Just idle curiousity really, inspired by my packing a bag just now for a couple of nights away on a business trip.
I grabbed some clean jeans, a pair of heavy boots, a couple of T-shirts and a jumper and that was it done apart from some skiddies and socks. I'll chuck a parka, a scarf and some gloves in the car given the weather.
Years ago though, to satisfy the dress codes of the time, it'd have been suits, ties and formal shoes all topped off with a formal overcoat.
I'm a company director and I'll be meeting with a major supplier's senior management team for a fairly intense couple of days but no one will be dressed formally. In fact, I can date the last time I wore a suit to work with its associated neckwear to 1992 when I left the employ of an even then, within the ( fashion ) industry, rather old school profile company.
Sometimes, if only very occasionally, I wouldn't mind getting togged up but I'd stand out like a sore thumb if I did.
Of course you still do see people suited and booted and in my wife's working environment ( banking ) it's still fairly normal. Except on Fridays oddly enough when they can relax a bit.
Does your workplace ( if you are still in one ) still require formal dress codes or have your ties died so to speak?
In either or any event, do you favour or regret the move to casual wear in the workplace?
In my own case I no longer have a separate set of clothes for work and leisure. Handy enough at one level maybe.
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Workplace? I went to a funeral recently and I was the only one wearing a tie. Even the sons (about my age) of the deceased were in jeans.
Still, that was the first funeral I've been to, so my ideas all come from the telly.
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Is your trip UK or abroad Humph ?
.**********
By the nineties collar/tie and smart trousers were sufficient with a jacket hung up somewhere for emergencies. Possibly a suit if there was a planned meeting with members of the public, but if they turned up on spec they took me as they found. Called unexpectedly to see the Master of the Court of Protection on a dress down day I was far more bothered by my tee shirt and jeans than she was.
In my last post (2002-13) there was an unspoken expectation at start of a suit for the Quango's monthly meeting and a jacket if called in to see the Chair - a retired Cabinet Minister. Even that gradually went by the way and by time of final meeting most men were in shirtsleeves and some including the then Chair dispensed with ties too.
Rohans and a tee or long sleeve casual shirt were my norm in the office by time I left. Others similar but with jeans. I think you were expected to be a bit smarter if you had contact with Ministers though.
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>> Is your trip UK or abroad Humph ?
>>
>> .**********
Bloomin swear filter, I used a well know vernacular expression now replaced by words in italics. !!
First para was
Several of my CS jobs required me to be in court as either a clerk or representing my office. Early on suits were de-riguer. I got a telling off from a judge in Scunthorpe in 1978 for wearing a sports jacket in his court. My explanation that I'd bought a suit in time but it was delayed in John Collier's alterations dept didn't impress.
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My first employer used to insist on suits, and indeed only certain premium brands of them. They did in fairness give us a clothing allowance.
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When I started (early 70s) Rules were dark blue suit, white shirt, dark tie (a pattern upon which would raise an management eyebrow) black shoes, and dark socks. Hair would be short and beards frowned upon. Being the youngest there I of course strained the managements patience by liberally interpreting those guidelines.
Them "You are wearing platform shoes"
Me "They are black"
Them "You have flaired trousers! with Turn ups!!!! - Your jacket has wide lapels!"
Me "Its a Dark Blue suit"
One day "Your hair is too long - Sort it"
Next Day:
Them "your haired is permed in tight curls!"!!'
Me "Its short"
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Jan 15 at 17:36
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Curly perm, flares and a Capri?
Ok cool, it was the 70s I suppose...
Did your payroll number have 118 in it anywhere?
;-)
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>> Curly perm, flares and a Capri?
>>
>> Ok cool, it was the 70s I suppose...
>>
>> Did your payroll number have 118 in it anywhere?
>>
>> ;-)
No. I wasn't "Payroll" I was "Personnel" Before everyone become a "resource"
Ever driven a capri wearing three inch platforms? Interesting.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Jan 15 at 17:54
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For me (large 3 letter IT Organisation) dress code more defined by client site, banking and government at least suit, probably suit / tie if client meeting. General office wear smart casual, no jeans except Fridays.
Other profession still in ties seems to be teaching, both wife & daughter male colleagues are always in shirt & tie.
Doesn't make much difference to me, makes the 6:30 am decisions easier.
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Heh heh, well, my oh my god o'clock apparel decisions are now only tempered by "is it clean?"
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Mostly working from home, you might be surprised if you could see what I was wearing during some conference calls!! Going to the office (city bank) is suit but no tie, dress down on Fridays (some smarter than others!)
Call me old fashioned, I think wearing a suit is easier as it saves that decision about what to wear, and whether it's smart or high fashion enough.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 14 Jan 15 at 17:07
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Lot of truth in what you say Smokie, it's a bit like the case for school uniforms. Creates a level playing field maybe.
In my industry, even your casual wear is scrutinised and woe betide anyone wearing the "wrong" brands or whatever. Fortunately, I'm quite old and can get away with what may be regarded as the eccentricities of age !
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Shirt and tie for me at work, ironic really as my position is best described as customer-facing skilled operative rather than anything truly professional*. When you buy a new Rolls Royce, Aston Martin etc the salesman comes to your mansion to formally hand it over. I drive the truck with the car in :)
*I do have a Driver's CPC which says I'm a professional but, y'know.
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I used to wear a tie for work, but not a suit unless a particular occasion demanded it. Gave up ties before we had air con installed in the office, as summer temps were simply intolerable. When I wanted to start wearing one again in the winter I found the collars of all my shirts had shrunk in the wardrobe, so I decided not to bother.
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I read in a trade magazine, that one of the measurable coincidences of the economic downturn was an increase in the sales of business suits, albeit at a lower average price than pre-2008.
One theory being that in workplaces where not wearing one had previously been seen as rather maverick that was the last thing anyone wanted to be regarded as in difficult times.
Safety in conformity sort of thing. Dunno.
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I only possess one decent pair of "smart" trousers these days; down here in Wales these, a black tie and white shirt are de rigeur for funerals and that is about all the outfit gets used for. I concur with Alistair's theory that shirts shrink if not worn regularly.
In previous lives as a recruitment consultant and transport manager it was a two-piece suit or at the minimum collar and tie with sober trousers. Despite my dress standards being less formal these days, if I do have to wear a tie I wear it properly; and old habit drummed into me at grammar school in the 70's then the army. I detest seeing ties worn at half mast with the top shirt button undone, it completely removes the point of having the tie in the first place and makes the wearer look as though he should be in a public bar rather than an office.
My tie collection used to be rather decent, but was ruthlessly culled some years ago as it was obvious that they were just gathering dust. I still have several "cartoon" ties (Taz and Hagar the Horrible) which I'm rather fond of and cannot bring myself to bin.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Wed 14 Jan 15 at 17:49
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Tie one round the waist of your dungarees as a belt. It'll help stop cold air circulating in this weather !
;-)
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>> Tie one round the waist of your dungarees as a belt. It'll help stop cold
>> air circulating in this weather !
>>
>> ;-)
>>
No need. The advantage of dungarees is that they allow the wearing of a padded "lumberjack" shirt without the usual overflow which jeans would cause. :-)
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Self employed, so jeans and jumper plus warm jacket in the winter. Shorts, trainers and T shirt in the summer.
I own two ties for formal occasions, black for funerals and red for everything else.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Wed 14 Jan 15 at 17:51
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I spent the majority of my working life in education and rarely had to wear formal clothes. The consequence is that when I did, I felt fantastic and still do.
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>> Self employed, so jeans and jumper plus warm jacket in the winter. Shorts, trainers and
>> T shirt in the summer.
Shorts in the office were an issue. Even the knee length sort raised eyebrows.
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You must have been pulling them up too high. No one likes a wedgie.
I do still wear a tie to the first meeting with a new customer, only (usually) to find I'm the only one there that has and to abandon it after that. But I hate the look of plain suit with plain, pale shirt and no tie; it just looks as if something's been forgotten. So I try to build in some colour or contrast somewhere. I seldom even wear a suit, to be honest; I travel with a dark blue blazer (dark metal buttons, no brass!) that will work with a variety of lighter trousers for contrast and insurance. (Popping into a shop for a new pair of 36" legs because of one spilt coffee isn't really an option.)
Can't abide jeans in the office. People turn up in all sorts, and you can't always tell whether they're even entitled to be here. Favourite thief's trick is to use a muttered excuse about leaving a pass on a desk to follow someone through a secure door; the least we can do to frustrate them is to dress like we work here.
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>> Favourite thief's trick is to use
>> a muttered excuse about leaving a pass on a desk to follow someone through a
>> secure door; the least we can do to frustrate them is to dress like we
>> work here.
The answer to that in Govt Offices is supposed to be passes visible at all times, but for some reason it wasn't used at our building in Chancery Lane - vetoed by one of the high ups? . In practice since (a) security were pretty hot and (b) we all knew pretty well everyone entitled to be on our floor it wasn't really necessary.
Anybody not recognised was met with a polite 'Excuse me, can I just check who you are and what your doing here'. Mostly they were temps from another floor or contractors for the Landlord.
Amazing how ar sy some people got when challenged though.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 14 Jan 15 at 18:56
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>> Amazing how ar sy some people got when challenged though.
Not really. They know they're entitled to be there and being stupid don't expect to be questioned, having not taken in that there are different levels of security which have to be maintained. Temper tantrums could be reduced by giving everyone comprehensive information, but that's quite rare.
Chuck in the standard human-condition thing of pervasive guilt and a feeling of not deserving all your privileges, and you've got a threatened ignorant berk shouting idiotically into your face about nothing.
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>> Favourite thief's trick is to use
>> a muttered excuse about leaving a pass on a desk to follow someone through a
>> secure door; the least we can do to frustrate them is to dress like we
>> work here.
I "employed" an ethical hacker on one account and it was a real eye opener. One of the tools in his box was social engineering. Stuff like dumpster diving late at night to get information, using stuff found within (like an internal directory or .cc lists) to phone people in the organisation claiming to be "the helpdesk" and getting users ids and passwords. Secretly videoing people entering to see the common entry methods and highlight weaknesses. Printing fake passes on his printer at home, claiming they are "broken" if they wont open doors or turnstiles, entering via rear fire doors where people have left them open for a "smoke", tailgating
Once in, and physically attached to the internal network, with obtained passwords and user ids he was home and dry. He once used an office in a bank for a week, and when presenting his report he passed the CEO a copy his personnel file inc benefits and renumeration.
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Being in the luxury footwear huckstering trade Humph you probably have to fly the flag with snakeskin platform DMs or the like. Would that the rest of us had the chutzpah, or the bread!
My small, dainty-limbed middle daughter now wears towering platform-soled maroon suede stilettos ('Mummy's big clompy shoes') which make her bustling presence upstairs in the daytime especially painful, and enable her to stare you intimidatingly in the eye. If you're a retiring, bookish old fellow like me you have to retreat to the courtyard to scratch your fleas in the rain and wind.
I insist though that my own scruffy appearance is really faded elegance, the sort of thing most people are blind to poor dolts that they are. Time for a new second-hand suit jacket I think.
I can dress up if I have to and have lots of ties. Usually I wear the black one although I note that black ties are out of fashion at funerals for years past actually.
'Don't mourn! Celebrate!' In a way perhaps, up to a point. But when my friends die I somehow don't feel best pleased. I'm funny like that.
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Up to about 4 years ago when the old boss sold the company ties and smart trousers were compulsory wear in the office. Now we are owned by an American company and jeans and a company polo shirt are permitted which suits me fine !
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>> I can dress up if I have to and have lots of ties. Usually I
>> wear the black one although I note that black ties are out of fashion at
>> funerals for years past actually.
I'd noticed that too AC. Can be a minefield.
Sometimes the widow or family make a specific request for no black ties. Other times it's a question of carrying alternatives & raising a finger to the breeze (as it were) in the crem car park.
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I always wore a suit and tie in the office, even when I didn't need to. It.just kind of felt right.
Now, I don't have to think about it. Blue t-shirt, green trousers and green shirt. Black Magnum boots.
I last wore a tie in July last year for a wedding and before that September 2013 for a funeral. Ties feel odd now.
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Modern dress informality is more than welcome to me because I've always been like that. Well, not always. When young I was very conventional in attire, did my best to top it the toff. At a certain point though, on getting a bit more grown-up, I realised that doing that was an expensive, time-consuming business essentially for jerks, and more or less at the same time thought: Eff it, I'm not really and adman or back office marketeer, I'm a fuggininnelectual. Baled out of the city and West End on the spot and have been poor but honest ever since.
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I designed some publicity/marketing stuff for Mrs T's book about 20 years ago so I was invited to the launch. Everybody wanted a piece of her so it was a couple of hours before I could chat to her. She asked what I did and I told her I was designing press ads for her book. She laughed and said she hoped I would have a lot more luck than she had with the press. Then she looked me up and down and said 'by the way, you'll have a lot more success with your career if you look smart and stop wearing jeans".
I do wonder about that from time to time but obviously nobody gives a crap what a designer wears, they're only interested in your portfolio. And your price.
But more than anything, I always wonder why she never asked me why I was so obviously plastered.
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>>>>
>> But more than anything, I always wonder why she never asked me why I was
>> so obviously plastered.
>>
Living with Dennis she thought that was normal.
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>> I always wonder why she never asked me why I was so obviously plastered.
Almost certainly because she was too BBD.
I have a strangely appealing image of the Lady staring transfixed at the bulge in your faded Levis while you drooled over her fresh lip-gloss, 'little feet' and surprisingly not-bad ankles.
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>> I can dress up if I have to and have lots of ties. Usually I
>> wear the black one although I note that black ties are out of fashion at
>> funerals for years past actually.
>>
Not round here they ain't; Asda in Wales even sell a ready-packaged white shirt complete with black tie for such purpose. Failure to observe the dress code can earn you some withering stares from older mourners.
The Welsh do seem to like putting on a good funeral; when they're reported in the local papers, the bearers are all named, it being considered rather gauche to have the deceased pushed in on a trolley by the funeral attendants. It's all very 1950's, very respectful and none the worse for it either.
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>> I drive the truck with the car in :)
>>
"In", not on, I love it.
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>> "In", not on, I love it.
It doesn't look particularly like a car transporter, just an ordinary slightly used plain curtainside truck. Until I drop the rear suspension, open up the back and fold the ramps out.
It's the perfect tool for the job, when the value of its contents can exceed that of most artics you don't want to shout about it with fancy graphics and logos.
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As I am now retired normal wear is smart casual.
Still ocasonally get invited to formal occasions and the morning suit got half a dozen outings last year including a visit to Buckingham Palace .........
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Do you get on the tour cheaper if you wear a smart suit?
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>> Does your workplace ( if you are still in one ) still require formal dress
>> codes or have your ties died so to speak?
Definitely informal - lots of jeans/t-shirts, with a fair number of long shorts in the summer. We're nearly all engineers (2 female) with no customers as such, so it's all very relaxed. I think you could tell from looking at us that no one feels any pressure to be 'fashionable' :)
>> In either or any event, do you favour or regret the move to casual wear
>> in the workplace?
It's great - commute includes a 1.2 mile walk/jog between home and local station, which is fine in (cheap) Rohans and Karrimor shoe/boots, but wouldn't be much fun in suit & tie. Could get changed at the office of course but nice not to have to.
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So I'm just back from the gym, glowing and dripping, but if I worked where Blurry does I wouldn't need to bother with that tiresome shower?
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Nope. Well I didn't anyway when I went through a phase of doing a 4-ish mile run from the station at Bath to the office :)
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>> Does your workplace ( if you are still in one ) still require formal dress codes or have your ties died so to speak?
My job requires working on many client locations.
At present, I am working for a very large multinational company (UK) where I am wearing jeans :-) Tie? What is that? I think below CxO level, no one wears tie here (this company is in FTSE 10 list). Even many CEOs don't wear ties.
In private sector (as I never worked in public sector) wearing tie is only prevalent in financial services industry.
More and more organizations are encouraging wearing casual dress on Fridays and smart casuals on other days.
A tie serves no purpose (IMHO) and going out of fashion (especially for younger generation).
PS: I still wear ties during interviews but I guess that would become out of fashion too.
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Managers and backroom people here wear what they like, we have logoed shirts and work boots for sales staff and delivery people. If I have to meet the public they know I'm important as the only one not in uniform - a bit like consultants being the ones not in labcoats.
I used to work in jobs where smart suits counted, but the British have a very accutely tuned sense of assessing one's relatiove importance by general manner and voice. I've never felt underdressed in any situation in recent times, even though habitually wearing faded crumpled trousers and an old pullover.
In the old days I might have felt the need to wear a suit when going to see the bank manager or someone official. Now I don't need to care.
I'd wear a sober suit and a black tie at a funeral though.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Thu 15 Jan 15 at 09:50
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I don't know what its like in the rest of society, but an east end funeral is a place to reignite old wounds, throw petrol onto the fire of old family feuds, gossip about, scold, belittle or run down other "branches" of the family, comment upon, speculate and postulate evil theories (hopefully to be a divisive spark at the next funeral) why xxxx is not there.
None of this can be done successfully or with any authority and gravitas while wearing Jeans. Has to be Suit & Black Tie
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Ah, it's not just a Welsh tradition then? The scheming, feuding and gossip I mean not the black tie. ;-)
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No need to wait until the next funeral. An East End wedding serves much the same purpose. Same suit but different tie of course.
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I still wear a tailor made suit and shirt every day for work with good formal shoes but rarely wear a tie now.
Before my sojourn in Hong Kong I often wore a tie and off the shelf suits and shirts but got spoiled by good quality affordable tailoring. The de facto business dress in the finance sector there was not to ordinarily wear a tie, it was too hot and humid.
In Australia many of my colleagues and my customer do wear a tie so I do so from time to time when it's not too hot. A suit is kinda expected, I notice when working with mobile app developers that they favour an expensive tailored jacket and shirt with expensive jeans and formal shoes, I find it amusing.
When not at work, I wear shorts and a t-shirt unless it's really cold (under 20C) when I'll consider putting on jeans.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Thu 15 Jan 15 at 09:57
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We're old fashioned here. Everybody is in a suit with a tie. Five days a week. We're in the West End, and I in my twelve minute walk from Oxford Circus in the mornings often I see nobody else in a suit, let alone a tie.
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>> We're old fashioned here. Everybody is in a suit with a tie. Five days a
>> week. We're in the West End, and I in my twelve minute walk from Oxford
>> Circus in the mornings often I see nobody else in a suit, let alone a
>> tie.
>>
When I first worked in London exactly the same could be said of men in bowlers carrying brollies. Rare, but not so rare as to raise a laugh. But a frock coat and a top hat would by then have been purely theatrical.
Funny how the trend seems to be always in one direction. As presumably cave men did none of this stuff, at some point dress must have been getting more formal, not less.
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I'll sometimes wear a suit to work - it's not required or expected, and not many do. Certainly no one does as the norm. But sometimes it's just what I feel like wearing. And I do like a well fitting suit :-) I'm extremely unlikely to ever wear a tie to work though...
In my non expert opinion the increase in the average weight of people is countered by the decline in the wearing of suits - much easier to wear some loose fitting slacks ;-)
In fact, prompted by this, I'm wearing one today. Black Paul Smith two button single breasted and a pink CT slim fit shirt with a cut-away colour and cuff links. Probably one more button undone than necessary ;-) (my COO is a Kiwi and the casualness is rubbing off!) But yesterday was jeans. Never chinos though...
Edited to add that I'll alswo wear a suit out of work on occasion as well, so I don't really have work and non work clothes either!
Last edited by: PeterS on Thu 15 Jan 15 at 11:15
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>> In fact, prompted by this, I'm wearing one today. Black Paul Smith two button single
>> breasted and a pink CT slim fit shirt with a cut-away colour and cuff links.
>> Probably one more button undone than necessary ;-) (my COO is a Kiwi and the
>> casualness is rubbing off!) But yesterday was jeans. Never chinos though...
Is it just me?
Or is this all getting a bit Gok Wan?
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They're worse than a bunch of women, Duncan:)
Pat
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>> Is it just me?
>>
>> Or is this all getting a bit Gok Wan?
>>
How very dare you! Yesterday was jeans, a checked shirt, rigger boots and a high viz coat - I was at a power station :-)
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What was the rest of the band wearing?
};---)
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>> What was the rest of the band wearing?
>> };---)
Don't leave our resident matelot out of this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw&list=RDInBXu-iY7cw
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That's pretty much as I imagine ON :-)
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>> Yesterday was jeans, a checked shirt, rigger boots and a high viz coat
Now!
Why did I immediately think of "I'm a lumberjack and I'm alright"?
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>> >> Yesterday was jeans, a checked shirt, rigger boots and a high viz coat
>>
>> Now!
>>
>> Why did I immediately think of "I'm a lumberjack and I'm alright"?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08&index=1&list=RDAO43p2Wqc08
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>>
>> Does your workplace ( if you are still in one ) still require formal dress
>> codes or have your ties died so to speak?
>>
>> In either or any event, do you favour or regret the move to casual wear
>> in the workplace?
>>
>> In my own case I no longer have a separate set of clothes for work
>> and leisure. Handy enough at one level maybe.
>>
Thankfully, in 35 years of electronics/telecoms design I've never worked for an employer/client that's been overly fussed about dress code - there are still some in the industry. I only wear a tie for funerals and job interviews. For sure I favour the change, an idiot in a nice suit is still an idiot.
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Much as I dislike wearing a suit and tie, I lament their passing.
If, like me, you are forever visiting different companies then it is always difficult to judge the appropriate dress in the early days.
Suits were a great equaliser.
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I'm in the Aerospace Industry and it has become quite a bit more relaxed over the past 10 years. Thinking about it there are only one or two who will wear a tie on a regular basis in my office, and both are approaching retirement
Judging visits to suppliers can be difficult to judge though as Mark has already pointed out.
My major supplier has various facilities, but when I visit its either in their head office, or one of their manufacturing facilities - both in France. The Paris guys are usually suited, but even the senior management in the manufacturing facility are casual in the extreme - led from the plant manager down
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We stopped wearing suits at work a long time ago - over 10 years.
I like wearing a suit at work. It made you feel like you were at work if you know what I mean.
I now work from home a lot. I could go to office but I can be more productive at home. I preferred it when when project were in one place and happened to be in a suit. Now project teams are all over.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 15 Jan 15 at 23:27
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>> Suits were a great equaliser.
In a way, but only when everyone had the same sort of suits. In a place like London as the sixties advanced all sorts of possibilities began to be possible in the clothes department. I don't mean beads and velvet flares (although, shudder, them too). Not many people could afford Savile Row/Cork St. or had the confidence to go to the East End for whistles, but you could get quite sharp gear, shoes as well as suits, off-the-shelf stuff tailored a bit to measure, from places like Cecil Gee... sharp shoes available too until the early seventies and the Gulliver's Travels shoe era, what rubbish they were. But those black chisel-toed all-leather Italian-style Shaftesbury Ave pampooties with embossed snakeskin pattern... still miss those. They passed muster in Ronnie Scott's and in Gate basement blues dances, as did the increasingly frayed and threadbare Cecil Gee whistle... goddam cheap schmutter you betcha... sigh.
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>> the increasingly frayed and threadbare Cecil Gee whistle... goddam cheap schmutter you betcha... sigh.
If you are a suit-wearer you need several suits. That one decent suit from Cecil Gee got frayed because it did for the City and West End as well as the clubs and places.
Dry cleaning doesn't get things clean. Machine-washable is the way to go. American suits were well ahead of anything you could get here in the fifties. But there's no substitute with any garments for not wearing the same thing every day, if you want things to last. I am hopeless in this area.
The writer William Burroughs wore glamourless, colourless, respectable mid-Western suits and a fedora hat at all times, as he had when a hipster in forties and fifties America. 'El Hombre Invisible', they called him in Mexico. When first in London he lived in a very FU hotel in Lillie Road, and would meet people like me in the Venice coffee bar just off Earl's Court Road. He pronounced Venice 'Venus'. He liked me because although I wasn't queer, I had read and appreciated his writings, knew his history and used to get weed for him from the East End taking of course an agreed cut...
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Very laid back where we are. One of the managers wears a tie now and again. He has very dubious taste though. Light tan winkle picker type shoes the other day - with black trousers. Good grief.
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I cannot help but think of the old Stanly Holloway monologue......
Brahn boots...
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>> I cannot help but think of the old Stanly Holloway monologue......
>>
>> Brahn boots...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcCich7Z4Q
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None of my business what anyone chooses to wear of course but by way of an observation, if an occasion or environment calls for formality, I feel it's best to do it properly just as if it alternatively calls for casual dress codes then that too can and should be done correctly.
What I don't like to see are the lip service versions, what some might call "smart casual". That can go very wrong. Shirt and tie and dress trousers with an anorak or something being the worst of all choices.
If you're going to be smart, then be smart, if you're going to be casual, then do that, and at all costs avoid anything which qualifies as sportswear unless you are engaged in the relevant sport.
Or just do what you want I suppose, it's a free country.
;-)
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No ties or suits anywhere in Sweden*. In a society where everyone is equal (although some are clearly more equal than others) it makes no difference, and I don't even notice it any more.
The teller at the bank covered in tattoos and goth stuff doesn't even seem to register.
The exception being game shooting, that follows closely the British tradition - smart tweed, shirt, and sometimes a tie. I usually wear a pheasant tie with country shirt. But I notice baseball caps are starting to be more common now, as well as cammo and pump action shotguns.
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>> No ties or suits anywhere in Sweden*.
Why the asterisk after 'Sweden'?
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* see the last paragraph (that I forgot to mark with an asterisk!)
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I went to a conference the other week. The dress code was 'business casual'. What is that, I wondered, so after some deliberation I went in a tweed sports coat, pair of trousers, brown brogues and open-necked shirt. ('Hedge fund uniform' though they generally wear jeans.)
1. The people who were leading the conference were all in suits and ties. The people there touting for business likewise.
2. Half the attendees were in suits and ties, most of the other half were in suits without ties.
And there were the poor chumps who had followed the instructions left looking like the poor relations.
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>..as well as cammo and pump action shotguns.
You wouldn't get anywhere near a pheasant or grouse shoot here with anything other than a 'quality' side-by-side.
At a partridge shoot you can get away with an over and under, maybe even an auto if you're a bit frail, but cammo or pump action never - even on beaters day.
Pump actions are very much frowned upon even on clay shoots.
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Pump actions are more popular here because theycan be used for roe deer and wild boar. Although for wild boar you must use a slug (with or without a rifled barrel). If an angry boar is heading your way, the ability to quickly land a couple of 12 bore slugs is very desireable.
Camo is popular because most types of hunting use it, and game shooting is such a minor activity here.
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Shooting a deer with a shotgun is illegal in the UK.
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It's legal in the UK, although with some conditions.
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>> It's legal in the UK, although with some conditions.
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It's illegal in the UK, although with some exceptions.
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>> Shooting a deer with a shotgun is illegal in the UK.
I did it once about 30 years ago. But the cartridge was large buckshot, SSG, and it was a clean shot through the head and neck. After the concussion the deer was nowhere to be seen, flat out in the long grass, still twitching but dead.
The illegal bit was that the deer was just over the fence in someone else's field. Only the fence and a dip in the ground enabled me to get within 20 or 30 yards of the poor animal. It knew something was amiss too and was pricking its ears and peering around. But it didn't see me in time and I was downwind too.
I felt very guilty and have never done it again. Barbecued venison and kudos are nice though.
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>Although for wild boar you must use a slug (with or without a rifled barrel).
The solid shotgun ammunition I'm familiar with is the breneka.
I fired about half a dozen rounds when we lived overseas. The projectile itself is rifled so it can be used in smooth bore shotguns. It does have a harsh recoil though.
The South African Defense Force used to use pump action shotguns loaded with alternate rounds of breneka and No.7 or 8 cartridges for house to house and vehicle assaults. The breneka were intended to put a big hole in any door or wall and the No.7 to subdue anyone inside who was still willing to fight.
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>> The breneka were intended to put a big hole in any door or wall and the No.7 to subdue anyone inside who was still willing to fight.
'Sorry Captain... got the pump sequence wrong way round, peppered the front door but it was open anyway, but unfortunately blasted a big hole in the householder's girlfriend... fortunes of war eh?'
Tchah!
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Tie died? - Crankcase
