the end of the day the audience for it is disappearing and on a constant decline. A pity, at times in its (and my) history its been a source of delight and wonder but alas no longer*. When Boycott kicks the bucket the last real character will be gone.
*For example I listened to it for the first time in about three years
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 23 Aug 15 at 13:23
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I hope not I quite like listening to the cricket live. It's the only thing I really use the radio for. You can keep up with score online but it's not the same. I don't know about the listeners, what is the decline like?
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>>TMS will have to disappear. There is simply no place in this modern communication age for a sports program that hogs a radio channel for a continuous 8 hour block. A few people will writhe and scream and complain bitterly, but at the end of the day the audience for it is disappearing and on a constant decline. A pity, at times in its (and my) history its been a source of delight and wonder but alas no longer*. When Boycott kicks the bucket the last real character will be gone.
Sad, but unfortunately true. I have very fond memories of it and The Shipping Forecast.
I know it makes sense, and I know the audience is dwindling. But I don't like things like this changing and so they shouldn't.
So there.
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You are still listening on medium wave? Get a DAB radio for your car. Your life will be transformed. Unlike MW you actually understand what people are saying ;-)
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>> You are still listening on medium wave? Get a DAB radio for your car. Your
>> life will be transformed. Unlike MW you actually understand what people are saying ;-)
Get out of it - drive anywhere where they have a hill between you and the DAB plex and people sound like this
youtu.be/zzpkJvwvWDA 59 seconds
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What is a "hill". Don' t think we have them in Norfolk.
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Actually DAB coverage is now pretty good nationwide. Drove to Chester and back a couple of weeks ago and no gaps in coverage all the way. Used to be poor around Thetford when driving to London on A11 but that seems to have been resolved and now seldom have need of VHF in car or indeed at home where I usually listen via internet or TV
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>> Actually DAB coverage is now pretty good nationwide.
You may trust me that it's pretty damn hopeless in West Wales; maybe not so much for listening at home but it is when you're on the move. Quality would have to improve markedly before I invest in a suitable adaptor for the lorry.
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Just had a look 10.6m for the ashes 2013, actually increased 5Live's listening figures.
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5 live is dab only tho. and a sports only channel.
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Up thread I was told it's a news and sport channel, unless I misread.
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>> Up thread I was told it's a news and sport channel, unless I misread.
Only when there is no sport. And the news is mainly sports news
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 23 Aug 15 at 13:55
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well whatever the sort of channel it is, there seems plenty enough listeners for TMS for it to stay around for quite a while longer on one channel or another.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 23 Aug 15 at 13:57
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Edit, sorry - was thinking of 5 live sports extra
And I bet you, that within 5 years TMS will be gone as we know it.
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>> Edit, sorry - was thinking of 5 live sports extra
>>
>> And I bet you, that within 5 years TMS will be gone as we know
>> it.
>>
I think there will be a demand for people to listen to cricket, it might be dab or streamed online and the numbers seem to show it's popular enough. If it did completely go I'd be dissapointed, it's the only thing I really listen to on the radio.
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general reply
There is not really an option to use another frequency as the BBC is using everything it has got. Plus, only long-wave has the coverage. And the government would like to cease all AM and FM broadcasting and force us all to use DAB.
I do not however think it will happen, or at least, not to the timescales they'd like. When it first started in the early 50s, FM was seen as the replacement for LW and MW. 60 or more years later - has it happened? Course not! I suspect that a forced move will lead to considerably more pirate broadcasters, or even legal ones overseas aiming at here. Shade of Radio Normandy before the war.
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Radio 3 must be well past it's sell by date now, even Classic FM has more listeners.
Though no doubt there'd be an outcry from it's dwindling band of loyal followers if it was quite rightly kicked into touch.
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Isn't the BBC supposed to satisfy minority audiences?
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>> Isn't the BBC supposed to satisfy minority audiences?
>>
Perhaps they ought to have a model railway channel then. No one else does and it would probably draw a larger minority audience than R3.
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>> Radio 3 must be well past it's sell by date now, even Classic FM has
>> more listeners.
>>
>> Though no doubt there'd be an outcry from it's dwindling band of loyal followers if
>> it was quite rightly kicked into touch.
>>
I was thinking that too; unfortunately it seems to be one of the Beeb's sacred cows.
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Although there is a tiddly bit of compression on Radio 3, unless something has changed since I went deaf, Classic FM has lots, and utterly destroys some bits of classical music.
Best example is the third movement of Saint Saens organ symphony. The orchestra leads off at perhaps metzo forte (mf), there is a moment of silence, and then the organ comes in full tilt (ff) in the bass region. The phrase 'gain ducking' is used professionally anyway, but anyone who listens properly will get the best example of this effect I've ever come across - absolutely dreadful to listen to, and for me, utterly destroys the piece.
If you have the CD, listen to it, you'll not hear movements 1 and 2 on Classic FM anyway.
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I forgive Classic FM for the massive compression because it's essential for comfortable listening in a car, which is where most people listen to the wireless I believe. It's my listen of third resort when driving, if there's nowt interesting on R4 or R2.
I know what you mean about SS Organ Symphony, although I don't recognise the bit you describe - on the recording I have the third movement gets going about a minute in and on a system with a bit of oomph becomes literally moving quite quickly. I wouldn't even bother with that in the car, I'd be turning the volume up and down continually.
If you are quite deaf and can no longer hear it, my sympathy.
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Critics of the BBC seem to want it two ways
On one hand they say it shouldn't be providing programs for the mass audience so no more Radio 1, The Voice or Bake Off as these should be on commercial channels
On the other hand they want to get rid of programs that only appeal to minorities like R3 and BBC4
Radio 3 has 1.8 million listeners which seems to me a fairly substantial minority whose needs aren't actually met by any other channel
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I think the BBC has a role in both popular programming, in which it can (should) take chances that a commercial broadcaster might not, and minority programming that the commercial ones just will not provide. Aren't the majority of us members of one or more minorities?
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>> general reply
>>
Thanks SP.
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>> Up thread I was told it's a news and sport channel, unless I misread.
>>
There are two separate stations; 5Live (on MW and online/digital, talk and sport) and 5LiveSportsXtra which is online/digital only, and only broadcasts during sporting events.
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It's been going downhill since the non-melodious twins North Utsera and South Utsera were introduced.
German Bite introduced a puzzling element of humour, along with the old-Etonian sounding Hooray Light tower automatic weather station, but the old Heligoland had more gravitas.
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Long wave broadcasting is still used in mainland Europe and Ireland. I think the story of running out of valves must be just that, a story. Don't submarine communications use LF or VLF as well?
Expats in Western Europe certainly still find it useful for listening to the BBC news. It's just a shame the cricket is so dire.
When I lived literally yards from the sea in England the shipping bulletin was the only weather forecast worth listening to.
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Long wave broadcasting is still used in mainland Europe and Ireland. I think the story of running out of valves must be just that, a story. Don't submarine communications use LF or VLF as well?
Personal background. From 1981 to 1991 I worked for BBC Transmitter Group. After it, I still worked for the BBC and very closely with Transmitter Group, then the private companies Crown Castle and NTL who became Arqiva. So although I'm now retired, I do know what I'm talking about and I still know folk employed by the BBC and Arqiva. (BBC Transmitter Group no longer exists, it became a private company, Crown Castle, in about 1992, then taken over by NTL who themselves were taken over by Arqiva).
Submarine communications. Yes, VLF is used, but for slow rate data only. Transmitter design problems are partially the same as LW broadcasts, but they do have one advantage - a military budget! Getting what is effectively a one off valve made is not impossible - it just costs. No way could the BBC afford that for what is now, a sub-set of their listeners.
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And that is the end of the shipping forecast. - Zero
