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BA49 Boeing 777 LHR to Seattle has squawked a mayday over the scottish highlands, done a 360 south, and has been circling over the sea off Barrow in Furness, dumping fuel i guess, now heading south to Liverpool.
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heading south past liverpool, heading for Birmingham
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Presumably going back to LHR?
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 16:26
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Apparently one of the air stewards thinks they have left their hair straighteners switched on in the house....
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They seemed to have cleared out the flights that would have been landing after it.
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Now landed and turned off runway, following approaches back to normal.
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>> Presumably going back to LHR?
Yes back on the ground at LHR.
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Even on a fine dry day, it seems to me that landing a large passenger aircraft must be very fraught, given the Heath Robinson arrangements for stopping the thing. Reverse thrust so-called is very iffy and unstable, and would be a very bad moment for an engine failure. Then there are the massive carbon fibre disc brakes in the main landing dollies, and the tyres repeatedly flat-spotted and one assumes replaced along with the discs at very short intervals.
If the reverse thrust has been untidy enough to take the aircraft too far down the runway before the wheel brakes cut in, they are going to get very hot and the aircraft may overshoot the runway, especially if conditions are icy. There was one of those yesterday, can't remember where. A cold place.
Small planes are even hairier in a way. One came down badly near here yesterday.
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Well a landing is only a controlled crash after all:)
One went off the runway at La Guardia yesterday in falling snow I think.
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>> Well a landing is only a controlled crash after all:)
>>
>> One went off the runway at La Guardia yesterday in falling snow I think.
No winter tyres.
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>> >> Well a landing is only a controlled crash after all:)
>> >>
>> >> One went off the runway at La Guardia yesterday in falling snow I think.
>>
>> No winter tyres.
>>
But what award should this passenger get ?
www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/...ing/vp-BBih7CI
About 5 mins in !!!!
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>dupe
Last edited by: henry k on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 17:04
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Very good, calm account. Why did he want to use the bathroom...? Did he need to shower or bathe ? ;-)
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>>>> One went off the runway at La Guardia yesterday in falling snow I think.>>
Not thought about it, it did and very nearly ended up in the water...:-(
But the Daily Mail reported that the various aircraft that landed before it had no problems "breaking" but, when the MD-88 involved skidded off the runway, the "breaking" made no difference.....:-)
Oh, apart from the fact a wing broke off....
Last edited by: Stuartli on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 23:46
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>> One went off the runway at La Guardia yesterday
That was the cold place I meant.
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No doubt FF will give us the 'gen' shortly AC but I think in fact the brakes do most of the work. Still a problem though on shorter runways where brakes can get quite hot just on a normal landing. ISTR someone telling me that on an A321 landing at Leeds, one of UK's shorter runways, they only just cooled enough during turn round to be within limits for take off (ie in case of a late abort).
Most 'off the ends' in UK are pilot error, late touchdown etc, or mechanical fault. I think Prince Charles gave up flying himself after putting one of Mum's BAe146's in the grass at end of Islay's runway.
Brtish Airways put a Tristar off the end at Leeds in 1985 almost ending up on the adjacent golf course. The Standard's cartoonist, the late Jak, had the pilot leaning out of the window telling a golfer 'I don't think much of your putt either'.
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>> No doubt FF will give us the 'gen' shortly AC but I think in fact the brakes do most of the work.
I'm no expert but I used to do a fair amount of flying and am observant where vehicles are concerned. I think aircraft touch down at about 150mph, and reverse thrust is then used to reduce the speed to about 70 before the brakes cut in. I'd say the reverse thrust did the essential part of the work.
Screw driven planes used to reverse feather the propeller blades. Jets and fanjets use a sort of scoop that deflects the thrust through 180 degrees. A short burst of full throttle follows, and you can feel the strong deceleration, more marked than brakes can possibly manage. If conditions are wet you can see the jet blast on the runway.
Been in a few planes that wriggled hairily under reverse thrust. I suppose pilots get used to it but it always seems hairy to me.
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"......Brtish Airways put a Tristar off the end at Leeds in 1985 almost ending up on the adjacent golf course. The Standard's cartoonist, the late Jak, had the pilot leaning out of the window telling a golfer 'I don't think much of your putt either'."
That would be this lot then?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VLYpKGVBUg
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 21:27
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The boss serves dinner like that. Have to be ready to field the vegetables as they ricochet off the plates. She's from Halifax.
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I'm used to it now. You have to take the rough with the rough smooth - she doesn't talk much.
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Seriously though, my exex managed a shop in Halifax. A friendly place, until she got done over putting Saturdays takings into a night safe. Just over the hill from where I lived in Griefley. Some lovely buildings, especially Piece Hall Yard. A good pal of mine, a builder, spends most of his time working there and informs me it has gone downhill these past 20 years. Same applies to Huddersfield. I spent a Saturday afternoon drinking there last month with 15 friends to celebrate another friends 60th. Some cracking real ale pubs, but a hole nonetheless.
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Griefley....? Is that the name for somewhere real up-north ?
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>> Griefley....? Is that the name for somewhere real up-north ?
I was thinking auto correct for Guiseley - my home for several years.
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>> >> Griefley....?
Keighley I'm thinking :)
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>>> Keighley I'm thinking :)
More in context than my suggestion.
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Keighley at a guess. It's "special" there...
Edit - snap !
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 22:04
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I couldn't be bothered with that west Yorkshire conurbation now - all traffic lights and road humps. it would have to be north Yorkshire.
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Keighley
Lived there for 15 years before leaving West Yorks for N Yorks. We have names for these places, such as Shipley. Only the P isn't a P!
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>> Keighley
>> Lived there for 15 years before leaving West Yorks for N Yorks. We have names
>> for these places, such as Shipley. Only the P isn't a P!
As in adjacent to Waildon?
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I used to be a member of Waildon GC in my early teens
Then beer & girls entered my life and I hung up the clubs. Might get them out again when I'm 70.
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Were you ever a member of the Idle Working Men's Club?
www.idleworkingmensclub.co.uk/
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>> Were you ever a member of the Idle Working Men's Club?
>>
>> www.idleworkingmensclub.co.uk/
>>
It would almost be worth just for the comments you would get.
£7 a year membership, not exactly a rip-off.
Why is it £10 to be an honorary member? Is because they get no brass from t'beer sales?
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>> Were you ever a member of the Idle Working Men's Club?
>>
>> www.idleworkingmensclub.co.uk/
No good if you worked for William Denby & Co at Baildon.
Anyone else remember the notices on WMCs in that part of world banning employees of that company. Some sort of dispute about Unions IIRC.
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And not far from Cleckhudisfax.
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I rather like the sound of Griefley....
"Eeeeh I'm off t'Griefley tomorrow,,,"
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That's quite encouraging actually, the area gives the impression that most communication is non verbal and involves banjos...
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Again heartening, must be jolly difficult to flee the scene of a banjo acquisition undetected while running in clogs.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 22:13
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Talking of non verbal communication in Griefley, I once asked a customer if she was talking to me or sucking pebbles. She thought it was hilarious.
We kept a book in the shop ( both shops actually) where staff wrote down stupid customer questions and the days anecdotes. Happy days. I was a good employer. We had a fridge in the shop and the staff were allowed to start drinking at 3pm. Saturdays only. Only a couple of cans mind you.
Last edited by: legacylad on Fri 6 Mar 15 at 22:16
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Did you give them time off in the day to feed the ferrets, whippets and pigeons?
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>> Did you give them time off in the day to feed the ferrets, whippets and
>> pigeons?
>>
this IS serious thread drift:)
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Not really
The shops I worked in in Grieflley sold cage birds.....
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The shops I worked in in Griefley
Sold cage birds, alas only briefly.
One squawk from the cage
Provoked me to rage
And the bird's in the pot, completely.
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And here was me thinking the only time accountants had a sense of humour was when they were compiling and submitting their invoices to clients...
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 7 Mar 15 at 20:25
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his bill for that ditty is in the post.
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a billie is in the post then
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You get them in IKEA don't you? Actually it's probably remarkably similar in so far as it should take about 15 minutes to do it but somehow that stretches to an hour...
;-)
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>> Her bill I think...
>>
Correct, of course.
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>> And here was me thinking the only time accountants had a sense of humour was
>> when they were compiling and submitting their invoices to clients...
>>
>> ;-)
>>
No passing on trade secrets, please!
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Full reverse helps stopping performance on a wet runway, idle reverse reduces brake temps. Carbon brake wear proportional to number of applications, not temperature.
Wheels equipped with brake fans for short turnarounds (short runway / heavy aircraft will easily reach 500C per brake pack).
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>> Full reverse helps stopping performance on a wet runway,
And a dry one as I remember.
Most main airport runways are enormously long and wide, like military runways which they often also are of course.
I have a theory that pilots attempting to touch down imperceptibly, which they sometimes succeed in doing, may get a bit too far down the runway, huge though it is, before the time comes to apply full reverse thrust. I wouldn't think you'd go for that until the aircraft was running more or less straight. That may stress the brakes a bit in their turn.
I can't remember a flight in a commercial aircraft that didn't involve a burst of full reverse thrust on landing. Of course when just down and above say 80mph the aircraft is steered by its rudder, as it were flying along the runway. Quite apart from engine anomalies though, the wriggling I have noticed must often be a result of sidewinds or inconvenient air currents, not always apparent to a passenger.
Sorry FF. Tell me if you think I'm being silly. I won't mind.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 8 Mar 15 at 19:59
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>> And a dry one as I remember.
Indeed, but does not endear one to the natives. Full reverse generally only used if performance calculations require it (eg Belfast City in the wet).
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>> >> And a dry one as I remember.
>>
>> Indeed, but does not endear one to the natives. Full reverse generally only used if
>> performance calculations require it (eg Belfast City in the wet).
How does Leeds/Bradford score in that regard?
I was an enthusiast there in seventies when runway was 5400ft - extension to 7380 came along in 1984. Only regular jet operator until 1976 was Aer Lingus - 737-248 series. Reverse went on pretty hard and sharp as on odd occasion BA had a 1-11 in place of usual Viscount.
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>> Full reverse generally only used if performance calculations require it (eg Belfast City in the wet).
I'd been trying not to think about that. Not just in the wet, but in a very strong sort of upwards sidewind. The aircraft, a Viscount I think, sidled along the side of a sort of escarpment, then went up it sideways to where the runway was, landing on one wheel and wriggling like anything for a long way. Lots of thrumming reverse thrust too.
After that, allegedly hairy Belfast was a bit of a disappointment. Hardly heard a gunshot in five days.
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Full thrust reverse used plenty in wet or dry in my experience, although I've only seen on or off systems. Never one that could be partially deployed. Brakes tend to be last on the list; lift dump, airbrake tended to be used first.
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You will be able to tell me if I was spun a line FF. When flying with the RAF in Nimrods the crews would be unimpressed with "gentle" landings and much preferred "positive" ones particularly in crosswind landing conditions. They would mark the landings out of 10 and let the pilots know the result in no uncertain terms.
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As long as it's in the touchdown zone, roughly on the centre line, at the right speed without breaking the aircraft, it's safe.
Smooth landings nice, but holding off for a greaser extremely unprofessional. My experience is that a plop followed by gentle braking much preferred by passengers over a smooth landing followed with deceleration that leaves dental records in the headrest.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Sun 8 Mar 15 at 20:33
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Thanks FF, I think the wind up bit was a greaser in a crosswind could put you off the runway. I walked away from many RAF landings, but had to run away from an aborted RAAF take off, (failed engine and brakes on fire).
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>> Thanks FF, I think the wind up bit was a greaser in a crosswind could
>> put you off the runway. I walked away from many RAF landings, but had to
>> run away from an aborted RAAF take off, (failed engine and brakes on fire).
>>
Yes, that could conceivably happen if a very gentle touchdown occurred which didn't trigger the ground spoilers to deploy. My preferred technique is reduced flap in strong winds, which tends to eliminate the tendency to float.
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Video start to finish of Thomson 757 squawk after bird strike. Manchester 2007.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE
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That was the birds squawking, shurely?
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>> That was the birds squawking, shurely?
A puff of pink slurry and shards of rotor blade with ghostly squawks coming out of it? Something like that?
Artistically sound, scientifically dodgy as so often.
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sqauwk 7700 - Zero
