A man is suspected of murder. Some other men abuse women.
And?
And I'm not allowed to call you a racist.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 27 Nov 14 at 21:22
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"A man is suspected of murder. Some other men abuse women.
And?
And I'm not allowed to call you a racist"
I guess this gives some insight into the logic of a diversity-trained, brain-washed, public-sector employee. It's OK to dislike British criminals but, if you express a dislike for foreign criminals, then you are a racist.
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>> It's OK to dislike British criminals but, if you express a dislike for foreign criminals,
>> then you are a racist.
Ah but when you highlight only foreign or effnick criminals, thats Racism. And the OP did exactly that. He was try to make a racially motivated point.
You can't cover this one up with the cry racism wolf blanket.
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>> Ah but when you highlight only foreign or effnick criminals, thats Racism. And the OP
>> did exactly that. He was try to make a racially motivated point.
Which was exactly my point and it's not isolated, there's a pattern of similar posts by the OP.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 09:13
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>> Yes the ruddy Welsh, send em back I say.
Not sure if John Allen was Welsh or English but certainly not furrin:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-30099592
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'Suspect detained by Police at 18.00'. And about 10 minutes earlier a car driven at high speed being chased by 6 Police cars almost hit Mrs BB as she drove near the Knoll roundabout near Leatherhead.
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>> 'Suspect detained by Police at 18.00'.
In Oxshott, apparently.
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It's only news in the public domain, it seems to upset some of you. Call me what you like, I care not a jot. If you like living amongst filthy, thieving,don't give a toss for anyone else a-oles OF WHATEVER COLOUR, then carry on. I moved away from the gloom almost thirty years ago cos I saw it coming. It is quite amusing the puritanical views often expressed here. I talk to numerous middle class law abiding tax paying people here in North Devon who have moved here from 'away'. They cite all manner of reasons for their move and it is quite laughable the reasons that they give. Of course when I mention the 'B' word their reaction says it all.
A head teacher friend of mine left her post and teaching completely for several reasons, mostly because of the political correctness. One reason that she always mentions is the BANNING of the word Blackboard, yes banning. White board was perfectly acceptable though. Explain please??
My country and I can't say Ba Ba Black Sheep. You're having a laugh.
It is through you 'sit on the fence and whinge quietly types', that we are in the mess we're in.
You puritanical folk need to seriously get a grip cos we've surrendered this country without firing a shot and for sure, within my Grandson's lifetime there WILL BE Muslim control.
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.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 10:27
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Oh dear, here we go again.
Pat
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MD's maths is a bit unsound.
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It's more than his maths that is a bit unsound. Sad to see that at least six members share his views.
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>> It's more than his maths that is a bit unsound. Sad to see that at least six members share his views.
Perhaps, but it's a mistake to comment specifically on someone's attitudes, which they will generally try to deny. It's the unsound maths that stands out: where is this Muslim majority expected to come from?
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The thumb doesn't necessarily express agreement, just that someone found it helpful. It's certainly helped me understand what MD thinks - although none of the thumbs is mine.
Fortunately, reports of dishonest and incompetent builders are almost impossible to find on the web; otherwise we could start a thread of links to such stories and invite our readers to infer that all builders are the same.
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Theoretically you are correct but somehow I have a feeling that the thumbs are and endorsement of his views. I hope I am not right.
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>> I hope I am not right.
So do I G but I fear optimism is trumping reality.
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>> It's more than his maths that is a bit unsound. Sad to see that at
>> least six members share his views.
>>
EIGHTEEN actually.
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>>Oh dear, here we go again.
Which troubles you most Pat? Those views, or the fact that it might get responses?
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Here we go again? The thing is Pat there are plenty of people here in the UK who feel like the op.And it is coming to the surface now look at Farage following.
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Yet again it appears that the moderators are quite comfortable with bigotry, but are deeply worried about accusations of bigotry.
I wonder why.
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>>Yet again it appears that the moderators are quite comfortable with bigotry, but are deeply worried about accusations of bigotry.<<
That's what troubles me most Mark.
Your reaction when you finally read the post....and the resulting flack and insults thrown at all and sundry once again.
All because you have a gripe about being asked to tone it down a bit in public.
Your innuendos have been endless since that happened some weeks ago but you have never missed a chance to make them ....while all the time pretending to comply with the site owners request.
Childish and absolutely uncalled for.
We all get a b*llocking now and again but have the sense to know when it was well deserved and keep schtum.
I think you and a certain Mr Mitchell have quite a bit in common.
Pat
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You do talk some dribble Pat.
Clearly the response to bigotry is a far bigger issue for you than the bigotry itself.
You might want to think about that. Do you truly think rudeness is worse than ignorance, prejudice and bigotry?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 16:07
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No, I don't need to think about it at all.
Your response has clarified my opinion perfectly.
Pat
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When I look in the mirror, I'd rather see a rude man looking back than a bigot.
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>>.and the resulting flack and insults thrown at all and sundry once again.
Where?
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>> We all get a b*llocking now and again but have the sense to know when
>> it was well deserved and keep schtum.
Pat, you don't post carefully selected links, with inflammatory remarks that are based purely on race do you?
There was no balance, attempt to promote a discussion or inform, merely to express an unpleasant bigoted opinion.
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I absolutely agree with you Z, and I was certainly not one of those giving a thumbs up to the post.
Pat
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Perhaps not.
Supposedly then bigotry and prejudice doesn't prompt you to post.
But imagined (in this case) rudeness does?
Why?
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The same reason as you do ....because I can.
Pat
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Fair enough. But its not the sort of self-motivation I would be comfortable with.
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PAt,
With respect that's not really what happened. Mark, like AC and me, has a gripe about the overt racism, bigotry and Xenophobia/Islamophobia displayed by some posters.
If those posts are 'frownied' or even reported with text summarising the offence nothing happens. Yet when Mark 'called' on of the offenders (possibly the wrong one but that's another question) he was told it was not acceptable to call another forummer a racist. That, even though one, IIRC openly admits his racism
I'm uncomfortable with that as clearly is Mark and, IIRC, Alanovich said he was 'considering his position'. He's still posting in HJ but I've not seen him here for some time.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 16:24
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I accept that *some* people may well be uncomfortable with that but different people have a different perception of racism and bigotry.
I some of the cases you mention I agree, in some of them I don't.
The racism card is pulled too easily just as some females pull the equality and feminist one, and I've seen that happen on here where people have been accused of being racist.
The one thing I'm sure of, is I'm sick of all the underlying currents about it.
Pat
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Do the six people who gave a green thumb to MD's post have the courage to admit who they are?
If they then went a step further and could explain which bit in particular they enjoyed, that would be helpful.
But if you;re too ashamed to admit it, I do understand. So would I be in your shoes.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 14:38
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>> Do the six people who gave a green thumb to MD's post have the courage
>> to admit who they are?
I could probably name four of them - Not allowed to tho.
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>>I could probably name four of them
One of who presumably followed up with frownies for me.
I wonder if they realise that a frowny from a bigot means I actually hit the target?
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" the six people"
Oh blimey, there's nine now. Are you all trying deliberately to wind up NoFM? You are very naughty boys and girls!
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>> " the six people"
>>
>> Oh blimey, there's nine now. Are you all trying deliberately to wind up NoFM? You
>> are very naughty boys and girls!
Tempting I know.
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>>Oh blimey, there's nine now
Do you know, I genuinely don't get it.
There's loads of reasons to dislike people. Loads of reasons to think that some people are bad, good or indifferent.
But I genuinely doesn't understand this prejudice and bigotry depending on race, religion or nationality*.
Obviously I don't like it, but there's lots of things I don't like. This is one of the few I do not understand. It makes no sense.
It seems to be an opinion arrived at through ignorance. Which ought to be counter to every instinct that people have.
However, even though I don't understand it, I do despise it as a point of view. And I despise those who hold it. I revile those who hold that point of view but hide behind others, because they truly are the most despicable.
I should keep out of these conversations. We'd probably all be happier. But doesn't it seem fundamentally wrong, possibly even supportive, to leave such bigotry unchallenged?
*or any other prejudice.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 16:30
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>> >>Oh blimey, there's nine now
>>
>> Do you know, I genuinely don't get it.
Get this. Stick a green thumb on it and you do two things.
1/ you devalue the original view express
2/ You devalue those who thumbed it because they supported the view expressed.
Three things, you do three things
3/ You devalue the whole idea of thumbs and frowns.
Go on stick a thumb on it.
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>>3/ You devalue the whole idea of thumbs and frowns.
Is it working yet?
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I want it and I want it now.
Always been your trouble.
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One of many, I'm afraid, one of many.
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"You puritanical folk need to seriously get a grip cos we've surrendered this country without firing a shot and for sure, within my Grandson's lifetime there WILL BE Muslim control."
I've got my foil hat on so it will not happen.
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"within my Grandson's lifetime there WILL BE Muslim control"
Hasn't it started in Tower Hamlets?
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>> "within my Grandson's lifetime there WILL BE Muslim control"
>>
>> Hasn't it started in Tower Hamlets?
If you mean there is a non white mayor elected then
John Richard Archer (8 June 1863 – 14 July 1932) was a British race and political activist. In November 1906, he was among the first people of African descent to be elected to public office in Britain as a councillor in Battersea, and in 1913, the first black mayor in London.
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>> Hasn't it started in Tower Hamlets?
Even if, for purpose of this argument and no other, I were to accept that proposition (and I don't) it's doesn't begin to demonstrate progress to a UK under 'Muslim Control'.
There have been ghettoes in London and one or two other big cities, for centuries. Whether Huguenot, Jewish or Asian they've never been precursors to a wider takeover.
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"Even if, for purpose of this argument "
But you must realise that if a religion were introduced into a FPTP political system, then mayhem could potentially result. Isn't this the mechanism by which the muslim brotherhood came to be elected in Egypt?
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>> "Even if, for purpose of this argument "
>>
>> But you must realise that if a religion were introduced into a FPTP political system,
>> then mayhem could potentially result. Isn't this the mechanism by which the muslim brotherhood came
>> to be elected in Egypt?
No not really, electoral fraud and intimidation helped a lot. And in some wards in the UK, there have been cases of the latter, one in my neighbouring borough, and currently it does seem to be in areas of mixed ethnicity, mostly because they are the most easily intimidated or manipulated. Electoral fraud however is nothing new, happening long before immigration was even a word in the dictionary.
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Now you're just sounding loopy, HW. You may not have noticed but Egypt is a predominantly Muslim country and has been so for centuries. You'd have to be very selective to draw a parallel between that and liberal, secular Britain.
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"Now you're just sounding loopy,"
Aaaaargh - give me strength, Will! I said "The mechanism". Do I have to spell it out for you? On second thoughts, I can't be bothered.
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>> But you must realise that if a religion were introduced into a FPTP political system,
>> then mayhem could potentially result. Isn't this the mechanism by which the muslim brotherhood came
>> to be elected in Egypt?
This is the UK not Egypt. For all Nasser and his two successors tried to produce a secular state it didn't happen.
The nearest we've had to an Islamic party is probably Respect though it's figurehead is a white Scot - Galloway. His election on firstly Bethnal Green and then Bradford was based on plugging into local people's dissatisfaction with Labour and a narrow cohort of their own people's undue influence in local Labour parties.
Respect might get a couple more in Inner London or Manchester. No more.
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I see someone's given a frown to that leftist organisation, the BBC. I'm inclined to agree, they are a rum bunch.
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This morning, Mr Cameron articulated the need for restraint on immigration ……
Does this make him:
A) A racist or
B) A realist
Vote now ……..
Remember, it's nearly the weekend, so not too much spleen-venting……..
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Too little too late for me.
Does that make me a racist or a bigot?
Pat
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>> Too little too late for me.
>>
>> Does that make me a racist or a bigot?
>>
>> Pat
Pat, why is immigration a problem?
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Immigration per se is not a problem.
The quantities are.
We had a local 93 year old woman sent home from Hinchingbrooke hospital at 9pm at night in a minibus with only nightclothes on this week. The driver was given her old address and her family had arranged to collect her the following morning at 10am but her bed was needed.
In this area we have an awful lot of immigrants and they are charming, hard working and do a grand job for our local low paying employers BUT, our services are groaning under the strain.
It's not uncommon to go into a canteen and find a coffee machine with all the selections written in Polish.
The health and safety notices the same and not an English one to be found.
Our schools are bulging and so many have no English so special teachers are having to be employed to teach them a new language first.
I have so much respect for the EU people as I work closely with them and love their work/family ethic BUT even I have to see that this can't go on.
Pat
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>> Immigration per se is not a problem.
>>
>> The quantities are.
>>
>> We had a local 93 year old woman sent home from Hinchingbrooke hospital at 9pm
>> at night in a minibus with only nightclothes on this week. The driver was given
>> her old address and her family had arranged to collect her the following morning at
>> 10am but her bed was needed.
>>
>> In this area we have an awful lot of immigrants and they are charming, hard
>> working and do a grand job for our local low paying employers BUT, our services
>> are groaning under the strain.
>>
The services round you way were really groaning when all the east end londoners were shipped out there. Are they 'immigrants? I am aware that you have a lot of poles that have moved into your area, buts thats because thats where the work is.
>> It's not uncommon to go into a canteen and find a coffee machine with all
>> the selections written in Polish.
>>
>> The health and safety notices the same and not an English one to be found.
No idea why, Nearly every pole working over here has a good grasp of English, 90% of EU workers here also speak and write English, they come here because they do and they know they can get a job because they do. The failure to put up English H&S info is an employers fault, not that of the immigrants.
>> Our schools are bulging and so many have no English so special teachers are having
>> to be employed to teach them a new language first.
They are not from the EU, we have complete control of migration of non EU migrants. Can stop them at any time.
>> I have so much respect for the EU people as I work closely with them
>> and love their work/family ethic BUT even I have to see that this can't go
>> on.
It can, and its whats making this country the only one in the EU thats growing. Your area has always been a migrants area, even if they are from other parts of the country.
The annoying thing is that the anti immigration brigade has managed to lump the EU free movement of labour with Muslims. The muslims migrated here did not come through that route but through our much heralded commonwealth.
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>>The annoying thing is that the anti immigration brigade has managed to lump the EU free movement of labour with Muslims. The muslims migrated here did not come through that route but through our much heralded commonwealth. <<
I knew I should have added I have no problem with muslims either!
Now here's a thing that bugs me.
My roots are in Leicester and some of my oldest and kindest friends are black (shock at Pat using that word).
I do happily call them black and they call me white, but now I feel pressure to call them something else when I'm talking about them to other people,but what?
I don't see them as black, I see them as loyal good friends when I look at them yet if I describe them as I'm used to doing, I run the risk of being called racist.
They find that hilarious.
Pat
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>> I don't see them as black, I see them as loyal good friends when I look at them yet if I describe them as I'm used to doing, I run the risk of being called racist.
Pat, are you really saying that you often come across people who will call you a racist for describing a black person as a black person? I wouldn't worry about them. They can only be idiots.
Just keep that trusty baseball bat you're always threatening me with about your person, and use it at will.
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>> I don't see them as black, I see them as loyal good friends when I
>> look at them yet if I describe them as I'm used to doing, I run
>> the risk of being called racist.
>>
>> They find that hilarious.
>>
>> Pat
The point is why do you find the need to label them as anything but "friends" do you automatically call your other friends "my white friends"?
My brother in law is black, second generation Windrush immigrant and therefore the kids are mixed race. But he is just referred to as "my brother in law" not "my black brother in law and the kids as just my nephews and nieces, (tho being in their teens that frequently becomes "little gits")
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>>why do you find the need to label them as anything but "friends" <<
Usually when I'm discussing the difficulties faced with my EU friends at work and relating tales of my past.......nothing sinister, however hard you try to make it seem like that!
Pat
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>> >>why do you find the need to label them as anything but "friends" <<
>>
>> Usually when I'm discussing the difficulties faced with my EU friends at work and relating
>> tales of my past.......nothing sinister, however hard you try to make it seem like that!
I am not trying to do anything "like that" and I don't see how you managed to read that into it.
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>>Does that make me a racist or a bigot?
Bigotry is a state of mind where a person strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.[1] Some examples include personal beliefs, race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, or other group characteristics.
Racism is a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
I don't know.
There are other options also. Such as; wrong, crowd following, irrational etc. etc. I shall be very interested to see how you answer Zero's question on what is wrong with immigration.
You know yourself I guess. Which would you say that you are? One of the above, or something else?
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>>Does this make him:
>>
>>A) A racist or
>>
>>B) A realist
He may be either, neither or both. Although I suspect he is neither, and just naively optimistic.
What he clearly does, as do *all* politicians, is pander to the views of those he would like to support him, whether those views are right or wrong.
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>> >>Does this make him:
>> >>A) A racist or
>> >>B) A realist
>> He may be either, neither or both.
He IS both, depending on the viewpoint of the person having that opinion.
Every person on this planet has a their own set of opinions, created by their upbringing, and things that they see (or think they see) as they live their lives.
One of those opinions happens to be how one views other people.
That means that different people will see Cameron as either A or B....
Racism is a very complex thing, which some try to make too simple.
I do not agree with causing distress or injury by use of differing views to others (of which extreme racism is one)
but I do respect the right of everyone to have differing opinions, as long as the opinion stays as that, and doesn't erupt into name calling, bulling or worse....
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>>He IS both, depending on the viewpoint of the person having that opinion.
No, he is a racist or he is not. The view point of the person having that opinion is not relevant.
>>Racism is a very complex thing,
No its not. How is it complex?
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>> >>He IS both, depending on the viewpoint of the person having that opinion.
>>
>> No, he is a racist or he is not. The view point of the person having that opinion is not relevant.
So, what exactly makes someone racist or not?
Others on this thread, have said of some things that have been classed as a racist comment , such as 'black coffee' where people who should be upset at such comments think its stupid...
All it takes is one person to take offence for something to become 'racist'
Now, that offence, is based on their opinion - so is that one persons opinion worth more than other peoples opinions?
>> >>Racism is a very complex thing,
>>
>> No its not. How is it complex?
Because, as above it is based on opinions.
Don't get me wrong, blatant racism IS WRONG... as is any form of bullying, either physical, or verbal means, exactly as some on here seem to enjoy.
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>> Remember, it's nearly the weekend, so not too much spleen-venting……..
Why do we need restraint on Imigration?
Is everyone being forced out of jobs? No - the jobless total is going down
Is the economy going down the pan? No
Are they fuelling inflation? No
The housing market? 60 years ago I was born into a victorian terraced house that homed three families.
So why?
Cameron thinks he has to do something, because UKIP has created an unwarranted public fear, that has spineless tories revolting, and his job could be out the window.
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>>Is everyone being forced out of jobs? No - the jobless total is going down
There is a view from the Equality and Human Rights Commission that a very large supply of cheap labour from Eastern Europe is depressing wages here.
www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/17/eastern-european-immigration-hits-wages
The CBI disagrees, so it's probably true:)
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/11187887/EU-migration-is-essential-for-a-healthy-economy-says-CBIs-John-Cridland.html
>>Is the economy going down the pan? No
Yes, but it isn't down to immigration.
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>> Yes, but it isn't down to immigration.
No.
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Interesting.
To say BLACK Friday is acceptable I presume? I guess it must be so because I have not heard a complaint about it, although I have to say I have been at work.
To say BLACK board is not OK.
Go figure.
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>> To say BLACK board is not OK.
Of course it's OK, what utter poppycock.
You're flogging a variety of dead horses MD, for the most deplorable reasons. You're just kidding, we know, but it's boring old carp to me and probably others here (try asking around).
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>> Interesting.
>>
>> To say BLACK Friday is acceptable I presume? I guess it must be so because
>> I have not heard a complaint about it, although I have to say I have
>> been at work.
>>
>> To say BLACK board is not OK.
>>
>> Go figure.
There seem possibly to have been zealous individuals, possibly in positions of power in London's educational bureaucracies post ILEA, who overplayed the negative connotations of the word black (black mark, black spot, blackballed). Further, they decided it (a) had a racial context and (b) applied to other uses of the word (coffee, board, sheep). I'd be interested to see any evidence that, if these examples really exist outside Snopes, but I'm prepared to accept that, egregiously, such things happened.
Now, in 2014, I don't believe any reputable equality body would prosribe blackboard. Neither has even one second of the ridiculously extensive coverage of 'black Friday' been about anything other than bargains and people fighting over them.
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>> Neither has even one second of the ridiculously extensive coverage of 'black Friday' been about anything other than bargains and people fighting over them.
Fair's fair though, a lot of them bargain fighters is black innit?
:o}
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 28 Nov 14 at 20:32
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"Fair's fair though, a lot of them bargain fighters is black innit? "
We saw the BBC news coverage last night and…….. er……….. what AC says, appears to be true.
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>> "Fair's fair though, a lot of them bargain fighters is black innit? "
>>
>> We saw the BBC news coverage last night and…….. er……….. what AC says, appears to
>> be true.
I saw a black kid and an oriental woman fighting over a tv with an muslim employee trying to keep the peace.
Make of that what you will.
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>> even one second of the ridiculously extensive coverage of 'black Friday' been about anything other
>> than bargains and people fighting over them.
Black Friday is a hideous sales con, suddenly imported from the states.
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>> Black Friday is a hideous sales con, suddenly imported from the states.
Yes, but we used to have an equivalent in the 'post-Christmas sales', long queues all night, dangerous scrums, serial handbagging and so on.
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Makes me wonder about these numpties. Mind you if you know where they are I suppose they are easier to avoid.
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>> I'd be interested to see any
>> evidence that, if these examples really exist outside Snopes, but I'm prepared to accept that,
>> egregiously, such things happened.
Just as well then... because in the mid 90's at South Harrow Police Station we were all informed that if we wanted a black coffee we had to ask for 'coffee without milk'... much to the amusement of the predominantly black canteen staff who thought it was amusing and ridiculous.
There are plenty of other examples of such Scheisse.
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>> There are plenty of other examples of such Scheisse.
>>
Another one was 'brainstorming' in a training context.
It had to be 'board blasting' in case you offended someone with a brain disorder.
I kid you not.
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>> Another one was 'brainstorming' in a training context.
>>
>> It had to be 'board blasting' in case you offended someone with a brain disorder.
>>
>> I kid you not.
The term brainstorm used as above may (apparently) cause genuine offence to some with psychiatric illness or Epilepsy (although spokespeople for the Epilepsy society say they're OK with it's use).
Such people, where their conditions are controlled, hold down normal jobs; it's not just about folks detained under section.
Is it really 'Schiess' to respect that?
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>> Is it really 'Schiess' to respect that?
>>
>>
You've answered your own question
The term brainstorm used as above may (apparently)
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>>spokespeople for the Epilepsy society say they're OK with it's use).
>>
Spokespeople for The Pedant Society say they are not OK with the misuse of "it's".
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>> The term brainstorm used as above may (apparently) cause genuine offence to some with psychiatric
>> illness or Epilepsy (although spokespeople for the Epilepsy society say they're OK with it's use).
>>
>> Such people, where their conditions are controlled, hold down normal jobs; it's not just about
>> folks detained under section.
>>
>> Is it really 'Schiess' to respect that?
>>
It is Schiess for people who have no connection to any psychiatric illness or epilepsy to take it upon themselves and lecture or hector other people on behalf of people who may be ill (and who themselves usually couldn't care less about an innocent usage of a word) for using a word in a training environment that no one of any right mind would consider was being disrespectful to anyone who was ill.
The fact that the Epilepsy Society has no issue with it says it all.
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>> The fact that the Epilepsy Society has no issue with it says it all.
Are the Epilepsy Society spokespeople for all forms of mental health issues?
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>> Are the Epilepsy Society spokespeople for all forms of mental health issues?
>>
Clearly not.
It is however a good indicator of rational thinking by people who realise there are more serious issues at stake than the inadvertent usage of a word.. or .. the unnecessary input from people (on behalf of others who usually do not seek it) of whom the common denominator is they have their own heads firmly up their backsides.
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>> The fact that the Epilepsy Society has no issue with it says it all.
I've no time for those taking unreasoned offence for others either. But what if people with mental illness - I'm personally aware of two bi-polar sufferers who held down CSjobs - objected?
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>> I've no time for those taking unreasoned offence for others either. But what if people
>> with mental illness - I'm personally aware of two bi-polar sufferers who held down CSjobs
>> - objected?
First of all...'what if'
Secondly.... why on earth would anyone object?
If you are in a training environment and someone wishes a group to put their heads together and come up with some ideas.. and calls it 'brainstorming' you know they are not taking the 'p' out of or being disrespectful to ill people.
Someone with bi-polar will have potentially considerably more difficulties in their lives than someone in a training unit using a word that may or may not offend someone especially sensitive.. and of which the originator didn't intend or imply it so.
The only reason this and other examples have ever been raised is because some colossal richard cranium has deemed it necessary to poke his/her oar into a subject matter that the actual people they think they are 'protecting' usually couldn't give two hoots about.
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>>
>> >> The fact that the Epilepsy Society has no issue with it says it all.
>>
>> I've no time for those taking unreasoned offence for others either. But what if people
>> with mental illness - I'm personally aware of two bi-polar sufferers who held down CSjobs
>> - objected?
I would say "your are being ridiculous and doing yourselves and your cause no favours at all"
At the end of the day tho, they wouldn't. Black people didn't object to the use of the word "Blackboard" any more than any of the mentally handicapped charities objected to the use of the word "brainstorming"
There is however sound basis in the idea of getting people to use and accept more enabling terms and not those with negative connotations. My use of the word / term "handicap" for example above is excessively negative.
Avoid passive, victim words. Use language that respects disabled people as active individuals with control over their own lives.
However the bleeding heart "i must have a cause" liberals who invent stuff like banning "brainstorming" never actually ask or engage with those they are seeking to protect and advance.
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>>
>> >> The fact that the Epilepsy Society has no issue with it says it all.
>>
>> I've no time for those taking unreasoned offence for others either. But what if people
>> with mental illness - I'm personally aware of two bi-polar sufferers who held down CSjobs
>> - objected?
On that basis almost anybody could be offended by almost anything.
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>> On that basis almost anybody could be offended by almost anything.
Absolutely, some people will take offence at anything.
I guess I'm intrigued by how this one has gained currency if it's just some Richard Head(s) deciding off their own bats that 'brainstorm' offends a sector of society. It's not as if it were just a Civil Service thing, it seems trainers in the private sector have moved that way too. My kids, in an ordinary LEA/Academy Comp, were given an alternative term.
Spread from over the pond?
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>> >> On that basis almost anybody could be offended by almost anything.
>>
>> Absolutely, some people will take offence at anything.
>>
>> I guess I'm intrigued by how this one has gained currency if it's just some
>> Richard Head(s) deciding off their own bats that 'brainstorm' offends a sector of society. It's
>> not as if it were just a Civil Service thing, it seems trainers in the
>> private sector have moved that way too.
Not a new observation, but the reason people in HR and training functions jump on the bandwagon is not because the think it's necessary, but because they fear somebody else objecting once the idea has circulated that it might be offensive.
In my old company we had "idea storming" for a while; I think the local authority has "thought showers".
Similarly with H&S. I once went down to the village hall on a weekday to mend something, and the OFSTED regulated playgroup was in session. They had a fairly serious debate about whether I could be let in, not having been CRB checked - even though I am known here and was the chairman of the hall committee at the time. They were just frightened that they might be breaking a rule, and somebody else would find out and complain.
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"Absolutely, some people will take offence at anything."
If 'brain-storm' offends some folks - why not 'heart-attack'? I've never associated 'brainstorm' with epilepsy ……….. and my daughter has epilepsy, so I know a bit about it.
I do get frustrated, though, when some words are misappropriated to mean something else e.g. 'marriage'.
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>> On that basis almost anybody could be offended by almost anything.
>
A better example you couldn't find, probably started by a couple of richard heads looking for something to do, spread amoungst other richard heads. Plenty of them about.
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>>To say BLACK Friday is acceptable I presume? ....................blah blah............
>>To say BLACK board is not OK.
I have to say you do a far better job of appearing ridiculous than I could ever hope to do for you.
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I wrote a long and very deep reply for this thread about 5.45 last night, because I was heartened by the way we were all able to have a sensible discussion.
It ended by saying that I would look forward to reading the replies at 3am today so please don't let it go to pot and have to be pulled by the mods.
.......as I was about to post it we had a power cut:(
The irony is that it was as black as your hat in here and after I had groped around to find a torch and candles, I decided it was fate and should be left unsaid!
Pat
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He is white and if found quilty should go to prison for the rest of his live.
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>> .......as I was about to post it we had a power cut:(
>>
>> Pat
That will teach you to pay your bills!
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Clearly you are not familiar with life in the Fens Duncan....they switched the Christmas lights on in March town centre and blacked out a 20 mile circle around it:)
See, I said we were groaning under the strain of all these immigrants;)
Pat
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>> Clearly you are not familiar with life in the Fens Duncan....they switched the Christmas lights
>> on in March town centre and blacked out a 20 mile circle around it:)
The locals burned the woman who turned them on as a Witch.
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>>
>> The locals burned the woman who turned them on as a Witch.
>>
Someone has given you a scowly for that!!
Oh dear, oh dear.
Is there an emoticon for "walks away shaking his head in disbelief"?
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>> Go figure.
I notice that faux-naïf posts from closet racists and far-right sympathisers often end with this repulsive American phrase. That alone would raise the hackles of a reasonable person whose hackles hadn't been raised already by their slimy 'opinions'. Yuck, and yuck.
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Are you all still asleep? Where are the 17 little constipated faces I so richly deserve?
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Looking for the cascara, AC.
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I bet you lot all wished you lived in Glasgow where the only issue is are you a proddy muslim or a catholic muslim !
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Or Edinburgh where it's acceptable to be almost anything or any combination of anything except of course a Weegie !
;-)
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Heard (only) a snippet on Radio 4 today that Lord Harries, former Bishop of Oxford, suggests that at the coronation of the next monarch, in Westminster Abbey, readings should include ones taken from the Koran.
Is this
a) a publicity stunt
b) a joke
c) appeasement
d) pandering
e) an insult to white anglo saxe-coburgs
f) inevitable
g) a sad state of affairs
h) something we should rejoicingly welcome
?
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>> Heard (only) a snippet on Radio 4 today that Lord Harries, former Bishop of Oxford,
>> suggests that at the coronation of the next monarch, in Westminster Abbey, readings should include
>> ones taken from the Koran.
The 'candidate King' wants to be not just Defender of the Faith but Defender of Faiths.
The next Coronation will be over 60 years after the last in which time UK and Commonwealth have changed hugely. In circs something very different from 1953 and including quotes from the Koran and from the Hindu texts too seems like something to welcome.
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>> >> Heard (only) a snippet on Radio 4 today that Lord Harries, former Bishop of
>> Oxford,
>> >> suggests that at the coronation of the next monarch, in Westminster Abbey, readings should
>> include
>> >> ones taken from the Koran.
>>
>> The 'candidate King' wants to be not just Defender of the Faith but Defender of
>> Faiths.
As head of a breakaway church he would be in fact the leader of heretics. Hardly the best person for defender of faiths.
It is, in all honesty, time that religious faith of any colour be removed from the monarchy. In fact, the idea that Charlie will be king leads me to believe its time the whole idea of monarchy be abolished.
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That's the thing about the heredity principle, you get the next in line. Having some kind of selection process would be no guarantee of getting a good one but it would guarantee getting one who wants to be head of state.
I prefer the current system. Charlie will be ok anyway.
My preference would be for a secular state that tolerates all tolerant religions; and for religion to be a personal thing not a state thing.
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>> a secular state that tolerates all tolerant religions;
Most religions are intolerant to some extent, with lists of things you should or shouldn't do. But really I agree with Manatee. The monarchy suits this country very well and it's ridiculous to think it should be abolished. The head of state is a figurehead, not an individual let alone one with any 'power'.
It always amuses me the way people airily propose revolutionary change, as if they were somehow going to be immune from its unpredictable knock-on effects. It's a great mistake to tinker with convoluted systems you don't understand.
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That's pretty much my approach AC. Neither the Monarchy nor the House of Lords would be around if we started with a lean sheet of paper.
OTOH both work well and seem to me to be in the 'if it ain't broken' category.
Even a wholly non-executive President as in Ireland would give a new level of complexity . Given much of the Monarchy's costs are keeping nationally significant buildings in good order I doubt there'd be any saving of cash either.
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>> >> . Given much of the Monarchy's costs are keeping nationally significant buildings in good order I doubt there'd be any saving of cash either.
>>
There would be no saving of cash.
The Royals bring in lots of money, by way of tourism etc.
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>> There would be no saving of cash.
>> The Royals bring in lots of money, by way of tourism etc.
>>
Indeed.
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It's well past time for the Church of England to be disestablished.
It always was a political device to boost the idea of the Divine Right of Kings, keep the lower classes in their subservience, in this life and to solve Henry VIII's marriage/procreation difficulties - the poxed-up old libertine.
The idea of bishops of the C of E having the right to sit in the Lords in today's world is simply untenable.
Mind, you the H.O.L. needs root and branch reform - there are over 700 of these people, completely unelected, largely ineffectual in moderating the Lower House and all able to draw £300 a day for just signing in.
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Look, we know you're a Rastafarian Roger. But there just isn't enough weed in the country to give every prelate a chillum and something to put in it. And they would have to be retrained. Setting up a Church of Rastafari would be a non-starter I'm afraid.
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Nope - (a) My hair ain't long enough, (b) the obligatory knitted multi-coloured woolly hat is so infra dig, innit?
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(a) Grow some. It continues to grow even after you're dead.
(b) INFRA DIG? Rastaman wear a tam in the sacred colours of Rastafari man! Cha, someone go cut you to raaaaaasclaat!
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>>It continues to grow even after you're dead.
I think it's more to do with the skin shrivelling and desiccating that it gives the appearance of longer nails/hair on a corpse.
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>> it's more to do with the skin shrivelling and desiccating that it gives the appearance of longer nails/hair on a corpse.
I can't argue with you Lygonos... but isn't the chitin (or whatever) that hair and nails is made of a sort of plant, whose nutrients must continue to be available for a shortish time after death? The early millennia of animal evolution were pretty variable. Human beings aren't just one creature. They have essential colonies of symbiotic creatures (stomach and gut bacteria for example).
As I say, I can't argue with you, but I quite like the idea that we are very primitive at base and not as simple as people think.
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>> In fact, the idea that Charlie will be king leads me to believe its time the whole idea of monarchy be abolished.
>>
I'm for that, too, even without consideration of Charlie. I'd get rid of the House of Lords as well.
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That's right. You don't understand it, so it might as well go.
Naive, thuggish and incredibly stupid. Fortunately no one except other naive stupid people will listen.
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What happened to the last few posts after AC's?
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Long t hread and moddies in course of splitting it?
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There was definitely a post after AC's to the effect that the monarchy and the upper house were outdated and should be done away with. I made a reply that rejected because the post I replied to had disappeared.
Apologies all round to AC, who has previously been allowed to believe he was doolally.
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>> AC, who has previously been allowed to believe he was doolally.
Well thank you Manatee, but I certainly don't deserve an apology for anything.
I don't exactly believe I'm doolally, but the possibility often occurs to me. As it does to others no doubt. But that's life innit?
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>> There was definitely a post after AC's to the effect that the monarchy and the upper house were outdated and should be done away with.
All a bit confusing, but it looks, at the moment, as if I'm the only "stupid, naive" person on the forum who's allowed to express that opinion. :)
Last edited by: John Boy on Mon 1 Dec 14 at 19:34
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>> looks ... as if I'm the only "stupid, naive" person on the forum who's allowed to express that opinion. :)
Nonsense JB. You have several fellow-idiots.
:o}
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>> Nonsense JB. You have several fellow-idiots.
Where are they, when you need them?
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>> Where are they, when you need them?
I thought you had them, but perhaps after all you are the only one. Perhaps I've misjudged you and there aren't any. Tsk.
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There was definitely a post in terms suggested, or closer to a curse on all political etc houses. Furthermore I recall the poster as being madf.
While I'd probably disagree his diagnosis, at least iro The Lords whi IMHO do a damn good job, it was hardly offensive.
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No, not offensive at all unless you are a a prospective monarch, or a lord, and they are fair game.
I know it was there because my riposte went west as a consequence of its deletion.
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>> I know it was there because my riposte went west a
A weak thrust then.
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>> A weak thrust then.
As it's not here, it was obviously a corker.
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>> There was definitely a post in terms suggested, or closer to a curse on all
>> political etc houses. Furthermore I recall the poster as being madf.
>>
>> While I'd probably disagree his diagnosis, at least iro The Lords whi IMHO do a
>> damn good job, it was hardly offensive.
>>
IIRC I said that the HOL and Monarchy were outdated but the alternative of a paid second chamber and a President was less appealing. And then added that given a few MPs had been jailed for perjury and theft, it was rich to want to pay for another bunch of people who would also lie and steal.
I did reference the parenthood of a few. Un-named.
Nothing was libellous: no-one was singled out. As for being thieving liars, that's not opinion , it's fact.
Last edited by: madf on Tue 2 Dec 14 at 06:15
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And so it continues again.... - Bromptonaut
