Non-motoring > Greece Debate - Volume 5 Miscellaneous
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 16
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 02:03 
 Greece Debate - Volume 5 - VxFan

Continuing discussion of the Greece debt crisis.

446375
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 16 Jul 15 at 02:03
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New Wed 15 Jul 15 13:50 
 No way, José - Roger.
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11738150/Greece-news-live-Britain-gets-slap-in-the-face-as-Brussels-defies-Cameron-opposition-over-Greek-loans.html

OTH, I would not quibble if humanitarian aid DIRECTLY to the Greek people was needed.
Last edited by: Roger. on Wed 15 Jul 15 at 13:51
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New Wed 15 Jul 15 15:00 
 No way, José - No FM2R
Is Tsipras clever enough to engineer the situation where he can go back to the creditors saying that despite his own cooperation and agreement his people and his Government have both and seperately voted against a deal and so the next move is theirs?

Where "next move" is write-off or restructure.

Not to mention the position taken by the IMF and various others.

I don't know, but he just might be smart enough

He might yet pull this off.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 15 Jul 15 at 15:02
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New Wed 15 Jul 15 15:13 
 No way, Jos�© - Manatee
Yes... he accepted it with the de facto proviso that he can sell it at home.

His approach to that seems be "I've agreed to something I didn't want because it's the best deal there is/there is no alternative".

If parliament rejects it then he can call the EU bluff again.

As a negotiation it's interesting. There is only one solution in the end, which is some material default. The trick is providing all the fig leaves that people need to agree if it is to be at all graceful, and not just a mess.

Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 15 Jul 15 at 15:13
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New Wed 15 Jul 15 23:20 
 No way, Jos���© - Westpig
The EU is going to have to accept that this is a failed experiment and that Greece has to go back to the drachma.

As they are part of Europe, they will need to be assisted in that goal, so that they can sort their economy out sooner rather than later without too much more pain for their people, with a hope that over a period of some considerable time, they can pay back some / all of their debt.

The alternative will not work and it's only a matter of time before it goes bang, big time.

Then there will be others of course...so the Euro needs to be toast or at the very least just for those countries of similar ilk.

So sayeth that great economist Professor Westpig.
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New Wed 15 Jul 15 23:24 
 No way, Jos������ - rtj70
>> with a hope that over a period of some considerable time, they can pay back some / all of their debt.

If they go back to the Drachma and it devalues and is worth 50 Euro cents.... the debt just doubled in size effectively.

I think having a monetary union as implemented is flawed. Either they get closer political union or it's doomed long term.
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New Wed 15 Jul 15 23:26 
 No way, JosÃ���Ã�¯Ã� - rtj70
And the deadline for the Greek vote was midnight in Greece... They're still getting up to speak.... Technically it's too late I would have thought. More rules being broken by the Greek's. Might not go down well.
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 00:01 
 No way, JosÃ���Ã�¯Ã� - smokie
Looks like it's just been approved
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New Wed 15 Jul 15 23:32 
 No way, JosÃ���Ã�¯Ã� - Westpig
>> If they go back to the Drachma and it devalues and is worth 50 Euro
>> cents.... the debt just doubled in size effectively.

Until their country becomes productive again, it isn't paying back anything is it.

Even if the drachma was to be seriously devalued against the euro and other currencies, if they can sell tourism etc and start to trade at a profit, they'll be able to start paying things back.

I've been on plenty of cracking cheap Greek holidays many years ago... but stopped going when the costs spiked... and having the euro hasn't helped them at all in that department.
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 08:10 
 No way, JosÃ���Ã�¯Ã� - Cliff Pope
>> >> and start to trade at a profit, they'll be
>> able to start paying things back.
>>

But why bother? Germany never paid reparations, and Europe never repaid Marshall aid.
No one wants it back, it's silly pretending. Just write it off to experience.
It's a bit like trying to get that fiver back from your n'er do well brother in law. Now he's got a job, just be thankful you don't have to dip into your pocket again.
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 09:44 
 No way, Jose - Duncan
>> But why bother? Germany never paid reparations, and Europe never repaid Marshall aid.
>> No one wants it back, it's silly pretending. Just write it off to experience.
>> It's a bit like trying to get that fiver back from your n'er do well
>> brother in law. Now he's got a job, just be thankful you don't have to
>> dip into your pocket again.
>>

Britain has paid back Marshall aid.

Link to Indie:-

tinyurl.com/3axvgj
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 10:09 
 No way, Jose - zippy
>>Britain has paid back Marshall aid.

I think you will find out that Marshall Aid did not require repayment.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 10:15 
 No way, Jose - Falkirk Bairn
If you have missed the Greek Crisis in the last few years do not worry.

There will be a repeat in a year or two!
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 10:15 
 No way, Jose - zippy
Should add...

Marshall Aid did not require repayment in the normal sense. The recipient countries could keep the proceeds of the money generated from the plan. It was designed to kick start the world's economy after the war.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Was loans on the other hand did need repaying. Greece probably needs something similar to the Marshall Plan now. In ruining the Greece economy these loans will have an impact on the total European economy and slow growth for decades to come.

Of course those in power don't want the contamination to spread to Spain, Italy, Portugal etc.

Imho, the Euro will only work if there is a Eurozone budget as well as a local state budget in the same way that the USA operates.
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 12:29 
 No way, Jose - Cliff Pope

>> >>
>>
>> Britain has paid back Marshall aid.
>>
>> Link to Indie:-
>>
>> tinyurl.com/3axvgj
>>

That was a loan, not Marshall aid.
Marshall aid was a gift, recognising that it was in everyone's interests to get europe back on its feet as quickly as possible.
Rubbing Greece's face in the dirt by pretending that the "loans" can be repaid is not in anyone's interests.
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 17:13 
 No way, Jose - Londoner
>> Rubbing Greece's face in the dirt by pretending that the "loans" can be repaid is
>> not in anyone's interests.
>>
Yes, and when the riots start the end result will be martial law. (See what I did there?)
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New Thu 16 Jul 15 21:19 
 No way, Jose - Cliff Pope
>> > martial law. (See what I did there?)
>>


Very good. :)
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