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I see a certain Nicola Sturgeon is squealing because the windmill subsidy is being pulled early. Is Westminster trying to wind her up, or just save a few quid? I thought the subsidy went to the operators not the Scottish government.
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Can't win can you? People moaned enough about them, being an eyesore etc, so they pull the plug and some other people moan...
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It's funny how people moan about any change in their neighbourhood but once something like a wind turbine has actually been built and becomes part of the scenery they hardly notice it. I live near a communication mast festooned with aerials of all descriptions which was hugely controversial when it was built but now no one ever mentions it.
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>> It's funny how people moan about any change in their neighbourhood but once something like
>> a wind turbine has actually been built and becomes part of the scenery they hardly
>> notice it. I live near a communication mast festooned with aerials of all descriptions which
>> was hugely controversial when it was built but now no one ever mentions it.
If yoos lived near any of the many wind farms in Carnwall you'd soon start throwing your toys out of the pram.
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We have a fair number on Norfolk as well as some huge offshore farms. To be honest I quite like them in the landscape. I suppose living near door to them might be different but i rather suspect that like my communications mast - about 400 yards away from my house, you stop noticing them quite quickly.
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I quite like them too. When I take (used to!) Milo up the lane of an evening I can see quite a few single GIANT wind turbines on various farms in the far distance.
Peeps have written in to the local paper saying they can hear a whooshing noise at times (I wouldn't like that) and a flickering-light effect too (I wouldn't like that either :))
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"Peeps have written in to the local paper saying they can hear a whooshing noise at times"
Yeah, we get that and we have no turbines. We call it "wind", often rushing through things we call "trees".
I wonder if the flickering light brigade have thought to call out an electrician? They can analyse the supply to see what voltage it is at, whether it is smooth and if there are faults.
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>>Yeah, we get that and we have no turbines. We call it "wind", often rushing through things we call "trees".
>>I wonder if the flickering light brigade have thought to call out an electrician? They can analyse the supply to see what voltage it is at, whether it is smooth and if there are faults.
I take it you're not wanting to hear about the lights from the incinerator stacks shining through peeps windows at night then :)
www.st-ig.co.uk/
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Page last updated in Feb, guess it's either OK now or it's fallen over! :-)
Nah, not interested in lights shining through windows, we get that here too, call 'em street lights, and usually close the curtains to reduce the impact :-)
I've not read any of the background on that anti-incinerator page but I'm guessing it's all part of the plan to drastically reduce landfill. Seems a good way to do it, unless there's a better alternative?
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>>I've not read any of the background on that anti-incinerator page but I'm guessing it's all part of the plan to drastically reduce landfill. Seems a good way to do it, unless there's a better alternative?
I wouldn't buy a property that was downwind of a waste incinerator plant.
There are plenty of disused mines in the UK, so more use could be made of those for landfill.
One thing that really gets up my nose is the amount of non-recyclable plastic food containers used by the food industry.
I cut mine up into small pieces before putting them in the bin, but I shouldn't think many peeps faff about like that.
I read recently that we need to reduce the world population by about six billion or so, a bit drastic I thought,
but it's worth considering I suppose :)
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>> There are plenty of disused mines in the UK, so more use could be made
>> of those for landfill.
The sort of landfill that is incinerated is probably not material that should be buried in the first place. I'm thinking of stuff that can break down and leach chemicals into the groundwater or produce methane and other gases.
Northampton's Sixfields stadium and the surrounding leisure facilities (cinema, various pubs restaurants etc) were built on reclaimed landfill. For a long time during redevelopment there was a flare burning off methane. Subsequently some sort of kit was installed to allow the stuff to be safely dispersed into the atmosphere.
You wouldn't want waste that did that down a nearby ex tin mine.
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>>You wouldn't want waste that did that down a nearby ex tin mine.
Yep, that did enter my mind actually. Plus a lot of old mines are located in areas of urbanisation and it's not uncommon to wake up one morning to find a large hole where your garden once was.
www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/tin-mining/background_decline.shtml
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>> For a long time during redevelopment there was a flare burning off
>> methane. Subsequently some sort of kit was installed to allow the stuff to be safely
>> dispersed into the atmosphere.
>>
That seems a bit wasteful, our landfill site is on the edge of town. The gas it produces heats water which is used to heat the swimming pool and leisure centre, also the council offices, etc. It is being updated with this system which will include the hospital.
www.buildingcentre.co.uk/case_study/anaerobic-digestion-facility-lochhead-landfill-site-dunfermline
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 20 Jun 15 at 17:51
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To be honest I quite like them in the landscape. I suppose living [next] door to them might be different...
I do too. As for living close by, I've stayed in French holiday properties with turbines for neighbours and noticed nothing but the graceful shapes among the sunflowers. Compared with a coal- or gas-fired power station, there's no aesthetic contest.
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As someone who backpacks and wild camps in Scotland, I find them a massive, despoiling blot on the landscape. Someone should have bagpipes stuffed up their jacksy for allowing beautiful wilderness areas to be so ruined for future generations. . Not just the massive turbines themselves, but the access roads etc.
Most people south of the border have no idea, nor do many of the lowland Scots.
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Unfortunately the SNP think that wind power is the answer to their anti nuclear policy and ageing coal fired power stations. They have ruined vast tracts of Scotland with thousands of wind turbines.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 19 Jun 15 at 21:45
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We are going to have plenty build in the North Sea (Near Doggerbank I believe.
There are loads of them in the lowlands.Europoort is full of them .Maybe better than fracking or coal powerd stations.Who has the answer?
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I don't see the logic of this film.Anything can happen anytime to all of us on this planet.
That doesn't give us the excuse by over pollution and making the air around us not fit to breath.What was solved ?
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Free and constant wind power sounds tempting, but how do the costs compare with those of traditional polluting power generation methods? The turbines themselves are expensive, especially if built offshore in large numbers even in shallow seas. How reliable is their control circuitry and so on? How much skilled and expensive servicing do they need?
The bottom line, the cost per unit of electricity, is what counts most with company operators and governments along with their hapless taxpayers. It would be interesting to know how the figures compare.
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My understanding, but I'm probably wrong, is that they are actually fairly cheap, compared to a new power station, and don't have the long lead time to be built or the decommissioning time and cost once they are done with.
But the government subsidy makes them as expensive as other forms of power.
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Interesting link CG, thanks.
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I don't think wind turbines are an abomination, I just think they are beside the point. They will never produce a significant contribution to power generation in any developed, industrial country and subsidising power generation from wind makes even more of a nonsense of the whole thing.
We live in what in the UK would be called an area of outstanding natural beauty and there was talk at one time of putting a line of 'aeoliennes' along the 500 metre ridge above our village. We seemed to be the only people not incensed by the idea. I thought they might be a tourist attraction. The idea wasn't pursued - apparently coastal plains with steady breeze are where they work best.
Not long ago the neighbouring departement, Charente, saw half-a-dozen aeoliennes of the biggest (400ft in total apparently) variety put up about 20 minutes from us, so we went out of our way to take a close look. They don't look like a terrible eyesore - we have a line of huge pylons with a 220kV power line cutting through forest 400m from our house which is an equal or worse intrusion - and when we stood at the base of one of them we noticed some low-level hum and a bit of swish from the sweeps, all of which was inaudible from 100m away.
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Yes, thank you CGN. As I thought, broadly speaking the second most expensive, after tidal.
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Nor do I think windmills are an eyesore, although they matter less in some places than others. I don't mind machines or industrial clutter having been used to them all my life.
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>> Nor do I think windmills are an eyesore, although they matter less in some places
>> than others. I don't mind machines or industrial clutter having been used to them all
>> my life.
>>
And how many thousands are there in the south east?
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>> And how many thousands are there in the south east?
Haven't a clue. Quite a few I would think.
Are you accusing me of nimbyism ON? I said, I don't mind windmills! When I do I'll let you know.
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I didn't see any on Box Hill or Epsom Downs when I was last there. That is the sort of place we have them. You might change your view (pun intended) when they start appearing like weeds in pleasant places.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 20 Jun 15 at 20:08
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www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10760835/Scotland-has-more-than-half-the-UKs-wind-turbines.html
In case you can't see it, this is probably the relevant bit from April 2014..
"The Scottish Conservatives highlighted industry statistics showing 2,315 turbines have been constructed north of the Border out of a UK total of 4,350."
"A further 1,163 turbines have been given planning permission in Scotland out of a UK total of 2,827, according to figures compiled by Renewable UK, the wind farm companies’ trade body"
So about 1/2 seem to be in Scotland. Scotland has around 60% the Sqkm of England. (+/-80sqkm v. +/-130sqkm).
Of course the total for "UK" of 4350 will include Wales & NI as well, I should imagine.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 20 Jun 15 at 20:31
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England, 53,012,456 people in 130,395 square kilometers (density 406.55 people/sq km)
Scotland, 5,295,000 people in 78,772 square kilometers (density 67.22 people/sq km)
Wales, 3,063,456 people in 20,779 square kilometers (density 147.43 people/sq km)
Northern Ireland, 1,810,863 people in 13,843 square kilometers (density 130.81 people/sq km)
More areas of low population density, and topography of country is favourable to wind. The UK has some good spots for wind turbines, but Scotland has significant advantages - More areas of low population density, and topography of country is favourable to wind.
Also a long term asset for when the oil runs out/generation policy changes.
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>>Also a long term asset for when the oil runs out/generation policy changes.
>>
Try a Google search for "Abandoned wind farms".
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 20 Jun 15 at 20:52
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>> I didn't see any on Box Hill or Epsom Downs when I was last there.
>> That is the sort of place we have them. You might change your view (pun
>> intended) when they start appearing like weeds in pleasant places.
>>
If we assume pleasant places to be the countryside most are, across the UK. PLenty are in jockland, but it is a large place so plenty of fields to put them.
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Well at least you won't have solar farms to moan about in the the land of perpetual cloud and drizzle.
Some huge one's here in sunny Norfolk. This one is at the old RAF Coltishall site.
www.edp24.co.uk/news/first_stage_of_giant_solar_farm_at_the_former_raf_coltishall_is_complete_1_4038997
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At least it is not 400odd ft tall and doesn't make a noise.
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>> At least it is not 400odd ft tall and doesn't make a noise.
>>
The point is that we all have to put up with something around for the overall benefit of society. We can't expect everything we don't like to be be put somewhere else. So there are remote area of Scotland with wind farms. we've got solar panels, Sizewell has got a nuclear reactor, the South East has got roads and buildings everywhere. A whole lot of people are going to have to live with HSR. In a comparatively small island you are going to have something you don't like in your vicinity.
And as I have said in relation to my communication mast after a while you don't even notice these things. No point in moaning about everything. Not good for the blood pressure
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At least the 133,000 (crikey!) panels are sited on a former airbase. We have solar 'farms' down here of course, usually sited on, um, farms ... more money for the 'poor' farmers.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20444648
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>> Well at least you won't have solar farms to moan about in the the land
>> of perpetual cloud and drizzle.
>>
>> Some huge one's here in sunny Norfolk.
Cheers i wondered what they done with colt.
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>> But the government subsidy makes them as expensive as other forms of power.
Presumably it is just an expensive source of power, which without subsidy would not be built.
A major weakness is that they generate when the wind blows, not when you need electricity.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 21 Jun 15 at 08:03
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This one is almost 600' tall, OK it is designed for offshore use but has been running for some time. We have many turbines almost as big in this area (Central Scotland) they are not all in remote areas by any means. You may be lucky that the subsidy has been pulled, you may only get fracking.
www.thecourier.co.uk/business/news/world-s-biggest-turbine-now-standing-tall-at-methil-1.144357
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 21 Jun 15 at 09:00
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Well all our green areas (Wokingham) are being soaked up by 13000 new homes to be built between 2015 and 2018. At least your windmills won't increase traffic on already congested roads, and all the other infrastructure issues.
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>> Well all our green areas (Wokingham) are being soaked up by 13000 new homes to
>> be built between 2015 and 2018. At least your windmills won't increase traffic on already
>> congested roads, and all the other infrastructure issues.
47,000 new homes to be built in Sunni Cornwall by 2030. NIMBY fortunately.
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I think most places are getting new houses, even in sleepy back of beyond we are getting 100 new houses. I think because we've had so few built in the past few years it seems a surprise. But i think we are well below what was built in the past few decades.
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Time to buzz orf to somewhere like Cyprus maybe, and spend my final years (hopefully) in a fug of herbal haze ...
I don't like the idea about what they do with their 'used' loo paper though :(
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>> Time to buzz orf to somewhere like Cyprus maybe, and spend my final years (hopefully)
>> in a fug of herbal haze ...
>> I don't like the idea about what they do with their 'used' loo paper though
>> :(
>>
Not too keen on Cyprus. Although I'm sure there are some nice places it felt a bit run down to me. And although i can cope with it, it's too hot in the summer to want to live there.
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I've never visited Cyprus, but I do keep tabs on what's going on there via the expat site.
Indeed I've heard it can get too hot in the summer, and the winters can get cold I believe.
The Canaries are good for winter sun, but I'll probably end up in somewhere like Almeria.
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>> Indeed I've heard it can get too hot in the summer, and the winters can
>> get cold I believe.
You can go skiing in the mountains in Cyprus. Yes in the winter it gets cold alot colder than many think.
>> The Canaries are good for winter sun, but I'll probably end up in somewhere like Almeria.
More pleasant and less extreme range of temperature.
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I've been on the expat forum for a few years now, so I've got to know some of the people in Cyprus and Spain.
One chap out in Cyprus who has a cat & dog boarding business, used to line in Tenerife a while back.
He reckons he prefers the seasons in Cyprus, which you don't really get in the Canaries, plus the fact that somewhere like the Canaries are really geared for mass tourism, which can be a PITA if you live there all year round.
If I had Lud's sort of money, I would buy a villa up in the hills of Tenerife, half way between Teide and the coast.
We live in hope (and die in despair)
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>> I've been on the expat forum for a few years now, so I've got to
>> know some of the people in Cyprus and Spain.
With a view to moving out there? When you looking at moving?
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>>With a view to moving out there? When you looking at moving?
Aye, but when is the question of course. The 'cost of living' in the Med is cheaper than here ... if you buy from local markets etc.
One thing where many people make a mistake is thinking they wont require much heating in the winter - it can get just as cold and miserable in Malaga as it does in Cornwall in winter, but it doesn't last for quite as long though :)
The so-called summers, in Cornwall at least, just don't really do it for me, and at 62 I'm not getting any younger. Perhaps I need to relocate to Norfolk :P
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You wouldn't survive long. More sunshine here than Cornwall but the North Easterly wind would finish you off.
Bracing is the word I believe.
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In the four years we've lived in this cottage, the wind direction has been mainly North Westerly, and fairly constant too.
I put it down to the Jetstream throwing a wobbly, because the prevailing winds should be West/Souwesterly in this part of the world.
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>> Well all our green areas (Wokingham) are being soaked up by 13000 new homes to
>> be built between 2015 and 2018. At least your windmills won't increase traffic on already
>> congested roads, and all the other infrastructure issues.
>>
>>
Dunfermline has doubled in size over the last 20 years and many more houses are planned. My house is 15 years old and is part of the expansion although I have lived in the area for almost 50 years.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 21 Jun 15 at 10:03
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>> As someone who backpacks and wild camps in Scotland, I find them a massive, despoiling
>> blot on the landscape. Someone should have bagpipes stuffed up their jacksy for allowing beautiful
>> wilderness areas to be so ruined for future generations. . Not just the massive turbines
>> themselves, but the access roads etc.
>> Most people south of the border have no idea, nor do many of the lowland
>> Scots.
>>
Isn't all that beautiful Scottish Highland wilderness entirely fake and man-made? Isn't its natural state to be covered in deciduous forest?
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Not sure if fake is the word but much of the Highalnds would be covered in Caledonian forest, (which is Scots pine and not deciduous ) if it were not for man and red deer and the absence of a top predator such a the wolf to keep the red deer numbers down.
The objection to wind farms is really only an aesthetic one. They do little harm to the environment unlike maintaining vast tract of treeless moorland to preserve grouse shooting for a few extremely rich landowners.
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Sorry, I've just realised I meant, of course, coniferous forest. And me with an A-grade geography 'O' level too.
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>> It's funny how people moan about any change in their neighbourhood but once something like
>> a wind turbine has actually been built and becomes part of the scenery they hardly
>> notice it.
They are a visual obscenity wherever they are, even in Norfolk.
>>I live near a communication mast festooned with aerials of all descriptions which
>> was hugely controversial when it was built but now no one ever mentions it.
1 mast, many windmills.
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I'm not quite sure what a visual obscenity is but for me windfarms are no worse than all the other clutter of modern living and to my eyes have a certain aesthetic grace about them. Your opinion is just that, an opinion.
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So you would not have any problems with a dozen (number increasing) 400' turbines within five miles of your house then?
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I honestly don't think i would.
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No I wouldn't. Five miles is a long way away. Can't really see that they would affect you at all. They are building 271 houses on the former playing field adjacent to my house but I'm not complaining about it. If we want housing, power, roads, employment this stuff has got to go somewhere.
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5 miles is a big back yard, even for a NIMBY! We have whole towns within that distance... :-)
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>> 5 miles is a big back yard, even for a NIMBY! We have whole towns
>> within that distance... :-)
>>
Little islander thinking. :-)
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>> for me windfarms are no
>> worse than all the other clutter of modern living
>>I'm not quite sure what a visual obscenity is
Clearly.
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>> >>I'm not quite sure what a visual obscenity is
>> Clearly.
One man's visual obscenity is another man's large inoffensive piece of machinery placed in an area of outstanding natural beauty.
Inoffensive, but also inefficient and expensive to run.
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A one sided viw but worth a read.
scotlandagainstspin.org
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Windmills. - smokie
