Why are we, in the UK allowing a Latvian with a previous conviction in his own country for murder, to enter and live here?
How come the driver of the motorhome who found an illegal immigrant hiding in the vehicle on their return to the UK doesn't get find £2000 , when a HGV driver gets this fine PER illegal immigrant found?
I'm sure as the day goes on the answers will become clear....
Pat
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1. Weak politicians.
2. Double standards, see answer 1.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 19 Sep 14 at 08:11
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>> Why are we, in the UK allowing a Latvian with a previous conviction in his
>> own country for murder, to enter and live here?
>>
>> How come the driver of the motorhome who found an illegal immigrant hiding in the
>> vehicle on their return to the UK doesn't get find £2000 , when a HGV
>> driver gets this fine PER illegal immigrant found?
>>
>> I'm sure as the day goes on the answers will become clear....
>>
>> Pat
Easy
1/ Its the fault of the EU
2/ Hardworking Overworked Underpaid salt of the earth lorry drivers (blessed be they) are persecuted relentlessly, oppressed, abused - victimised by the EU.
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Sarcasm doesn't come up to it's usual standard this morning Z?
Pat
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>> Sarcasm doesn't come up to it's usual standard this morning Z?
>>
>> Pat
merely providing you with the acceptable answers you want to hear. We aim to please
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 19 Sep 14 at 08:36
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"Sarcasm doesn't come up to it's usual standard"
Remember, Pat - many a true word's spoken in jest! ;-)
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1. Don't know
2. I am guessing that unless they hammer low paid drivers who regularly do this route with huge fines, then there is a chance they may be tempted to accept payment in return for smuggling in folks.
Genuine question, are these typically curtain liners that the immigrants get in through or fixed sided vehicles? Surely there must be a way to secure and alarm fixed container type vehicles?
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>> 1. Don't know
>> 2. I am guessing that unless they hammer low paid drivers who regularly do this
>> route with huge fines, then there is a chance they may be tempted to accept
>> payment in return for smuggling in folks.
>>
>> Genuine question, are these typically curtain liners that the immigrants get in through or fixed
>> sided vehicles? Surely there must be a way to secure and alarm fixed container type
>> vehicles?
Curtain siders are the easiest to wriggle into without leaving too many tell tale signs on the outside.
The gangs are getting good tho, they can make seals, pick or replace padlocks, all sorts of tricks.
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1. Because Latvia is a member of the EU, and citizens of EU countries (includng the UK) are entitled to free movement within the union. Provided he served his sentence, this extents to a convicted criminal too (including UK ones).
2a. Because lorry drivers are professionals of whom a higher standard of awareness and competence* is expected than the common motorist.
2b. If a common motorist were proven to be knowingly aiding illegal immigrants to enter the country, they too can be prosecuted for it.
* Of course, that's why illegal immimgrants have started targeting common motorist's vehicles - because the professional drivers are aware of them and competent at ensuring they don't get aboard their vehicles.
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>> * Of course, that's why illegal immimgrants have started targeting common motorist's vehicles - because
>> the professional drivers are aware of them and competent at ensuring they don't get aboard
>> their vehicles.
And of course it much harder to hide under a caravan or in the back of a car, both of course now happening so TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the onus was switch to private motorists as well, with fines.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 19 Sep 14 at 09:37
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>> 1. Because Latvia is a member of the EU, and citizens of EU countries (includng
>> the UK) are entitled to free movement within the union.
Another good reason to leave the EU
>> 2a. Because lorry drivers are professionals of whom a higher standard of awareness and competence*
>> is expected than the common motorist.
Awareness is a two way thing and needs some support from the French to do their 'professional' duty too.
tinyurl.com/qfuj4l7
>> 2b. If a common motorist were proven to be knowingly aiding illegal immigrants to enter
>> the country, they too can be prosecuted for it.
A lorry driver doesn't have be 'knowingly aware' that's the problem.
As soon as a lorry is held up in any queue entering the docks at Calais, while it's moving slowly they come out of hedges alongside the road and cut the padlocks of the doors with bolt cutters.
If the scanner above was used correctly it would find them but it results in a fine of £2000 for each one who manages to climb in the back.
Pat
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If the vehicle itself can't be protected perhaps some other form of discouragement could be tried. For example vehicles could pass over an array of nozzles to give them a good under-body wash of chilled water, with some unpleasant additive.
What does your professional association have to say about the problem, Pat?
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There was quite a good programme on the dreadful Channel 5 about this yesterday. I can imagine it is pretty stressful for truck drivers. I think I'll stick to taking a bike across...if they can get into a BMW pannier they deserve to settle here. Zero's response reminds me of a cartoon doing the rounds about multiple sarcasms..!
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The FTA thoughts are in the link above Ambo and the RHA feel the same.
Pat
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>> >> 1. Because Latvia is a member of the EU, and citizens of EU countries
>> (includng
>> >> the UK) are entitled to free movement within the union.
>>
>> Another good reason to leave the EU
Being in or out of the EU didn't stop us sending Garry Glitter on a round the world kiddy fiddling fest did it.
Have you considered, without the EU you would be without a job? Didn't think so doesn't fit with the "blame the EU for everything" manifesto does it.
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"without the EU you would be without a job"
If I was a bureaucrat, I might, but it doesn't seem to bother the Norwegians (unemployment rate 3.5%) or the Swiss (3.1%). Ours is 6.4%, even after all the massaging.
Last edited by: J Bonington Jagworth on Fri 19 Sep 14 at 14:47
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>> Norwegians (unemployment rate 3.5%) or the Swiss (3.1%). Ours is 6.4%, even after all the massaging.
Something to do with our traditional adversarial system of industrial relations? In the post-war era sensible countries like Denmark and Sweden developed more rational systems that allowed work and wages to be distributed more evenly than they ever have been here.
We have neither European rationality nor long-toothed American selfishness and greed. We are in a tinpot category of our own.
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>> "without the EU you would be without a job"
>>
>> If I was a bureaucrat, I might,
Pat has a job implementing one of her hated EU regulations.
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>>Have you considered, without the EU you would be without a job?<<
The amount of work I've done this year, considering I'm supposed to be retired, that would be a welcome relief:)
Pat
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"kiddy fiddling fest"
Or as I call it, the catholic church.
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"hiding in the vehicle"
Wasn't it under the vehicle? I can see a difference.
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Apparently there was a documentary on telly last night looking at Calais's prospective immigrants and those who make it to our shores. Missed it but it's reviewed by Lucy Mangan in today's G:
www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/sep/19/illegal-immigrants-proud-tv-review
She's moved on from the diary stuff she wrote several years ago including an account of her own deflowerment.
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As mentioned above...it was typically Channel 5.
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>> "hiding in the vehicle"
>>
>> Wasn't it under the vehicle? I can see a difference.
There was also a case of hiding behind the back seats, in a Fiat Puto I believe.
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>> There was also a case of hiding behind the back seats, in a Fiat Puto
>> I believe.
There are apparently warnings about leaving caravans/motorhomes etc unattended at some of the Supermarkets in the Calais area. No sign of lurking stowaways when I parked mine at Cite d'Europe but I'd imagine stores nearer Calais centre and ferryport might have a problem.
What was noticeable were men walking in the road on the dual carriageway spur from A16 to the port. Apparently they hope to slow vehicles for long enough to leap aboard trucks.
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Vote UKIP. Problem 90% solved.
;-)
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Regarding the Latvian Immigration Customs.He would have had a passport not that difficult to check up on his history in Latvia.
He murdered his wife and served his time.Not much customs could have done.Just a sick so and so who got here.
The Campervan saga don't know.I felt sorry for the young kid he must have been desperate.
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I am amazed that someone can gain legal entry to this country with a conviction for murder. Obviously I am very naive about EU legislation. I wonder if this chap would have been allowed into the USA or Australia, for his holidays? And I don't care whether he has served his time in the slammer or not, the fewer convicted crims we allow into this country the better.
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>>I am amazed that someone can gain legal entry to this country with a conviction for murder.
We'd only know of his conviction if we had visa type controls at borders. Even then he could lie.
The tough fact is we like rapid and easy movement of people and goods with and within mainland Europe for ourselves. Having had it for donkeys years the sheer volume of people and goods moving around make the sort of checks Oz or US can impose utterly impractical.
Provided you've got a passport etc and are not on a stop list for terrorism, child neglect or whatever you can cross borders on production of passport/ID.
If we don't have free movement we ALL have to jump through hoops.
Muck or nettles.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 20 Sep 14 at 00:40
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>> The Campervan saga don't know.I felt sorry for the young kid he must have been desperate.
Yes, imagine that, clinging to the underside of something inches from the road. You would have to be beyond desperate.
Cats come and ask you to take them, and you have to say no, sorry... It's awful.
Like old-time US hoboes riding the rods... that was no joke. Very fine movie, Emperor of the North, the truly great actor Ernest Borgnine as a goods train guard dedicated to foiling the hoboes by ruthless, murderous means... but they - Lee Marvin I seem to remember - get him in the end. Fabulous flick.
Doubtless there are networks that let people through for money. Lucrative but probably risky. I bet Pat knows a bit about that. Perhaps one or two others here.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 20 Sep 14 at 00:09
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>>Yes, imagine that, clinging to the underside of something inches from the road
He must have been watching de Niro's "Cape Fear" movie but his civilised treatment here was a beacon in an increasingly callous world.
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My biker partner, Tony, was a chartered loss adjuster dealing in marine cases. He told me that curtainsiders were easy to access without any evidence afterwards.
A long ratchet strap was thrown over the trailer, in the middle roughly and the strap tightened, bringing the roof down six inches or so. Then the side rope could be released from the hooks and the illegals boarded. The strap was released with the ropes back on the hooks and the roof went back up leaving everything as normal. Of course, the strap chucker had to stay behind but that was probably his full time job.
He also says that many loads are just dumped after illegals have come in on them because they freely use the trailer as a toilet during the trip. I think he said Tesco wouldn't accept anything that had stowaways in....no doubt there are many more firms the same.
I can't understand why hauliers use padlocks which can be removed with bolt cutters. I have a Kryptonite van lock on the garage...the one shaped like tin of tuna or an ice- hockey puck . It has it's own shielded fixing which is bolted to doors with coach bolts through drilled steel plates on the inside. At about £40, a small price to pay for virtually impregnable security.
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Getting on (and off) curtain siders clearly lets a good number in. Northants, a county with no coast and no international airport has a significant number of illegals. Apparently Northampton (Rothersthorpe) services are as far as you can get from Dover before driver needs a tacho break.
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Passed this mob this morning, never even got close to Northampton
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-29308967
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My ex boss reported seeing a similar scene on the not quite M20 bit between Dover and Folkestone
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Early Morning Musings - Old Navy
