I would like to propose a deal between here and the other place.
Looking around there recently, I see the technical forum is thriving, the motoring discussion is bumping along at the bottom, and the non-motoring forum is just a waste of Oilrag-filled space.
The legal forum on HJ seems to be no more than a promotional vehicle for 'Lucy BC'.
Over here, we have a busy-ish motoring forum, a quiet technical one, and a non-motoring forum that is thriving, particularly when compared to HJ's.
Leaving all questions of egos aside, this situation is crying out for a deal.
HJ's Back Room becomes technical/legal only, and all motoring and non-motoring posts are directed to C4Play.
In turn, C4Play directs all technical/legal queries to HJ.
The result would be both sites running only busy and active forums, which is better for them.
Busy and active forums are also a better experience for the user.
Everyone's a winner - but it will never happen, will it?
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Well, it might be quite a good idea - as long as we don't get lumbered with any of their software.
And we don't get accused of going around masquerading as the real thing!
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Why not just leave Honest john to do there own thing and forget about them, And make this forum work very well?
This rivalry between both is becoming boring. Yawn.
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...This rivalry between both is becoming boring. Yawn...
All I'm trying to engineer is an improved motoring forum experience for us as users.
It matters not to me where I'm logged on to, so long as I'm getting something from it.
If a deal was struck as I envisage, there would be no rivalry, the sites would be partners.
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>>>Looking around there recently, I see the technical forum is thriving,<<<
last time I looked, the technical content was low, and some of the technical advice was of questionable quality!
Last edited by: pmh on Sun 18 Jul 10 at 10:22
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...last time I looked, the technical content was low...
Seemed like there were quite a few posts to me, but others with more experience of forums will be in a better position to judge.
As regards some of the advice being of questionable quality, wasn't it ever thus?
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The best ideas in life are invariably ignored for the lesser ones.
Essentially what your saying is though, that we need to get the technical section on here up to scratch. So rather than hope for the impossible, how about a FAQ section in technical for some of the more common, but still frequently asked technical queries?
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its a non issue from my perspective
anyone who seriously needs an answer to a specific question and is capable of using the information gleaned would do a much wider trawl of the internet for the answer
i know i do
i certainly wouldnt ask armchair typers how long it would take to do a clutch on a dodge vixen and will i need any special tools
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i certainly wouldnt ask armchair typers how long it would take to do a clutch on a dodge vixen and will i need any special tools
You won't need any special tools you will be fine with that full toolkit you bought last week from Argos.
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Would anyone here really want their Non Motoring forum slotted into ours ?
Ted
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...Would anyone here really want their Non Motoring forum slotted into ours ?...
No, not really, but any threads not replied to would soon drop down the board.
And their technical forum would give ours an instant boost.
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Leave things as is.
This forum's home to the more interesting, erudite and entertaining members of the old board.
Why dilute it?
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I like things just the way they are...
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...I like things just the way they are...
Probably just as well, because I don't anticipate those who could change things will take much notice of this thread.
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I think that's a little unfair Iffy - this site's owner reads most threads and may well comment - giving him a chance to do so before posting a statement like that is a bit naughty.
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...think that's a little unfair Iffy...
Slightly clumsy remark on my part.
I was more harking back to my comment about a deal being unlikely.
My impression - not knowing either party - is that Car4Play might be more amenable to at least having a look at such a proposal than HJ.
I imagine there are all sorts of reasons of which I am unaware which would make any formal co-operation difficult.
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There is nothing to stop you posting/reading there, and/or posting reading here.
Its not a mutually exclusive thing, so we have no need to ponder any further about joining forces.
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Absolutely, Zero - thank you as always for the realism.
There's nothing wrong with having two forums: HJ is more of a place where people come and ask for advice - although some discussions are getting going - and this one is more of a place for people to chat. Fine - no rivalry, and the forums will continue to evolve. Any forum needs new members: HJ will get them through his website and his newspaper column, and this one will probably do so by word of mouth.
Some of us enjoy posting on both forums, some on only one - again fine. I don't see the point of threads like this.
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There's quite a few questions get asked in motoring which should be asked in technical and the mods probably got sick of moving them, it's pretty much dead in there and needs a "jump start".
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>> There's quite a few questions get asked in motoring which should be asked in technical and the mods probably got sick of moving them,
Part of moderating is a bit of housekeeping every now and again. It might be a chore but IMHO, is part and parcel of moderating. Not wishing to sound big headed, but myself and the other ex HJ mods ran quite a tight ship over there. When I was enrolled over there it was explained to me in great detail (by Mark RBLS) what was expected of me. Likewise that info was passed on down the line to other mods that have come and gone.
Obviously the current mods over there can run the ship how they see fit, but after all the hard work myself and other mods put in over there, it disappoints me to see how it currently looks. Sorry if that comes across as having a pop at the current mods on HJ. It's not meant to. As I said, they can run things as they see fit. It's there baby now and with rtj70 only providing a couple of weeks guidance, I'm guessing everything that's previously been expected of a HJ mod didn't get passed on.
That said, the HJ site and forum was revamped, so why not re-write the mods rule book over there at the same time.
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...I don't see the point of threads like this...
I thought the proposal was quite simple, unlikely to find favour, but simple.
Two separate forums, but each one improved by being a little more clearly focused.
To me, any improvements are worthwhile, and therefore have a point.
I mean, man didn't land on the moon by gazing at the night sky and saying: "I don't see the point of going up there."
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Confushious, he say we like Internet Salmon,we wish to return to "river" of our birth - but waters all muddy and murky now. Salmon wait patiently in crystal - clear stream, happy and thriveing, but secretly long for "home".
One day perhaps, waters will clear, sparking mad rush to spawning grounds of posting and mass-debate, Salmon maybe find happiness......but then they die!
Moral.......make the most of what you`ve got whilst you`ve got it!, - cos in the end it may never last!
Edit: from the likewise teachings of Oily!
Last edited by: devonite on Mon 19 Jul 10 at 02:05
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>> ..........- but it will never happen, will it?
I hope not. I came here to escape from the other place.
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Working together with other companies should always be a good thing. "Peaceful coexistence" and all that kind of thing.
To reiterate we don't have any grudges with HJ or his site and still work with them on hosting and other services. We just don't code the HJ site any more.
As for sharing bits of the forum I think we would stand to gain far more than them so I don't see it happening. We probably look a bit threatening too because of the traction we have gained with HJ forum users. Try posting your suggestion over there and see if you get the same measured response. (Don't forget to mention Car4play of course). If it does then your idea stands a chance, but f it gets modded out then there is your answer, simple really.
In the end, as someone here quite rightly pointed out, we need to radically overhaul this site with new sections, much more technical content and so on. We have all just been a bit busier on other projects for the time being. So thank you all for your patience.
Also a big thank you to you all for keeping the tone of this site respectful, polite etc. etc. There have been a few spats here and there, but at large folk have simply put their hands up and said sorry or whatever was needed if a misunderstanding has been made or offence taken where unintended.
And of course not least a big thanks for the mods here who have sat on their hands before acting and in general made well-considered judgement calls and done this work for no reward.
Last edited by: car4play on Mon 19 Jul 10 at 12:26
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for no reward.......
What ?!?!? :-)
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you will get your reward in heaven....
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You said there wasn't one some time ago.....
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I like this forum the way it is. Much more relaxed and constructive than the other place, which seems to have become full of very angry, aggressive, narrow minded keyboard warriors if the last discussion I participated in was anything to go by. The attitude of posters here, and the quality of banter and discussion is in a different league. I would think any link with the other place can only drag this one down. Just my humble opinion.
Apart from the CBCB which is a genuinely useful tool, there is nothing on the other site I miss. Haven't so much as logged in there for months.
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Yeah its downfall started when it appointed a new mod...... it went rapidly downhill after that...... :)
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I was away at the weekend and yesterday morning I logged on here looking forward to seeing what I had missed.
I then found this post and logged off with a dissapointed shrug of the shoulders and a resigned thought of 'here we go again'.
I didn't bother posting at all yesterday because I can't believe that it seems some of you can't move on and leave the past behind.
We have mods on here suggesting how the backroom should re write their rule book and forum members wanting to join the two websites.
Unbelievable.
To those who want to change the BR, my suggestion is that you go and do it over there.
To those who want the forums combined, try posting on both, it works fine for a lot of us.
To those who just want to enjoy themselves without any animosity, let's vote all future posts about the BR as offensive and get them hidden:)
Pat
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...Unbelievable...
Pat,
You can't see a stick without picking up the wrong end of it, can you?
The whole point of my OP is to progress this place, move forward, improve, look to the future.
But since you either can't or won't see that, I'll not waste any more time trying to explain further.
And your proposal to censor ideas because you either don't like or understand them is, er, unbelievable.
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I totally agree with you IIH, but picking up the wrong end of the stick has fared me well over the years.
I'm not suggesting censoring ideas, I'm just not agreeing with yours, God forbid I have the temerity to disagree with you.
Since you seem to miss the point I made, I will explain it.
I'm a pretty average forum user. I looked at the forums yesterday and went away, without posting, to other forums where there are no grudges ( and there are many of them out there.)
How many others get put off by the continual rivalry/comparison and just want to get on with a pleasant exchange of views?
>>is to progress this place, move forward, improve, look to the future.<<
I think we have the same purpose in mind, but I have a somewhat easier way of making a start on achieving it.
Pat
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It occurred to me the technical section on here is a bit weak, so joining with a stronger one would be a way of fixing that.
It doesn't have to be HJ - someone might have come along and said: "I know of a forum called 'carmechanic.com' which has a weedy general section, so they might be interested in getting together."
That didn't happen, and the general view of the posters on here is against getting into bed with HJ.
Thirty-odd replies is not the largest sample, but we can only work with what we've got and the general view is clear enough.
It was just an idea on my part on which I was seeking views - it has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me.
Having taken on board some of the comments in the thread, I'm far less keen on the idea than I was.
It's a bit like the film Twelve Angry Men - I'm persuaded - not guilty. :)
Last edited by: ifithelps on Tue 20 Jul 10 at 08:49
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>> It occurred to me the technical section on here is a bit weak
You don't think Tech Matters over on HJ was a thrive of activity from day one do you? That took time to build and grow, as we hope C4P will do eventually.
Don't forget most members on here are quite mechanically savvy, some of their knowledge may well have been gained from reading HJ's Tech Matters and therefore don't need to ask too many technical questions about their cars.
Given time (remember, we've only been here since the 22nd Feb 2010) C4P's Technical area will more populated once word gets round that we've got a helpful and knowledgeable bunch of regular members here.
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Is it just my imagination?
To me the total amount of postings on C4P and HJ today is less than the HJ site achieved on its own, say 12 months ago.
Maybe it is a rose tinted view but 12 months ago you logged on say 1 x per day and there were a number of new topics and replies to them and good number to some from the previous days - on all categories (apart from classifieds!)
Can anyone guage the levels of activity now and 12 mths ago?
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I reckoned on around 225 postings a day in HJ in its prime. We're there or there abouts here.
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I think it was "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe" by Douglas Adams, where towards the end, Arthur and Ford are on planet earth 2 million years in the past and meet the Golgafrinchans of Ark B;
"Ark A" had supposedly contained all the really clever people responsible for taking the planet and its race forward. I suppose like company owners and the like.
"Ark C" had consisted of the people who actually did the work, the builders, the mechanics and similar.
The main citizenship decided it was time to rid themselves of the useless part of their population and invented a story that their planet would shortly be destroyed. The unwanted part of the population consisted of hairdressers, TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, management consultants, telephone sanitisers etc, who were packed into "Ark B" and panicked into leaving.
The occupants of Ark B, secure in the knowledge that they were the high quality advance guard, believed that everyone else would follow shortly when the new planet was ready for them and spent the next two million years expecting them all to arrive at any moment.
Obviously the other two thirds did not follow and lived happily on their [unendangered[ home planet.
For some reason that part of the book, no doubt badly remembered, keeps returning to me at the moment.................
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>> For some reason that part of the book, no doubt badly remembered, keeps returning to
>> me at the moment.................
>>
I particularly like the proud Ark B resident demonstrating the (square) wheel and effusing about the colour....
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>>I particularly like the proud Ark B resident demonstrating the (square) wheel and effusing about the colour....
There were many bits I enjoyed, but mostly the way unexpected bits kept fitting together.
I haven't read most of the books, including the Dirk Gently stuff, since the first time, if you see what I mean, but I did recently read The Hitchhikers Guide...
To be honest I was a bit disappointed with it. I don't know if its because I read it sooo much and with such enjoyment 20 years ago that I've put it on an inappropriately high pedestal, or whether it really hasn't aged well, or if simply I've moved on.
It was sufficient to discourage me from re-reading any of the others just in case though.
I find the same with the Python stuff; with the exception of The Life of Brian - Which, ironically, I didn't love the first time round.
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Although I enjoyed the books the original radio series was never surpassed.
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....I reckoned on around 225 postings a day in HJ in its prime. We're there or there abouts here...
I recall seeing 400-plus on here on one occasion - the increased activity was largely due to one of those HJ threads which Pat likes so much.
Last edited by: ifithelps on Tue 20 Jul 10 at 16:05
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i got a question? why the split ?
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Please just ignore that question above:)
((bangs head in despair))
And it's a common belief that women like to gossip?
Pat
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...And it's a common belief that women like to gossip?...
The only difference is male gossip is generally cleaner.
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...i got a question? why the split ?...
Sajid,
If you were never in the Back Room (BR), it's understandable you might wonder what went on.
Others have more information than me and are welcome to correct the following, but as I recall:
The BR closed for refurbishment, but the re-opening date slipped back and back leading to fears it might not re-open.
Some of the people involved in running the BR had become hacked-off with the way they were being treated by its management.
A number of those people took the opportunity of a closed BR to start this site.
A bit of viral email marketing later, and you have what you see today.
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thanks for the explanation thought the mods at hj would have said come back we all missing you
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>> thought the mods at hj would have said come back we all missing you
Why would we say that when we're here? Unless you meant the new HJ mods?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 23 Jul 10 at 00:48
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"thanks for the explanation thought the mods at hj would have said come back we all missing you"
No need for members now here to consider coming back. The HJ site will re-fill with new members and both sites will thrive.
The old adage `Never go back` springs to mind.
All the best!
oilrag ( HJ Moderator)
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>> The HJ site will re-fill with new members
Not many post in discussion over there though ;-)
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The old adage `Never go back` springs to mind.
Is this the great "Boomerang" Oily quoting this??????? :)
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Two forums and a classic fit - Mike Hannon
