Non-motoring > Operation Yewtree and others - Volume 26   [Read only]
Thread Author: VxFan	Replies: 102

Fri 13 Mar 15 13:32   Operation Yewtree and others - Volume 26 - VxFan

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 27 ***** ========================================================== More debate Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 10 Sep 15 at 10:15

Fri 13 Mar 15 13:33   Operation Yewtree and others - Volume 26 - VxFan

Ex-TV weatherman Fred Talbot has been jailed for five years for sex attacks on two boys while he was a teacher. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31874576

Fri 20 Mar 15 17:26   Parliamentary Committee - Limit to Police Bail - Bromptonaut

One blinding injustice in these cases was length of time some individuals were on Police Bail. The Home Affairs Committee has published a report calling for a limit and for pre-charge anonymity: www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/home-affairs-committee/news/150320-police-bail-rpt-pubn/ Both seem good recommendations provided a court can grant exceptions.

Fri 20 Mar 15 18:21   Parliamentary Committee - Limit to Police Bail - Robin O'Reliant

>>>> Both seem good recommendations provided a court can grant exceptions. >> Agreed. Even those who are subject to malicious complaints have to suffer the "No smoke without fire" stigma for a long time afterwards.

Thu 16 Apr 15 13:43   Greville Janner - No Charges - Bromptonaut

Lord Janner, formerly Leicester MP Greville Janner will not be charged with offences against young boys in spite of their being prima facie evidence sufficient to charge. DPP has decided it's not in public interest to proceed as Janner has advanced Alzheimers. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/16/lord-janner-no-trial-abuse-claims While I fully understand the reasoning that a man lacking memory or capacity to instruct lawyers cannot fairly face a court it's inevitably going to be seen as a let off for 'the establishment'.

Thu 16 Apr 15 14:40   Greville Janner - No Charges - Robin O'Reliant

I'll agree with the decision in this instance as you can hardly conduct a fair trial against someone who no longer knows what day of the week it is, but the real scandal is that the police were leant on to take no action when the allegations surfaced nearly 25 years ago.       2

Thu 16 Apr 15 15:02   Greville Janner - No Charges - Cliff Pope

I suppose it would be a bit like trying someone in his absence - not necessarily regarded as unjust.       2

Wed 22 Apr 15 19:28   Greville Janner - No Charges - Bromptonaut

A thoroughly clear explanation by Mr Rozenberg, doyenne of current legal correspondents www.theguardian.com/law/2015/apr/22/critics-of-lord-janner-decision-misunderstand-justice-system

Wed 22 Apr 15 20:42   Greville Janner - No Charges - smokie

The DPPs statement is persuasive reading too. www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/lord_janner/

Thu 23 Apr 15 08:46   Greville Janner - No Charges - Cliff Pope

>> A thoroughly clear explanation by Mr Rozenberg, doyenne of current legal correspondents >> That seems an excellent analysis and makes the difficulties and possibilities very clear. This bit: " the primary purpose of a criminal trial is not to “deliver justice” to alleged victims. It is not to “find out what happened”. That’s the role of a public inquiry. The purpose of a criminal trial is to test the evidence against a named defendant. " is very relevant these days. Everyone gets very worked up about delivering "justice to the victims", as if that was the most important point of the judicial system. It's refreshing to have Rozenberg's clear statement that that is not the point.       1

Thu 23 Apr 15 09:58   Greville Janner - No Charges - Robin O'Reliant

>> Everyone gets very worked up about delivering "justice to the >> victims", as if that was the most important point of the judicial system. It's refreshing >> to have Rozenberg's clear statement that that is not the point. >> Exactly.

Thu 23 Apr 15 17:59   Greville Janner - No Charges - Westpig

>> This bit: >> " the primary purpose of a criminal trial is not to “deliver justice” to >> alleged victims. It is not to “find out what happened”. Trouble is... a lot of people think it should be the case that a trial establishes 'what happened', so that a jury can make an informed decision...me included. The 'delivering justice' bit ought to be the judge afterwards, but nowadays often isn't (no fault of theirs).

Thu 23 Apr 15 13:55   Greville Janner - No Charges - Armel Coussine

>> Mr Rozenberg, doyenne of current legal correspondents I've resisted the temptation so far, but I can't any longer: unless Mr Rozenberg is a woman he is a doyen, not a doyenne. Sorry and so on. I was hoping an apprentice pedant would save me the trouble and exposure.

Thu 23 Apr 15 17:58   Greville Janner - No Charges - Bromptonaut

>> >> Mr Rozenberg, doyenne of current legal correspondents >> >> I've resisted the temptation so far, but I can't any longer: unless Mr Rozenberg is >> a woman he is a doyen, not a doyenne. Damn. Thought that mighyt be case after I posted but decided I'd wait for the duty pedant to kick in rather than researching the word for myself. His wife, Melanie Phillips, was once the doyenne of Social Affairs correspondents but is now so far off beam that even the Mail won't publish her. Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 23 Apr 15 at 21:25

Thu 23 Apr 15 18:14   Greville Janner - No Charges - Armel Coussine

>> His wife, Melanie Phillips, was once the doyenne of Social Affairs correspondents but is now so far off beam that even the Mail won't publish her. Makes a box of frogs seem measured and rational. (Duty Pedant) Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 23 Apr 15 at 18:15

Fri 24 Apr 15 11:22   Greville Janner - No Charges - Roger.

She's a very sensible lady :-)

Fri 24 Apr 15 09:59   Greville Janner - No Charges - Cliff Pope

>> >> Damn. Thought that might be case after I posted but decided I'd wait for the >> duty pedant to kick in rather than researching the word for myself. >> Missed it, but then wondered. There are some French nouns that stay femine regardless of the sex of the person refered to, but couldn't be bothered checking. Sa majeste le roi - His majesty the king - is an old chestnut, I think, majeste being a feminine noun so taking sa not son ?

Thu 23 Apr 15 19:02   Greville Janner - No Charges - Fursty Ferret

>> I suppose it would be a bit like trying someone in his absence - not >> necessarily regarded as unjust. >> Since Lord Janner argued for exactly this with regard to Nazi war criminals, I've no doubt he'd support his own trial. Interesting article in yesterday's Times concerning the fact he conducted a job interview in a shower with a prospective intern.

Fri 24 Apr 15 10:01   Greville Janner - No Charges - Cliff Pope

>> >> Interesting article in yesterday's Times concerning the fact he conducted a job interview in a >> shower with a prospective intern. >> Like Churchill holding cabinet meetings in the bath?

Fri 24 Apr 15 11:03   Greville Janner - No Charges - smokie

Must've been crowded, I wonder who got the taps end?

Wed 22 Apr 15 19:41   Greville Janner - No Charges - Zero

>> I'll agree with the decision in this instance as you can hardly conduct a fair >> trial against someone who no longer knows what day of the week it is, its fine as long as its real Alzheimers and not the Ernest Saunders strain of suddenly curable Alzheimers       1

Mon 29 Jun 15 11:35   Greville Janner - No Charges - smokie

They've changed their mind, "Lord Janner will face criminal proceedings relating to 22 allegations of historical sexual abuse against nine children. "A judge will now decide if Lord Janner is fit to stand trial. If not, he will face what is known as a "trial of the facts", where a court hears evidence from alleged victims and decides only if Lord Janner committed the physical acts of abuse. There will be no finding of guilt or conviction." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33310095. Starts on 7 August.

Mon 29 Jun 15 12:01   Greville Janner - No Charges - Old Navy

>> There will be no finding of guilt or conviction." >> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33310095. Starts on 7 August. >> So the establishment have still closed ranks to protect their own, with a sop to public opinion.

Mon 29 Jun 15 12:06   Greville Janner - No Charges - Bromptonaut

>> So the establishment have still closed ranks to protect their own, with a sop to >> public opinion. See Rosenberg link below. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 29 Jun 15 at 12:06

Mon 29 Jun 15 12:05   Greville Janner - No Charges - Bromptonaut

>> They've changed their mind, "Lord Janner will face criminal proceedings relating to 22 allegations of >> historical sexual abuse against nine children. And here's the Rosenberg take: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/29/lord-janner-cps-child-sex-offences I suspect we're going to see a considerable amount of public money spent to little real avail.

Mon 29 Jun 15 12:25   Greville Janner - No Charges - Old Navy

I stand by my 12:01 post. There will be much expensive legal navel gazing behind the closed ranks, with only the lawyers profiting.

Mon 29 Jun 15 12:30   Greville Janner - No Charges - Zero

>> There will be much expensive legal navel gazing behind the closed ranks, with only the >> lawyers profiting. And the Victims, this is only about getting some kind of stake in the ground so they can get their compo.       1

Mon 29 Jun 15 12:32   Greville Janner - No Charges - Bromptonaut

>> I stand by my 12:01 post. >> >> There will be much expensive legal navel gazing behind the closed ranks, with only the >> lawyers profiting. Because of this 'sop' to public opinion the lawyers will have to paid. There's certainly a case that says the establishment saved him earlier. But what's different now from any other person? There's no reasonable doubt about the Alzheimers and Alzheimers is a one way trip.

Mon 29 Jun 15 21:58   Greville Janner - No Charges - Robin O'Reliant

This article is one I fully agree with - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11706543/Lord-Janners-prosecution-has-nothing-to-do-with-justice.html We are getting into a state of mass hysteria over child abuse.

Mon 29 Jun 15 22:12   Greville Janner - No Charges - No FM2R

The entire UK is We are getting into a state of mass hysteria over child abuse.

Mon 29 Jun 15 22:31   Greville Janner - No Charges - Bromptonaut

>> This article is one I fully agree with - >> >> www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11706543/Lord-Janners-prosecution-has-nothing-to-do-with-justice.html In relation to Janner I come to the same conclusion but by a different route. >> We are getting into a state of mass hysteria over child abuse. Mass hysteria on the subject might well exist. I does not though disprove allegation by A that they were 'bummed' by B.

Mon 29 Jun 15 23:16   Greville Janner - No Charges - Slidingpillar

If someone was fit to plead, how on earth do they defend themselves? Britain is unique in Europe in that it has no Statute of Limitations for serious sexual crimes. This means that someone can be arrested, charged and convicted for a crime that they committed half a century ago, even though many witnesses may be dead, memories are faded and the only evidence is the word of the alleged victim – or more accurately, the accuser. The limitation periods for other countries for this type of offence vary and they are often on a ‘sliding scale’ to take account of the age of the alleged victim or have exclusion or inclusion clauses built in. The average limitation period across the EU is about 12 years from the date of the alleged offence with a maximum of 20 years if the alleged victim was under age at the time or if violence was supposedly involved. The point is though that Britain has no limitation period at all and this is seen by many to be totally unjust.It is also true that one very rarely hears about ‘historic’ violent crimes. From www.theopinionsite.org/should-britain-have-a-statute-of-limitations-on-sex-crimes/

Tue 30 Jun 15 00:30   Greville Janner - No Charges - Armel Coussine

Setting aside Janner's unpleasant record, I've been irritated often by the media referring to him as 'Lord Greville Janner'. 'Lord Janner' is correct. (Duty pedant)       1

Tue 30 Jun 15 02:02   Greville Janner - No Charges - Armel Coussine

>> Janner's unpleasant record Not as unpleasant, one has to admit, as the records of some other people who have been mentioned on this site (the horrible northern creep and the horrible Aussie). An alleged 'victim' interviewed at length on the box yesterday didn't seem to think he had been cruelly treated and didn't seem traumatized. But a couple of other witnesses would have made that more genuinely believable.

Tue 30 Jun 15 10:50   Greville Janner - No Charges - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> >> Mass hysteria on the subject might well exist. I does not though disprove allegation by >> A that they were 'bummed' by B. >> The allegations do not have to be disproved. They have to be proven.

Tue 30 Jun 15 10:55   Greville Janner - No Charges - Manatee

>> The allegations do not have to be disproved. They have to be proven. Things may be changing, dependent upon the alleged offence - goo.gl/vy6zMA (article in Indy by Julia Hartley Brewer criticising the DPP).

Fri 3 Jul 15 15:50   Max Clifford. AnNew case - henry k

Former celebrity publicist Max Clifford has been charged with an indecent assault allegedly committed in 1981, the Crown Prosecution Service has said. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33386914

Fri 3 Jul 15 16:55   Max Clifford. AnNew case - Robin O'Reliant

"We have concluded there is sufficient evidence", said a spokesman for the CPS. Presumably that means the alleged assault committed 34 years ago was witnessed by a third party and we're not just on this politically correct "You WILL be believed" trip again?

Sun 19 Jul 15 11:13   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Robin O'Reliant

I wonder who this refers to? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11749287/Senior-Labour-MP-accused-of-child-sex-abuse.html Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:16

Sun 19 Jul 15 11:31   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Roger.

Beat me to posting that link R O'R. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Sun 19 Jul 15 13:36   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - No FM2R

The first MP said... "I was told that as far back as ten years ago, he was having young boys delivered to a hotel just a few hundred yards from a local police headquarters. But some of the cases were as recent as 18 months ago. " Well its a damn shame he didn't open his mouth 10 years ago instead of waiting to be a hero, I presume it was him who told the media of his newly found concern. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Sun 19 Jul 15 13:41   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Roger.

Yeah - that thought crossed my mind, too. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Sun 19 Jul 15 14:40   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Westpig

Anyone willing to summarise the article..or cut and paste any relevant bits. I can't get in to the Telegraph article because it says I've overdone my free bit.. (and I only ever look at it from links on here). Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Sun 19 Jul 15 15:04   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Robin O'Reliant

>> Anyone willing to summarise the article..or cut and paste any relevant bits. I can't get >> in to the Telegraph article because it says I've overdone my free bit.. (and I >> only ever look at it from links on here). >> Clear your cookies and you will get it. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Sun 19 Jul 15 15:13   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Westpig

>> Clear your cookies and you will get it. >> I cleared my internet browsing history and cookies.. and it makes no difference. Did you mean something else? Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Sun 19 Jul 15 15:24   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Robin O'Reliant

That works for me, but here's the article anyway - "A senior Labour MP has been reported to police by Parliamentary colleagues over allegations he sexually abused boys, it has been claimed. Two MPs reportedly passed on their concerns to police after hearing accusations against the unnamed MP stretching back at least a decade. The accusations are latest in a string of claims that senior Westminster figures have been involved in child sex abuse, but are believed to be the first time a sitting MP has been implicated. The two MPs, one Labour and one Tory, independently went to police about their Parliamentary colleague after being shocked by information they had received, the Sun reported. Allegations included that the MP had young boys "delivered" to his room at a hotel near a police station and abused others at a hospital’s mental health unit. One victim was left so terrified he fears for his life if he ever speaks out. The MP allegedly showed a liking for "young ragamuffins" and also displayed an "unhealthy" interest in the two young sons of a local councillor. The first MP, who declined to be named, told the newspaper: “Several people who have never met one another were all telling me the same, or similar, stories of corruption, indecency and paedophile offences. "I was told that as far back as ten years ago, he was having young boys delivered to a hotel just a few hundred yards from a local police headquarters. But some of the cases were as recent as 18 months ago. "The final straw came when I heard allegations that he had been abusing two youngsters in a mental health unit. "After I was told about this, I thought for an hour or two and decided I would never forgive myself if this turned out to be another case like Jimmy Savile. "I picked up the phone and made a call to a very senior police officer." The MP gave detectives names of the details of the alleged offences, he said. A second MP has also given information to the same force. Last night a police spokesman declined to comment. But one of the MPs said a senior officer has since told him: "We are all over this MP." The accusations are likely to increase demands for a full inquiry into an alleged web of VIP paedophile rings operating at the heart of Westminster and the British Establishment from the 1970s to the 2000s. Much of the abuse was alleged to have taken place at the Dolphin Square complex in Pimlico, where a large number of MPs had flats. A BBC News team, headed by a journalist who specialises in investigating sex abuse crimes, has also had access to the latest allegations, the Mail on Sunday reported, and has already begun interviewing witnesses." Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Sun 19 Jul 15 17:56   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Westpig

>> That works for me, but here's the article anyway - Thanks Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:18

Thu 23 Jul 15 13:55   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Armel Coussine

>> Much of the abuse was alleged to have taken place at the Dolphin Square complex in Pimlico, where a large number of MPs had flats. I went there a couple of times in my politician-bothering days. The central heating's good but the flats are poky and ill-proportioned, with expensive but boringly suburban decor. I've seen more elegant council flats. The place also had a strangely sinister atmosphere, perhaps owing to blanket security, perhaps to echoes of the wailing of abused nippers and neglected wives...

Sun 19 Jul 15 16:39   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Skip

> I cleared my internet browsing history and cookies.. and it makes no difference. >> >> Did you mean something else? >> I run ccleaner and that does the trick. Can't work out how to "cheat" it on the tablet though ! Any ideas anyone ? Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:19

Sun 19 Jul 15 17:17   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - No FM2R

I think using the "incognito" setting will do it. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:19

Sun 19 Jul 15 19:43   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Bobby

Anyone watched that Australian TV program that has been doing the rounds last few days regarding paedophiles in the UK Govt? Mountbatten, Cyril Smith, Nicholas Fairbairn to name a few who have been named Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:20

Sun 19 Jul 15 19:51   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Zero

>> Anyone watched that Australian TV program that has been doing the rounds last few days >> regarding paedophiles in the UK Govt? >> Mountbatten, Cyril Smith, Nicholas Fairbairn to name a few who have been named Yeah but like everyone else, they are only naming those who have died. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:20

Sun 19 Jul 15 23:14   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - smokie

.... and none of which are current Labour politicians Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:20

Sun 19 Jul 15 20:04   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - bathtub tom

>> I think using the "incognito" setting will do it. I'm using Firefox and use the 'new private window' option (incognito in explorer). Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:19

Sun 19 Jul 15 23:17   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Roger.

>> >> Clear your cookies and you will get it. >> >> >> I cleared my internet browsing history and cookies.. and it makes no difference. >> >> Did you mean something else? >> Use Ccleaner(free version).# Go to the "Options" tab and the cookies. Make sure that any Telegraph cookies are in the left hand pane. Choose cookies you want to keep (such as this forum, banks etc) and move those to the right hand pane. Close your browser and email client (if you have one). CCleaner CANNOT delete cookies from your browser if the browser is running!!! Run Ccleaner. The cookies in the LH pane should be deleted: your wanted cookies should still be there. I use the option to run Ccleaner as a right click menu option on the recycle bin. You should then be able to read Telegraph articles until you have reached their limit of 15. Repeat as necessary. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:19

Mon 20 Jul 15 09:25   Senior Labour MP accused of child sex abuse - Westpig

Thank you Roger Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Jul 15 at 10:19

Sun 19 Jul 15 12:46   Tom Watson MP very quiet. - madf

Tom Watson - scourge of alleged paedophile rings - has been very quiet on the alleged Labour paedophiles.. but still going on about alleged Tory ones..tinyurl.com/ol9kgm6 Last edited by: madf on Sun 19 Jul 15 at 12:46

Mon 20 Jul 15 08:36   Tom Watson MP very quiet. - Dutchie

Abusing a child which ever form sorry can't believe it.Tom Watson had a go and if this bloke is Labour or whatever get him. It seems to be rive listening to the news from top to bottom sorry the phrase.I'm not homophobic but leave children alone you sick F.S.

Thu 23 Jul 15 10:17   New Links to friends of Royals? - sherlock47

preview.tinyurl.com/o6y24n5 Links to Facebook page for onward links to respected sites! Wokingham MP - Zeroland? Last edited by: sherlock47 on Thu 23 Jul 15 at 10:19

Thu 23 Jul 15 10:39   New Links to friends of Royals? - smokie

Wokingham is me (and others) but not Zero. MP is John Redwood, I don't see him mentioned...? EDIT: Ah I see "former Wokingham MP Sir William van Straubenzee" - Tory MP for Wokingham 1959-87. Now very dead. Last edited by: smokie on Thu 23 Jul 15 at 12:35

Mon 3 Aug 15 14:04   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - sherlock47

tinyurl.com/q8rjz6p

Mon 3 Aug 15 16:16   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> tinyurl.com/q8rjz6p I don't think the poor old Grocer did anything very bad. Ogled the odd choirboy perhaps.

Mon 3 Aug 15 16:39   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - commerdriver

For some people, he was single, he must have been up to something on the side Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't what does it solve now, he's been gone 10 years. How far back do you want to go?

Tue 4 Aug 15 22:11   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Zero

>> For some people, he was single, he must have been up to something on the >> side >> Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't what does it solve now, he's been gone 10 >> years. How far back do you want to go? This is truly ridiculous. What on earth is there to be gained by investigating criminal charges against a bloke who is A: unable to be interviewed b: unable to be prosecuted c: unable to appear in court d: unable to defend himself there e: impossible to sentence or punish because he has been dead for over 10 years.

Tue 4 Aug 15 22:14   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - rtj70

You mean like Jimmy Saville? If it was not for those investigations, would Rolf Harris me in prison? What about Fred Talbot, Max Clifford and Stuart Hall? Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 4 Aug 15 at 22:16

Tue 4 Aug 15 22:20   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Focusless

I thought originally the main aim was to investigate possible police cover-ups, which as I understand it doesn't necessarily involve proving whether Heath was a paedophile. Focus seems to have shifted now.

Tue 4 Aug 15 22:48   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Slidingpillar

And one could say if they keep on unearthing people to investigate, we'll forget that what needs is foremost to be done is to make sure present children are properly protected and if needed, investigate folk alive today. There is nothing whatsoever to be gained, other than a pointless witch hunt, 'investigating' folk who have been dead 10 years.

Tue 4 Aug 15 23:13   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Manatee

>> There is nothing whatsoever to be gained, other than a pointless witch hunt, 'investigating' folk >> who have been dead 10 years. They are now trapped in the cycle; because their predecessors either ignored complaints or swept evidence under the carpet, the authorities and police will have to carry on digging the drains up until whatever truth there is has been uncovered, and so on when new allegations are made, ad infinitum. I would be more impressed if the resources were put into catching people abusing children now, who can be stopped. One thing that should happen is that the subjects of these historical allegations should not be named unless and until there are to be prosecutions. The police do this because it draws out complaints, and because it has now been deemed persuasive evidence if unconnected people come up with similar accounts of their experiences with the same target. There has to be a better way to do that. Several 'unconnected' victims in the Savile case were known to have compared notes via social media. Jimmy Tarbuck, Jim Davidson and Paul Gambaccini to name but three were all publicly investigated and released without charges as long as a year later; a year in which their reputations were worthless and they were unable to work. Gambaccini was not told that he would not be prosecuted until 8 months after the police sent the papers to the CPS, he believes because they "did not want juries trying other celebrity sex cases to hear that a former Radio 1 DJ had been cleared". It was on 14 August last year that Cliff Richard's apartment was broken into and searched, with prior notice to the media and televised, before the police had even spoken to him. That is appalling. There are still no charges, and the investigation continues. Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 4 Aug 15 at 23:14

Mon 3 Aug 15 16:48   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Manatee

>> >> tinyurl.com/q8rjz6p >> >> I don't think the poor old Grocer did anything very bad. Ogled the odd choirboy >> perhaps. Doesn't feel likely, does it? Some of the vague allegations appearing on the internet have involved children being abused then killed and dumped at sea from Morning Cloud, which sounds more like a smear than a serious allegation.

Mon 3 Aug 15 17:41   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Zero

>> dumped at sea from Morning Cloud, which sounds >> more like a smear than a serious allegation. Perhaps "a slick" might be appropriate than a smear?

Mon 3 Aug 15 17:55   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> sounds >> more like a smear than a serious allegation. Sounds like a libellous invention to me. I suppose politicians get used to it.

Mon 3 Aug 15 19:01   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

Come to think of it, my French aristo school friend was sometimes a crew member on Morning Cloud and seemed to like Edward Heath, as a fellow yachtsman and European grandee I suppose... I said above that the same genial cat offered to put me up for this grand Masons' lodge. The very thought was appalling, but I was also grimly aware that there was absolutely no way I would be accepted as a member. Indeed I feared that if they looked into me they might get nasty and send their minions after me to trip me up and put sugar in my car's petrol tank. He's a genial cat. Hates his father, his son seems to hate him rather. I think his father hated his father too. Very traditional family. His wife's amusing, with a twinkle in her eye.

Tue 4 Aug 15 10:51   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - madf

DT in some detail tinyurl.com/qfdqnk6

Tue 4 Aug 15 13:14   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

A late friend, an intelligent Irishwoman of Catholic extraction and a lefty, but married to a rich Tory with parliamentary ambitions, through that connection once had to receive and entertain Edward Heath. Normally a tolerant soul, she said later that Heath was without exception the nastiest and rudest man she had ever met, cold, arrogant and deeply unpleasant in every possible way. She attributed it to misogyny, charitably under the circumstances I thought. Nevertheless I'm not convinced by the historic noncing claim, which seems pretty thin.

Tue 4 Aug 15 13:28   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Skip

>> Normally a tolerant soul, she said later that Heath was without exception the nastiest and >> rudest man she had ever met, cold, arrogant and deeply unpleasant in every possible way. Possibly he thought pretty much the same of her and of course it was nothing to do with her being a lefty !       1

Tue 4 Aug 15 13:46   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - No FM2R

Actually I had dinner with Edward Heath and it was not a pleasant experience. From the ridiculous "preparation chat" from one of his aides to the dinner and [lacking] conversation throughout. I didn't like him, his behaviour or his aides. Mind you, nothing indicated that he was anything other than normally obnoxious, if you see what I mean.

Tue 4 Aug 15 14:35   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> Actually I had dinner with Edward Heath Well, that trumps my Irish friend all right. Can't help being curious about the circumstances though, assuming you didn't go down on your knees and beg for a chance to meet the great man. If modesty prevents you from answering, so be it. Cheeky question really I know.

Tue 4 Aug 15 21:55   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - No FM2R

>>Can't help being curious about the circumstances Just work.

Tue 4 Aug 15 13:53   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> Possibly he thought pretty much the same of her I doubt if he thought anything of her, or that she even registered properly on his consciousness. When you're as grand as that in your own eyes you don't waste energy worrying about what people think of you. Their small thoughts are too trivial to matter.

Tue 4 Aug 15 15:08   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Dutchie

When I listen to David Cameron has he got any empathy for the working people.Cameron George Osborne and Boris Johnson all went to the same school at Eton. From these schools do you end up with a class system inbred in their teachings.With other words we are more privileged better educated than most of those plebs and let them never forget it.

Tue 4 Aug 15 15:26   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> we are more privileged better educated than most of those plebs and let them never forget it. Education that makes people feel superior isn't the real thing. One of the basic principles of proper education is severe self-judgement. And although it's connected with social class in various ways, education is distinct from social class.

Tue 4 Aug 15 15:36   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Manatee

No wonder it costs £30,000 a year if it makes them feel superior and inferior at the same time. Heath of course was a grammar boy. Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 4 Aug 15 at 15:36

Tue 4 Aug 15 15:49   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> Heath of course was a grammar boy. Yes, from a time when teachers could read, write, spell and count, before crap lefty teachers torpedoed the education system.       2

Tue 4 Aug 15 16:21   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Focusless

>> Yes, from a time when teachers could read, write, spell and count, before crap lefty >> teachers torpedoed the education system. A bit later admittedly, 1975-ish, but the English lit teacher at my grammar was very lefty; drove a Moskovitch (mum also taught there and confirmed he didn't just buy it for its stunning looks). I think it was a Moskovitch anyway; definitely wasn't a 'well known' make like a Lada or Skoda. Any other suggestions? EDIT: forgot to say his teaching seemed ok Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 4 Aug 15 at 16:22

Tue 4 Aug 15 20:03   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> English lit teacher at my grammar was very lefty; drove a Moskovitch (mum also taught there and confirmed he didn't just buy it for its stunning looks). A CP member or fellow traveller. They still existed in those days. A fellow minicabber in Clapham had a brand new Moskvitch in air force blue. What an ugly mean little motor it was too, totally rubbish post-Soviet aesthetic, yuck, those tail fins... far too small for him because he was a big fat guy, an ex-Rhodesian policeman to boot. An equable cat in my experience. Of course he had bought it because it was cheap, but it was too meanly proportioned to make a decent cab. His nickname was 'Dirty Jim', something to do with his fondness for a particularly blowsy old babe who was a regular punter... rubbish scent and that crucial hint of body odour. (OOOOOh! Get Her!, I'm thinking. In reality I didn't mind that lady, felt a bit sorry for her, always treated her politely).

Tue 4 Aug 15 20:40   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Dog

>> A fellow minicabber in Clapham had a brand new Moskvitch in air force blue Holy Jesus! .. what sort of cowboy sowf lunden minicab firm would take a blimming Moskvitch onto their books. :o)

Tue 4 Aug 15 20:51   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

>> what sort of cowboy sowf lunden minicab firm would take a blimming Moskvitch onto their books. My sort. If you could pay the radio rent in advance and take a lot of badly paid account jobs you were welcome. Nothing pretentious, that's for poncy hire car firms. They'd walk round your car and make you drive them around a bit. If you did that OK and could pay the usurious insurance rate you were in. They were cowboys all right though... YEEEE-hah! One of the owners did club racing in a 7 litre Ford Galaxie. The other one worried about money and clipped your earnings...

Tue 4 Aug 15 21:06   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Dog

I 'spose minicabbing is a stop gap, where one could earn some 'alf-decent wedge if one was willing to work all the hours Allah gave. My sisters boy did it (he's 60 now) for a number of years. It enabled him to stash the cash and eventually go into the car repair and restoration game (cut & shut!!) He's doing alright is Keith, owns a lorra properties in sowf lunden, he's even owns a gaff in Blackheath FFS!

Tue 4 Aug 15 22:18   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Roger.

>> >> A fellow minicabber in Clapham had a brand new Moskvitch in air force blue >> >> Holy Jesus! .. what sort of cowboy sowf lunden minicab firm would take a blimming >> Moskvitch onto their books. >> >> :o) >> The same sort of cowboys who had a fleet of Renault Dauphins?

Wed 5 Aug 15 08:10   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Dog

>>The same sort of cowboys who had a fleet of Renault Dauphins? I always liked the Dauphin, wouldn't mind one now actually: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWSrG0VNFKo

Wed 5 Aug 15 08:51   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - henry k

>> I always liked the Dauphin, wouldn't mind one now actually: >> IIRC the rear had a "magnetic" attraction to roadside trees etc :-(

Wed 5 Aug 15 08:57   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - CGNorwich

The British add. I remember had a song that went: She holds the road, whatever the load. That’s Aerostable suspension The Renault Dauphine! Stuck in my mind since the sixties (refreshed via google!)

Wed 5 Aug 15 10:12   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Duncan

Ah! Minicabs and the Renault Dauphine... I thought my memory was ok. Welbeck motors and Michael Gotla. Link to Motor Sport (don't often see that!) tinyurl.com/nnyaeyp

Wed 5 Aug 15 19:06   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Armel Coussine

I remember Welbeck Motors and its maroon Dauphines. Trouble was, they were small flimsy cars, too small really for cabs. A nudge from the front bumper of a black cab would bash in a panel or two. Welbeck had come in with a huge fleet of the things, much money and fanfare, and the black cabbies with their licences to print money took it very amiss. So there were a lot of those nudges, and the whole Welbeck fleet was in a very sorry state almost immediately. Later on minicabs were more discreet, all sorts of cars. But they had a certain look, with the giveaway shortwave aerial. My wireless antenna was a cool long one attached to the bottom edge of my estate's rear hatch. 'AC 18, AC 18, Biggles, where are you young man? Anywhere near Wandsworth Common Sahf Side? Urgent account job going to Barnet... Over, roger rodge...' Sigh. It's like yesterday. Urgent jobs could be anything from drunken Poles to containers of blood or plasma in refrigerated boxes.

Wed 5 Aug 15 09:57   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Alanovich

>> >> A fellow minicabber in Clapham had a brand new Moskvitch in air force blue Don't know if you still can, but in Soviet times official taxis were a bit thin on the ground and you could flag down private motorists on Moscow streets, and if they were going your way they'd take you for a couple of roubles. My favourite ride was always a Volga, Ladas were second in the pecking order of preference. Then Moskvich, then those silly little rear engine Ukrainian things which looked like Hillman Imps a bit - Zaporozhyets. Think yourselves lucky they never sold those in the UK. A real rare treat was a passing truck picking us up. The Moskvich model which was sold in the UK was replaced in the 1980s by a model which was an almost exact copy of the Chrysler/Talbot Alpine. That one never came to the UK but if it had I reckon it would have done better here, sales wise. It was a 1000% improvement on the tail-finned rubbish. Oddly, they didn't import cars from other Commie Bloc countries, there were no Skodas, FSOs, Yugos, Trabants, Wartburgs, none of that malarkey. Just Soviet made stuff. Weirdest thing I ever saw was a white, 2-door Mk1 Ford Escort on Soviet plates, must have been the only foreign vehicle I ever noticed.

Tue 4 Aug 15 16:21   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Robin O'Reliant

Some developments, it seems - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11782703/Sir-Edward-Heath-Wiltshire-Police-receive-number-of-calls-from-potential-sex-abuse-victims.html

Wed 5 Aug 15 12:49   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Cliff Pope

.Cameron >> George Osborne and Boris Johnson all went to the same school at Eton. George Osborne went to St Paul's.

Wed 5 Aug 15 18:47   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Westpig

>> .Cameron >> >> George Osborne and Boris Johnson all went to the same school at Eton. I've never been able to work out why that would be a problem. Do we not want the best people at the helm, and if their families were rich enough to give them the best education... so what, we'll take it.... won't we? ....and if people from other less privileged backgrounds are good enough, they'll make it.. and we'll have them in charge....i.e. Maggie. What is there to moan about?

Wed 5 Aug 15 19:54   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Roger.

Heath's proven crime was lying to the British public to persuade them that the "Common Market" was only about trade advantages and not the thin edge of a very big wedge leading to a political, economic and legally homogenised Union of a Federal Europe.       1

Wed 5 Aug 15 19:59   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - No FM2R

Your obsession is becoming painful. Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 5 Aug 15 at 20:02

Wed 5 Aug 15 20:34   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Robin O'Reliant

I have a great deal of sympathy with this view - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11784844/The-Edward-Heath-witch-hunt-is-the-stuff-of-Hitlers-dreams.html

Wed 5 Aug 15 22:14   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Dutchie

The people at the top will never be found out regarding child abuse.And if they are found out it is after they are dead and buried. The establishment will always cover up for each other the more anyone looks into to this the more sickly it becomes.

Thu 6 Aug 15 10:17   Operation Yewtree - Edward Heath in the frame? - Roger.

>> Your obsession is becoming painful. >> It gives you summat to do, namely, sneering! :-)       2