New neighbours since August. They have a dog, I'm no expert but I'd categorise it as a Jack Russell sort of beastie. Occasionally it's been out in garden yapping for an hour or so but seems to coincide with visits by a young child who maybe doesn't get on with it. I don't even know their names as we've not found time to introduce ourselves. I do know guy on other side though.
Tonight it's been barking on and off for at least last couple of hours, maybe as long as since I got home from CAB at 17:00. While there are lights on in couple of rooms there are no cars and no-one visible in the (newly created) through kitchen diner. I thibk they're out but have lights left on or on timer.
It's -2 out there. How long should I leave it before intervening and if so how?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 19 Jan 15 at 19:41
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Start by ringing their doorbell and seeing if they are in?
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>> Start by ringing their doorbell and seeing if they are in?
Considered that. I'm pretty sure they're not as only lights are in a room with no-one in and what looks like a landing light visible through bathroom window.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 19 Jan 15 at 19:54
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Sounds like the best result for the B-household is for it to freeze to death.
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Problem with that is its barking yapping will keep the damn thing warm.
Throwing a bucket of water over it may speed its demise.
A complaint to the council wouldn't identify the complainant, but I suspect you know that from your voluntary work.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Mon 19 Jan 15 at 19:58
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>> Problem with that is its barking yapping will keep the damn thing warm.
>>
>> Throwing a bucket of water over it may speed its demise.
>>
>> A complaint to the council wouldn't identify the complainant, but I suspect you know that
>> from your voluntary work.
>>
Unless lots of other houses equidistant it's pretty obvious who the complainant is.
My suspicion is that most people who own a dog think that it's perfectly acceptable for their dog to bark most hours of the day. My neighbours turf the dog out at 6am when they go to work and bring it back in at 9.30pm.
I have been lectured by him about being an inconsiderate neighbour by letting visitors park outside his house. That's stopped now he's bought an old banger with four flat tyres solely to reserve the space.
I find it highly amusing.
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FF re: old banger....
An acquaintance had a similar problem. Quick call to a scrap yard sorted the problem whilst the owners were at work. Not applauding his actions of course....!
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>> It's -2 out there. How long should I leave it before intervening and if so
>> how?
To do what - stop the barking, stop the dog from freezing to death (don't know if that's likely or not), or both?
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I know that I am lucky having a black lab that very rarely barks (its too much like effort to do that, much easier to just lie on the couch).
However I really detest yappy, barking dogs. My neighbour has a lahsa apso thing that yaps all day long. The times that I have quite seriously considered letting it escape to somewhere near a busy road.....
A yappy, barking dog can be a lot more annoying than a neighbour blaring music.
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>> To do what - stop the barking, stop the dog from freezing to death (don't
>> know if that's likely or not), or both?
Much as I don't like dogs I'd not want it's death from hypothermia on my conscience. OTOH i don't want sharp toothed ingrate nipping my ankles!!
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If you are worried about the dog:-
Is the dog inside? its fine - Leave it
Is the dog outside? as long as its not raining or snowing and the dog is not wet and left in the wind it will be fine.
If you don't care about the dog but are fed up with the barking, start a dog nuisance diary now.
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It's a shame that your first contact with the neighbours could be to complain rather to welcome them to the locality.
I think I'd put up with it for now, but contrive to meet them somewhere, preferably away from the house, to introduce yourself and do the welcoming bit. If you're really lucky, they might then ask if the dog is annoying you.
If that doesn't happen, you're still in a better position to introduce the topic yourself.
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>> It's a shame that your first contact with the neighbours could be to complain rather
>> to welcome them to the locality.
That's my viewpoint too. Although they're next door layout of road is such that their house is behind mine. I don't therefore see them in road or when 'doing' their front garden in way I see other side.
Also, houses rarely change hands. Of seven who's front doors I can see five have been here, like us, since places were built in 1998.
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>> Is the dog outside? as long as its not raining or snowing and the dog
>> is not wet and left in the wind it will be fine.
It was definitely outside and running round garden. No precipitation present or forecast and zero wind. Not a night to be human and caught outdoors though.
If it were in danger from cold I'd not have wanted it to suffer. Unlike friend's neutered show cocker bitch that greets me with wagging tail etc when I visit them I'm not sure it would welcome me to it's pack/territory.
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>> It was definitely outside and running round garden. No precipitation present or forecast and zero
>> wind. Not a night to be human and caught outdoors though.
As long as its not a very short coat breed with a thin skin, dogs are quite hardy, specially the smaller breeds - a dogs internals tend to run cooler than human ones. If it gets wet then it will lose heat through the fur and windchill will of course make it worse. They also lose heat through belly and pads on feet so it could find a nice pile of dry leaves or something to lay on. Most dogs will happily live in an outside unheated kennel. (well not "happy" - but comfortable)
>> them I'm not sure it would welcome me to it's pack/territory.
It probably wouldn't. Even if its freezing and you had a hot water bottle in your hand, if its one of the smaller yappy snappy breeds it will be even more yappy and snappy if you invade its territory.
Not much you can do about that without some time, effort and socialising, none of which you have time to do if its an emergency situation. You would just have to grab it by the scruff of its neck, give it a shake and show it who is boss and stick it somewhere safe.
Funnily enough if you bundled it into your house right away - it would go completely submissive and quiet.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 19 Jan 15 at 20:45
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Thanks Z, that's what I'd have suspected.
How much do breeds and individual animals, differ?
When kids were young they went to a minder down by Bugbrooke Mill who had a 'Heinz 57' type dog known as Jaffa. About 20 of the varieties were probably Collie. He was fine with kids.
He was no problem to me either. I treated him as I did other dogs I visit regulalry. Looked straight at him, spoke calmly but firmly and greeted him with pats/strokes (but alert in case he snapped).
The postie OTOH was scared stiff of him and, given the growling/barking, I'm not surprised.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 19 Jan 15 at 21:03
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>> How much do breeds and individual animals, differ?
Hugely. Breed wise from soft as a mouse to aggressive. The breed standards classify the temperament from "gentle" to "protective"
Within those breeds the dogs vary as much as well. For example I know one Belgian Shepard (malinois) - dogs favoured by paramilitary police forces for their bravery and aggressiveness that seems to think its a Labrador.
Fifi mk1 was the softest most timid dog you could imagine, scared of ducklings absolutely no confidence. But on one occasion a DHL driver knocked at the door, I open it, with fifi hiding behind my legs. There at the door was the blackest black person I had ever seen, with very very white eyes. He looks at Fifi, Fifi peers nervously round my legs, tail down - head down, at him, and the DHL guys eye open really wide and he starts to back nervously down the drive.
Thats was all it needed, suddenly we have Fifi the brave! Head UP, tail in the air, bared teeth, deep confident growls confidently making steady ground round my legs, out the door and up the drive after the DHL man.
Meeting dogs for the first time? Don't invade their space, stand confidently, make reassuring noises, let them come to you and offer the back of your hand, not extending it too far in front of you knee. Too much eye contact can make a nervous unsure dog snap. And its the nervous ones you need to watch.
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>> There at the door was the blackest black person I had ever seen
That's weird!!!!
My black lab is also the most timid etc etc , never growl at anyone coming down the driveway.
Only once in my life have I seen it snarling at someone and making as if "to go for them".
That was when a family of black people walked past the end of the driveway on the pavement. Never came near the house or any indication that they were but he went tearing down the drive barking away and I really thought he was going for them. It scared them enough that the parents both grabbed one of the kids each and lifted them up into their arms.
Of course I was very apologetic etc but I had never seen that from him before and never have I seen it since.
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>> Is the dog outside? as long as its not raining or snowing and the dog
>> is not wet and left in the wind it will be fine.
Perhaps he doesn't want the dog to be fine. He just wants it to shut up. Now, whether it shuts up because it's tired, or it's gone indoors, or it's dead, I don't suppose he cares. I know that I wouldn't.
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>> I know that I wouldn't.
Hopefully it will choke on your wedding tackle.
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>> Perhaps he doesn't want the dog to be fine. He just wants it to shut
>> up. Now, whether it shuts up because it's tired, or it's gone indoors, or it's
>> dead, I don't suppose he cares. I know that I wouldn't.
Although not a dog fan I was actually concerned for it. Suspected (a) it was not meant to be outside (failed means for it to enter/leave house?) and/or (b) owners late home due traffic or public transport upset,.
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Update:
A car arrived around 20:15 and dog has now stopped yapping. Suspect dog flap or whatever failed and left it stranded.
Still be interested in continuing debate though, particularly view of Zero the dog whisperer.
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This calls for the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. With choir. "O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy."
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>> Update:
>>
>> A car arrived around 20:15 and dog has now stopped yapping.
Pity it wasn't a van. You could have cycled along side it and called the dog owner a muppet for leaving his dog out in the cold :)
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>> Pity it wasn't a van. You could have cycled along side it and called the
>> dog owner a muppet for leaving his dog out in the cold :)
T I T :-P
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No idea what the end result was, but I was responsible for the first logged bite of a dog. And after the event, others came forward and said he'd bitten them or kids in their care! So should have been put to sleep long ago.
At a Scout Association campsite, where dogs are banned, the warden, had a dog. Said mutt was stealing food from scouts - and yes, he was adequately fed. I was alerted by one of them (I was an assistant at the camp) and began shooing the dog away. I'm very firm with this sort of thing and most animals understand me - I know not to show fear, and how to look a bigger threat.
Dog was retreating, and suddenly turned and went for my knee! What happened next though definitely was not expected by the dog. I was furious, and chased it all the way home and was restrained by others from going in and giving it a good kicking. When accused by the warden of frightening his dog I said if I ever saw it again near kids, I'd kill it (don't know how mind you). We didn't see any more of the dog.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Mon 19 Jan 15 at 22:37
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>> look a bigger threat.
>>
>> went for my knee!
One invariably follows the other.
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Now you have the perfect excuse to listen to the voice of reason Bromp!
Just pop round today and introduce yourself pleasantly.
Say you were a bit worried they had had an accident or otherwise delayed last night and the dog was left out, and if that should happen again is there anything you could do to help?
Always best to start off offering help and then get tough later if the message doesn't get across.
Pat
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My first reaction was to suggest that you sought professional advice, maybe the CAB or something, and then I .......................
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Next time you are concerned for the,welfare of the dog, call the RSPCA.
I have a theory that most pet dogs are more or less neglected, left alone all day, overfed, or given no exercise. Those are the ones I can't see the point of.
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>> Next time you are concerned for the,welfare of the dog, call the RSPCA.
I was under the impression that the RSPCA had all sorts of special powers, including breaking into properties and so on.
But I had a poke about the webs the other day and came away with the updated impression that not only do they not have any powers over the average Joe, and can only enter premises with a police officer and all that, but they have been taken to task at high levels - as in Governmental - because of their wilful attempts to give that scary impression, including a wearing a uniform that "looks" like a police force.
www.spectator.co.uk/features/8835631/off-the-leash/
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There are some people in the RSPCA who care for animals. There are quite a few who like the uniform.
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>> >> Next time you are concerned for the,welfare of the dog, call the RSPCA.
>>
>>
>> I was under the impression that the RSPCA had all sorts of special powers, including
>> breaking into properties and so on.
The only people who have powers to willy nilly knock down your doors is HM Customs and Excise.
Everyone else needs a court order/warrant/just cause
>> been taken to task at high levels
The way the RSPCA has become, not least thinking they are a police force / corporate body / law makers - has made them, in my book, undeserving of charitable status.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 20 Jan 15 at 09:18
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>> The only people who have powers to willy nilly knock down your doors is HM
>> Customs and Excise.
>>
>> Everyone else needs a court order/warrant/just cause
>>
The problem is defining 'just cause'. There's a huge number of people outside HMRC who have the right to enter your house without a warrant or court order. Local authorities, that home of the terminally inept or incompetent (joke...) had 15,000 people authorised to enter, and that was in 2009!!
www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/BargingIn.pdf
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>> www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/BargingIn.pdf
To say that report is misleading would be an understatement of humungous proportions!
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Oh I don't doubt it, but there are enough with the powers, and a level of incompetence in local authorities, that better control of their use would be desirable!
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The RSPCA has made itself some very powerful enemies in parliament, the media and the 'establishment' generally. The reason is that it has done what various police services have failed to do and instigated prosecutions under the act banning hunting with dogs.
The spectator article is, I suspect, part of the response.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 20 Jan 15 at 09:25
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>> The RSPCA has made itself some very powerful enemies in parliament, the media and the
>> 'establishment' generally. The reason is that it has done what various police services have failed
>> to do and instigated prosecutions under the act banning hunting with dogs.
If you mean it is a charity that has wasted millions in public donations on pointless prosecutions that are doomed to fail to try and prove a political point then you are right.
Me, I would remove their charitable status till they get back doing the job the public want them to do.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 20 Jan 15 at 10:06
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Zero is so right about the RSPCA.
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Smiley I know,but he's so right. They are another overfunded jumped up bunch of ace holes. Over egoed, self important twerps. If it's difficult put it to 'Sleep'.
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Finally seen the beast. In fact there are two of them - dachshunds.
Still hear them occasionally but nothing like the incident mentioned above.
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Nothing more vociferous than a short German.
Last edited by: MD on Tue 24 Feb 15 at 13:01
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My short German only becomes vociferous over five thousand rpm. He's quite a smoothy.
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As for the RSPCA, my donations go to the Cinnamon Trust
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I've just looked at them LL. I had never heard of them before. Looks like very worthwhile work to me and I'll have another 'Butchers' when I get this infernal roof price off of my desk.
Thanks.
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The Retired Greyhound Trust is a worthy cause, I think.
If I was to have a dog, I think I'd look there - my daughter has a 3 yr. old greyhound who has never raced. Nice calm dog who spends, like me, a lot of time asleep!
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Tia-rescue.org is a local ( to me ) charity. Primarily Greyhounds & Lurchers. Two friends of mine, one very elderly, have taken in retired greyhounds. Lovely docile animals, not my cup of Darjeeling, but nice dispositions.
Plenty of small charities out there if you look, who primarily rely on volunteers and small donations. I looked because I'm just rewriting my will!!
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I still quite like the Bob Marley :0)
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>>I looked because I'm just rewriting my will!!
I'll let you know my details!!!
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I found that blowing on a dog whistle caused a neighbour's dog to stop barking pro tem. It re-started when I stopped so that would not be a good solution, unless you could attach the whistle to an air pump. I tried an electronic supersonic gizmo. I could not hear it and it may have been too weak to cover the necessary distance, since it did not affect the dog. I rigged it to discourage Mrs Ambo's cat from invading my private space. That did not work but it got a violent reaction from a BT engineer, come to see about my Wi-Fi. He clutched his head in pain and retreated till I turned it off.
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I'll bequest you a nice comfy bed, leather studded collar and a bag of Gravy Bones. Satisfied?
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>> The Retired Greyhound Trust is a worthy cause, I think.
Another neighbour and a FB friend ex-colleague in Essex both have greyhounds via that source. Both say they're excellent pets.
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I lived a life not liking dogs (love cats), but I must admit that my daughter's rescued greyhound is an appealing animal.
He has made me change my mind a bit :-)
Having looked at the cost of pet insurance, ANY pet at our income level, sadly, is really a no-no.
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Any pet, Roger?
Might not be the cuddliest thing in the world, but at that price...and I bet you don't need insurance.
You could always throw one for next door's dog and still have four left over.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-EURYCANTHA-CALCARATA-NYMPHS-Giant-Spiny-Stick-insects-/400870168456?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d55b95788
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We had stick insects, more normal size than the specimens shown. For the education etc of the offspring. Who had to fetch the foliage? Well not the offspring... Minor tragedy when young insects escaped, and our cleaner assassinated them. Sold off at the local school fund-raising to prevent further grief.
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The Lad's recently acquired g/f reportedly has a Hamster living in a cage in her halls study/bedroom. Siberian Dwarf rather than the Golden sort that we had when I was a kid.
Cannot believe that would cost too much to insure.
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2 slices of toast should cure it ;-)
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There is definitely a market for cheap pets. My gran in her last years had a budgie, as grans do, and she used to chat to it and so on. It was some sort of company she seemed to like, and a splash of water and a packet of bird seed kept it going for a month.
I don't know what she herself ate, but she only lived to be 86, so I expect it was her famous daily chips fried in lard with egg, beans and sausages, followed by a bar of Old Jamaica. There may have been the odd inadvertent lacing of Trill, but it all goes down the same way.
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>> Cannot believe that would cost too much to insure.
Was in the vet once with the last dog, and a kid came out with a hamster. The bill for whatever it was - 15 quid. I thought then I could buy a bag of new ones for that.
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You'd have to buy only one of the opposite sex....the rest are free...!
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Gerbils caused the plague you know. It wasn't the rats.
I know it's true because they said so on Radio 2 this morning. Well, I think that's where I heard it.
gerbils and their fleas apparently. Rats got the blame. According to someone anyway.
Edit - here...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31588671
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 24 Feb 15 at 20:44
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I think you'll find that research was conducted by the Rats' PR Team...I laughed out loud when I heard this on the way to work this morning...GERBILES ffs !
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Chris Evans said it was true.
;-)
Edit - if you read the article above, they reckon it "giant" gerbils !
Ooooh Er !
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 24 Feb 15 at 20:50
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>> You'd have to buy only one of the opposite sex....the rest are free...!
Yes we got one that way when my niece's pair of males miraculously reproduced.
Vile thing it was - a Siberian Dwarf actually, as mentioned above by Bromp. I can see it now, teeth clamped around my son's finger with him whirling his arm around to try to dislodge it.
The good thing about the Siberian Dwarf ones is that they don't live nearly as long as the others.
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>> The good thing about the Siberian Dwarf ones is that they don't live nearly as
>> long as the others.
Blimey. The various Goldens we had as kids rarely lasted beyond 30 months. And those were the ones that didn't escape and (presumably) die of starvation under the floorboards or in the wall cavities.
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Cats are cheap enough to keep. About a £1 a day should do it for food and you should be able to get an unwanted moggy for nothing. Wouldn't worry about insurance. The average moggy is a tough old thing and shouldn't cost much in vet bills.
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Tortoises (male spur thigh) are cheap to keep. No feeding for 3 months and after that ?
Dandelions or clover in the lawn plus the odd bit of salad or fruit- simples
Oh I forgot, if you treat em well they might last up to 100 years.
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The average moggy is a tough old thing and shouldn't cost much in
>> vet bills.
>>
Either you've got a particularly resilient cat or you've never owned one.
We have three, or more to the point Mrs HM is personal slave to them and I get to share their house. Their jabs, flea and worm treatments alone come to more than I spend on me bikes.
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My ex ex has a pampered cat ( don't go there!). Cheap enough to feed but recent vet bills are Eye watering. I think it is karma for the number of moles it brings home.
Tortoise do not add much to ones life quality, although they are cheapo 'pets'. I used to attend lectures in a professional capacity at Chester Zoo hosted by the British Chelonia Group & Tortoise Trust. Some cuttlefish for the beak, a few vitamin supplements and they are normally happy bunnies, in a manner of speaking.
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Our only adventure into the world of vermin...sorry, rodents...was a Russiam Hampstewer called Ruby. After a month or so , it's bottom fell out...it was trailing an inch long red thing behind it in it's cage.
The kids demanded it see a surgeon rather than me flushing it down the bog..so off we went. He pushed it's guts back up it's nipsy with a thermometer. It seemed alright until a week later and it happened again so it was taken back for the final solution...with much sobbing from the weans.
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>> My ex ex
Ex Ex ?
Does that mean you've taken up where you left off :-P
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Had a cat for 45 years but when the last one died last year didn't replace it. What I meant was cats don't get many medical problems, a lot less than dogs or humans. Sure you haveto pay fo vaccinations and flea treatments but in the overall scheme of things they are fairly cheap to keep and unless you keep droves of the things, within most people's budget
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We had a cat when I was about eight, and it lived until I was about nineteen or twenty I think. I don't know how old it was when we got it, but it was a kitten, so I guess under a year.
It went to the vet twice - once when it got into a fight and needed stitches, and once when it was unwell and had to be put down. I don't know how much that cost but I don't recall a fuss being made, and there would have been one as my mother hates cats, (and annoyingly for her ended up looking after it on her own for the last year or two.)
But this was all in the seventies, so life has changed. Whether it's changed for better or worse for cats or vets I'm sure I couldn't say.
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We had a cat in the late 70s/early 80s and vet fees wee cheap - it went for jeccies, and some other ailment that we had to give it pills for.
Pet insurance messed that up and presumably made small animal vets very wealthy.
My neighbour is a farm/large animal vet and must work 80 hours a week. If she's rich she hides it well. I expect she could have a much easier time with pampered poodles and moggies, but she probably couldn't deal with the owners.
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Vet charged £35 to put cat down. Did bury it in the garden myself though.
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Good age for a cat that, 45. Must've treated it well...
;-)
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>>and you should be able to get an unwanted moggy for nothing<<
Every time we re-home an old cat from either the RSPCA or a cat sanctuary we're told it's a minimum of £50 donation per cat before we can take them home.
This always seems a bit odd to me, although we always do it.
Taking on elderly cats mean they will inevitably need a vets attention at some point soon and there is no way any company will insure them at that age.
We always go bearing gifts of cat food, and goods for their fundraising but it makes no difference!
Pat
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>> Every time we re-home an old cat from either the RSPCA or a cat sanctuary
>> we're told it's a minimum of £50 donation per cat before we can take them
>> home.
>>
>> This always seems a bit odd to me, although we always do it.
It seems odd to me, but it was explained to me by someone in the dogs trust that its mostly done to break the "something for nothing" idea and give the animal some value. Its also a great vetting tool!
They also said its been known to be "waived" under the right circumstances - elderly animal needs a quiet inactive household to laze out its last days, meets pensioner - scenario is the main one.
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Are you calling me a pensioner????
Pat
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You don't get free cats, so no.
One thing really annoys me, the dogs trust and Battersea do it. They take a dog, see it lacks confidence, and therefore insist it has to go into a home that already has another good mannered dog as a confidence booster.
Thats complete rollox and prevents many dogs being quickly rehomed. Speed of rehoming is essential to prevent dogs getting kennel stressed.
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>> Cats are cheap enough to keep. About a £1 a day should do it for
>> food and you should be able to get an unwanted moggy for nothing. Wouldn't worry
>> about insurance. The average moggy is a tough old thing and shouldn't cost much in
>> vet bills.
£1 a day? Lidl biscuit cat food is £1 per box, and it lasts 2-3-4 weeks, depending on the weather and the seasonal supply of rats and mice.
The occasional wormer (that reminds me, must buy some) and the odd splosh of frontline, and there's a very happy cat. (Plus fish heads, fish skin, ham bones and whatever else he manages to scrounge by looking appealing. He goes wild for grouse.)
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You know Mapmaker, I'd really like to 'not like' you bearing in mind the clashes we've had but I just can't seem to manage it because you do like your cat:)
Don't go taking liberties though....that could soon change!
Pat
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Next Door's Dog. - BobbyG
