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Ongoing Election chat.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 11 May 15 at 21:52
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32633388
Seem to recall the unions said they would disenfranchise from the party if he went,
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Only a matter of time. I wonder if the unions are thinking what on earth were we thinking?
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>> Only a matter of time. I wonder if the unions are thinking what on earth
>> were we thinking?
Union thinking is still 50 years out of date.
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Mods would it not have made sense to start this thread from post election discussion rather than just the last couple of posts?
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>> Mods would it not have made sense to start this thread from post election discussion
>> rather than just the last couple of posts?
Like I've said many time before, just copy/paste a snipette over from the last thread (make reference to it if you like) and continue the debate in the next thread.
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They [Labour] are rather hammering their failure against the SNP as being the source of all ills. If Labour had won *all* of their SNP contests, they still wouldn't be forming any part of any Government.
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>> They [Labour] are rather hammering their failure against the SNP as being the source of
>> all ills. If Labour had won *all* of their SNP contests, they still wouldn't be
>> forming any part of any Government.
Spot on. In the overall scale of things Scottish seats are academic. Labour's problem is it's failure to catch key marginal/swing seats. Clear by small hours of this morning when they failed to take Nuneaton and lost Southampton Itchen that the exit polls were broadly right.
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question Bromp, does / did Labour really know what it wants to be?
Is it :
a radical left working class party representing the "working man", for the poor against the rich, for the workers against the bosses type of party or
a "progressive" party recognising the importance of wealth creation and business strength and encouraging people to stand up for themselves while protecting and lookin after the weak kind of party or
something else entirely?
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Cut and paste from the previous thread:-
"I think taking all political feelings out of it, you have to admire the SNP campaign - what a huge success it was . Nicola handled herself very well in all the debates, the hustings, the interviews and they really "got" what was important in Scotland. Also through lots of my English friends and relatives, and some on here as well, there seems to be a grudging admiration for her and what she has done".
As an Englishman living in England:-
I think that the piece above is just about right. Nicola did it spot on. She was seen as a more attractive (in every sense of the word) leader than Alex Salmond. I feel that perhaps he was seen as another bully boy in the style of Gordon Brown.
Ed Milliband played right into the SNP's hands with his point blank refusal to deal with them.
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"Nicola handled herself very well.."
Your opinion. Mine is that she seemed arrogant and overconfident. Can't stand her. Salmond, of course, is even worse.
"Ed Milliband played right into the SNP's hands with his point blank refusal to deal with them." Senior Labour figures pretty quickly indicated there would be no choice but to deal with them.
Difficult to see what the SNP got out of Ed's initial refusal to deal with them. It was their only chance to wield real power at Westminster.
The SNP are poison to the rest of the UK.
Last edited by: Observer on Fri 8 May 15 at 11:20
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So you don't think Cameron is arrogant and over confident? You think a political leader shouldn't show signs of confidence?
>>The SNP are poison to the rest of the UK.
dear oh dear
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"So you don't think Cameron is arrogant and over confident?"
Course he is. I was commenting on someone's view of Sturgeon, by the way.
"You think a political leader shouldn't show signs of confidence?" I said "over-confident".
The SNP are poison to the whole concept of the UK, despite Sturgeon's weasel words about being friends with the English. They want out, taking as much in the way of resources and money as possible. They will ask for another referendum (despite having said the last one was "once in a lifetime") and if the Scots vote to leave I shan't be sorry - not now.
I was upset at the thought last autumn, but now they've apparently nailed their colours to the mast of the SNP, with all the misleading economic blandishments that party offered, the best of luck to them. The SNP wants to end austerity and has set itself up as bigger spenders than Labour. If anyone believes the sums add up they're in some kind of parallel universe.
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>> The SNP are poison to the rest of the UK.
One of the side effects of the referendum result, like it or not depending on your opinion, was that you have to accept the SNP as a serious contributor to british politics.
It would be better if one didn't think that they would use it to angle a break up after grabbing all the sweeties, smash and grab style. One would hope they will use the power they wield in future elections to better themselves and create a stronger union with a larger part to play within.
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"One would hope they will use the power they wield in future elections to better themselves and create a stronger union with a larger part to play within."
A stronger union? The SNP?
How naive.
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>> "One would hope they will use the power they wield in future elections to better
>> themselves and create a stronger union with a larger part to play within."
>>
>> A stronger union? The SNP?
>>
>> How naive.
You will note I was naive enough to give both possibilities, although you only chose to quote me on the one that suited your agenda
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"You will note I was naive enough to give both possibilities, although you only chose to quote me on the one that suited your agenda."
Is this the bit I should have quoted?
"It would be better if one didn't think that they would use it to angle a break up after grabbing all the sweeties, smash and grab style."
You're saying that it's better not to think the worst of them. That's naive too.
Or are you complaining I didn't quote this: "...you have to accept the SNP as a serious contributor to british politics."
I don't underestimate them, if that's what you mean. Whether you can take seriously on the British political scene a party with 56 MPs based on a relatively few number of votes remains to be seen. Their capacity for mischief is obvious, however.
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>> "You will note I was naive enough to give both possibilities, although you only chose
>> to quote me on the one that suited your agenda."
>>
>> Is this the bit I should have quoted?
Yes that is the bit you should have quoted, surprised you didn't as it clearly panders to your rabid and viitreolic anti SNP stance
>> You're saying that it's better not to think the worst of them. That's naive too.
Being aware of the two extreme possibilities but hoping for the better outcome is not naivety
>> Or are you complaining I didn't quote this: "...you have to accept the SNP as
>> a serious contributor to british politics."
>>
>> I don't underestimate them, if that's what you mean. Whether you can take seriously on
>> the British political scene a party with 56 MPs based on a relatively few number
>> of votes remains to be seen.
Anyone who can wipe oout all three major incumbents parties in a country has to be taken seriously
Unlike UKIP who were shambolic and amateurish so can't be taken seriously
>>
>>
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>> It would be better if one didn't think that they would use it to angle
>> a break up after grabbing all the sweeties, smash and grab style. One would hope
>> they will use the power they wield in future elections to better themselves and create
>> a stronger union with a larger part to play within.
>>
I would not put money on that theory. They are National Socialists to the core.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 8 May 15 at 12:45
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>> I would not put money on that theory. They are National Socialists to the core.
>>
Whoever provided the scowly should remember that I have lived in Scotland for over 50 years, I have seen anti English graffiti, English language road signs painted out, SNP rentamobs in action, witnessed hostility to the English, etc, etc.
I have also met and worked with some of the most hospitable and well mannered people you could wish to meet.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 8 May 15 at 14:54
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>> Whoever provided the scowly should remember that I have lived in Scotland for over 50
>> years, I have seen anti English graffiti, English language road signs painted out, SNP rentamobs
>> in action, witnessed hostility to the English, etc, etc.
I too have seen anti English graffiti in Scotland. I've also seen road signs painted out in Wales and read of cottages being burned. There are nutters in nationalism as in every other cause.
My issue was with the use of the phrase National Socialist.
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>> My issue was with the use of the phrase National Socialist.
>>
Call them whatever you like, but do not underestimate them.
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>> >> My issue was with the use of the phrase National Socialist.
>> >>
>>
>> Call them whatever you like, but do not underestimate them.
Not sure the old matelot meant to call them Nazis, tho its possible iguess
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 8 May 15 at 15:35
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Its possible. I have seen their nasty side. It was many years ago, leopards and spots.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 8 May 15 at 15:41
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>> >> >> National Socialist.
>> >>
>> Nazis
That explains it - thanks.
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Nationalists - check.
Socialists - check.
Q.E.D.
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Let's face it. The Tories have won, but it's hardly a ringing endorsement now, is it? They have scraped over the line, but after months of being told it's going to be a hung parliament, it feels like a major victory. It is far from that. They have essentially been elected by the annihilation of Labour in Scotland and fear in England of a Labour/SNP coalition. Had we seen polls indicating a Tory landslide and this result had been delivered, there would be much sucking of teeth and discussion of the Tory leadership being under fire and under threat, and Cameron being a weak leader/lame duck/medium well done goose.
Funny old world. Perception is everything, it seems.
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>>They have essentially been elected by the annihilation of Labour in Scotland
Absolutely not a factor.
Add all the SNP seats to Labour. Are they now a majority? Are they any closer to being the Government? No.
>>and fear in England of a Labour/SNP coalition.
I'm not there, but was it so great? None of my friends / relatives / colleagues seemed to think so.
>>Funny old world. Perception is everything, it seems.
If that is news to you, then I have this bridge in Brooklyn you may be interested in buying...
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Of course it's not news to me.
If you look at the raw numbers of seats this morning, of course you're right. The bit you're missing is this, IMHO: if the polls had been showing a Labour party remaining dominant in Scotland, and there had been no mention of a Labour/SNP coalition, then I believe fewer people would have voted Conservative in England and the result would have been very different - there would have been no fear of the Labour/SNP disaster, no need to vote tactically against that.
It was put to us in very, very strong terms by the media that a Lab/SNP coalition was a-coming, I think this has influenced the outcome in England significantly. This hasn't been a victory of Tory over Labour, but a victory of Tory over fear of Labour&SNP. A masterstroke by the Tory press.
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>>if the polls had been showing a Labour party remaining dominant in Scotland, and there
>>had been no mention of a Labour/SNP coalition, then I believe fewer people would have
>>voted Conservative in England
The Conservatives gained something like 25 seats I think. Is there somewhere I can look to see where/who they came from?
Can you believe that BBC World stopped coverage of the election at 7.00am this morning to focus on other news!!
b***** idiots. I don;t know if I've ever mentioned it, but I really dislike the BBC.
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>
>> Can you believe that BBC World stopped coverage of the election at 7.00am this morning
>> to focus on other news!!
>>
>> b***** idiots. I don;t know if I've ever mentioned it, but I really dislike the
>> BBC.
>
Yes, often and very vocally. Have I ever told you to get a good proxy? yes I have.
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BTW, when is Paddy Ashdown scheduled for the great hat eating show?
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Spot-on, Alanović.
The horror of a lame Labour government propped up, but hamstrung, by the SNP with its own agenda, was one of the most motivating scenarios the Tories could have wished for.
Perhaps Miliband did realise this when he tried - unconvincingly - to rule out co-operation with the SNP.
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If it wasn't Labour & SNP as the horror scenario, it would have been wasted votes to UKIP as the big horror or whatever. I do not believe it was all about any single factor.
It was a negative campaign all around more about what we will not do than about what we will do, by all of the parties.
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>>The horror of a lame Labour government propped up...
But that had to start with the belief that it was going to be a "lame Labour government". What was preventing people voting for a strong Labour government? Surely that would have frightened the Conservative supporters more?
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"But that had to start with the belief that it was going to be a "lame Labour government". What was preventing people voting for a strong Labour government? Surely that would have frightened the Conservative supporters more?"
Good point, but the electorate (I believe) never saw Labour as potentially strong. The stench of the economic collapse stuck to them, Ed always looked like a wannabe, not a real, prime minister, and what about the rest of the team? Balls was a joke... and... who were the others? I don't remember.
Last edited by: Observer on Fri 8 May 15 at 13:15
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No election is about Conservative or Labour supporters. It's about the floaters in the marginals. This time they've been blown to the right, I think the SNP thing is one of the main reasons. The mainest (sorry) reason is probably, as always, the economy, though.
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Let's face it. The Tories have won, but it's hardly a ringing endorsement now, is it?
36.9% of the popular vote.
No - not exactly a ringing endorsement.
The outgoing coalition had 59.1% - which was a huge measure of popular support - pretty much unparalleled in recent history.
Labour in 2005 had 35.2%, of course, which was even less of an endorsement than the Conservatives have just received.
In recent decades, most governments have needed 40% to get an overall majority.
But what share of the vote do you actually need to call it "a ringing endorsement"?
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I think 40% is going to be vary difficult as long as there are 4 or more "credible" parties to get votes at a general election level. It always used to be a labour, conservative and also rans choice.
Not this time and maybe not any more.
Makes FPTP a question doesn't it?
FWIW I can see just as many problems with any form of AV I've heard of
by the way, some pretty poor losers on here
Last edited by: commerdriver on Fri 8 May 15 at 14:18
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"Makes FPTP a question doesn't it?"
Ah, but parties that like FPTP got over 550 out of 650 seats - a huge majority. Indeed, a veritable landslide!
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"Let's face it. The Tories have won, but it's hardly a ringing endorsement now, is it?"
I think it is. They have, after all, got more MPs than all the other parties put together, and then some. It may not be a landslide but that's no bad thing. The numbers can be carved up in many ways to prove whatever particular point needs to be scored, but in the way things work in the UK electoral system they have won by quite a reasonable majority, and the rest lost.
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"but in the way things work in the UK electoral system . . ."
Ah, but that's the point. Is the UK electoral system an appropriate way to assess what constitutes a ringing endorsement.
For example, the fact that UKIP got 1 MP for almost 4 million votes, but the SNP got 56 for about one and half million does raise questions.
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>> I think it is. They have, after all, got more MPs than all the other
>> parties put together, and then some.
They've won but it's no ringing endorsement.
With one seat still to declare (St Ives) they've got an overall majority of 4 or 5. That's less than John Major's in 1992 but a bit more than Harold Wilson in 1964.
Like Major Cameron is vulnerable to stunts by his own backbenchers, to illness amongst his troops and to by-elections. In practice he'll have support of Ulster Unionists and on much but not all his programme the sole Kipper. By mid term he's going to be struggling.......
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>> >> I think it is. They have, after all, got more MPs than all the
>> other
>> >> parties put together, and then some.
>>
>> They've won but it's no ringing endorsement.
No its not -its a ringing condemnation of labour. The tories didn't win, labour gifted it to them.
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>> By mid term he's going to be
>> struggling.......
>>
He's won in no small measure thanks to Nicola Sturgeon's arrogant posturing and boasts of controlling a winning labour government. That fish must have stuck in the gullet even of many labour supporters.
She's done her best to provoke an English backlash. If she doesn't pipe down now then resurgent English nationalism will switch more firmly from Ukip to the Conservatives.
Unless the SNP's aim really is to provoke a constitutional confrontation with their preferred Conservative government, as I suggested some time ago, then she needs to tread very carefully.
Cameron so far has played a masterful game.
Incidentally, it was a generous and gentlemanly touch to thank Nick Clegg first of all in his Downing Street speech.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Fri 8 May 15 at 14:57
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Well deserved thanks to Clegg, if he hadn't been doing the right thing by the country at the expense of his own career and party, Cameron wouldn't be where he is now.
If only the electorate got it. We need more like Clegg, not fewer. Sad.
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"He's won in no small measure thanks to Nicola Sturgeon's arrogant posturing and boasts of controlling a winning labour government. That fish must have stuck in the gullet even of many labour supporters.
She's done her best to provoke an English backlash."
Agreed. But even Ms Sturgeon realised she was over-reaching herself and possibly even shooting herself in the foot. "Extend the hand of friendship" to the English was the phrase she belatedly came up with.
Now she must realise that, by focusing voters' thoughts on a Labour/SNP coalition, she killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Last edited by: Observer on Fri 8 May 15 at 15:12
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I suspect in Scotland, the "no more austerity" bit went down well as did the "stronger voice for Scotland".
I also suspect that while a Tory majority isn't entirely what she wanted it's probably a good one for the SNP's long term ambitions.
Don't underestimate Nicola, she's a lot cleverer and has a more long term outlook than Mr Salmond.
I hope the Tories (and the other UK parties) can come up with something on that front.
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All the Tories need to do is give Scotland control of taxation and let them collect their own taxes and pay their own way... plus a bit for defence , interest etc.
Then basically Scotland has an independent economy.. They'll have no-one to blame when they have to impose austerity..
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That would sort out some of it but they would still blame the English somehow, in any case it would be better if something could be done for the No voters who actually still want a union, most Scots are not rabid anti English nationalists although more than a few fit that description.
Do any of the Scots members on here see any possibility of the other parties recovering in the future & restoring some form of political balance.
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>> Do any of the Scots members on here see any possibility of the other parties
>> recovering in the future & restoring some form of political balance.
>>
Like all political parties their popularity will wane. When they don't produce a land of plenty their base in the benefit dependent cities (Glasgow, Dundee) will fade. As I said before, a Westminster election is different to a Scottish government election or referendum.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 8 May 15 at 15:50
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>Do any of the Scots members on here see any possibility of the other parties
>> recovering in the future & restoring some form of political balance.
in short, yes.
The benefit that SNP have is that they have never ran the Westminster Parliament so can slander a lot of what other parties have. In Scotland where they do run it, many would say they are doing an alright job but again they have a caveat that they can say they do not have control of everything.
I genuinely think that if Labour could change their leader, their ethos and push more left then they could come back. They stood together with the Tories in better together and that annoyed many of their Yes supporting followers. Their No followers, it didn't worry them. However for the national election they simply did not distance themselves enough from Tories - now whether that was due to them not getting the Labour message across or whether that was cleaver PR from SNP branding them both the same I am not sure.
Either way, I think they will come back but it will take time and a radical rethink.
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" push more left "
The problem for Labour is that the Scots might accept them if they moved more to the left, but the English would reject them even more emphatically. In England, socialism is being increasingly seen as a bitter, obsolete religion.
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but the English would reject them even more emphatically. In England, socialism
>> is being increasingly seen as a bitter, obsolete religion.
>>
Possibly, but maybe there is space for them to attract new voters?
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>>Either way, I think they will come back but it will take time and a radical rethink.
I wonder how an independant-fomr-labour left wing party, like the SNP, but that did not favour splitting from the UK would work.
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>> Incidentally, it was a generous and gentlemanly touch to thank Nick Clegg first of all in his Downing Street speech.
The Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy made a similarly gentlemanly and generous concession speech praising the behaviour of the SNP leadership after he had been heckled by fringe SNP supporters.
I am still flabbergasted by the hecatomb of the British left that has occurred. All my wishful-thinking predictions were hopelessly wide of the mark. But I am not alone... when the Telegraph went to press last night it still seemed to think the Tories would need a coalition to retain 'power'.
I note though that the Conservatives have refrained from triumphalist jeering at their vanquished opponents, and that people here have too. Perhaps normal service will be resumed when everyone has recovered from their shock.
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"All my wishful-thinking predictions were hopelessly wide of the mark. But I am not alone... "
Just about nobody saw it coming. Dozens of opinion polls told us that the two big parties were neck and neck - and they had been saying that for months. And then when the real vote came, the Conservatives turned out to be over 6 percentage points ahead.
And as for the Conservatives getting an overall majority, again - total surprise.
As many have said, just like 1992.
Last edited by: tyro on Fri 8 May 15 at 16:24
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>>>>
>> Just about nobody saw it coming. Dozens of opinion polls told us that the two
>> big parties were neck and neck - and they had been saying that for months.
>> And then when the real vote came, the Conservatives turned out to be over 6
>> percentage points ahead.
>>
>> And as for the Conservatives getting an overall majority, again - total surprise.
>>
>>
A few of us here said we wouldn't be surprised at a Conservative overall majority if you check back. In my case it was because I expected a backlash against the SNP in the English marginals. Constantly harping about how they were going to team with Labour to keep the Tories out got up the noses of the floating voters. No one wants to be dictated to by a party that regards itself as part of a foreign country.
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>> and that people here have too. Perhaps normal service will be resumed when everyone has
>> recovered from their shock.
>>
I'm willing to give it a go, you daft old Lefty...;-)
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>> hecatomb of the British left that has occurred.
Quiet please form. AC has used an interesting word there.
Those of you who don't know its meaning look it up, then write it down in your vocab book.
Well done, AC.
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>> >> hecatomb of the British left that has occurred.
>>
>> Quiet please form. AC has used an interesting word there.
>> Those of you who don't know its meaning look it up, then write it down
>> in your vocab book.
>> Well done, AC.
>>
Looks like a load of bullshine to me. :-)
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St Austell & Newquay Con gain from LD.
Con 20,250
LD 12,077
UKIP 8,503
Lab 5,150
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Election wins start years before an election by choosing the right leader who then thinks out an election strategy that has a chance of succeeding.
Labour chose a man as Leader who had all the appeal of a student politician and all the experience of err a student politician.
And when elected leader Ed chose a strategy which concentrated solely on its core vote, did not try to win converts from other parties and chose a political stance which has won Labour nothing since Harold Wilson...
Truly myopic.
Cameron is not a great leader but a lucky one. The energy price cuts , the SNP and Ed Miliband conspired to make sure he was the only sensible choice for enough people in England.to win a majority...
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>> Labour chose a man as Leader who had all the appeal of a student politician
>> and all the experience of err a student politician.
The Unions chose him. The rest of the party wanted David Miliband.
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Anyone who thinks the new Government is going to face a united Opposition is not thinking straight.
The LDs are dead..
The SNP will probably upset everyone..
UKIP/Greens/Sinn Fein/SDP/ irrelevant.
DUP: bribeable.
Labour?
Due for a new leader. The Tories needed 3 tries to get it right. Labour have just lost number 1. And they have to agree WHY they lost so they can change.. That will take years and lots of rows.
Last edited by: madf on Fri 8 May 15 at 14:45
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all the doom & gloom mongers forgetting a detail or 2 which Cameron should get done with no problems from his back benchers and which will make politics a little easier for him and his successors.
1. English votes for English laws
2. Making electoral boundaries "fairer"
hard to see any tory MP voting against either of these, worded in a suitable bill, with a big enough majority to get them through.
You may not be impressed by him or his majority but the future looks bright if you like blue.
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Cornwall now completely blue. no LibDem presence here at all now.
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Same around here, all blue which was no surprise. ukip ran them closeish. Council was voted in, ukip/con split again no surprise. Very few lab or ld around, we've probably got more inds than them.
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"Six Tory MPs were elected in each of the Duchy's half dozen seats, confirming an horrific collapse for the Liberal Democrats.
The St Ives constituency was the last to declare at 3.25pm this afternoon, with Conservative Derek Thomas ending Lib Dem Andrew George's 18 years as an MP with a 2,000 majority".
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Item removed - can you give us a clue what it was?
I blinked and missed it.
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Milliband's stone tablet.
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"Milliband's stone tablet."
Ah - thanks. I had caught the ad earlier via another link.
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>> "Milliband's stone tablet."
>>
>> Ah - thanks. I had caught the ad earlier via another link.
>>
The best suggestion for it that I have seen is a kitchen worktop.
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>> DM story: tinyurl.com/q9v59cz
Holy Scheiss, did you read any of the comments Focus?
There are a few honourable exceptions, but the majority show just how ignorant and illiterate and damn nasty we are as a nation. And overwhelmingly backward and reactionary. You don't have to approve of Ed's silly slab to recognise that.
Anyone who holds a referendum on anything with these people is asking for trouble. I feel quite sick.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 9 May 15 at 18:27
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>> There are a few honourable exceptions, but the majority show just how ignorant and illiterate
>> and damn nasty we are as a nation. And overwhelmingly backward and reactionary.
They weren't that bad. Most of it I agreed with.
I don't think the unpleasant personal comments are needed, but hey ho, it takes all sorts.
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>> >> DM story: tinyurl.com/q9v59cz
>>
>> Holy Scheiss, did you read any of the comments Focus?
Some, although as usual I started by clicking on the 'Best rated' tab which tends to weed out most of the more extreme stuff (actually moves it to the bottom but I don't read that far).
>> There are a few honourable exceptions, but the majority show just how ignorant and illiterate
>> and damn nasty we some(?) DM online readers are as a nation.
Fixed it for you :)
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>> ignorant and illiterate
>> and damn nasty we some(?) DM online readers are as a nation.
If only. But it isn't just 'some DM online readers'. It's a lot of people including a few here.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 11 May 15 at 01:31
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Tis puzzling to me how come Cornwall is one of the poorest areas in the United Kingdom, with a GDP of 62% of the national average, and is one of four UK areas that qualifies for poverty-related grants from the EU (European Social Fund) but doesn't return a single solitary Labour MP.
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Rural areas don't vote Labour. Same round here quite poor and rural yet more chance of flying pig than returning labour on the council or mp.
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>> Tis puzzling to me how come Cornwall is one of the poorest areas in the
>> United Kingdom, with a GDP of 62% of the national average, and is one of
>> four UK areas that qualifies for poverty-related grants from the EU (European Social Fund) but
>> doesn't return a single solitary Labour MP.
>>
Farmers work hard.
Labour MPs from wealthy upbringings - like Miliband , Benn, Umana don't understand that..
Farmers shoot foxes .. Labour politicians ban fox hunting.
Simples,
Remember Miliband went straight from university to politics. Never done a day's work in his life where his output is relied on by someone to generate a profit...
Last edited by: madf on Fri 8 May 15 at 21:03
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>>Rural areas don't vote Labour
>>Farmers work hard.
>> Labour MPs from wealthy upbringings - like Miliband , Benn, Umana don't understand that..
>>Farmers shoot foxes .. Labour politicians ban fox hunting.
Fair doos. The last Labour MP we had down here was ten years ago:
"At the 2005 General Election, Atherton lost her seat to Liberal Democrat Julia Goldsworthy by a majority of 1,886. Goldsworthy was later accused of a dirty tricks campaign, as in her election literature she had published a photograph of Atherton looking rain-swept and dishevelled next to a photograph of herself looking smart, with the caption "Who do you want as your next MP?". A constituent accused Goldsworthy of turning the campaign into a beauty contest".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_Atherton
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>>Remember Miliband went straight from university to politics. Never done a day's work in
>>his life where his output is relied on by someone to generate a profit..
Various of my school acquaintances were into politics. The schools I went to seemed awfully concerned that we should not only care and understand, but wish to be involved as politicians.
As far as I can recall all the ones that did were pretty painful people, whatever their political allegiance. I know that at least two of them are now MPs, and despite being on the same side of the political fence, if they were in my area I would move rather than vote for them.
I wasn't very good at it. [Actually I was fairly sure I was a genius, I was just surprised how often my audience was too stupid to be able to understand how right I was].
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The City of Manchester is totally red now, the LD MP for Withington being hoofed out.
Pundits say it's because of the huge student population V student grants issue. We got Sir Gerald back. Our Kipper got 8K plus.
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Can someone just clatify for me what exactly a "percentage swing" means?
Supposing a party got 10 votes last time, and increased that to 20 in this election. That's a 100% swing from their point of view. But the party that previously got 10,000 votes and now got only 9, 990 has barely suffered a swing at all.
So an increase from say 30% of the vote to 35% is a) a 5% swing, or b) 16.6% ?
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a)
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 9 May 15 at 09:03
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I just heard on the TV someone suggest that Cameron should call Sturgeons bluff but offering Scotland full fiscal autonomy. That would bring Scotland into the real world.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 9 May 15 at 11:28
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>> I just heard on the TV someone suggest that Cameron should call Sturgeons bluff but
>> offering Scotland full fiscal autonomy. That would bring Scotland into the real world.
I have a feeling thats what he might be planning and on the back bringing in "English" policies. Its a very good ploy and a way of taking the jocks out of play in parliament as opposition.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 9 May 15 at 11:37
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"...offering Scotland full fiscal autonomy..."
Great idea.
And no bail-outs.
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If the Scots held another referendum most of the rest of the UK would now be telling them to go and do one and shut the door behind them.
Should they ever actually get it however, with a substantial proportion of their population in the Unionist camp I could see them with a situation similar to that in Northern Ireland at some point in the future, particularly as their economy would most likely bomb.
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"Should they ever actually get it ........"
From what my wife's Scottish rellies were telling us two years ago, England can expect a refugee problem. Where are those Polish brickies when you need them?
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I think it's fair to say that the surge to support SNP (just over 50% of votes cast, vs 25% Labour, 15% Tory, 10% others) is more about representation of Scottish needs/wants rather than a mass swing for separation.
I think ultimately for the well-being of the Union even in England there needs to be some redistribution of the way the country is run - the London-centric nature of both government and the financial running of the nation(s) means that the North of England and Wales/NI will almost always be 'worse off' than the South East.
I'd hesitate before saying HS2 will somehow shift some of the imbalance away from London (it might simply make it easier to go to London of course).
The bigger London gets, the more the monster needs fed (more runways, more infrastructure, etc) and the greater the resources need to go to the already wealthier/most expensive part of the UK.
Physically the SE of England is closest to Europe (our main foreign trading partners) and thus I expect there will always be a relative need for the SE to be the wealthiest part of the UK, but when it comes to air travel and business that doesn't need physical proximity to be effective I have some interest in what Osborne is saying about trying to boost the NE of England's profile and infrastructure.
Whether the ideas become a reality of course is another matter, but a growing and richer NE would surely be better for Tory votes/seats than at present so I expect there is more than simply lip-service going on in Govt regarding this.
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"Farmers work hard"
Well there are farmers and farmers. If you own a small family farm or a hill farm then it is indeed damned hard work. If you are a barley baron in East Anglia with an agribusiness and a vast acreage then I'm not sure. After harvest and drilling the new crop in the autumn thre isn't much to do except spray the stuff with assorted chemicals and fill in forms for grants for replanting the hedges you ripped out twenty year ago to qualify for a grant, and then treat yourself to a month in Caribbean for Christmas.
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I've known quite a few farmers in the 17 years I've lived in Cornwall. The dairy farmers do work had, for little profit it seems, probably why they sell their barns off, then sell most of their land off to the 'big boys', then sell their farmhouse off, and then buy/build a bung a low.
I see a farmer pass my gate everyday in his tractor with a bale of hay stuck on the end of it, for his livestock.
He doesn't work hard at all, but neither does he spend a month in the Caribbean each year.
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Tell him to move to Norfolk and buy a few thousand acres of arable.
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FARMER ON A BIKE
Recorded by: John Crisp on Ampersand Music Farm 101
Old farmer Palmer was on the other day 'bout the price of his sugar-beet drill.
He reckoned he found the little green pound don't pay them big red bills,
And though he's got a private yacht, a race horse and three cars,
He always say the farm don't pay. That's how them farmers are.
But...
You Never See A Farmer on a Bike
CHORUS: I never seen a farmer on a bike.
I never seen a farmer on a bike.
Wherever I been, I never miss a thing,
But I never seen a farmer on a bike.
He do complain about the rain, the green fly or the drought.
He say black spot have ruined his crop but I can't make this out.
I seen him get on a jumbo jet. I seen him on a train,
But that'll be the day I see him bikin' down the lane. [CHORUS]
I worked for Palmer till I wore my fingers to the bone,
But when I speak of another pound a week, you ought to hear him moan.
And though his combine cost the farm, I'm sure you will agree,
He could dispose of his Volvos and bike about like me.
But... [CHORUS]
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>>FARMER ON A BIKE Recorded by: John Crisp
= = => www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNQ3itmFug8
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>>Tell him to move to Norfolk and buy a few thousand acres of arable.
Not enough rain in Norfolk. The Cornish like their rain, just as well really I suppose.
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That's an old story but quite interesting. The twittersphere is impossible to ignore and not helpful at all.
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If that article is true and the Coalition has a 10 day thinking horizon...
How come they won the Election with a "long term economic plan" them which was at least a year old?
and
What does this say about Labour's thinking horizon? 10 minutes?
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MILLIBAND TO STAND DOWN? - Zero
