tinyurl.com/pggm9sd
Telegraph article.
No wonder trust in the police is declining when they deliberately set out to entrap someone who appears to have correctly rejected obviously stolen goods previously and therefore indicated that he is following the law.
Considering this is one of several cases in Manchester that have been thrown out of court, surely someone needs to review police tactics in these instances?
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Maybe they are bored zippy.Beats walking the beat.>:)
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The judge was right - It did cross the line legally and was entrapment.
However do I believe the guy when he said:
"The day after they returned, the same two guys came back with another lot of cable but this time stripped down. We didn't suspect it was the same cable as the day before."
No of course not. Of course he knew it was the same cable. He was just happy thai in the stripped down form it couldn't be traced.
That line to the judge about having his faith in British justice restored was just thumbing is nose at the police who obviously know he has been accepting stolen gear. I doubt it will be long before they nail him good and proper.
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>> No of course not.
Yes I do
Of course he knew it was the same cable. He was
>> just happy thai in the stripped down form it couldn't be traced.
So why did he use the smart water detector?
Have seen railway cable (it comes in many types and configurations) stripped out?
Now, clearly like you, I consider every scrap metal dealer to be corked, this bloke however seems to be legit and in this case there is nothing, not a shred, to back up your assertion.
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Come on Zero, you weren't born yesterday. A bloke comes into the yard wiht a load of dodgy cable which is on the proscribed list. You refuse it. He comes back again the next day with what is clearly the same cable. You do the smart water test to make sure it's not traceable and bung him the money.
And he's legit?
Come on.
Clearly not enough evidence to convict. But innocent?
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>> back again the next day with what is clearly the same cable.
I guess then the answer you meant to give was "No I have not seen the various types of railway cable unstripped and then stripped"
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"No I have not seen the various types of railway cable unstripped and then stripped"
No I must admit I haven't. I do have a feeling though that you may well have the definitive collection of such cables, all carefully collated and catalogued.
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>> "No I have not seen the various types of railway cable unstripped and then stripped"
>>
>>
>> No I must admit I haven't. I do have a feeling though that you may
>> well have the definitive collection of such cables, all carefully collated and catalogued.
No, I have however stumbled on a railway cable theft crime scene, with unstripped pulled cable, stripped cable and empty insulation all over the place and in the nearby fields
Oh and a BTP copper and a Surrey constabulary copper, and several Railtrack engineers, all of whom assumed I was one of those responsible and returning to the scene of the crime.
In summary, a reel of shiny copper core looks like any other shiny copper core, specially when wound on to used drums from a non railway application.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 15 Jul 15 at 19:39
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"In summary, a reel of shiny copper core looks like any other shiny copper core, specially when wound on to used drums from a non railway application."
Well of course it does. That's why our "innocent" scrap dealer was prepared to accept it knowing full well that it was exactly the same cable he had seen and refused because of its traceability the day before.
Pound to a penny he's going to overstep the mark in the not too distant future. Too cocky by half and the police have got his number.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 15 Jul 15 at 19:57
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That's why our "innocent" scrap dealer was prepared to accept
>> it knowing full well that it was exactly the same cable he had seen and
>> refused because of its traceability the day before.
With his calibrated mk1 eyeball?
;-)
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"With his calibrated mk1 eyeball? "
Well call me cynical but if a geezer offered me exactly the same amount of stripped cable as the unstripped cable that I had declined the day before I might just think "hang on that's a coincidence I just wonder whether that could be the same dodgy stuff I had turned down yesterday.
Clearly I am less trusting than some.
Anyone want to buy London Bridge? I've got a an exclusive deal. I promise it's kosher.
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>>
>> "With his calibrated mk1 eyeball? "
>>
>> Well call me cynical but if a geezer offered me exactly the same amount
well unless I missed it was it the same person who tried to sell it? Who knows how many customers they had in between, perhaps they aren't a cable spotter, memerising every bit of metal that comes across the counter.
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>> "In summary, a reel of shiny copper core looks like any other shiny copper core,
>> specially when wound on to used drums from a non railway application."
>>
>> Well of course it does. That's why our "innocent" scrap dealer was prepared to accept
>> it knowing full well that it was exactly the same cable he had seen and
>> refused because of its traceability the day before.
sigh.
At the end of the day, the bloke did everything by the book. Clearly its not enough for you, fortunately it was for the judge.
And frankly the old bill in this case couldn't catch a cold, let alone a criminal.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 15 Jul 15 at 20:38
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Like I said in my first post legally the judge was right and the guy "not guilty". The police did cross the line of entrapment.
But innocent? I really don't think so and I rather suspect that you don't either.
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Scrap metal, which in my experience is mostly discarded jalopies, is a damned rough trade not for the faint-hearted or clean-fingered.
Strangely terrifying but genial cats they are, those scrap metal men. Put you on your best behaviour with a single sidelong stare... drive a very hard bargain goes without saying.
You can see them licking their lips when a simple-minded bourgeois punter waddles hesitantly over the horizon.
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>> But innocent? I really don't think so and I rather suspect that you don't either.
>>
They concentrated on him for a reason... they didn't put all those resources together for a fishing expedition.
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Its not unknown for coppers to get things wrong.
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>>They concentrated on him for a reason... they didn't put all those resources together for a fishing expedition.
I don't think they did concentrate on him. There were about half a dozen similar cases in Manchester over the last couple of years, all of which were thrown out.
What is the next step? Didn't get the guy by trying to sell dodgy gear, so plant some on him?
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Entrapment by Rozzers - Dutchie
