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Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 10 May 15 at 19:13
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"My financial plan was poor and I was completely irresponsible by choosing to run up that debt"
Sounds like a Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer - except for the fact that I can't recall any Chancellors admitting it.
:-)
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Voted UKIP this morning. Feeling good.
In my constituency most likely Labour will win [very safe seat].
So, one might argue that my vote was a waste.
Which I disagree with because of following reasons:
1. My conscience says I should always support whose policies seem better (to me)
2. I tried my best and influenced few other people to vote for next generation
3. I wanted to be part of change rather than go with flow and crib later why nothing changes
Even if UKIP increase their vote count, it will force other parties to address real issues [e.g. immigration/EU etc.] for future.
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I would have voted for UKIP if I hadn't inadvertently filled in my wife's postal vote instead of my own. I gave my signed postal vote to my wife, so she could vote for whoever she wanted to and, she voted for UKIP.
We are a right pair of Kippers.
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Our household is organised properly. We vote as I say.
Err.. perhaps not :-)
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Voted early today, but not in the General Election, I abstained from that.
My vote went to the Resident's Association candidate in the local council election. Much to Lady Ds disgust.
Then a nice fry-up breakfast in Wetherspoons. £2.09, excellent!
Last edited by: Duncan on Thu 7 May 15 at 10:54
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>> Of course searches doesn't mean votes.
Indeed.
It may even count those searching strings such 'Nigel Farage is racist' or 'Nigel Farage is a pr@77'
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But there is no publicity like bad publicity.
Searches simply mean people are showing interest. Some of that will convert to votes.
Last edited by: movilogo on Thu 7 May 15 at 12:44
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I think it's the reason for his bad back.
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>> I think it's the reason for his bad back.
Yes, several crushed vertebrae poor fellow. Lucky not to be paralysed from the waist down actually.
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>> Yes, several crushed vertebrae poor fellow. Lucky not to be paralysed from the waist down
>> actually.
Lucky to be alive. IIRC the pilot was convicted of threatening Farage in the aftermath.
Accident report:
assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/5422ec1ce5274a13140000e7/PZL-104_Wilga_35A__G-BWDF_11-2010.pdf
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>> pilot was convicted of threatening Farage in the aftermath.
What with? He'd already done his worst.
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Awful business for all concerned. It's a nasty old world sometimes.
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Disappointed at the outcome.
UKIP got 12% of total vote yet only 1 seat so far.
Lib Dem or SNP got far fewer yet far more seats.
FPTP to blame?
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Yes - cannot argue with the only poll which counts. UKIP have not made the breakthrough for which we hoped.
Millions of votes = few seats. :-(
I just wonder how many waverers voted Tory because they were horrified by the prospect of the SNP being Labour's puppet master.
Ah well - keep on keeping on!
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 8 May 15 at 06:15
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UKIP supporters kept on claiming huge seat gains before elections.
It was pretty obvious they did not have one idea about the electoral system and how it works..
Glad to see Farage will lose.
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>> UKIP supporters kept on claiming huge seat gains before elections.
>>
>> It was pretty obvious they did not have one idea about the electoral system and
>> how it works..
>>
>> Glad to see Farage will lose.
Of course we know how FPP works, but one has to be positive before the polls!
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Are you also glad to see a government, whom 70% of population did not vote for, running the country?
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>> Are you also glad to see a government, whom 70% of population did not vote
>> for, running the country?
>>
Remind me which was the last Government to have a majority of the votes?
Edit and the Tories have at least 34% of the national vote...
Last edited by: madf on Fri 8 May 15 at 07:01
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>> Are you also glad to see a government, whom 70% of population did not vote
>> for, running the country?
>>
Who then, should run the country?
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Wallace & Gromit
Or am I confusing posts?
Free Wensleydale forever
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Watching from afar, didn't bother to vote because I haven't lived in the UK for the duration of the previous parliament although I do continue to fund UK govt policies via my UK tax if one equates taxation with representation....
However, when I see people (I guess understandably) call for PR, I would caution that this can result in oddities - like an Australian Senator (upper house) standing for the Motoring Enthusiasts Party gaining a seat on 0.51% of first preference votes but default preference transfer deals assured him victory on something like 14.3% of these preference transfers. You couldn't make it up.
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Do any C4P members live in Clacton, by the way?
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>> Yes - cannot argue with the only poll which counts. UKIP have not made the
>> breakthrough for which we hoped.
How many seats did you think you'd win realistically?
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I expected UKIP to win 5-6 seats.
I hope UKIP keeps the momentum and in 2020 election it would be interesting.
Labour might further plunge into crisis, with SNP getting stronger and LibDem obliterated, UKIP will increase vote share. Already they came 2nd or 3rd in lots of places which is an achievement.
UKIP's model reminds me that of India's BJP. Their parliamentary seats jumped from 2 to 85 in 1989 and currently they are in absolute majority by crushing 100-yr old Indian National Congress.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party
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I thought 2 was about right. I think more people voted for them than i thought, more than snp and ld put together.
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>> Millions of votes = few seats. :-(
But in each place they stood, less than someone else.
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>> But in each place they stood, less than someone else.
Would the outcome for UKIP be different if the AV referendum had gone the other way? I suspect not. UKIP is first choice territory, very few would vote say Tory (1) UKIP (2).
Kippers' votes redistributed to Tories OTOH might well have boosted Cameron.
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very few would vote say Tory
>> (1) UKIP (2).
>>
Really ? I'd bet lots would vote that way.
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No UKIP seats in Wales so far, which was a big risk, especially in the Valleys, areas that have ironically benefited from European Millions.
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We have to be realistic - we were stuffed.
Probably 3 to 4 million votes and 1 or maybe 2 seats.
The Scots have over 50 seats on a much smaller numerical vote.
Still, we knew the rules of the game.
Most of the more realistic (!) of us thought that perhaps 5 seats was a possible outcome.
Certainly if Nigel loses it will be a time for navel gazing, head-scratching and probable infighting - the bane of all small parties.
There are those in the party who have been dismayed by, as they see it, the abandonment of a truly Libertarian stance and a lurch to the centre or left, just to gather votes.
Red Kippers & Blue Kippers, as they have been classified !
I fancy that as we have done not too badly in Labour heartlands that the Red Kippers will win.
Locally our G.E. candidate received 16% of the votes with almost no local campaigning - and that in a rock solid Labour seat
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 8 May 15 at 09:57
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Off to the Council count soon to see how many votes I get!
Not sure if I wear my UKIP rosette :-)
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My feeling is that UKIP will do better a a more local level. I know one or two people who wouldn't vote for them for MP but toe the party line less in local politics.
Then if they can prove they can deliver they will do better at the next general election.
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>> Off to the Council count soon to see how many votes I get!
>> Not sure if I wear my UKIP rosette :-)
>>
Stuffed at locals, too. In my ward beaten by both Tory (won) & Labour. I got 4 x the number of votes of the LibDem, though!
Frankly, we did better in most seats, where we stood, when it was just a County or District Council election
It seems that the "bleed-over" from the General Election has shifted votes FROM us, not TO us.
Mind you, the General Election this time has been characterised by, in my view, a great deal of tactical voting, where previous UKIP voters have voted Tory to keep out the horrific prospect of a Labour Government heavily controlled by the far left /Red SNP.
It also seems to me, that where there are two or three council seats in one ward, we have been disadvantaged by only standing one of our limited number of candidates against, typically, two or three Labour candidates.
It is too easy for a voter to run down the ballot paper putting two or three Xs in the Labour boxes.
I think it would be better, next Council election, in 2019, for us to fight fewer seats, but make sure in multi-seat wards that we field a full house of candidates.
Now we need, like the rest of our party, to take stock and discuss how we move forward.
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Out of interest how many votes did you get?
I'd also be interested in your thoughts as to how many were for *you*, how many for UKIP and how many were just against the other.
Not that you would know, just your thoughts.
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"Stuffed at locals, too."
Hard luck, Roger. I voted UKIP in the GE but the Borough was open to 3 Tories and an experienced, creditable independent chap (no UKIP). I was very disappointed to see that the Indie didn't get re-elected; it certainly backed up the old maxim round here that 'folk would vote for a goat if it wore a blue ribbon'.
I'm also very disappointed that Farage didn't win his seat - a dull, grey parliament needs a character like him to stir things up.
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>> I'm also very disappointed that Farage didn't win his seat - a dull, grey parliament
>> needs a character like him to stir things up.
>>
You don't think Alec's Tartan Army will stir things up then?
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>> >> I'm also very disappointed that Farage didn't win his seat - a dull, grey
>> parliament needs a character like him to stir things up.
>> >>
>> You don't think Alec's Tartan Army will stir things up then?
>>
Boris might be interesting ?
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Alex/Boris - stirring things.
Good - but not up to Nigel's standard IMO.
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Why would your local candidate not do any campaigning? Whats the point in that?
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>> Why would your local candidate not do any campaigning? Whats the point in that?
>>
In non-target seats the local candidates pay for everything (inc GE £500 deposit) themselves.
Our candidate is a diesel mechanic working 6 days a week for a bus/coach company & often on emergency call-out duty.
The local branch is few in activists and low in funds for leaflet printing etc. - it's physically impossible to get round a constituency of around 60,000.
Not excuses - reasons - we WILL do better next time
Unlike the LibDem & Green candidates our chap saved his deposit, thankfully.
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This is an interesting read.
www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/05/06/what-would-britain-look-like-under-proportional-representation/
I guess when the referendum was offered on 2011 most people were not actually aware of exactly how it would have worked (and media convinced people it is bad). I personally did voted in favour of AV. Although AV is not same as PR and big political parties don't want common people to know all the technicalities of different voting methods.
I never expected UKIP to rule the country but it is sad that in spite of being 3rd in total number of votes, it is at the bottom of league table.
Full stats here.
www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2015/may/07/live-uk-election-results-in-full
Last edited by: movilogo on Fri 8 May 15 at 07:48
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Proportional Representation has its plusses, but the downside is that the voters lose the constituent MP.
So the party publishes a list of candidates, you vote for the party, and the top X on the list get seats. IF they are complete gits, you as a voter can't get rid of 'your' MP.
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>> Proportional Representation has its plusses, but the downside is that the voters lose the constituent
>> MP.
Not necessarily. The additional member system used in Scotland and Wales retains the constituency link but appoints further members to achieve proportionality. The downside is that (a) there are two classes of MP and (b) the incestuous way in which people are appointed to the list by their party, particularly to the places at the top of the list who are more or less guaranteed a place.
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That's the problem with our local rooling putty - a lot of deployment of those who were' heros of the struggle' and we end up with a bunch of incompetents in cabinet.
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>> That's the problem with our local rooling putty - a lot of deployment of those
>> who were' heros of the struggle' and we end up with a bunch of incompetents
>> in cabinet.
The Irony is, most of the real heroes of the struggle are now dead. Its rather like Mugabe's "war veterans" none of who were born when there was the war.
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Interesting comment from Farage just now. He claims UKIP attracted quite a few votes from the under thirties, which if true shows a level of increased future support.
Miliband and Balls were never a good choice for Labour, both seen as incompetent joke figures by too many people.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 8 May 15 at 10:37
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>>which if true shows a level of increased future support.
I doubt it, I think their day has been and gone.
It would be no bad thing if they did hang around for a couple of reasons;
Firstly, they keep raising issues in the Daily Mail which force the larger parties to pay attention to certain matters.
Secondly, not unlike the police allowing one troublesome pub, at least one always knows where most of the trouble-making nutters are likely to be.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 8 May 15 at 12:43
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Good lord, they have all fallen
Farage, Milliband, Clegg - all resigned. Not sure there has ever been an election with such a political fallout.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 8 May 15 at 12:43
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It's the most exciting erection I've experienced in a long time. Farage is just taking a well-deserved holiday and will most likely be back at the helm before too long, I'll wager.
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We're all entitled to a break but I fully expect Mr Farage to now focus on his elected role in the European Parliament, working for our country's best interests within the EU.
Back to the grindstone Mr F please, maybe you can up your game a bit.
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>> We're all entitled to a break but I fully expect Mr Farage to now focus
>> on his elected role in the European Parliament, working for our country's best interests within
>> the EU.
>>
>> Back to the grindstone Mr F please, maybe you can up your game a bit.
>>
His role in the EU is to work for our exit!
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>>Back to the grindstone Mr F please
Oh, I think that's one of the few rocks one can't throw at Farage. Strikes me he works pretty hard.
I think we need to remember that his party attracted some awful types, but there was much merit in parts of his manifesto and approach. And seems to me the bloke has worked like a [whatever people work hard like].
If he could have done it with out attracting the half-wits out of proportion he may well have done better in the election.
And, largely because of UKIP, immigration and Europe and a few other issues are now right out there on the table. They had been building to an entire flock of elephants in the room but at least they are now being discussed.
And as someone said yesterday, they've pretty well caused the destruction of the BNP.
If I was Farage, I'd probably be feeling quite good about myself. Or at least I would be in a few days when its all died down a bit. 4 million people agree with him. As far as I can tell UKIP = Farage, they don't seem to have thought of anything he didn't come up with.
I think I said a long time ago, UKIP could provide a valuable function of keeping the other parties looking at difficult issues. They've done that, and long may they continue doing it.
And I guess that as long as they attract the nutters, then that lessens the chance of a nutter getting into a position of power.
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>> >>Back to the grindstone Mr F please
>>
>> Oh, I think that's one of the few rocks one can't throw at Farage. Strikes
>> me he works pretty hard.
Indeed he certainly did. Probably what made him such an irascible grumpy sod and appear to be utterly unpleasant.
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>> Indeed he certainly did. Probably what made him such an irascible grumpy sod and appear
>> to be utterly unpleasant.
>>
Surely that would resonate with those of a similar disposition?
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Local results are looking pretty handy, Aker didnt win Thurrock but a nice handful of UKIP councillors elected, similar in Boston.
My results are not counted until tomorrow so I am having a quite, normal day. Actually looking forward to going to work.
Word on the ground here from friendly Tories is that some of their councillor colleagues expecting to lose their seats but cant predict who. Time will tell.
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Thinking forward two years.
The EU referendum happens. Cameron campaigns to stay in. Labour campaign to stay in. A few Conservative politicians (100 tops), as do UKIP.
The Ins win.
Where is UKIP's future after that? They are then like the dodo. Stuffed.
Last edited by: madf on Fri 8 May 15 at 14:12
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As long as there's a referendum in-out I'll be satisfied.
Yes, I did vote UKIP.
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>> As long as there's a referendum in-out I'll be satisfied.
>>
>> Yes, I did vote UKIP.
>>
Thank you, from a Kipper!
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>> As long as there's a referendum in-out I'll be satisfied.
How nice. Will you still be satisfied when Britain stays in whatever you and the rest of the hoi polloi vote for? Because that's what will happen unless the serious politicos have all gone mad.
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>> Where is UKIP's future after that? They are then like the dodo. Stuffed.
>>
Same as the SNP's after the referendum in Scotland.
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"Not sure there has ever been an election with such a political fallout."
Indeed.
Vince Cable, Danny Alexander, Douglas Alexander, Jim Murphy, George Galloway, Simon Hughes, Charles Kennedy all lost their seats. Those are the names that had some air of familiarity - there are others, of course.
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Intrigued to know who "Observer" is who joined a motoring forum 2 days ago to talk politics.....
anyway, at the last Scottish election I seem to remember the Lib Dem, Labour and Tory leaders all resigned the morning after also!
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>> Intrigued to know who "Observer" is who joined a motoring forum 2 days ago to
>> talk politics.....
>>
me too, not that he/she isn't welcome, it's a fairly aware political place, if all you want to talk about is politics there shouldn't be any problem with that.
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There were a couple of houses in my street sporting Labour branding for the last week or so. It had all dissapeared by 9am when I went out.
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>> There were a couple of houses in my street sporting Labour branding for the last week or so. It had all dissapeared by 9am when I went out.
Might that not be because the election had taken place and political posters were thought unnecessary until next time?
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>> >> There were a couple of houses in my street sporting Labour branding for the
>> last week or so. It had all dissapeared by 9am when I went out.
>>
>> Might that not be because the election had taken place and political posters were thought
>> unnecessary until next time?
>>
Had they won anything they would have been there for weeks.
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>> >> There were a couple of houses in my street sporting Labour branding for the
>> last week or so. It had all dissapeared by 9am when I went out.
>>
>> Might that not be because the election had taken place and political posters were thought
>> unnecessary until next time?
>>
>>
>>
My UKIP board-on-a-post and our window posters were gone by 0630 on Friday morning.
Game over.
(Out in PJs and dressing gown with my electric screwdriver, to take down the very securely plugged and screwed to the wall, post bearing the Correx board!)
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"Intrigued to know who "Observer" is who joined a motoring forum 2 days ago to talk politics....."
Been lurking and reading and eventually got sufficiently fed up with some of the stuff I was reading.
Last edited by: Observer on Fri 8 May 15 at 15:15
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>>Been lurking and reading and eventually got sufficiently fed up with some of the stuff I was reading.
Ha ha I think that's what gets us all started at some point :)
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The transition from Observer to contributor is reasonably painless, I hope you enjoy the banter.
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>>Been lurking and reading
You've been watching the place and you *still* decided to join in?
>>got sufficiently fed up with some of the stuff I was reading.
In my experience that takes about 3 1/2 minutes.
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"You've been watching the place and you *still* decided to join in?
>>got sufficiently fed up with some of the stuff I was reading.
In my experience that takes about 3 1/2 minutes."
Thanks for the welcome.
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>> What welcome?
Two or three posts saying 'welcome' constitute a welcome surely FMR?
Perhaps 'Sunday Times' would seem a better handle to some people, hmmm?
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Find the "welcome" in the text he quoted, AC.
I presume that there was some reason for quoting that particular text, but I couldn't see the welcome, so I couldn't work out what the reason was.
I am never very good at differentiating between irony, sarcasm and misunderstanding.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 9 May 15 at 00:43
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>> I presume that there was some reason for quoting that particular text, but I couldn't see the welcome, so I couldn't work out what the reason was.
What text? What are you saying FMR? Very obscure post.
I'm almost envious.
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Peering through the bottom of a vodka glass AC? Me too.
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>> I am never very good at differentiating between irony, sarcasm and misunderstanding.
NO! surely not!
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What welcome?"
No FM2R is a v. intelligent guy.
Last edited by: Observer on Sat 9 May 15 at 09:37
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>> What welcome?"
>>
>> No FM2R is a v. intelligent guy.
Never be nice to NoFM2R
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQ6zZ5aID4
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>> Never be nice to NoFM2R
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQ6zZ5aID4
"This video contains content from SME, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. "
So I shall never know.
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There's an interesting graphic on the Telegraph website illustrating the number of votes cast per seat.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11593854/Votes-Per-Seat-for-each-party.html
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Covering a decent amount of the Thanet South parliamentary constituency, where Nigel Farage failed to win, Thanet District Council now has an absolute UKIP majority!
(Figures from the Council website, excluding "others" by name & the % of the vote.
Results.
Election results by Party name. Seats won.
UKIP 32
Conservative Party Candidate 16
The Labour Party Candidate 2
Labour Party 2
Others 0
Interesting, eh?
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"Interesting, eh?"
The Beeb website has it here www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32672010
My interpretation is that many people had great sympathy with what UKIP were saying, but were too frit to put their cross by UKIP in the GE in case it let in Labour/SNP.
My prediction is that Nigel will lie down and take a nap, wake up refreshed and re-join the fray.
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Like most politicians when he said he would resign if he failed to gain the seat he didn't quite tell the whole story. He Has every intention of standing again for party leader. He needs the adulation.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 9 May 15 at 17:36
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I sincerely hope Farage does come back, better still if Milliband could too. Jointly, they contributed significantly to ensuring the Conservative victory.
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>> better still if Milliband could too. they
>> contributed significantly to ensuring the Conservative victory.
>>
Would have been a different kettle of fish if the unions hadn't engineered Ed instead of David.
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Seems like Labour like Burnham as Leader. I hope they do elect him.. Another Geek and an incompetent one as well..
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God what a bunch of mean-spirited s***s you Tories and Kippers are. Perhaps not always in the flesh, but invariably on paper. Yuck!
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Thought he was a bit more normal and personable? Might be thinking of the wrong bloke though.
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I think they will go for a female leader, not HH as she is tainted, but Yvette Cooper
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Well Roger Baker has registered www.yvetteforleader.co.uk * .com
I think she is pretty awful, so I am quite happy if Labour to elect her.
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>> Well Roger Baker
Who's he?
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>> Seems like Labour like Burnham as Leader. I hope they do elect him.. Another Geek
>> and an incompetent one as well..
The most convincing candidate with 'history' is Alan Johnson but he's ruled himself out on grounds of appetite and age (he's 64).
Runners so far seem to be Burnham, Chukka Ummunah, Mrs Balls, Liz Kendall and Dan Jarvis. I had to look the last two up.
Miliband, D has also been mentioned but as he's not an MP he can probably be discounted. Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to try to get either him or Balls back via a by-election (see the Gordon-Walker farago I mentioned earlier). I also think David is only a tad less geeky than Ed - remember the banana picture?
If he'd been leader defeat might have been similar and they'd still have been saying 'wrong brother'.
I'd go off piste and suggest Keir Starmer, the former DPP who's replaced Frank Field as MP for Holborn/St Pancras. But he's too new to Parliament.
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>>Runners so far seem to be Burnham, Chukka Ummunah, Mrs Balls, Liz Kendall and Dan Jarvis. I had to look the last two up.
Keep up :-)
Plus maybe Lammy.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/32671418
Eagle is said to be interested.
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/angela-eagle-labour-leadership-bid-9223016
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>>Runners so far seem to be Burnham, Chukka Ummunah, Mrs Balls, Liz Kendall and Dan Jarvis. I had to look the last two up.
I cannot keep up either :-)
Some more names
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32654262
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Dan Jarvis seems to be old fashioned Labour, working class, educated and erudite...so I guess he won't get a look in
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I suspect that the Unions will prefer Burnham. Which will be a decision about as smart as choosing the wrong brother.
Chuka Umunna is smart, but I think they'll worry about his appeal to their rank and file.
Liz Kendall is female which might be a bit trendy for them, has not much experience, is right of their normal position and largely uninspiring - so I doubt they'll choose her.
Not sure about Sir Keir Starmer.
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>> Would have been a different kettle of fish if the unions hadn't engineered Ed instead
>> of David.
The press and the Tories would like you to think that as it's a stick with which to beat the unions. In reality he was little if any less geeky than his bro and had form for twice bottling a challenge to Gordon Brown.
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>> The press and the Tories would like you to think that as it's a stick
>> with which to beat the unions. In reality he was little if any less geeky
>> than his bro and had form for twice bottling a challenge to Gordon Brown.
>>
I'd agree I think it's a rose tinted specs, people are pretending he is some sort of election wiz. Mind you the union bosses who voted for Ed should beating themselves with a big stick, how they thought he could get elected as PM* god knows.
* Yes, yes I know zzzz...
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Chuka Umunna is very personable, and David Lammy whom I have met is too.
But we are a racist bunch. There's an anti-Semitic undercurrent to a lot of this anti-Miliband stuff.
I find Yvette Cooper very annoying. But perhaps sexism is as bad as racism... Herself often accuses me of it.
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>> I find Yvette Cooper very annoying.
She must get that from her old man, a good pair.
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Long day at the count but I got 17% which was above our GE result for the constituency so I am happy enough with that. One colleague came within 70 votes of winning, some very worried Tories there for a while.
I wouldnt be suprised if Farage came back, I havent yet met a member yet who doesnt want him back, albeit after an extended break which is well deserved.
Now 18 months until we start it all again...
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>>There's an anti-Semitic undercurrent to a lot of this anti-Miliband stuff.
Can you substantiate that ?
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>>There's an anti-Semitic undercurrent to a lot of this anti-Miliband stuff.
.**********
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>> .**********
Which loosely translates to "I do not believe that to be a valid, worthwhile or accurate opinion".
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 9 May 15 at 21:17
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>> Which loosely translates to "I do not believe that to be a valid, worthwhile or
>> accurate opinion".
I've no proof either way but I wish AC's assertion were as implausible as some of you seem to think.
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Well I'm sure there's someone somewhere that thinks like that. But any number above tiny, not that I'd say. Incapable is his issue, not religion. I think if you look long enough and hard enough you'll find anything.
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So you think that current anti Milliband sentiment is driven by anti-semitism?
Dear God, a conspiracy under every rock.
Personally I think its because he was once seen riding a cycle and its all part of a campaign to prevent cyclists getting on in life. Boris is next.
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>> So you think that current anti Milliband sentiment is driven by anti-semitism?
Driven by is an overstatement but I say again that I wish I was certain it was not an element.
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>> I've no proof either way but I wish AC's assertion were as implausible as some
>> of you seem to think.
On here there has not been even a sniff of it by anyone.
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>>On here there has not been even a sniff of it by anyone.
And I've neither seen nor heard a sniff of it anywhere throughout the entire campaign.
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>> On here there has not been even a sniff of it by anyone.
That's the British way. No explicit stuff about jew boys just Dog whistles.
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Aha! Absolute proof! There's no sign of it so it must be true.
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>> Aha! Absolute proof! There's no sign of it so it must be true.
That's the point. It's done without leaving obvious fingerprints.
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I think you're a facist, right wing plant trying to undermine the left wing politicians. I also think you sabotaged Amelia Earhart's plane and set fire to the Hindenburg.
Since there is no evidence, no suggestion and no likelihood, then it is clearly true.
I am now revisiting your comments on cyclists in London, helmets on bicycle riders, and the judicial system having decided your credibility and realism need reassessment.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 9 May 15 at 23:04
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>> I think you're a facist, right wing plant trying to undermine the left wing politicians.
>> I also think you sabotaged Amelia Earhart's plane and set fire to the Hindenburg.
You forgot flight MH370
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Amelia Earhart's plane crashed into it.
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>> Amelia Earhart's plane crashed into it.
Before or after it hit the Hindenburg?
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>>There's no sign of it so it must be true.
Brilliant.!
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>> >> On here there has not been even a sniff of it by anyone.
>>
>> That's the British way. No explicit stuff about jew boys just Dog whistles.
Where is the crap coming from? its completely unfounded and unjustified.
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>> .**********
You're entitled to your opinion FMR. Perhaps you don't know what 'undercurrent' means.
Come on. Let's see some more asterisks mofo.
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It's true there's been nothing explicit here or anywhere else. But there's been a lot of snide comment not really connected with left-right politics.
I too am entitled to my opinion. And there's a huge amount of furious denial upthread.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 10 May 15 at 00:31
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I've heard/seen more reference to his teeth than anything religious. I think you are wrong. I wouldn't mind betting that 80% or more of the electorate either weren't aware or don't care what religion he is.
However, interestingly the first Google result on Jewish Miliband is from the Spectator 18 April (yes April) this year and is entitled "How Ed Miliband lost the Jewish vote". Mind you, the last census only had 263,346 Jews in England and Wales so even assuming he had 100% of those and lost the lot that doesn't account for the result.
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>> I've heard/seen more reference to his teeth than anything religious. I think you are wrong.
>> I wouldn't mind betting that 80% or more of the electorate either weren't aware or
>> don't care what religion he is.
Ah... now I get it. Yep, I am was one of the 80%.
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>> It's true there's been nothing explicit here or anywhere else. But there's been a lot
>> of snide comment not really connected with left-right politics.
>>
>> I too am entitled to my opinion. And there's a huge amount of furious denial
>> upthread.
>>
Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
You are wrong .. just like you are on politics.
People who see discrimination when it's not there are just so out of touch with reality and are part of teh problem with the Left in UK politics.
After all, the Left stand for equality, non discrimination and treating everyone with respect. Then call the Tories "evil" and "scum"..
You could not make it up.. but it's true.
Bunch of whingeing hypocrites...:-)
(revenge is a dish etc: not really.. just could not resist the dig! Sorry)
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Fox in the henrun? Cat among the pigeons? Anyway there's an impressive clamour of clucking and squawking. So perhaps I'm utterly wrong; but I still don't think so, because the assertions of Ed Miliband's 'geekiness' and alleged hopelessness as a potential PM seemed to me excessive and gratuitous.
It isn't very left wing to vote Labour. Indeed I have often commented here on the reactionary side of Labour and the working class or classes. I have never suggested that Tories or Ukippers are scum or evil. If people want to have a go at me about politics, the least they can do is get it right. Start by reviewing, if you can bear it, my few comments on the general election the other day.
I don't think Ed Miliband has a religion. I would lay money on his being an atheist from childhood.
There may be whingeing hypocrites here but I'm not one of them. Look in the mirror comrades, and up yours.
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>>the assertions of Ed Miliband's 'geekiness' and alleged hopelessness as a potential PM seemed to me excessive and gratuitous.
Wallace and Gromit anyone?
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=5&t=19697
:}
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>> It's true there's been nothing explicit here or anywhere else. But there's been a lot
>> of snide comment not really connected with left-right politics.
Which is exactly what I meant.
>> I too am entitled to my opinion. And there's a huge amount of furious denial
>> upthread.
Agreed.
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>> It's true there's been nothing explicit here or anywhere else. But there's been a lot
>> of snide comment not really connected with left-right politics.
So why would snide comment necessarily be anti-Semitic? ...could it not just be that people are fairly unimpressed with him as a politician?...... I am.
Ed has stated he isn't religious, he doesn't actively follow the Jewish faith and a fair chunk of the Jewish community don't support him. He does though have considerable Jewish roots.
tinyurl.com/l34of83
>>
>> I too am entitled to my opinion. And there's a huge amount of furious denial
>> upthread.
>>
I agree about your own opinion, but think you are hopelessly off the ball on this one...as is Bromptonaut.
I find it very irritating that if you criticise someone who is say: female, black, gay, religious, etc ... that part of some people's response is automatically that you are then: sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.
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>> I find it very irritating that if you criticise someone who is say: female, black, gay, religious, etc ... that part of some people's response is automatically that you are then: sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.
So does any rational person. Why do people fantasize about one's opinions instead of reading what one actually says?
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This debate is pointless. Lefties are never wrong, can do no wrong and are in denial.
That's why they lost two elections in a row.
Until they face up to the irrelevance of most of what they are saying and stop being hypocrites about others whilst tolerating racism### from their own, they will get nowhere.
###
Ms Abbott and her commentSSSS about whites.
Segregated political meetings.
White Van Man comments..
If they practised what they preached all those involved would be disciplined or expelled. Instead Abbott is a Shadow Minister.
The mark of real justice is practising what you preach.
Accusing us of covert antisemitism with no evidence whilst Labour tolerates behaviour which neither UKIP (!!) nor the Tories would tolerate is the sign of a party and supporters who have zero credibility..
After all, which Party has had both a Jewish PM and a Woman PM? And Labour have had neither.
EDIT: And a gay PM as well..even if not openly..
Physician heal thyslf.
I will say no more on the issue.
Last edited by: madf on Sun 10 May 15 at 10:08
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I find it quite embarrassingly pathetic to watch the Labour supporters squirming around trying to find obscure "unfair" reasons why they were so comprehensively beaten.
The bottom line is that their party, it's dreadful track record and its weak leadership made it unelectable on this occasion.
It's supporters need to accept that defeat with good grace, decide whether there's anything worth rebuilding and work towards that if they so choose. A strong, credible opposition is a very healthy foil to any government and as things stand there just isn't one.
Might be wise to put the conspiracy theories to bed and work a bit harder on the political ones.
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>> Might be wise to put the conspiracy theories to bed and work a bit harder
>> on the political ones.
>>
No, please don't. I do love a good conspiracy theory.
Come to think of it, I also enjoy a poor conspiracy theory.
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>>Might be wise to put the conspiracy theories to bed and work a bit harder on the political ones.
>>
When the boundary changes are implemented Labour will have an even bigger challenge.
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> When the boundary changes are implemented Labour will have an even bigger challenge.
>>
I don't think the boundaries committee reports until 2018. Who knows what they'll say?
Mods isn't it time for the next volume ?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 10 May 15 at 11:42
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Ok, hands up, I dont like Ed Miliband, but I will also say why.
It certainly has nothing to do with him personally, although I consider him at best an average politician and a terrible leader. No, what I dislike strongly is the kind of professionalised, beige, tactical politics that isnt rooted in a set of principles, apart from the acquisition of power.
Ive met Tories like this too and they are equally objectionable, so it isnt an anti-Labour thing although Blair is undoubtedly the model many now follow.
I hate, with passion, people who fake who or what they are. Ed Miliband doesnt have the first clue about working class people, he doesnt care to either, his only goal is to determine what he has to say to get them to fall in line. Even now I couldnt really tell you what he really believes in and from what Labour voters told me, nor could they.
Last edited by: Stuu on Sun 10 May 15 at 12:20
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>> Might be wise to put the conspiracy theories to bed and work a bit harder
>> on the political ones.
I'm not suggesting a conspiracy or that anti semitism played a large or indeed any part in EM's downfall. I don't think AC is either.
The question is whether it was there. If it was then what does that say about our society?
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Ed Milliband is on record as saying he is an atheist
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>> Ed Milliband is on record as saying he is an atheist
That is so but it doesn't disprove the existence of dog whistling about his background.
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"That is so but it doesn't disprove the existence of dog whistling about his background."
Come off it, Brompto, everyone else knows that Millibean wasn't elected because he's a bit of a twit. Hell - yes he is!
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>> Come off it, Brompto, everyone else knows that Millibean wasn't elected because he's a bit
>> of a twit. Hell - yes he is!
Neither AC nor I are saying that he'd have been elected but for the ant-Semitic stuff but we think it was there in some coverage.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 10 May 15 at 09:44
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but we think it was there in some coverage.
>>
What coverage specifically are you thinking of?
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>> What coverage specifically are you thinking of?
The sort of article that will have appeared in the Mail, Express and possibly in AC's 'comic'.
The whole point is that it's not overt, just something that rings a bell with the anti-semites. Even if I were presenting examples to a audience that had shown itself to be open minded I've not got the time to trawl back through six weeks of coverage. And I'm certainly not doing it for you lot as, given the clucking at even a hint of such a thing, there's no point.
Two of us here think we've seen it. The rest of you (who'll comment) deny it. I wonder what Maserati Man/Happy Blue thinks?
If anyone else has the patience a starting point might be the coverage of Ralph Miliband's views on British society.
Or the bacon sandwich farago.
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The whole point is that it's not overt, just something that rings a bell with
>> the anti-semites.
Honestly i think your looking for something that's not even there. But your sure it's there, based on the idea that the red tops are trying to ring bells with anti semites ?
Even if I were presenting examples to a audience that had shown itself
>> to be open minded I've not got the , given the clucking
>> at even a hint of such a thing, there's no point.
Not really 'clucking' on my part. Just disbelief you and ac have plucked something out of thin air based on something so subtle no one can point to it. Any other issue and im pretty sure you'd be asking for facts and evidence too.
I wonder what Maserati Man/Happy Blue thinks?
>>
Who are they?
>> Or the bacon sandwich farago.
Let me guess, that was to do with anti jewish stuff as well?
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>> Or the bacon sandwich farago.
Even the bacon sandwich was not seen as anti Semitic, universally seen as a bloke who has no idea of the world of his target constituents live in, making a complete hash of trying to appear one of them.
The anti semtic rubbish is cooked up by you to try and hid the fact that the unions - don't try and deny it again or i will be forced to throw the 4 rounds of the fraudulent ballots results at you - foisted upon the party a damp pathetic unelectable patsy that you have spent the last 4 years defending. Badly as it happens.
As excuses go - its a s***** one.
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>> Neither AC nor I are saying that he'd have been elected but for the ant-Semitic
>> stuff but we think it was there in some coverage.
Examples.
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>> Examples.
>>
The stuff's like dog scheisse on the pavement. You see it, step over it and think yuk. But it's to commonplace to recall exactly where.
See previous post in reply to Sooty for a couple of possible starting points.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 10 May 15 at 10:12
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>>Ed Milliband is on record as saying he is an atheist
Jewish atheist actually.
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UKIP Debate - Volume 22 - Stuu
