As my non de plume suggests, I work for a well known home improvements company.
Today I have had three appointments and each one basically said the same thing - ' I can't believe you're more expensive than the local firm thats quoted already.' Their rational being that as a national company we should be able to compete on price with the little guys.
Now this is a strange one, because usually people expect us to be more expensive (although not always THAT much more!!).
Anyway, it got me thinking.
This forum has a pretty broad spectrum of people who post/comment so it seems as good a place as any to ask the question -
'What is your perception of Everest Home Improvements?'
To be clear, this is not anything to do with the company - just a personal interest thing.
However it's always interesting to hear what other people think about the company you work for, and if it helps me in my job by being better informed as to differing attitudes then all to the good.
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I remember Ted Moult doing their adverts in the 80s. Apparently he did himself in after that due to depression. May not have been connected events of course.
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I'm well qualified to answer this one - if a bit out of date. As long as 30 years ago I paid Everest a large amount of money to completely refit my windows with the rather nice hardwood sub-framed alumium double ones they did in those days, plus a new aluminium and glass porch, plus renewal of all exterior woodwork with hardwood.
After a lot of haggling, Everest's quote was in fact no higher than other leading companies and a local supplier. They sent three separate fitting teams who did the whole thing over one day in the middle of winter and made a brilliant job of it.
When I was in the UK a few years ago I diverted to the old house and was amazed to see it has never been re-fitted and still looks excellent, to my eyes.
I guess that means I had a high perception, that turned out to be justified. No question that I would ask for a quote again.
BTW, I don't know how the commission system worked in those days but the salesman we dealt with over the weeks-long haggling process upgraded his car from a Ford Capri to a Porsche...
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>>I remember Ted Moult doing their adverts in the 80s
"You only fit double glazing once, so fit the best - fit Everest!"
I've remembered the above for maybe 30 years? Good slogan.
Motoring connection.
Murray Walker used to do this stuff - he famously came up with "Trill makes budgies bounce with health", presumably before truth in advertising. To my mind though the sequel to this is the better story.
When Trill had almost all the market for budgie seed, the challenge to grow sales was a tough one. Murray apparently came up with
"An only budgie is a lonely budgie".
Pure genius.
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My perception of Everest (and other national names like Anglian) is that I expect them to be expensive, and that the main reason for this is the commission based sales operation and expensive advertising. I'd expect them to be good, but frankly that they'd try to overcharge by at least 100%. My brother got an Everest chap round about 15 years ago. He was very reluctant to leave without an order, having first quoted nearly £10k; brother told him not to hold his breath and the quote was halved fairly quickly. He subsequently got a local firm to do it for £3,500.
That may be an out of date view of course - I suspect it's harder to find mugs these days, but reputations take a long time to change.
On the other hand, after answering your question about perception, I have just looked at the Everest website. They are offering "at least" 35% off list price, plus 10% cash back, and up to £2,500 scrappage allowance. All this tells me is that they make the prices up ;-)
Strange, Anglian are also offering "up to" 35% off and £2,500 scrappage - can they be related?
On neither site can I find any prices of course.
The kitchen and furniture industries operate pretty much the same way. Make the prices up, then flip from one offer to another - half price, interest free credit, free fitting, two for the price of one, and all permutations thereof. Not a way to build trust, but the fact they they seem to have to do it doesn't say much for the intelligence of the Great British Public.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 17 Jul 10 at 15:31
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I wouldn't argue that firms make up their first quotes - a bit like the motor trade, you might say.
We had one salesman call to give a quote, after a cold call from an assistant, and when he had left after failing to get the job (partly because his was an inferior product) I found a bit of paper on the front path with the words 'try £2,100'.
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My honest opinion based on no personal experience but things I have read etc.
I cocnerned about high presure sales and bogus discounts and I would expect them to be more expensive than the local guys. I hate all this bogus crap. When I had a window fitted I got quotes from a few firms all ranging between £380 and £1000. The cheapest was actually a personal recomendation they fitted my large bedroom window for £380 and never had a problem with it. It took two guys six hours to do the job, about two hours of that was all the make good and cleaning everything up.
The finish was suburb and I am sure they did a much better job than any national company would do.
Personaly I would never touch any of these big companies with a barge bole.
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That sums it up for me too. I'd rather go for an established local company. I have only once fitted double glazing, in our previous house. I got loads of quotes, all from local/regional companies, none from Everest / Anglian and the like. It's remarkable how prices drop as you hold out and also how some salesman don't want to leave without an order. I got rid of them ok. I'm pretty sure a little old lady wouldn't succeed.
Contrary to what many people will tell you, the products vary wildly in quality.
JH
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A friend has Everest secondary double glazing on most of her windows. The remainder are Everest uPVC double glazed and she also has an Everest uPVC double-glazed French door. It was all expensive. It's all poor quality. I certainly wouldn't do business with Everest.
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Oh, I forgot. As well as all the above we had a huge hardwood/aluminium sliding patio door set... Top quality.
I have many friends in the uPVC window and door trade, by coincidence. They never have a good word to say for it.
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I have 2 crooks, I mean relations who made their fortunes in the double glazing game,
one lives as a tax exile in Florida with land + boat + helicopter etc., etc., etc.,
They've both enlightened me to the tricks (dirty) of the trade, scams, special offers and the psychology they are taught to use on their victims .
I have always thought that Everest were the best but I have no actual experience of their product,
I've used Anglian who my brother worked for and gave me his mark up (so he said)
I've used many smaller Co's over the years too, Newlite were good in E. Sussex,
Often, the windows are only as good as the fitters.
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We had Everest doors and windows fitted at the old place in 1991. They're still looking good. Which is more than can be said for the stuff fitted to this place by the builder.
But I really wonder how much longer the presentation/demo/close the sale tonight model can last.
I know it's the best product - I just want the best price without loosing a night in the pub to find out!!!
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That was what struck me with the indies who did my window. No sales tactics, they just measured up and said a quote will be in the post. That was it, no attempts to try and sell their windows at all. They did tell us the make of the window and suggested we checked out reviews on the internet but that was it. The glass is just the standard Pilkington K glass.
Personaly if any sales man came to our house and stayed for more than half an hour I will show them the door and 999.
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Too expensive for me, I’m afraid. We had a quote about twelve years ago - it was the first of about six from a mix of local and national companies, but it was more than I was prepared to pay.
A couple of months later around the same time as I had received the other quotes, I spotted one of Everest’s 35% off offers and contacted the company to see if they would reduce their price. I certainly didn‘t expect them to knock a third off, but was surprised that they were not able to offer anything at all.
The installation was subsequently carried out by another well known national company.
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Some years later (he continued) we needed new windows in the next house we lived in. Because it seemed a good idea we gave the job to an old school friend of mine, who had his own company. The uPVC job was straightforward and well done, for very reasonable money.
Two weeks later he decamped to Australia with all the company cash and the firm went belly up. So much for the ten year guarantee from the local man...
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plastic window making is a piece of cake
you then buy the glass in from pilkington
everest are just another hustling company in my opinion
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My place has Everest fitted throughout - after a very positive experience with the aluminium front door of a previous property. Well fitted and to date (apart from below) reliable and robust.
9 years and 11 months the handle on my front door broke, spinning around uselessly - without quibble they sent round a "fitter" who in all honesty was pretty useless (you get the impression sometimes) and predictably the handle failed a couple of months later, there were some minor grumblings from them about warranty expiry but they sent round the same fitter, expecting this my (proper) joiner neighbour "happened" to be there when he arrived and "helped" him refit the broken handle (which had weird type of split spindle) and it's worked perfectly ever since. No real complaint would use them again, but I may consider a couple of local chaps who I've come to know since moving to the area - proper craftsmen. Everest is expensive, but is a known product, the quality is good, window furniture and the like is well spec'd so I guess I would go back to them if the deal was right. Lot of cowboys in this line of work !
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New (to us) house has Everest windows and (ugly) front door fitted in 2007. Quality of construction and installation seems well up to par. Mrs dB was surprised to get a visit from the Everest area manager - who was himself surprised to find her and not the previous owner. Didn't seem to be a sales call, so I'm not sure what he was after.
Still charged us £40 to change the warranty into our name, which seems cheeky.
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Wouldn't touch them or similar companies with a barge pole, especially the one that uses comedians to SHOUT all the details during TV advertisements.
My double-glazing was done by a local master joiner and his son, was very reasonably priced and the work was absolutely first class. His joinery experience was invaluable in taking apart and preparing a large wooden Victorian front bay window area for the new windows (the then new replacement wooden sections had been individually created about 20 years earlier by another top class joiner).
The double-glazing joiner was recommended to me by a neighbour when I'd asked who had done his double-glazing upgrade (always the best way to find a good tradesman) and, in turn, the joiner has since landed plenty of work from my recommendations.
In fact he's always booked up for at least six months ahead.
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Don't even consider using any firm that shouts at you from the telly or cold calls when yer dinner's ready.
I put in all my own upvc windows and doors over a period. Just bought them from a local maker, Kommerling system, and put a window in when that particular room came up for decoration.
Prior to that, I'd made them out of wood and they lasted 20/25 yrs ok.
I had the glass for the front door and the transoms at the front made with a slightly opaque inner glass and did a design on paper which we transferred to the outer glass to make an ' art deco ' sort of theme with coloured glass film and lead. It worked out quite well and was an enjoyable project.
Don't like shouty, pushy salesmen !
Ted
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I had that Brian Kennedy in my taxi once.
Took him from Bedford to Cheshire, very pleasant chap with a very big house.
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My perception of Everest is of a marketing operation which just happens to use windows to fleece the punter.
Yet one or two posters on here have had a more positive experience, which confuses the picture a little bit.
I have an acquaintance who has run his own windows firm for 15 years that I know of.
He would be my first port of call were I in the market for cheap and cheerful double glazing.
I'm not saying he's a superb craftsmen or anything like that, but if he was routinely ripping people off, I would have heard about it by now.
Last edited by: ifithelps on Sun 18 Jul 10 at 05:08
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Having made the mistake of inviting an Everest salesman into my home 5 years ago I would never ever use or recommend this company to anyone. All I wanted was a quotation - something the the salesman would not give me, expecting me to sign for £8000 worth of windows there and then. He got quite abusive when I asked him to leave. I ended up escorting him of the premises and throwing his samples out after him.
Ended up using a well respected local company.
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What happened to the rather strange couple that ran a double glazing company in ( I think) Birmingham somewhere? There was a funny series about them on TV a few years back. Very amusing.
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Thanks for input guys. Pretty much what I expected - I think yesterdays feedback was a one off!
Completely agree with the sales tactics arguements against using national companies.
I do my best to shield potential customers from this - unfortunately this ends up meaning I don't earn anywhere near as much as alot of others in the company who sell a similar volume to me.
Most people who have taken the plunge and used us do see over the years the worth in paying extra for the quality, and it is this knowledge which keeps me in the job - I know that what I am providing is value for money in the long term. Selling it at the best price I can means I also sleep well at night, but also means there is no Porsche to drive around in!
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I refuse to buy things from salesmen who come to my home. If I want something I will research it, measure up, get quotes, recomendations and commision the work based on that. Everest refuse to quote, merely send a salesman round. Hence they never get consdered. I would never deal with anyone who is not open about pricing up front.
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Totally agree with zero, why can they not have a website that gives a list of prices for their windows and then use their perceived quality and guarantee to overcome any price difference?
I had a guy out the other day to measure up for blinds for the new extension. A local guy who we used for the rest of the house. He came, he measured, he left a written note of the price and was gone in 5 mins. Thats what it should be like.
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One thing that really gets up my nose about Everest is that they always require both husband AND wife to be present when they call,
The reason is so that Mr Dog can't Say "yeah, I like your windows but, I'll have to ask the wife".
One saleswoman from said Co wound me up so much once, I jumped on my CX 500 Custom and disappeared into the Sunset.
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Never had that trouble with them, Mrs P dealt with all that an probably squeezed the guy until his laptop melted - she was good at getting deals, I generally let her get on with it.
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Last time we needed windows we had one or 2 of the big names round, although not Everest IIRC, but in the end went with a broker and saved a load of money. Don't know how much we could have haggled with the others.
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Last time we needed windows we had one or 2 of the big names round, although not Everest IIRC, but in the end went with a broker and saved a load of money.
What you now get double glazing "brokers"?
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What you now get double glazing "brokers"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>sounds a good partnership to me
you broker em
window company fixeth them
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I broker shoes
She's hopping mad
But then I thought.....Cobblers.....
Think I'll do some work now.....See you later.
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>>require both husband AND wife to be present when they call…
One of the national companies that I asked to quote tried this tactic. I told them that my wife would not be present and if they were not prepared to deal with me on my own, they need not book an appointment. I also politely informed them that I only wanted a quote and that I would definitely not be placing an order with anyone for several weeks.
Come the appointment it was hard, hard, hard sell. Mock telephone conversations with the manager, a distinct reluctance to tell me whether their glazing was internally or externally beaded, and a complete refusal to give me a price because I would let them have a provisional installation date.
I can’t remember their name as I’ve not seen them nor their adverts for years now, but it wasn’t Pete‘s company. Everest did exactly what I expected them to do; measured up, gave a short demo, worked out a price and left within the hour.
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>>I know that what I am providing is value for money in the long term. >>
That's exactly what I got plus top brand double-glazing products quality, but at a very, very much lower price...:-)
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The guarantee has much to do with people opting for the higher price of a nationally known company. If you are having your windows, doors and roof trim replaced you are looking at a five figure sum, and you want your installer to be around for the duration.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sun 18 Jul 10 at 15:47
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I wouldn't consider any national company to work on our old pile. Bits of it are 200+ years old, lime mortar, solid walls, no DPC built before the invention of the spirit level so it seems. I like and trust the local chaps who treat any jobs sympathetically and work with pride, knowing their work is on show locally.
Ha ha; talk of the devil etc. I've just turned a pair of Safestyle canvassers away while I was posting.
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We had an Anglian salesman round a couple of years ago. Told him we had an hour tops before a family BBQ, but we would be happy to discuss a quote for the conservatory we were thinking of adding at the time. I made it very clear at the start that we were in the early stages of considering it, we weren't ready to go ahead, and we had guests arriving in an hour sharp and he would have to be gone by then. If that was OK, we'd be happy to discuss the options with him and have a quote. He said that was fine.
Did his usual sales spiel, measured up, we agreed a style etc, then it came to the nitty gritty. Came in at £24,000. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. When it became apparent we weren't having a bar of it, he tapped furiously away on his calculator for a minute or so, scribbled some incomprehensible notes, and came back with £12,000!
My gut reaction to that was to tell him apart from the fact that was still three times the going rate, why was he trying it on at £24k if he could do it profitably for half the amount? By that time, our guests were arriving, and I asked him very politely to leave. He agreed, and toddled off down the garden to "call his boss to let him know he was on his way back to the office" (yes, they still pull that one!). Came back, sat himself down again, and said "my boss has said we can do it for you as a one off special deal for £6000 if you'll sign." When I asked if it was normal to try and get four times the final price out of the customer, and repeated my request to leave as our garden was filling up with guests, he got his brochure out again and started asking if we had considered a different style, or possibly a slightly smaller conservatory if budget was a concern.
At that point, I had to become very firm with him, and almost physically escort him from the premises. That is the last time I have let any doorstep sales person step foot inside my house.
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>>>At that point, I had to become very firm with him,<<<<
I think I would have given him a beer, sat him the corner and got on with the party! I wonder how long he would sit there with no one to talk at?
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I would have given him an apron, and told him to start serving drinks.
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...£24,000...£12,000...£6,000...
So what is the true, basic cost of DP's conservatory?
A couple of thousand? Plus a bit of labour for site preparation and assembly?
Reminds me of the market stallholders and their countdown patter:
"It's not £20, £15, £10 or £9.
"Nor is it £8, £7, £6, or £5.
"Who'll give me £4?"
At least they have the good grace to use the tactic as entertainment, and no one is ever asked to pay the higher price.
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Somebody I know needed new windows for the basement of a listed house. Everest rep came round, said she was used to working with the listed buildings people, that she would supply something perfectly acceptable, and ticked the "listed building" boxes on her forms.
Some time later, around came the letter from the enforcement people of the council's planning department.
Complete bunch of liars.
I never tire of quoting Jeff Howell:
There used to be an advert on the telly, with dear old Ted Moult saying: "You only fit double glazing once, so fit the best - fit Everest." So how come Everest is now leafleting all its customers, telling them they might wish to "upgrade" to the new standards?
www.newstatesman.com/200301060008
Everest no doubt manage "lifetime" guarantees as: 1. the uPVC becomes grotty and tatty and therefore needs replacing long before the windows actually fail. 2. Most people don't live in the same place for 25 years.
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Forum members - Perceptions sought! - Runfer D'Hills
