Non-motoring > wifi on planes	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: CGNorwich	Replies: 42

New Tue 24 Mar 15 17:54   wifi on planes - CGNorwich

Recently flew with Norwegian and was pleasantly surprised to find that you get free high speed internet connection on the flight. Really worked very well and helped while away the boredom sending those "I'm at 35000 feet" emails with a picture of the seat in front attached. I guess all airlines will be following suit. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 18:25   wifi on planes - sooty123

Quite a few already have it I believe not used it myself. Anything to pass the time whilst flying is a good thing. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 18:32   wifi on planes - CGNorwich

First time I have come across it but I only tend to use cheapo airlines :-) Norwegian are certainly an impressive outfit. Very aggressive pricing - £140 return to La Palma and nice new planes. I flew on a Boeing 737 800. They are certainly going to give the likes of Easyjet and Ryanir a bit of competition. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 18:40   wifi on planes - sooty123

Never flown on them, everytime I've been on a Scandinavia airline it's been SAS. They were very good, however I'll keep an eye out Norwegian. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 18:45   wifi on planes - Runfer D'Hills

Thin end of the wedge on the other hand. Aeroplanes were one of the few remaining places you couldn't be contacted. Another lost kip opportunity ! Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:18   wifi on planes - Kevin

>Another lost kip opportunity ! Use the ON/OFF button Humph. Other passenger's 'You've got mail' ringtones will still disturb your kip though. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:10   wifi on planes - CGNorwich

Norwegian are a low cost operation big in Skandinavia and now trying to muscle in on the UK market. Worth checking for a bargain. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:16   wifi on planes - sooty123

Tbh most of my flying isn't chosen by me, so it'll be what ever is cheapest. I don't have a choice of airline. Another good airline I was on recently was Turkish Airlines. Their main hub is below par, but they are very good onboard. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:32   wifi on planes - Zero

>> Norwegian are a low cost operation big in Skandinavia and now trying to muscle in >> on the UK market. Worth checking for a bargain. Flying to Alicante in June, they are dearer than Monarch,cheaper than SleazyJet Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:34   wifi on planes - CGNorwich

For seat room alone I would choose Norwegian over Monarch Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:38   wifi on planes - Runfer D'Hills

Do the cabin crew wear big thick oiled jumpers? I feel they should. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:51   wifi on planes - CGNorwich

>> Do the cabin crew wear big thick oiled jumpers? I feel they should. >> The only downside is these jumpers are compulsory. www.shopatnorway.com/shop/products.asp?lang=44&pid=7194 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:56   wifi on planes - Runfer D'Hills

What's that guy doing with the tin of boiled sweets? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:12   wifi on planes - Kevin

Emirates A380s and their newer/refitted 777s have had wifi, usb and 120/230v charging points in each seat for quite a while now. Which just goes to show that those in the MH370 thread who claimed that constant transmission of FDR and CVR data was either technically impossible or too expensive were behind the times. There is now no excuse not to make it mandatory for all new aircraft and those undergoing a refit. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:41   wifi on planes - Bromptonaut

>> There is now no excuse not to make it mandatory for all new aircraft and >> those undergoing a refit. Still think you're going to get a lot of 'all indications normal' hay and bandwidth in which needles get lost or disappear altogether as soon as unusual attitudes disrupt the signal to satellite. In today's tragedy the FDR and/or CDR have already been found as is case in vast majority of accidents. If of course the politicos demand it then it will happen whatever the cost benefit. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:54   wifi on planes - Kevin

>..needles get lost or disappear altogether as soon as unusual attitudes disrupt the signal to satellite. Stop grasping at straws Bromp. The technology for constant monitoring exists and it's cheap. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:49   wifi on planes - No FM2R

>>There is now no excuse not to make it mandatory for all new aircraft and those undergoing a refit. If you make it mandatory then it must 100% work 100% of the time. It must have acceptable redundancy and will need to be part of the servicing and traceability of the aircraft and its parts. I'm sure its not impossible, but that's quite different from a passenger entertainment system which works mostly. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 24 Mar 15 19:55   wifi on planes - Bromptonaut

>> I'm sure its not impossible, but that's quite different from a passenger entertainment system which >> works mostly. > Exactly!! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 20:08   wifi on planes - Kevin

BS. You can never guarantee that something will work 100% all of the time but you can make failure less likely by triple redundancy and other methods. Finding excuses not to use a cheap and easy method of improving the current situation is plain stupid. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 20:13   wifi on planes - No FM2R

Cheap and easy? Silly boy, Pike. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 25 Mar 15 22:00   wifi on planes - Kevin

>Cheap and easy? Silly boy, Pike. I'll take that as a compliment from someone trying to be Captain Mainwaring. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 24 Mar 15 20:13   wifi on planes - Zero

>> BS. >> >> You can never guarantee that something will work 100% all of the time but you >> can make failure less likely by triple redundancy and other methods. >> >> Finding excuses not to use a cheap and easy method of improving the current situation >> is plain stupid. It wouldn't have aided the current crash investigation in any way, so what situation are we trying to improve? Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 25 Mar 15 22:07   wifi on planes - Kevin

>It wouldn't have aided the current crash investigation in any way, so what situation are we trying to improve? I never referred to the current incident. The situation we are trying to improve is the reliance on finding the FDR and trusting to luck that it is still intact after an aircraft loss. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 22:22   wifi on planes - Zero

>> The situation we are trying to improve is the reliance on finding the FDR and >> trusting to luck that it is still intact after an aircraft loss. There have been very few failures to find them and very few failures to retrieve the data within. Let me run a scenario past you. Where do you think the data should be transmitted to and securely held. Do we rely on the carrier to receive and hold it? Now think about a Russian plane crashing in the centre of London. Do you think the the UK AAIB is going to get the data from Moscow? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 23:19   wifi on planes - Kevin

>There have been very few failures to find them and very few failures to retrieve the data within. Is that a valid reason not to improve what is currently in use? I'm not suggesting that it replaces the FDR and CVR but supplements them. The tech involved is Raspberry Pi level. >..Do you think the the UK AAIB is going to get the data from Moscow? Speculative political problem. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 23:24   wifi on planes - Zero

>> Speculative political problem. No merely a graphic and simple example of the complexity of chain and control of evidential data Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 23:36   wifi on planes - Kevin

>No merely a graphic and simple example of the complexity of chain and control of evidential data. There is no reason why data cannot be transmitted back to the aircraft manufacturer. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Thu 26 Mar 15 07:02   wifi on planes - Zero

>> >No merely a graphic and simple example of the complexity of chain and control of >> evidential data. >> >> There is no reason why data cannot be transmitted back to the aircraft manufacturer. Some may say, possibly not the most unbiased of parties. Seriously Kevin, you are are on a crusade without a cause. The system as it stands has proven to work remarkably well, adhering as it does to the KISS principal. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 26 Mar 15 10:06   wifi on planes - Bromptonaut

>> >No merely a graphic and simple example of the complexity of chain and control of >> evidential data. >> >> There is no reason why data cannot be transmitted back to the aircraft manufacturer. Manufacturers are not permanent. Fokker for one and Lockheed's civil business are just two examples. Not just a western issue either; fly a commuter route today and the plane was likely built by Embraer in Brazil. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 26 Mar 15 10:30   wifi on planes - Zero

>> Manufacturers are not permanent. Fokker for one and Lockheed's civil business are just two examples. >> Not just a western issue either; fly a commuter route today and the plane was >> likely built by Embraer in Brazil. Shortly to be joined by Comac - Chinese state aircraft maker. After their "shovelling the evidence into a big hole - bodies as well" high speed train crash, would you trust them with evidential safety data? Not me sunshine. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 26 Mar 15 10:38   wifi on planes - commerdriver

>> There is no reason why data cannot be transmitted back to the aircraft manufacturer. >> Huge cost and very limited benefit is the basic reason. someone else can look up the statistics how many flights worldwide per day, how much data per flight (detailed telemetry?, CVR data as well?) how long does it need to be kept. If the airlines / manufacturers have to keep, index and process records & store it for how long, who pays the internet providers worldwide for the extra capacity required. Eventually how much extra are you prepared to pay for your flights so that if one crashes in the sea you can find out why. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Thu 26 Mar 15 10:52   wifi on planes - Bromptonaut

Anybody who listens in on ATC will tell you the existing CPDLC data links, used for flight plan clearances etc, is way under 100% reliable. Aircraft using it on oceanic services are still required to back it up with voice over mushy HF frequencies. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 20:17   wifi on planes - Bromptonaut

>> Finding excuses not to use a cheap and easy method of improving the current situation >> is plain stupid. If it was both cheap and easy then surely airlines would use it already for maintenance and crew performance monitoring rather than faffing on ground with quick access recorders? Seriously, what value would it add to investigation of this crash where boxes are already in custody of BEA? I can see issue with MH370 but that's a hugely significant outlier in jet age hull losses. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 24 Mar 15 20:23   wifi on planes - sooty123

'triple redundancy and other methods.' 'to use a cheap and easy method' Two interesting terms, neither of which go together. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 25 Mar 15 11:06   wifi on planes - helicopter

Norwegian are the airline used by Thomson holidays. I have booked our next trip to Crete with them as Monarch who we have used for many years no longer fly to Chania. Norwegian were voted No 1 budget airline in Europe last year,second were easyjet and then germanwings in third. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 22:10   wifi on planes - Kevin

>'triple redundancy and other methods.' >'to use a cheap and easy method' >Two interesting terms, neither of which go together. Only if you don't have a clue about how HA systems operate. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 22:28   wifi on planes - Zero

>> Only if you don't have a clue about how HA systems operate. Don't tell that to the customers we billed huge amounts of money to implement HA. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 23:04   wifi on planes - sooty123

>> >'triple redundancy and other methods.' >> >> >'to use a cheap and easy method' >> >> >Two interesting terms, neither of which go together. >> >> Only if you don't have a clue about how HA systems operate. >> I vaguely remember a similar thread, weren't you the one with a bee in your bonnet about this all for some sort of super cheap price? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 23:32   wifi on planes - Kevin

>I vaguely remember a similar thread, weren't you the one with a bee in your bonnet about this all >for some sort of super cheap price? The price has just come down. High speed internet connection is now free on some airlines. Would you like to discuss why your earlier 'Two interesting terms, neither of which go together.' is junk? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 25 Mar 15 23:41   wifi on planes - rtj70

Calm down you lot. Kevin in particular seems wound up IMO. Life's too short. See Pat's latest post and the aircraft crash thread too. I'm sure something better than flight voice and data recorders is long overdue and perhaps being looked at at the right level. Few of us on here qualified to suggest the best new solution. Well that's my guess. Working for an IT company (or having worked for one) might give better insight etc. And this discussion on complementary systems to voice and data recorders could be in a different thread. P.S. And stop commenting in public on HA implementation limitations. Not good for the industry. Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 25 Mar 15 at 23:43 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 26 Mar 15 00:00   wifi on planes - Kevin

Replying to multiple responses in quick succession isn't 'wound up' rtj, it's called 'too busy working to do it during the day'. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 26 Mar 15 00:04   wifi on planes - rtj70

I was commenting on the content/tone of the responses. Maybe work is stressing you more than it did when employed with your original employer. I gather you must be busy because you don't post as much as you did. So the sale is keeping you busy which I guess is good. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 26 Mar 15 05:36   wifi on planes - sooty123

>> >> Would you like to discuss why your earlier 'Two interesting terms, neither of which go >> together.' is junk? I thought it was you. No little point, you've already got the idea in your head and won't be told. Let us know when you've sold this idea to the airline industry won't you. Reply to this message | Report message