Non-motoring > Summer time clock changes.	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: No FM2R	Replies: 53

Wed 4 Mar 15 20:32   Summer time clock changes. - No FM2R

Chile has announced that its not going to do clock forwards/back anymore. The time is what it is now and it will stay that way, apparently. Aside from the fact that I hardly ever know what the time is anyway, it seems like a good move which has been a long time coming. Now if the rest of the world would just follow suit......... Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 4 Mar 15 at 20:33 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 20:43   Summer time clock changes. - Bromptonaut

Two thoughts: What do the population at middle/end of Chile's southern extent think of this change? Is Argentina of same mind? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 21:48   Summer time clock changes. - WillDeBeest

Russia did something similar a few years ago - adopted permanent summer time, which is what I think NoFM is describing in Chile. It will make life a little easier for those of us doing business there from a distance, as at least Chilean time will stay put and we won't have to make one adjustment for it being summer there and another for it being winter here. But the change was massively unpopular in Russia - at least in Moscow where I went shortly after it was introduced. That was November and it wasn't light till nearly 10 in the morning. Santiago doesn't have a massive swing in photoperiod - I was there at the height of summer and it was still dark by nine each evening. But as Bromp suggests, it must be a different story down south. Chile is very capital-centred, though; I think something like a third of Chilenos live in Santiago. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 21:55   Summer time clock changes. - Runfer D'Hills

I'd like permanent BST equivalent. Daylight is so much more useful or useable at the end of a day than the beginning. Kids can play out in it, anyone can take part in outdoor pursuits or sports more easily in it. As for the road "safety" argument, I'd counter that by suggesting that drivers who are fresh and alert in the morning are better placed to cope with the additional burden of darkness than ones who are tired and in a rush to get home after work. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 22:21   Summer time clock changes. - BiggerBadderDave

Poland change their clocks as well so they're an hour in front of the UK all year round. Odd really, cos their driving standard is 30 years behind and supermarket customer service is from WW2. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 22:23   Summer time clock changes. - Runfer D'Hills

Good dancers though apparently. I have a friend who says Pole dancers are his favourite... Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 22:38   Summer time clock changes. - RattleandSmoke

They make good cars as well them Pole dancers, providing it has a FIAT badge on it and not FSO :D Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 22:53   Summer time clock changes. - CGNorwich

UK tried year round BST in 1968 I beieve for a couple of years. Experiment was terminated after lobbying by the Scots and the farming fraternity who didn't want to milk their cows in the dark despite statistical evidence that the experiment had save many lives as a result of children returning from school in the light. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 22:55   Summer time clock changes. - Runfer D'Hills

Yeah, I never quite understood why the farmers didn't just start and finish work to suit the actual daylight rather than the clock. Cows don't generally wear watches. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:34   Summer time clock changes. - MD

I would agree for the most part, but I am torn between:- Are the majority of Drivers in a rush to get home? Or as I observe, late for work? Six of one and half a dozen of the other perhaps? As a complete aside I think that all School Children should be enforced (for now I can't think of a better word) to wear reflective clothing on their school journeys. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 23:17   Summer time clock changes. - Old Navy

>> As a complete aside I think that all School Children should be enforced (for now >> I can't think of a better word) to wear reflective clothing on their school journeys. >> I was in northern Norway a few months ago, it was dark for 18 hours a day. Many adults wore a reflective armband around one of their wrists. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 22:55   Summer time clock changes. - No FM2R

I've never heard the term "photoperiod", but the light of Chile's day shifts more than you think; from 14 hours in the summer to 9.75 in the winter - so over 4 hours. Not as much as the UK, but still significant. (BTW, the annual average of sunshine hours is about 7 hours per day. Hah!!) Whilst 1/3 of Chile's total population is in Santiago, about 80% of the people with influence live here. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 4 Mar 15 23:05   Summer time clock changes. - WillDeBeest

Sorry, biologist's term. Many living systems - trees coming into leaf, birds nesting and migrating - have evolved to be governed by day length rather than (as is popularly supposed) temperature. Presumably because those ancestral organisms less likely to be fooled by a sudden warm day had greater reproductive success by not laying their eggs before there were any caterpillars to feed the chicks. Anyway, 'photoperiod' is what I was taught to call this. Day length will do. }:---) Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 01:19   Summer time clock changes. - Armel Coussine

OMG! Perhaps this is a leap year and I've been a day out for the last four days or is it three! I'll never be able to look any of my distinguished international contacts in the eye ever again! OMG! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 08:58   Summer time clock changes. - WillDeBeest

Another convivial evening chez Armel. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 09:52   Summer time clock changes. - movilogo

>> Now if the rest of the world would just follow suit......... Some large countries like China and India don't have DST. It is just a convention adopted by some countries. Personally I don't like the concept of changing clocks. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 5 Mar 15 10:22   Summer time clock changes. - WillDeBeest

It's not about size, Movi (that's another thread) but about latitude. India is in low to fairly low latitudes, so day length doesn't vary hugely from summer to winter. China's does, but its government has taken an arbitrary decision to impose a single time zone on the whole country, which must be a right pain in the western provinces. Humph is right that daylight is most useful later in the day, so it makes sense to me to shift the clock with the seasons to align it to human activities. Most of the UK would be fine on UTC+1 in the winter and UTC+2 in the summer. Given that other countries use different times in different regions, what would be the harm in allowing Scotland and Northern Ireland to adopt their own system in the winter to suit their higher latitudes? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 10:31   Summer time clock changes. - Old Navy

>> Given that other countries use different times in different regions, what would >> be the harm in allowing Scotland and Northern Ireland to adopt their own system in >> the winter to suit their higher latitudes? >> Don't give the SNP ideas, give them a time zone and they will want their own currency, and maybe even independence. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 11:04   Summer time clock changes. - Cliff Pope

Having a uniform time zone does not mean that everybody everywhere has to do things at the same time. Any organisation is free to determine its own operating hours, on any basis they like, including having regard to the need for daylight, and fitting in with other local organisations, the convenience of their customers, the costs of labour, electricity, etc. It constantly amazes me the number of people who appear really to believe that tinkering with the clock actually changes the amount of daylight. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 11:07   Summer time clock changes. - VxFan

Will this mean all the watches that display world time zones will now be wrong? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 11:29   Summer time clock changes. - WillDeBeest

Most of those find it hard to allow for summer time anyway. My radio-controlled Citizen travel watch has Santiago on the bezel but needs to be manually adjusted for summer time. (It can't get a radio signal there anyway, nor could it in Athens.) Now it'll just need the same adjustment even in the Chilean winter. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 11:54   Summer time clock changes. - Bromptonaut

Seems to me that UTC/UTC+1 works as well as anything for UK. Significantly, Europe's other western outliers Ireland and Portugal also use that model. France might too but it's long land borders with Germany and Switzerland pull it the other way. Even before open frontiers the areas round Geneva, Mulhouse/Basle and throughout Alsace had considerable cross border trade/commerce and UTC+1/+2 is OK in Paris. The western fringes in Brittany etc live with it I guess. Applying a time zone appropriate to Berlin or Vienna to UK ain't going to be comfortable. Even here in the SE Midlands UTC+1 would put midwinter sunrise after 09:00, so gloomy until 10. Similarly UTC+2 from end March would mean twilight extending into commute time for most of April. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 11:55 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 12:00   Summer time clock changes. - No FM2R

The need for different timezones is obvious. Aside from anythign else it allows a common term of reference. "We all work at 9am". "Country A is 2 hours different from Country B" Much easier than; Its 9:00am everywhere, now what time does Country B start work? Where it becomes pointless is Daylight Savings, or Summer Time or whatever its called this week. It just complicates things and doesn't deliver any advantage I can see. Times have changed and the world is no longer driven by sunrise and sunset. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 12:34   Summer time clock changes. - Bromptonaut

>> Where it becomes pointless is Daylight Savings, or Summer Time or whatever its called this >> week. It just complicates things and doesn't deliver any advantage I can see. >> >> Times have changed and the world is no longer driven by sunrise and sunset. And yet most countries at latitudes where it makes a difference continue with the system. We've discussed Western/Central Europe above. Australia practices it in two of its three time zones although Queensland and Northern Territory opt out. IIRC it's been a bit of a political football within some States and/or between States and Commonwealth govt. All of New Zealand uses DST too as does Canada. Although the original rationale vis a vis agriculture has gone most of us still get up between 6 and 8, starting work an hour or so later. Early(ish) daylight in winter and a wish for light evenings in early/late summer mean we move the clocks. It works. It's not even a massive household logistical exercise now many clocks, particularly those in devices, sort themselves out automatically. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 12:45   Summer time clock changes. - Cliff Pope

>> >> Although the original rationale vis a vis agriculture has gone >> That was always the silliest reason ever put forward for changing the clocks. As if farmers of all people were not used to working all hours anyway, as circumstances dictated. What did they do before the change - let their animals die because the clock said it wasn't time to get up? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 13:11   Summer time clock changes. - Old Navy

Most modern tractors have enough lights to floodlight a football pitch :) Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 13:38   Summer time clock changes. - Roger.

If the Green Party get their way we will all be getting up with the sun and going to bed at sundown. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 13:43   Summer time clock changes. - Armel Coussine

>> If the Green Party get their way we will all be getting up with the sun and going to bed at sundown. With armed guards and Alsatians to keep us indoors until the two-minute blast on the dawn air raid siren? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 22:24   Summer time clock changes. - Roger.

Possibly! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 13:52   Summer time clock changes. - Zero

>> Most modern tractors have enough lights to floodlight a football pitch :) Most modern tractors don't need lights, fitted as they are with differential GPS and millimetre accurate ground plans. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 14:03   Summer time clock changes. - Old Navy

>> >> Most modern tractors have enough lights to floodlight a football pitch :) >> >> Most modern tractors don't need lights, fitted as they are with differential GPS and millimetre >> accurate ground plans. >> Not in and around farm buildings. Tractors do a lot more than trundle up and down fields. Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 14:04 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 13:55   Summer time clock changes. - Zero

>> And yet most countries at latitudes where it makes a difference continue with the system. >> We've discussed Western/Central Europe above. Australia practices it in two of its three time zones >> although Queensland and Northern Territory opt out. There was a bit of a running gag in Australia where Northern Territories and Queensland folk were the "irish" of the joke world. It went along the lines of "they opted out of daylight saving because they thought too much sun faded their curtains" Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 15:15   Summer time clock changes. - Dutchie

We should be equal with continental times easier for everybody.Visited my sister for the day in Rotterdam had to move the clock forward 1 hr.Can't see the point. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 5 Mar 15 16:29   Summer time clock changes. - hjd

>> We should be equal with continental times easier for everybody.Visited my sister for the day >> in Rotterdam had to move the clock forward 1 hr.Can't see the point. >> Not all of Europe is +1 - Finland is +2. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 22:23   Summer time clock changes. - Roger.

>> >> We should be equal with continental times easier for everybody.Visited my sister for the >> day >> >> in Rotterdam had to move the clock forward 1 hr.Can't see the point. >> >> >> Not all of Europe is +1 - Finland is +2. >> Portugal is GMT, I think. (+ / - 0)! Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 22:23 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 17:55   Summer time clock changes. - Duncan

>> We should be equal with continental times easier for everybody.Visited my sister for the day >> in Rotterdam had to move the clock forward 1 hr.Can't see the point. >> Can't see that it matters. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 17:59   Summer time clock changes. - Bromptonaut

If you go east or west then you're going to need to change clocks at some point. Personally I've never found doing it on the ferry or plane to/from continental Europe much of an imposition. Not even if I have to do it twice in same day. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 18:06   Summer time clock changes. - Runfer D'Hills

If you buy a house/car/bag of sweets on the 1st of March and then cross the international date line so you're now on the 28th of February have you actually bought it/them yet? ;-) Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 18:07 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 18:28   Summer time clock changes. - Zero

>> Not even if I have to do it twice in same day. No - sorry thats an exceptionally annoying thing to have to do. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 19:06   Summer time clock changes. - Bromptonaut

>> No - sorry thats an exceptionally annoying thing to have to do. Some folks are easily annoyed :-P Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 19:09   Summer time clock changes. - No FM2R

Like I said, different times is fine. Works to my advantage as often as it works against. Seasonal changes though are just an a***. As such I do not approve them and demand that they all be removed forthwith. Who do I write to and command? Edit: Has "arse" really been added to the swear filter? Its not always been there, has it? Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 19:11 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 17:59   Summer time clock changes. - CGNorwich

Could have been worse. British Summer Time was first established by the Summer Time Act 1916, after a campaign by builder William Willett. His original proposal was to move the clocks forward by 80 minutes, in 20-minute weekly steps on Sundays in April and by the reverse procedure in September Per Wikipaedia Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:07   Summer time clock changes. - Zero

before the railways arrived, none of us were using the same time anyway. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:09   Summer time clock changes. - No FM2R

I remember being very proud of my first watch which was accurate to within 2 minutes per day. I got it for my 11th Birthday. Ironically these days my watch is pretty much never that accurate, although it neither loses nor gains time by itself. Right now that would appear to be 3 minutes fast. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:21   Summer time clock changes. - Zero

>> Ironically these days my watch is pretty much never that accurate, although it neither loses >> nor gains time by itself. Right now that would appear to be 3 minutes fast. My mother insists on having radio controlled clocks about the house because she says they are always very accurate. She does not have to be anywhere by any particular time, she does not have time critical appointments, lives life by whats next on the tele. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:57   Summer time clock changes. - Bromptonaut

>> lives life by whats next on the tele. Needs an accurate clock so she doesn't miss the first minute of Emmerdale? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:22   Summer time clock changes. - CGNorwich

>> before the railways arrived, none of us were using the same time anyway. >> Yes, Norwich was once 3 minutes ahead of London but now it's about 30 years behind. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:38   Summer time clock changes. - Zero

>> >> before the railways arrived, none of us were using the same time anyway. >> >> >> >> Yes, Norwich was once 3 minutes ahead of London but now it's about 30 years >> behind. One day a motorway might even reach Norwich. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:49   Summer time clock changes. - CGNorwich

Hey, we've got dual carriageway all the way to the M11 now. When I first used to come up here from back in the early seventies the A11 entered Norwich my means of a medieval bridge at Cringleford which had one way operation controlled by Traffic lights. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 20:07   Summer time clock changes. - Slidingpillar

British Summer Time was first established by the Summer Time Act 1916, after a campaign by builder William Willett. His original proposal was to move the clocks forward by 80 minutes, in 20-minute weekly steps on Sundays in April and by the reverse procedure in September Shades of Sandringham time, UTC +30mins, to improve winter daylight for royals to go hunting... Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Thu 5 Mar 15 at 20:09 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 21:43   Summer time clock changes. - VxFan

>> Its not always been there, has it? Yep. put there by an ex moderator from Leamington Spa, IIRC. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 5 Mar 15 22:21   Summer time clock changes. - No FM2R

Did I, by God. So even the memory is going now. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 5 Mar 15 22:22   Summer time clock changes. - Roger.

>> We should be equal with continental times easier for everybody.Visited my sister for the day >> in Rotterdam had to move the clock forward 1 hr.Can't see the point. No; they should change to be the same as us! LOL :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 5 Mar 15 23:58   Summer time clock changes. - Dutchie

You have a point Roger.I must admit I find it easier to drive on the left than right. Reply to this message | Report message