Sitting here with a glass of London Pride. Albeit pasteurized and bought from a grotty supermarket, its a close as I can get to a real beer.
I miss my favourites;
Flowers Original
Wadworth 6X
Courage Directors
No message, just a [sigh].
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At least if it's pasteurized you don't need to worry about it being from a grotty supermarket.
The tangent in the 'Bargains' thread about Watneys Red Barrel and its contemporaries reminded me why 'keg' beer might have appealed. Plenty landlords in the sixties couldn't or wouldn't keep 'live' beer to the standard it needs. The pressure keg stuff was at least consistent and didn't give you the squitts.
Modern day real ale pubs are a different kettle of fish.
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The opportunity to spend a couple of relaxed hours in a pub with a decent pint and a few decent people is probably *THE* thing that I miss.
More than Watney's offences against humanity, do you remember those metered pumps? Now *they* were an abomination.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 7 Jun 15 at 19:33
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I was sat in Edinburgh airport this morning. I was amazed at how the Scottish accent sounded so eastern European but that just makes me racist.
I could have gone for a beer but I elected for a coffee shop. Does that make me gay ? What does gay mean these days ? snip - you know why
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 8 Jun 15 at 01:16
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I didn't mind the metered pumps at all. They were used with oversize glasses and at least you got a pint.
There was a Ward's pub, the Grindstone at Crookes, Sheffield that had a pint one instead of the usual half.
Sorry for your plight though.
Pride is held up as a fine balanced beer but I can't get on with it at all. A great beer is moreish to the point of me being merry if I go that far, Pride for me is lessish about halfway down the second pint, and gives me headache!
Unfortunately the pub 200m away is Fullers, but not far away is a fine village pub, a free house, with usually 4 real beers on tap. Timothy Taylors Landlord, Butcombe Bitter, Skinner's Betty Stoggs, Dark Star Hophead, and the very hoppy Vale IPA have all been enjoyed recently!
6X I like. Courage Directors is a bit heavy, strong and malty for me. I can't remember what Flowers Original tasted like. Taken over by Whitbread a long time ago?
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Do you live up there ?
My first pint of reference in Sheffield was the Grindstone.
I had to suffer a year in the nurses home at Lodge Moor while I did my year out. I met a lass from Woolwich barracks who was doing a year out to study spinal injuries in the Grindstone.
What a small world !!!
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Not a big fan of London Pride I can't get on with it. Quite like Old crafty hen, and I like most of wychwood brewery stuff. In the pubs it's mainly batemans' not a bad thing as (especially) XXXB is very drinkable.
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>> Do you live up there ?
>>
>> My first pint of reference in Sheffield was the Grindstone.
No...lived there as a student but had rellies up the road at Crosspool too. Used to play bridge badly at the grindstone on Wednesdays. Lived Huddersfield way (I come from Brighouse). Now in West Herts. Beer more expensive here.
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>> the pub 200m away is Fullers
200m!!!!
I now have a Manatee wax doll and I am sticking pins it. Maliciously and viciously. Git. Hate you.
I loved Directors, much more than Courage Best. I used to love Brakspears but they've made a b***** hotel out of the place! Its brewed elsewhere now.
Just goes to show how a neighbourhood can go to pot after some people move out and others move in.
I like the Vale stuff, but since I am walking distance from their brewery [when in the UK], its worth my while liking it.
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>> >> the pub 200m away is Fullers
>>
>> 200m!!!!
>>
>> I now have a Manatee wax doll and I am sticking pins it. Maliciously and
>> viciously. Git. Hate you.
>>
Why ? Fullers ? You should be sending him 10's of thousands of pounds for saving you from the propagation of p*sh water. Fullers ! Tscah ! Like it was ever a real beer !!!
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Really?
I do enjoy a pint of London Pride.
Not only do I like it, its a dependable pint. It always tastes like that. Same for 6X.
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>> Courage Directors is a bit heavy, strong and malty for me.
Lethal stuff. They had it in the pub near our Grove gaff and it got me into trouble a couple of times.
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Have you people south of the Humber heard of spirits ?
You drink p*sh water and get hammered ? And you wonder why we call you soft, southern, shandy drinking, puffs !!!! ???
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>>blah blah southern blah blah
Both Cornwall and Wales have been responsible for alcohol which got me hammered. Neither of them known for being North.
However, I worked in Ayr for a while, and never found a decent beer. And that's north-ish.
However, as it happens I don't love the strong beers. 4.0 - 5.0 works best for me.
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>> However, as it happens I don't love the strong beers. 4.0 - 5.0 works best
>> for me.
Now there's a curiosity; to my mind 4 - 5 (%abv) is, judged on historical figures, relatively strong. In Fullers terms its ESB rather than Bitter. I remember drinking 4 pints of ESB in The Castle in Harrow and being so pi**ed I fell off a wall without injuring myself.
In those days though we measured OG rather than ABV.
My BiL talks of 'quaffing' beers being around the 3-3.5% mark. I think he's right.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 7 Jun 15 at 20:46
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Yes, i did wonder if I'd remembered that correctly.
What's 6X ?
Nonetheless, its the weaker beers i prefer, whatever the actual number is.
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>> What's 6X ?
According to Wadworths' website it 's 4.1%. Whether it was that in say, 1985, is another question.
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If its 4.1 then i would say that up to 4.5 would be fine for me.
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>> My BiL talks of 'quaffing' beers being around the 3-3.5% mark. I think he's right.
>>
>>
>>
I think that's a bit weak and lacking in taste a little. I think they are harder to find, not many commercial brands in the range a few cheapo supermarket own brands. Or maybe it's me I just don't notice them.
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>> I think that's a bit weak and lacking in taste a little. I think they
>> are harder to find
Which view may exemplify a change in drinker's approach and attitude where the importance of OG/ABV has increased. Those drinking to replace fluid lost at the furnace or coal face wouldn't want to fall over after four pints. Now that pubs are less about refreshment and more about entertainment/socialising there may have been a paradigm shift.
There are still those who want to drink all night without being pickled - the BIL's cohort.
While 'weakness' is inherent in 'quaffing' beer I'd hope a decent brewer's malting and hopping would provide taste.
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The Vale IPA is a good example - 3.7% but very satisfying, if you like bitter hops, and not too strong.
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>>The Vale IPA is a good example
By the way, if you are ever in the area do drop in on the Vale brewery. Its a new and not very impressive building, but the people are really nice and welcoming, they have loads of beers available for trying and buying, and usually have some really good fresh stuff about.
In my experience its best to walk or take a designated driver.
And if I'm in the UK, I'll see you there.
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"While 'weakness' is inherent in 'quaffing' beer I'd hope a decent brewer's malting and hopping would provide taste."
My favourite quaffing beer is Adnams Southwold Bitter at 3.7%; these days I generally avoid beers above about 4.5%. Their 'Explorer' is a light, refreshing, blonde beer at 4.3% - I drink this if I can find it on draught.
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>>My favourite quaffing beer is Adnams Southwold Bitter at 3.7%
Also one of my favourites, when I can find it.
I've found there's many beers below 4% with great taste that also suit my abused liver.
Had a couple of pints of JHB last week. Lovely taste, but devastating effect on the lavatory pan next morning.
Tried some Stonecutter(?) as well earlier in the week. Very tasty.
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>> quaffing beer
Quaffing means guzzling.
Greed and guzzling are intrinsic to beer drinking.
No offence. I like the stuff and everything.
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> Which view may exemplify a change in drinker's approach and attitude where the importance of
>> OG/ABV has increased. Those drinking to replace fluid lost at the furnace or coal face
>> wouldn't want to fall over after four pints.
Well no I'm not a coal miner, and tastes do change but i don't think anyone will be falling over after 4 pints of normal strength of beer.
>> There are still those who want to drink all night without being pickled - the BIL's cohort.
Everyone is different, but i would expect those expecting to drink all day can sink plenty without worrying too much about strength. I'm interested what sort of beer do they drink? 3% beer is quite difficult to find especially in pubs.
>> While 'weakness' is inherent in 'quaffing' beer I'd hope a decent brewer's malting and hopping would provide taste.
I suppose they can try but I've not found one. Much prefer something around the 5% mark.
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>> Now there's a curiosity; to my mind 4 - 5 (%abv) is, judged on historical
>> figures, relatively strong. In Fullers terms its ESB rather than Bitter. I remember drinking 4
>> pints of ESB in The Castle in Harrow and being so pi**ed I fell off
>> a wall without injuring myself.
Despite hailing originally from Nottinghamshire I learned to drink properly in Berkshire when I joined the army. Regular haunt became the Ship in Wokingham where London Pride was a fixture, and you could get Brakspears, Courage and a few others on hand pump at other pubs around the town; a welcome relief from the foul John Smiths keg rubbish which was the mainstay of Newark boozers.
Marvellous stuff ESB ain't it? Rarely found outside London, I can find Pride in most towns and it's usually good, but whilst at a Harley rally in Shipley a few years ago I discovered that the Junction Hotel in Baildon kept ESB as a regular beer.
Needless to say I saw little of the actual rally!
Last edited by: Harleyman on Mon 8 Jun 15 at 01:18
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>>Have you people south of the Humber heard of spirits ?
And as for spirits, bring them on. Whatever my limitations with beer are, they don't apply to spirits.
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>> And as for spirits, bring them on. Whatever my limitations with beer are, they don't
>> apply to spirits.
>>
Cool, looking forwards to it onboard.. Remember EU control now do very, VERY stringent breath tests...
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>>do very, VERY stringent breath tests.
After my accident I now drink NOTHING and drive. Consequently the limits are irrelevant to me.
Even the morning after is around 12 hours after my last drink. Its a bit of a pain occasionally, but at least its one worry less.
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Many years ago my uncle worked for Mann, Crossman and Paulin, then Watneys, then Grand Met and he was one of the perpetrators of Red Barrel. To the end of his life we argued at every opportunity about the stuff. His point was always that beer was, by and large, unreliable and that was mostly down to publicans who didn't know how to keep it so the need was for people to get what they expected, wherever and whenever. Now, after all these years and many of them in exile away from the pub culture I loved, I think he was right. There is now too much 'craft' beer and too many micro-breweries in the UK - half the time you don't know what to order and most of the rest of the time you are disappointed with what you get. Very often these days when in the UK I end up ordering a pint of Bass just to be on the safe side. Seems like a sad situation to me.
Back along my Welsh friend in a nearby village, who used to work for Brains in Cardiff, brought me back a pack of SA Gold because he knows I once worked in the city and am one of the few English fans of Brains beer. That was the act of a gentlemen, I thought.
>>The opportunity to spend a couple of relaxed hours in a pub with a decent pint and a few decent people is probably *THE* thing that I miss.<<
Yup.
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Up 'ere in Norf West, we 'ave a number of pubs that serve not only the traditional products such as Guinness, bitter, mild and lagers, but on top of that offer up to 14 or 16 cask ales.
Now cask ales don't last more than a few days, but the landlords are quite happy as they sell out of all the cask ales each time they are renewed.
If you want to find the best of the best of these pubs, just check out CAMRA's tips and advice...:-) Here's one of the big favourites in my part of the world:
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/freshfield-pub-formby-one-three-8657792
www.freshfield-liverpool.co.uk/ (great food and drink and conveniently close to the Southport to Liverpool railway service).
Last edited by: Stuartli on Mon 8 Jun 15 at 09:11
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6X or Bass are my choices - and plenty of it too. A drink's too wet without a fag as well. I will never give up the beer or smoking, despite the doctor's best attempts.
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14 to 16 cask ales in one pub - what's the point? In one Birmingham pub last year I saw 18 pumps, with several more in a bar upstairs. Only two pubs I have been in recently - 'Off The Rails' (the old station buffet) and The Regency in Weston-super-Mare get it right: a reliable Bass, a local best bitter, a maximum of two guest 'ales' (if one insists on this genteel expression) and a decent draught cider.
Beer in the UK has become like wine in France, in my opinion - large amounts of bullshine and snobbery. Most French women I know will tell you that wine and all the surrounding flim-flam is nothing but a macho thing.
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>>14 to 16 cask ales in one pub - what's the point?
It must be one hell of a busy pub to get rid of that lot every couple of days.
Usually I'm not struck on the micro breweries, the large breweries are mostly better at making beer.
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>>It must be one hell of a busy pub to get rid of that lot every couple of days.>>
Now there's a surprise conclusion...:-)
Do you really think that so many cask ales would be available at any one time unless it was, indeed, "one hell of a busy pub"?..:-)
One of its suppliers includes:
www.liverpoolorganicbrewery.com/
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>>Do you really think that so many cask ales would be available at any one time
Well, I was surprised. But yes, that's what I thought you meant.
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>> Well, I was surprised. But yes, that's what I thought you meant.>>
Yes, it was. But the point was that in view of the comparatively short life of cask ale, the landlord would certainly not stock so many unless the demand was there in the first place..:-)
I know in my own club that any guest cask, which as you will now appreciate has a short shelf life, sells out very quickly. However, in this case, because some nights are busier than others, the night on which it is introduced during the week is critical to ensure maximum sales and minimise any potential waste.
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>>
>> I know in my own club that any guest cask, which as you will now
>> appreciate has a short shelf life, sells out very quickly. However, in this case, because
>> some nights are busier than others, the night on which it is introduced during the
>> week is critical to ensure maximum sales and minimise any potential waste.
>>
I think that under these circumstances, the guest beers come in smaller barrels - (5 gallons?)
rather than the standard 11 and 22 sizes, which is why they last out less than the four day life span.
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>> I think that under these circumstances, the guest beers come in smaller barrels - (5
>> gallons?)
>> rather than the standard 11 and 22 sizes, which is why they last out less
>> than the four day life span.
Dayla in Aylesbury supply many pubs locally with guest beers, and we buy for the village show etc. Nearly always 9's.
www.dayladrinks.co.uk/beers/cask-ales/
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"Most French women I know will tell you that wine and all the surrounding flim-flam is nothing but a macho thing."
But what do those women know eh?
Seriously one of the main drivers for the the revival of draught ales in the UK has been the introduction of golden ales which have found favour with a lot of lager drinkers and particularly women who like the lighter style.
We should take pride in the variety and uniqueness of our beers as do the French their wines. I think its great of find a real ale pub seeing 15 ales. It's even better going to Norwich beer festival and finding over a hundred on sale. Every one of those will taste different. I like beer for exactly that reason: the taste. I don't drink to get drunk. Be proud of a a unique British product.
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>>We should take pride
Reading through this thread I see a few of 'em indeed do just that.
:o)
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By pure coincidence, just now I came across a news item from the little town where I grew up - Wiveliscombe in West Somerset.
When I was a boy 60 years ago the town's major industry was a brewery, originally owned by the Hancock family, linked with the Hancock brewers in Cardiff, then merged with Arnolds of nearby Taunton as Arnold & Hancock, then taken over by Ushers from Trowbridge, then in turn taken over by Watneys and eventually closed. Since then the historic buildings - used before brewing for making cheap cloth for the slave trade and since the closure as a chicken processing plant - have come back to life as a brewing centre for two different firms, the well-known and successful Exmoor and Cotleigh Breweries.
Now I see that one of the town's two pubs has new landlords and guess what? They have embarked on brewing their own beer. All this in a town of about 1,200 inhabitants and not much of a catchment area.
As well as being an accomplished and award-winning journalist, not to mention being the Indiana Jones of industrial archaeology, I also have letters after my name to prove my ability as an economist. And I say: none of what is happening to brewing in the UK makes any sense in the medium or long term. Basic economics means that no-one makes much money, if any, customers are just commoditised and eventually failure beckons.
So there you go...
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>>none of what is happening to brewing in the UK makes any sense in the medium or long term. Basic economics means that no-one makes much money, if any, customers are just commoditised and eventually failure beckons.
Praps some peeps do it for the love of it - I would do something like that - as long as it covered my outgoings and bought me a tin of b/beans once in a while.
When I started out in the car tuning game in 1978, I did it for the love of cars. The spondulics came in handy though.
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Odd isn't it. Take a local business which is vertically integrated, from brewing the stuff to pubs. Rationalisation means it's taken over/becomes a national company, closing certainly the brewery - and quite possibly the pubs too.
So there's an obvious gap for a new vertically integrated local business.
Discuss: Was the first one a success, or a failure?
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>> Odd isn't it. Take a local business which is vertically integrated, from brewing the stuff
>> to pubs. Rationalisation means it's taken over/becomes a national company, closing certainly the brewery -
>> and quite possibly the pubs too.
>>
>> So there's an obvious gap for a new vertically integrated local business.
>>
>> Discuss: Was the first one a success, or a failure?
It was a success for the big six brewers in particular, who not only brewed the beer but owned the pubs and tended to have geographical dominance. If you lived in Leeds for example, you basically drank Tetleys (Allied Breweries).
The beer industry was deliberately disrupted by the beer orders from about 1990. The big brewers were not allowed to own more than 2,000 tied houses, and had to allow a third-party-supplied guest beer to be sold.
The unintended consequence was that the big ones either spun off the pubs as a separate company, or sold the brewery.
It undoubtedly increased choice but did not necessarily help landlords. The breweries had overcharged tenants for beer but to some extent that offset low rents. Once the beer margin was gone, the rents rapidly went up and that must have led to increased closures. About a third of pubs have gone in the last 25 years or so.
The beer orders were revoked about 10 years ago after the vertical integration had been pretty well eliminated, and it was determined that there were no anti-competitive market forces any more.
Microbreweries are hard work, I thought about starting one with a friend who has done it before. But we saw sense. Liking beer is not a reason for buying a pub, or starting a brewery!
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 8 Jun 15 at 14:59
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>> It was a success for the big six brewers in particular, who not only brewed
>> the beer but owned the pubs and tended to have geographical dominance. If you lived
>> in Leeds for example, you basically drank Tetleys (Allied Breweries).
Thanks Manatee. I was just about to compose a post making the same points about beer orders and the 'unintended consequence' of the Pubcos.
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>> I think its great to find a real ale pub seeing 15 ales. >>
Well said.
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I spent this Saturday (11am start) visiting many pubs in central London, taking in many sites of both well known and lesser known cultural and historic interest and importance en route. We do this once a year in the summer, a bunch of roughly 12 like minded and convivial fellows. We always seem to get cracking weather, this year was no exception.
I had many different and excellent beers during the day. I know they must have been good because I can't remember what any of them were called now. I also had a good draught Breton cider in one hostelry just outside Spitalfields. I do recall that the last pub was a Sam Smiths one, and that was easily the least enjoyable drink of the day.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 8 Jun 15 at 11:43
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'Convivial fellows'? 'Hostelry'? You'll be morris dancing next.
Desperately looks for a 'smiley' face before I get thrown off here...
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Morris dancing? Bells to that.
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A troupe of genuine Morris Dancers turned up at the pub in Nutbourne near us a few years ago and put on a full Cloggies-style performance in the street outside, whacking their batons together and so on. We'd gone there for a drink with two visiting Algerians and the dancers were the icing on the cake. It's the only time I've ever seen them there or anywhere else.
To say that the Algerians were amazed would be an understatement. They frowned a bit, as if suspecting we had put the whole thing on to confuse and puzzle them.
Shamelessly naff, that's us. A gauge of confidence and indifference to others' opinions. I hope we stay like that, but I'm afraid others here will disapprove and want us to be rational, dignified and disciplined.
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Some English nana round here started advertising for people to set up a morris dancing group a few years ago.
I soon put a stop to that.
It's bad enough in the UK - a load of bloomin' bank clerks with pewter tankards on their belts...
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Mon 8 Jun 15 at 15:41
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>> Some English nana round here started advertising for people to set up a morris dancing group a few years ago.
>> I soon put a stop to that.
Tsk! See what I mean? Chap lives abroad for a few years and his national pride drains away...
People like dressing up in costumes and drinking heavily in like-minded groups. Morris dancers are a bit less baleful than people wearing Waterloo infantry costumes, let alone Wehrmacht or US Army uniforms.
I wouldn't do it (my dear the people! And the boredom!) but I'm glad there are others more fun-loving and convivial than I am. Life's rich tapestry is quite rich here by world standards.
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Sir Thomas Beecham, I think, said something like:-
"Try anything once, except morris dancing and incest"
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What did Maurice have to say about the subject?
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I remember New Year in the late 80s at the Guildford Arms ( www.guildfordarms.com ) just off Princes Street in Edinburgh.
They closed at 11pm and we headed up to the Tron for the bells (before the Hogmanay Party mince started up) and the Guildford were selling 4 pint flagons of "Harvest Ale" for £8 a pop (a pint in a working mans' pub would been around 95p then).
Alas little did we know it was 11-12% ABV. Nice and very malty.
Probably about the most blootered I can remember getting (a few times I can't remember of course...)
I presume it would have been something like this:
www.jwlees.co.uk/beers/harvest-ale
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 9 Jun 15 at 01:20
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>>Alas little did we know it was 11-12% ABV.
Blimey guvnor, that was stronger than: www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/9/12652/
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>> Sir Thomas Beecham, I think, said something like:-
>>
>> "Try anything once, except morris dancing and incest"
Arnold Bax I think, and IIRC he didn't pick on Morris but included all "folk dancing":)
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Howls about some smuttynose old brown dog: smuttynose.com/beer/old-brown-dog/
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Beer - Bromptonaut
